• 'Ghillie' suits

    From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 10:51:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    I was watching video footage of Ukrainian forces engaging Russian
    positions in Donetsk when the voiceover mentioned 'Ghillie' suits - the camouflage suits soldiers wear in forests, woods to make them look like
    bushes.

    Yes, I'd seen 'ghillie' suits in films and hunting videos before, but
    had never heard the term before.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that it is of Gaelic origine.

    "The word "ghillie" is derived from the Scots Gaelic term "gille," which translates to "young man" or "servant." This term historically referred
    to individuals who assisted sportsmen in hunting and fishing,
    particularly in the Scottish Highlands. "

    My question (in order not to upset the traditionalists here) - Is
    'Ghillie' a relation of the French 'gilet' - a waistcoat?


    Buy your own Ghillie here: https://www.theghilliesuits.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 10:16:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh occam:

    I was watching video footage of Ukrainian forces engaging Russian
    positions in Donetsk when the voiceover mentioned 'Ghillie' suits - the camouflage suits soldiers wear in forests, woods to make them look like bushes.

    Yes, I'd seen 'ghillie' suits in films and hunting videos before, but
    had never heard the term before.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that it is of Gaelic origine.

    "The word "ghillie" is derived from the Scots Gaelic term "gille," which translates to "young man" or "servant." This term historically referred
    to individuals who assisted sportsmen in hunting and fishing,
    particularly in the Scottish Highlands. "

    My question (in order not to upset the traditionalists here) - Is
    'Ghillie' a relation of the French 'gilet' - a waistcoat?

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek, meaning waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    MacBain doesnrCOt think thererCOs a link:

    rCYgille, lad, servant, Ir. giolla, E. Ir. gilla; cf. Eng. child,
    Ag. S. cild. Zimmer thinks it is borrowed from the Norse gildr, stout, brawny, of full worth, Eng. guild, Ag. S. gild, payment (see geall), gilda, fellow, used in the names of Norsemen converted to Christianity instead of maol,
    slave. gille-fo-luinn, sea-grass (Wh.).rCY

    The Irish word isnrCOt used for rCLladrCY in my experience. It comes up in surnames a
    decent amount but just as rCLservantrCY isnrCOt used much these days there isnrCOt much
    call for use of rCLgiolla.rCY


    Buy your own Ghillie here: https://www.theghilliesuits.com/
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 20:25:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 12/08/26 19:16, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    MacBain doesnrCOt think thererCOs a link:

    rCYgille, lad, servant, Ir. giolla, E. Ir. gilla; cf. Eng. child, Ag.
    S. cild. Zimmer thinks it is borrowed from the Norse gildr, stout,
    brawny, of full worth, Eng. guild, Ag. S. gild, payment (see geall),
    gilda, fellow, used in the names of Norsemen converted to
    Christianity instead of maol, slave. gille-fo-luinn, sea-grass
    (Wh.).rCY

    That last bit struck my eye because of my surname. I'd always assumed
    that one of my ancestors was tonsured. Was he instead a slave?

    Just to check, I did an on-line translation of "slave" to Irish, and got b|-arla. That only added to the confusion. I thought b|-arla was what the Sasanchs spoke.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 12:34:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh Peter Moylan:

    On 12/08/26 19:16, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    MacBain doesnrCOt think thererCOs a link:

    rCYgille, lad, servant, Ir. giolla, E. Ir. gilla; cf. Eng. child, Ag.
    S. cild. Zimmer thinks it is borrowed from the Norse gildr, stout,
    brawny, of full worth, Eng. guild, Ag. S. gild, payment (see geall), gilda, fellow, used in the names of Norsemen converted to
    Christianity instead of maol, slave. gille-fo-luinn, sea-grass
    (Wh.).rCY

    That last bit struck my eye because of my surname. I'd always assumed
    that one of my ancestors was tonsured. Was he instead a slave?

    Just to check, I did an on-line translation of "slave" to Irish, and got b|-arla. That only added to the confusion. I thought b|-arla was what the Sasanchs spoke.

    https://www.teanglann.ie/ for decent dictionaries, though IrCOm sure yourCOve come
    across it before.

    rCLMaolrCY for slave is Old Irish, it likely didnrCOt have that meaning when people
    were coming up with surnames.
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Silvano@Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 13:43:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Aidan Kehoe hat am 12.08.2026 um 11:16 geschrieben:

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek, meaning
    waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    500 Internal Error with 3 browsers. What's going on?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 13:02:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 12/08/2026 |a 12:43, Silvano a |-crit :
    Aidan Kehoe hat am 12.08.2026 um 11:16 geschrieben:

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek, meaning
    waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from
    https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    500 Internal Error with 3 browsers. What's going on?


    Works in Firefox and Opera for me, from here and in Germany (via a VPN).

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 13:00:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh Silvano:

    Aidan Kehoe hat am 12.08.2026 um 11:16 geschrieben:

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek, meaning waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    500 Internal Error with 3 browsers. What's going on?

    Works fine from here, and when I tunnel to a server in Finland and access via that. I suspect they are attempting to do something special if they are serving to a German IP address and that something is buggy.

    Now I think of it, I still have a server with a German IP address. Just tunneled to that and can load it OK. Hmm.
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From musika@mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 13:49:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 12/08/2026 12:43, Silvano wrote:
    Aidan Kehoe hat am 12.08.2026 um 11:16 geschrieben:

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek, meaning
    waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from
    https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    500 Internal Error with 3 browsers. What's going on?

    Worked first time for me with Firefox and chrome
    --
    Ray
    UK
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snidely@snidely.too@gmail.com to alt.usage.english on Wed Aug 12 12:23:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Lo, on the 8/12/2026, musika did proclaim ...
    On 12/08/2026 12:43, Silvano wrote:
    Aidan Kehoe hat am 12.08.2026 um 11:16 geschrieben:

    The OED asserts that the French word is ultimately from Turkish yelek,
    meaning
    waistcoat; seems to be a native Turkish word from
    https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/yelek .

    500 Internal Error with 3 browsers. What's going on?

    Worked first time for me with Firefox and chrome

    And still works several hours later, according to my browser.

    Note that "500" means you reached the address you were trying for, but something failed behind the curtain. Quite possibly a link between the
    front end and the backend, or between the gateway and the front end.

    /dps
    --
    Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Thu Aug 13 14:33:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 12/08/26 21:34, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh Peter Moylan:

    On 12/08/26 19:16, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    MacBain doesnrCOt think thererCOs a link:

    rCYgille, lad, servant, Ir. giolla, E. Ir. gilla; cf. Eng. child,
    Ag. S. cild. Zimmer thinks it is borrowed from the Norse gildr,
    stout, brawny, of full worth, Eng. guild, Ag. S. gild, payment
    (see geall), gilda, fellow, used in the names of Norsemen
    converted to Christianity instead of maol, slave.
    gille-fo-luinn, sea-grass (Wh.).rCY

    That last bit struck my eye because of my surname. I'd always
    assumed that one of my ancestors was tonsured. Was he instead a
    slave?

    Just to check, I did an on-line translation of "slave" to Irish,
    and got b|-arla. That only added to the confusion. I thought b|-arla
    was what the Sasanchs spoke.

    I now realise that I misread a dictionary entry. It wasn't saying that
    b|-arla (which, for the benefit of others out there, means English in the
    sense of the English language) means slave. Instead, it was saying that
    the English word "slave" means gioalla.

    It's not the first time I was misled by cryptic abbreviations in
    dictionaries. Unfortunately they all need to use abbreviations for
    common terms, but they don't always use the same system.

    https://www.teanglann.ie/ for decent dictionaries, though IrCOm sure
    yourCOve come across it before.

    Thanks. I've just bookmarked that.

    A Firefox crash some time ago deleted all my bookmarks, and I haven't
    yet gotten around to rebuilding them. On top of that, I've been
    neglecting my Irish lessons because of competing demands on my time.

    rCLMaolrCY for slave is Old Irish, it likely didnrCOt have that meaning
    when people were coming up with surnames.

    Ah, thanks, I'll remember that.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Aug 13 08:37:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 12/08/2026 09:51 AM, occam wrote:

    I was watching video footage of Ukrainian forces engaging Russian
    positions in Donetsk when the voiceover mentioned 'Ghillie' suits - the camouflage suits soldiers wear in forests, woods to make them look like bushes.

    Yes, I'd seen 'ghillie' suits in films and hunting videos before, but
    had never heard the term before.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that it is of Gaelic origine.

    "The word "ghillie" is derived from the Scots Gaelic term "gille," which translates to "young man" or "servant." This term historically referred
    to individuals who assisted sportsmen in hunting and fishing,
    particularly in the Scottish Highlands. "

    I think I first encountered the word "Ghillie" in the David Walker book
    (and the film) "Geordie".

    My question (in order not to upset the traditionalists here) - Is
    'Ghillie' a relation of the French 'gilet' - a waistcoat?

    AI search engine result for "Is the Caelic word "ghillie" related to the French word "gilet"?":

    QUOTE:
    No, the Scottish Gaelic word ghillie and the French word gilet are
    completely unrelated and come from entirely different language families.
    Their similar spelling and sound in English are a coincidence.

    Origins of "Ghillie":

    Language Family: Scottish Gaelic / Celtic

    Meaning: Derived from gille, meaning a boy, lad, or manservant.

    In the Scottish Highlands, it came to mean an outdoor attendant or guide
    who assists on hunting and fishing trips.

    Derivatives: This is the root behind terms like ghillie suit (camouflage clothing worn by hunters and snipers) and ghillie brogues (traditional
    laced shoes with no tongues).

    Origins of "Gilet":

    Language Family: French (borrowed via regional Italian from Turkish)

    Meaning: A light, sleeveless jacket, vest, or waistcoat.

    Etymology: The French word gilet traces back through regional Italian
    dialects (like Genoese gilecco) to the Turkish word yelek, meaning a
    vest or jacket.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Thu Aug 13 10:33:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 13/08/2026 09:37, JNugent wrote:
    On 12/08/2026 09:51 AM, occam wrote:

    I was watching video footage of Ukrainian forces engaging Russian
    positions in Donetsk when the voiceover mentioned 'Ghillie' suits - the
    camouflage suits soldiers wear in forests, woods to make them look like
    bushes.

    Yes, I'd seen 'ghillie' suits in films and hunting videos before, but
    had never heard the term before.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that it is of Gaelic origine.

    "The word "ghillie" is derived from the Scots Gaelic term "gille," which
    translates to "young man" or "servant." This term historically referred
    to individuals who assisted sportsmen in hunting and fishing,
    particularly in the Scottish Highlands. "

    I think I first encountered the word "Ghillie" in the David Walker book
    (and the film) "Geordie".

    My question (in order not to upset the traditionalists here) --a Is
    'Ghillie' a relation of the French 'gilet' - a waistcoat?

    AI search engine result for "Is the Caelic word "ghillie" related to the French word "gilet"?":

    Well, you see, I did not resort to AI, and our man Aidan Kehoe provided
    us with an equally good (if not better) answer (see upthread).

    Thanks for the rest ... and give my regards to your AI.


    QUOTE:
    No, the Scottish Gaelic word ghillie and the French word gilet are
    completely unrelated and come from entirely different language families. Their similar spelling and sound in English are a coincidence.

    Origins of "Ghillie":

    Language Family: Scottish Gaelic / Celtic

    Meaning: Derived from gille, meaning a boy, lad, or manservant.

    In the Scottish Highlands, it came to mean an outdoor attendant or guide
    who assists on hunting and fishing trips.

    Derivatives: This is the root behind terms like ghillie suit (camouflage clothing worn by hunters and snipers) and ghillie brogues (traditional
    laced shoes with no tongues).

    Origins of "Gilet":

    Language Family: French (borrowed via regional Italian from Turkish)

    Meaning: A light, sleeveless jacket, vest, or waistcoat.

    Etymology: The French word gilet traces back through regional Italian dialects (like Genoese gilecco) to the Turkish word yelek, meaning a
    vest or jacket.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Aug 13 11:45:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 13/08/2026 09:33 AM, occam wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 09:37, JNugent wrote:
    On 12/08/2026 09:51 AM, occam wrote:

    I was watching video footage of Ukrainian forces engaging Russian
    positions in Donetsk when the voiceover mentioned 'Ghillie' suits - the
    camouflage suits soldiers wear in forests, woods to make them look like
    bushes.

    Yes, I'd seen 'ghillie' suits in films and hunting videos before, but
    had never heard the term before.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that it is of Gaelic origine. >>>
    "The word "ghillie" is derived from the Scots Gaelic term "gille," which >>> translates to "young man" or "servant." This term historically referred
    to individuals who assisted sportsmen in hunting and fishing,
    particularly in the Scottish Highlands. "

    I think I first encountered the word "Ghillie" in the David Walker book
    (and the film) "Geordie".

    My question (in order not to upset the traditionalists here) - Is
    'Ghillie' a relation of the French 'gilet' - a waistcoat?

    AI search engine result for "Is the Caelic word "ghillie" related to the
    French word "gilet"?":

    Well, you see, I did not resort to AI, and our man Aidan Kehoe provided
    us with an equally good (if not better) answer (see upthread).

    Thanks for the rest ... and give my regards to your AI.

    It is only in use as an improved search engine! ;-)

    QUOTE:
    No, the Scottish Gaelic word ghillie and the French word gilet are
    completely unrelated and come from entirely different language families.
    Their similar spelling and sound in English are a coincidence.

    Origins of "Ghillie":

    Language Family: Scottish Gaelic / Celtic

    Meaning: Derived from gille, meaning a boy, lad, or manservant.

    In the Scottish Highlands, it came to mean an outdoor attendant or guide
    who assists on hunting and fishing trips.

    Derivatives: This is the root behind terms like ghillie suit (camouflage
    clothing worn by hunters and snipers) and ghillie brogues (traditional
    laced shoes with no tongues).

    Origins of "Gilet":

    Language Family: French (borrowed via regional Italian from Turkish)

    Meaning: A light, sleeveless jacket, vest, or waistcoat.

    Etymology: The French word gilet traces back through regional Italian
    dialects (like Genoese gilecco) to the Turkish word yelek, meaning a
    vest or jacket.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2