• Immerse vs. Submerse

    From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 16 21:36:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Most of the sources I looked at explain the difference between 'immerse'
    and 'submerse' as the metaphorical use of the former in contrast to
    physical meaning of the latter (covered in liquid).

    Hence:

    " 'Immerse' is often used to describe a deep mental engagement or
    absorption in something, such as becoming completely focused on a task
    or subject. On the other hand, 'submerse' typically refers to the
    physical act of going under water or putting something beneath the
    surface of a liquid. "

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in water).
    We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by immersion in water -
    or is it submersion?

    Likewise, in cookery we soak the dry beans by immersing them in water overnight. (Never seen 'submerse' in this context.)

    <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=immerse%2Csubmerse%2Cimmersible%2Csubmersible&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>


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  • From Jeff Barnett@jbb@notatt.com to alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 16 23:30:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 8/16/2026 1:36 PM, occam wrote:
    Most of the sources I looked at explain the difference between 'immerse'
    and 'submerse' as the metaphorical use of the former in contrast to
    physical meaning of the latter (covered in liquid).

    Hence:

    " 'Immerse' is often used to describe a deep mental engagement or
    absorption in something, such as becoming completely focused on a task
    or subject. On the other hand, 'submerse' typically refers to the
    physical act of going under water or putting something beneath the
    surface of a liquid. "

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in water).
    We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by immersion in water -
    or is it submersion?

    Likewise, in cookery we soak the dry beans by immersing them in water overnight. (Never seen 'submerse' in this context.)

    <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=immerse%2Csubmerse%2Cimmersible%2Csubmersible&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>
    Just a guess: An agent "Immerses" itself in whatever while "submerse" is
    the agent putting something in whatever.

    I don't think the rules for this are strict.
    --
    Jeff Barnett


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  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Mon Aug 17 08:24:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:36:35 +0200, occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in water).
    We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by immersion in water -
    or is it submersion?

    Some Baptists insist that it should be "submersion".

    The methods of Christian baptism were generally referred to as
    aspersion, affusion and immersion, until the Baptists thought that
    there wasn't a sufficient distinction between affusion and immersion,
    and therefore added submersion.

    The Church of England was initially quite explicit in its
    instructions, that, in the case of small children, the minister was to
    dip first the left side, then the right side, then the front, in the
    water. I think that counted as immersion, but not submersion.

    Later the CofE was not quite so excplicit and simply instructed the
    minister to "dip it in the water discretely and warily" but if the
    parents and godparents certified that the child was not able to bear
    ity, it was permissible to pour water on it.

    I suppose it was the insufficiency of that in the eyes of the Baptists
    that led them to substitute "submersion" for "immersion".

    I'm not sufficiently clued up in Greek to know which is the better
    translation of "baptizo".
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Mon Aug 17 08:27:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 17/08/2026 08:24, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:36:35 +0200, occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in water).
    We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by immersion in water -
    or is it submersion?

    Some Baptists insist that it should be "submersion".

    The methods of Christian baptism were generally referred to as
    aspersion, affusion and immersion, until the Baptists thought that
    there wasn't a sufficient distinction between affusion and immersion,
    and therefore added submersion.

    The Church of England was initially quite explicit in its
    instructions, that, in the case of small children, the minister was to
    dip first the left side, then the right side, then the front, in the
    water. I think that counted as immersion, but not submersion.

    Later the CofE was not quite so excplicit and simply instructed the
    minister to "dip it in the water discretely and warily" but if the
    parents and godparents certified that the child was not able to bear
    ity, it was permissible to pour water on it.

    I suppose it was the insufficiency of that in the eyes of the Baptists
    that led them to substitute "submersion" for "immersion".

    I'm not sufficiently clued up in Greek to know which is the better translation of "baptizo".

    That's Greek. Therefor a translation from the Hebrew.
    What does the Bible say? John the baptiser must've had a word for it.
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  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Mon Aug 17 17:09:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 17/08/26 16:27, occam wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 08:24, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:36:35 +0200, occam <occam@nowhere.nix>
    wrote:

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in
    water). We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by
    immersion in water - or is it submersion?

    Some Baptists insist that it should be "submersion".

    The methods of Christian baptism were generally referred to as
    aspersion, affusion and immersion, until the Baptists thought that
    there wasn't a sufficient distinction between affusion and
    immersion, and therefore added submersion.

    The Church of England was initially quite explicit in its
    instructions, that, in the case of small children, the minister was
    to dip first the left side, then the right side, then the front, in
    the water. I think that counted as immersion, but not submersion.

    Later the CofE was not quite so excplicit and simply instructed
    the minister to "dip it in the water discretely and warily" but if
    the parents and godparents certified that the child was not able to
    bear ity, it was permissible to pour water on it.

    I suppose it was the insufficiency of that in the eyes of the
    Baptists that led them to substitute "submersion" for "immersion".

    I'm not sufficiently clued up in Greek to know which is the better
    translation of "baptizo".

    That's Greek. Therefor a translation from the Hebrew. What does the
    Bible say? John the baptiser must've had a word for it.

    John was not a true Baptist. Instead of having a bathtub in a church, he
    used a river.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
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  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Mon Aug 17 09:53:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 17/08/2026 09:09, Peter Moylan wrote:
    On 17/08/26 16:27, occam wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 08:24, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:36:35 +0200, occam <occam@nowhere.nix>
    wrote:

    Yet, we have immersion heaters (electrical elements submerged in
    water). We also have (in some Christian sects) baptism by
    immersion in water - or is it submersion?

    Some Baptists insist that it should be "submersion".

    The methods of Christian baptism were generally referred to as
    aspersion, affusion and immersion, until the Baptists thought that
    there wasn't a sufficient distinction between affusion and
    immersion, and therefore added submersion.

    The Church of England was initially quite explicit in its
    instructions, that, in the case of small children, the minister was
    to dip first the left side, then the right side, then the front, in
    the water. I think that counted as immersion, but not submersion.

    Later the CofE was not quite so excplicit and simply instructed
    the minister to "dip it in the water discretely and warily" but if
    the parents and godparents certified that the child was not able to
    bear ity, it was permissible to pour water on it.

    I suppose it was the insufficiency of that in the eyes of the
    Baptists that led them to substitute "submersion" for "immersion".

    I'm not sufficiently clued up in Greek to know which is the better
    translation of "baptizo".

    That's Greek. Therefor a translation from the Hebrew. What does the
    Bible say? John the baptiser must've had a word for it.

    John was not a true Baptist. Instead of having a bathtub in a church, he
    used a river.


    <smile> That's why I used the word 'baptiser' rather than the clich|-
    'John the baptist'. This expression I gleaned from a Netflix series
    about Christ et al ('The Chosen'). A well-made series with a distinct
    Jewish perspective. They should know, they were there at the time.
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