• BrE 'verbals'

    From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 09:15:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second
    half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

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  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 08:31:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 18/06/2026 |a 08:15, occam a |-crit :
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo



    'Verbals' has quite a complicated entry in the OED - verbal confessions
    to the police (1963 on), words in a song or film dialogue (1964 on). A 'verbal' as a spoken or shouted insult goes back to ~1970:

    "3.c. [...] 'I pushed him back and thought it was now time for a touch
    of the verbals' - Daily Mail, 30 October [1970]."

    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990. The latter, says
    the OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.


    Play up! play up! and play the game, you [bleep]!

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  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 08:34:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 18/06/2026 |a 08:31, Hibou a |-crit :


    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990. The latter, says
    the OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.


    Apologies. 'Latter' is a leftover from incomplete editing.

    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990 and, says the
    OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.

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  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 18:10:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/26 17:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Ambiguous. Was Tuchel the arresting officer or the suspect?
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
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  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 10:23:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

    It is quite common English slang that is not restricted to football
    or even sport in general.
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  • From Phil@phil@anonymous.invalid to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 10:24:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo


    It's been part of my passive vocabulary for many years, with the sense
    of a severe haranguing or possibly just a stream of insults. I suspect
    that I heard it originally from 'Minder', which would place it in the
    category 'mockney'.
    --
    Phil B

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  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 11:00:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 10:24, Phil wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second
    half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo


    It's been part of my passive vocabulary for many years, with the sense
    of a severe haranguing or possibly just a stream of insults. I suspect
    that I heard it originally from 'Minder', which would place it in the category 'mockney'.

    Perhaps the scriptwriters picked it up here...
    "Police Slang (Lying): In British criminal and police jargon, "verbals"
    (or "doing a verbal")
    refers to police inventing an oral confession or statement of admission
    and attributing it to
    a suspect. This specific slang first appeared in the mid-20th century
    and was notably documented
    by Deputy Assistant Commissioner David Powis in his 1977 Field Manual
    for Police." Gemini

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  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 12:09:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 11:23, Julian wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second
    half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

    It is quite common English slang that is not restricted to football
    or even sport in general.

    Hmm, that's clear. Judging by the several examples here, it is British
    speak used by the rough trade, gangsters and The Daily Mail.
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  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 12:19:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 11:23, Julian wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second
    half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

    It is quite common English slang that is not restricted to football
    or even sport in general.

    Hmm, that's clear. Judging by the several examples here, it is British
    speak used by the rough trade, gangsters and The Daily Mail.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From occam@occam@nowhere.nix to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 10:19:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    This message was cancelled from within Mozilla Thunderbird
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  • From richard@richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 10:29:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <1110dgt$2g44v$1@dont-email.me>,
    Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> wrote:

    It's been part of my passive vocabulary for many years, with the sense
    of a severe haranguing or possibly just a stream of insults. I suspect
    that I heard it originally from 'Minder', which would place it in the >category 'mockney'.

    "GBH on the ear'ole"

    -- Richard
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  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 12:38:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 11:09, occam wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 11:23, Julian wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second >>> half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

    It is quite common English slang that is not restricted to football
    or even sport in general.

    Hmm, that's clear. Judging by the several examples here, it is British
    speak used by the rough trade, gangsters and The Daily Mail.

    There are 297 occurrences in The Times archive.

    The most recent in a Rugby match report.

    "In the main stand, there were some verbals between home supporters and non-playing members of the travelling party, including the Springbok
    Canan Moodie. The southern hemisphere crew would have the last laugh."

    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/scottish/article/edinburgh-rugby-pretoria-bulls-urc-live-match-result-score-5bpclzmfd
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  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 18:55:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 08:31:09 +0100, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    Le 18/06/2026 |a 08:15, occam a |-crit :
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second
    half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo



    'Verbals' has quite a complicated entry in the OED - verbal confessions
    to the police (1963 on), words in a song or film dialogue (1964 on). A >'verbal' as a spoken or shouted insult goes back to ~1970:

    "3.c. [...] 'I pushed him back and thought it was now time for a touch
    of the verbals' - Daily Mail, 30 October [1970]."

    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990. The latter, says
    the OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.

    Using words ("expletives"?) as opposed to sticking your tongue out, or
    putting your thumbs in your ears abnd waggling your fingers?
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Sam Plusnet@not@home.com to alt.usage.english on Thu Jun 18 22:23:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 11:19, occam wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 11:23, Julian wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 08:15, occam wrote:
    [Apologies for dragging football into AUE.]

    "It was the moment the game turned as England rCo late out for the second >>> half and clearly fuelled by a few verbals from Tuchel" (see BBC link)

    Since when has 'verbals' (noun, pl.) been a synonym for 'words'?. Here
    it is BrE football speak for (harsh) words. Does anyone use it outside
    of football?

    The BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cwylqvgne7lo

    It is quite common English slang that is not restricted to football
    or even sport in general.

    Hmm, that's clear. Judging by the several examples here, it is British
    speak used by the rough trade, gangsters and The Daily Mail.

    Steady on! There are a few gangsters who might take offence at being
    lumped in with the DM.
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  • From Phil@phil@anonymous.invalid to alt.usage.english on Fri Jun 19 10:13:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/06/2026 11:29, Richard Tobin wrote:
    In article <1110dgt$2g44v$1@dont-email.me>,
    Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> wrote:

    It's been part of my passive vocabulary for many years, with the sense
    of a severe haranguing or possibly just a stream of insults. I suspect
    that I heard it originally from 'Minder', which would place it in the
    category 'mockney'.

    "GBH on the ear'ole"

    -- Richard

    Exactly. Probably from 'er indoors.
    --
    Phil B

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  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Fri Jun 19 11:38:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 18/06/2026 |a 17:55, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
    Hibou wrote:

    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990. The latter, says
    the OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.

    Using words ("expletives"?) as opposed to sticking your tongue out, or putting your thumbs in your ears abnd waggling your fingers?


    That must be it. Don't look at me in that tone of voice!

    Many places now have signs up saying they take a zero-tolerance approach
    to verbal abuse (more simply, they don't tolerate it). I've sometimes
    wondered if persiflage counts. Now I come to look it up, 'persiflage'
    seems to have a weaker meaning in English than in French (I'd been
    thinking of the French sort):

    "Conversation that is funny and not serious" - <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/persiflage>

    "light frivolous conversation, style, or treatment; friendly teasing" - <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/persiflage>

    But:

    -2 Action de persifler [Tourner quelqu'un en ridicule par des compliments ironiques, se moquer de lui] -+ - <https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/persiflage/59787>

    I.e. it's ridiculing someone through ironic remarks. This is very
    French. They have a talent for being wicked to each other, as can be
    seen in 'Les liaisons dangereuses', 'Ridicule', and 'Le d|<ner de cons' -
    good fun to watch, perhaps less fun for the victims.

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  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Sat Jun 20 03:39:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 11:38:37 +0100, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    Le 18/06/2026 |a 17:55, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
    Hibou wrote:

    'To verbal' meaning to abuse verbally dates from ~1990. The latter, says >>> the OED, is mainly Australian, less commonly British.

    Using words ("expletives"?) as opposed to sticking your tongue out, or
    putting your thumbs in your ears abnd waggling your fingers?


    That must be it. Don't look at me in that tone of voice!

    Many places now have signs up saying they take a zero-tolerance approach
    to verbal abuse (more simply, they don't tolerate it). I've sometimes >wondered if persiflage counts. Now I come to look it up, 'persiflage'
    seems to have a weaker meaning in English than in French (I'd been
    thinking of the French sort):

    "Conversation that is funny and not serious" - ><https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/persiflage>

    "light frivolous conversation, style, or treatment; friendly teasing" - ><https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/persiflage>

    But:

    -2 Action de persifler [Tourner quelqu'un en ridicule par des compliments >ironiques, se moquer de lui] -+ - ><https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/persiflage/59787>

    I.e. it's ridiculing someone through ironic remarks. This is very
    French. They have a talent for being wicked to each other, as can be
    seen in 'Les liaisons dangereuses', 'Ridicule', and 'Le d|<ner de cons' - >good fun to watch, perhaps less fun for the victims.

    I suppose there must be a point at which satire shades over into
    abuse, and the question then becomes, who is to judge when that point
    is passed. I suppose it is ultimately courts of law, as when you
    charge someone with crimen injuria.

    See here: <https://cklaw.co.za/exploring-the-boundaries-of-free-speech-differentiating-between-defamation-and-crimen-injuria/>

    But I think crimen injuria covers more than just verbal abuse --
    gestures and other acts might count as well.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2