This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less
than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e. more technology.)
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less
than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like
it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting
to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live
less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-
ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-
in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine,
i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like
it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed] bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like
it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
Not to mention all the social changes. Many Trump supporters want the USA to be
as it was in the 1950s, when blacks and women and "allies" knew their place.
The quiz is quite clearly asking about technology.
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to belike the Parish Council in Somerset who wanted to make their village
like it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
free of electromagnetic radiation!
"Dissatisfaction with modern technology and its trappings - including AI, subscriptions, data tracking, and algorithm-driven apps - is having an impact, with nearly half of Gen Z[ed] adults in the US (aged 18-29) would rather live in the past than the present day.
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed] bracket, who
were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e. more
technology.)
Well, I'm such a retrophiliac! I go online to collect photographs
of my local boroughs showing how they looked decades ago when I
was young, looking at those old buildings to calm me down. But now
I do not feel so alone anymore knowing that even people who never
experienced those demolished buildings want to live in that past too!
A writer recently reported about his 12-year-old daughter watching,
"Stand by me" (1986):
Verily, in article <past-20260617200451@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>, did ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de deliver unto us this message:
Well, I'm such a retrophiliac! I go online to collect photographs
of my local boroughs showing how they looked decades ago when I
was young, looking at those old buildings to calm me down. But now
I do not feel so alone anymore knowing that even people who never
experienced those demolished buildings want to live in that past too!
A writer recently reported about his 12-year-old daughter watching,
"Stand by me" (1986):
I've taught several students who've said that they wish they'd lived
before the invention of AI.
On 17/06/2026 20:43, The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <past-20260617200451@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>, did ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de deliver unto us this message:
Well, I'm such a retrophiliac! I go online to collect photographs
of my local boroughs showing how they looked decades ago when I
was young, looking at those old buildings to calm me down. But now
I do not feel so alone anymore knowing that even people who never
experienced those demolished buildings want to live in that past too! >>
A writer recently reported about his 12-year-old daughter watching,
"Stand by me" (1986):
I've taught several students who've said that they wish they'd lived
before the invention of AI.
They'd freak if they were allowed 50 years in a time machine
and then find they didn't have a phone. :)
Verily, in article <110v1id$255ep$2@dont-email.me>, did julianlzb87 @gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
On 17/06/2026 20:43, The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <past-20260617200451@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>, did
ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de deliver unto us this message:
Well, I'm such a retrophiliac! I go online to collect photographs
of my local boroughs showing how they looked decades ago when I
was young, looking at those old buildings to calm me down. But now >>>> I do not feel so alone anymore knowing that even people who never
experienced those demolished buildings want to live in that past too! >>>>
A writer recently reported about his 12-year-old daughter watching, >>>> "Stand by me" (1986):
I've taught several students who've said that they wish they'd lived
before the invention of AI.
They'd freak if they were allowed 50 years in a time machine
and then find they didn't have a phone. :)
Maybe. They don't fully realize what it would actually be like.
Then again, Gen Z is the cohort which calls doing without entertainment "rawdogging" and competes to see how long they can do it. They're an interesting cohort. They're the first in history to be more averse to
new inventions than their elders.
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting
to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live
less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-
ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-
in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine,
i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like
it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
-|There is an article about spyware in this months 'PC Pro' magazine.
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be
like it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
Perhaps that is what they want. There's much to be said for the past, though; it was often unpleasant, but there's a degree of certainty about
it that is lacking now. Broadly speaking, we know how the story turned out.
To some extent we can pick and choose the technology we use - refuse to
have a connected fridge, etc. - but it's not always easy. It's hard to
find a non-internet-connected telly-|, and if all your mates are on
WhatsApp and TikTok, it's social suicide not to be so yourself.
Den 18.06.2026 kl. 07.48 skrev Hibou:
To some extent we can pick and choose the technology we use - refuse
to have a connected fridge, etc. - but it's not always easy. It's hard
to find a non-internet-connected telly-|, and if all your mates are on
WhatsApp and TikTok, it's social suicide not to be so yourself.
Instead of a spying tv you can choose a dumb monitor,
but of course the
streaming requires internet and some degree of spying.
I dread the
moment when we can no longer drive a car without setting up a profile
and logging in. Hackers will have a field day remote-controlling cars on
the road.
I'll bet that Teslas send a detailed report back to the Tesla servers.
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people - but
drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty. Substitute the
drug culture for drink nowadays.
Den 18.06.2026 kl. 10.26 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people - but
drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty. Substitute the
drug culture for drink nowadays.
Substitute? Try "supplement".
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people - but
drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty. Substitute
the drug culture for drink nowadays.
On 18 Jun 2026 at 09:59:37 BST, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 18.06.2026 kl. 10.26 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people - but
drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty. Substitute the
drug culture for drink nowadays.
Substitute? Try "supplement".
Quite so. Ten pounds plus a pint down south I hear . . .
On 17/06/2026 17:01, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:like the Parish Council in Somerset who wanted to make their village
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting
to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live
less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-
ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-
in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine,
i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like
it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
free of electromagnetic radiation!
Verily, in article <1781716258-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed] bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to
live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e.
more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
Not to mention all the social changes. Many Trump supporters want the USA to be
as it was in the 1950s, when blacks and women and "allies" knew their place.
What is your source for this claim?
The quiz is quite clearly asking about technology. GenZ has an oft-noted aversion to tech and craving for authenticity. To imply that they're
all a bunch of closet racists who want a more racist world is a smear,
and "Trump supporters" have nothing to do with anything. They polled Zoomers, an age bracket, not a political bracket.
On 17/06/2026 17:01, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:like the Parish Council in Somerset who wanted to make their village
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun
policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting
to live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live
less than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-
products- ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-
want-to-live- in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine,
i.e. more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be
like it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
free of electromagnetic radiation!
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <1781716258-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 17.06.2026 kl. 15.31 skrev Hibou:Not to mention all the social changes. Many Trump supporters want the USA to be
This is from an NBC News survey of 3,009 people in the Gen Z[ed]
bracket, who were quizzed on issues covering climate change and gun >> > > > policy to personal finances and religion. The data showed 14% wanting to
live 50 or more years in the past, with 33% percent keen to live less >> > > > than 50 years in the past, given the choice" -
<https://www.techradar.com/tech/too-many-subscriptions-worse-products-ai-hurtful-algorithms-spy-devices-nearly-half-of-gen-z-want-to-live-in-the-past-due-to-the-trappings-of-modern-tech>
(It would appear that the solution to technology is a time machine, i.e.
more technology.)
No, they don't want to live in the past. They want the world to be like >> > > it was. That means dismantling all the evil technologies.
as it was in the 1950s, when blacks and women and "allies" knew their place.
What is your source for this claim?
Try this: https://thedispatch.com/article/maga-republicans-1950s-nostalgia/ >That wasn't my actual source, but one that I quickly found in response to >your challenge. It took a whole 5 seconds to find.
The quiz is quite clearly asking about technology. GenZ has an oft-noted
aversion to tech and craving for authenticity. To imply that they're
all a bunch of closet racists who want a more racist world is a smear,
I didn't imply that. I made a comment about one group of people who hanker >after the simplicities of the 1950s. No implication about anyone else.
and "Trump supporters" have nothing to do with anything. They polledI fear that I may have touched a raw nerve. I hadn't realized we had any Magats
Zoomers, an age bracket, not a political bracket.
in this group.
The future, though, is something they [Gen Z] see as technologically advanced from a present that is already technologically advanced. It's a
generation where they've never been separated from the ability to
contact anyone else or find any useful information at the touch of a button...instant access to anything they want to know or do. It's understandable that they think the future can only make it better or
easier.
Old gits like me look at the future with some - or a lot - of
trepidation about what is to come because we are more aware of world
affairs, politics, and the shit-storm that could come to be if we
continue the same path we are on now.
There are some big differences between now and the 1950s. Technology
has become pervasive, largely incomprehensible, and has fallen into
the hands of the nastier elements of humanity - hackers, fraudsters,
toxic governments, and the owners of 'social' media.
I fear that I may have touched a raw nerve. I hadn't realized we had any Magats
in this group.
On 18/06/2026 15:48, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
I fear that I may have touched a raw nerve. I hadn't realized we had any Magats
in this group.
I like 'Magats'. It would get my vote as 'word of the year' for 2026.
Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people
- but drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty.
Substitute the drug culture for drink nowadays.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people
What kind of fantasy Victorian novels have you been reading?
Ones without slums, child labour, or English disease, or...?
- but drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty.
Substitute the drug culture for drink nowadays.
Yes, Oscar Wilde already said so,
Le 19/06/2026 |a 00:56, Tony Cooper a |-crit :
Old gits like me look at the future with some - or a lot - of
trepidation about what is to come because we are more aware of world
affairs, politics, and the shit-storm that could come to be if we
continue the same path we are on now.
There are some big differences between now and the 1950s. Technology has >become pervasive, largely incomprehensible, and has fallen into the
hands of the nastier elements of humanity - hackers, fraudsters, toxic >governments, and the owners of 'social' media.
The future looks bleak. In the 50s, I suppose the main worry was nuclear >war. That worry still lurks, the weapons still exist, and we can now add--
to it accelerating climate change, AI, robot soldiers and drones,
powerful rogue states that seem to be becoming less stable, not more >(Russia, USA), the occasional pandemic (now that we travel a lot and
huddle together on cruise ships), and the Kessler syndrome (a chain of >collisions that destroys essential satellites and causes our systems to >collapse).
No doubt more people have cars now than in the 1950s, but that is
partly because there are more people now than in the 1950s.
Hibou wrote:
There are some big differences between now and the 1950s. Technology has
become pervasive, largely incomprehensible, and has fallen into the
hands of the nastier elements of humanity - hackers, fraudsters, toxic
governments, and the owners of 'social' media.
I doubt that technology has become more pervasive, but agree that it
has become more controlling and controllable by the nastier elements
of humanity, though to hackers, fraudsters, toxic governments, and the
owners of 'social' media you could add big business.
No doubt more people have cars now than in the 1950s, but that is
partly because there are more people now than in the 1950s. But if
your car broke down in the bundu far from the nearest dealer, you
could repair it with the tools provided -- and that was technology,
working for the benefit of the buyer. By yesterday I read about a new Mercedes where you can't even open the bonnet -- it has to be done by
a computer at the dealer. And when the vendor of the operating system
on the computer ends support for it, not even the dealer can open it.
What happens it it breaks down 1000 miles from the nearest dealer? [...]
[...] Rail and air tickets were
pieces of paper and card, not QR codes or RFID cards. [...]
Le 20/06/2026 |a 02:26, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
There are some big differences between now and the 1950s. Technology has >>> become pervasive, largely incomprehensible, and has fallen into the
hands of the nastier elements of humanity - hackers, fraudsters, toxic
governments, and the owners of 'social' media.
I doubt that technology has become more pervasive, but agree that it
has become more controlling and controllable by the nastier elements
of humanity, though to hackers, fraudsters, toxic governments, and the
owners of 'social' media you could add big business.
No doubt more people have cars now than in the 1950s, but that is
partly because there are more people now than in the 1950s. But if
your car broke down in the bundu far from the nearest dealer, you
could repair it with the tools provided -- and that was technology,
working for the benefit of the buyer. By yesterday I read about a new
Mercedes where you can't even open the bonnet -- it has to be done by
a computer at the dealer. And when the vendor of the operating system
on the computer ends support for it, not even the dealer can open it.
What happens it it breaks down 1000 miles from the nearest dealer? [...]
Yes, that's not good. I sometimes wonder what it means to own a product
such as a car or a phone. Doesn't ownership mean that one has control
over what happens to the thing one owns, within the limits of the law?
Anyway, can I justify "Technology has become pervasive"? I think so.
Back in the 1950s, no-one had a mobile phone. Rail and air tickets were >pieces of paper and card, not QR codes or RFID cards. We paid with coins
and notes, not bank cards. We found our way about with paper maps, not >appsrCa. Many of our systems now depend on satellites - agriculture, >aviation, emergency services, finance, railways, shipping, road
transport, and others.
'The economic impact on the UK of a disruption to GNSS' - ><https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/report-the-economic-impact-on-the-uk-of-a-disruption-to-gnss/the-economic-impact-on-the-uk-of-a-disruption-to-gnss-executive-summary#key-findings>--
Hibou wrote:
Anyway, can I justify "Technology has become pervasive"? I think so.
Back in the 1950s, no-one had a mobile phone. Rail and air tickets were
pieces of paper and card, not QR codes or RFID cards. We paid with coins
and notes, not bank cards. We found our way about with paper maps, not
appsrCa. Many of our systems now depend on satellites - agriculture,
aviation, emergency services, finance, railways, shipping, road
transport, and others.
But rail and air travel are themselves technology, and rail, in
particular relies on one of the oldest forms or technology -- the
wheel. Paper tickets were printed using printing technology.
The threat is not technology, but the use to which it is put, which is
not technology but sociology. We already have the Big Brother society envisaged by George Orwell in 1948. The problem is not technology, but
the use of technology to enforce social control.
And with AI and climate models, we just have to trust the computers.
This opaqueness facilitates surveillance and control. I've mentioned
'smart' tellies and how they spy on their users. If the same data had to
be gathered by a human spy sat on the sofa next to them, people would instantly object and send him packing.
It's no wonder that some would like to return to simpler times.
That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology
is applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving
to the station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that
weren't on a 1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station
very likely no longer has staff, but mechanical-electronic
barriers linked to billing computers. The train is electric,
controlled by electronics, with electronic signalling, tracking,
and communicationsrCa. It's a long way from shovelling coal into
an overgrown kettle, and metal signals operated by wires and
cranks.
Le 21/06/2026 |a 04:33, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Anyway, can I justify "Technology has become pervasive"? I think so.
Back in the 1950s, no-one had a mobile phone. Rail and air tickets were
pieces of paper and card, not QR codes or RFID cards. We paid with coins >>> and notes, not bank cards. We found our way about with paper maps, not
appsrCa. Many of our systems now depend on satellites - agriculture,
aviation, emergency services, finance, railways, shipping, road
transport, and others.
But rail and air travel are themselves technology, and rail, in
particular relies on one of the oldest forms or technology -- the
wheel. Paper tickets were printed using printing technology.
That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology is
applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving to the station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that weren't on a
1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station very likely no longer
has staff, but mechanical-electronic barriers linked to billing
computers. The train is electric, controlled by electronics, with
electronic signalling, tracking, and communicationsrCa. It's a long way
from shovelling coal into an overgrown kettle, and metal signals
operated by wires and cranks.
The threat is not technology, but the use to which it is put, which is
not technology but sociology. We already have the Big Brother society
envisaged by George Orwell in 1948. The problem is not technology, but
the use of technology to enforce social control.
I think there are several aspects to the problem. One is dependency: the national grid failing as the result of a cyberattack, for instance.
Another is opaqueness: even experts understand only a fraction of how
things work. Just fetching a web page, for example, is more complicated
than one might imagine:
<https://www.catchpoint.com/blog/http-transaction-steps>
And with AI and climate models, we just have to trust the computers.
This opaqueness facilitates surveillance and control.
'smart' tellies and how they spy on their users. If the same data had to
be gathered by a human spy sat on the sofa next to them, people would instantly object and send him packing.
It's no wonder that some would like to return to simpler times.
Evidently climate change is all based on a conspiracy involving all
those scientists (and their computers) who (apparently) have a vested interest in ... something or other - and are, to a man, evil and cruel manipulators bent on ruining the world.
On 22/06/26 04:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
Evidently climate change is all based on a conspiracy involving all
those scientists (and their computers) who (apparently) have a vested
interest in ... something or other - and are, to a man, evil and cruel
manipulators bent on ruining the world.
That's pretty close to the truth. Just change "scientists" to "trillionaires".
On 21 Jun 2026, Hibou wrote
That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology
is applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving
to the station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that
weren't on a 1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station
very likely no longer has staff, but mechanical-electronic
barriers linked to billing computers. The train is electric,
controlled by electronics, with electronic signalling, tracking,
and communicationsrCa. It's a long way from shovelling coal into
an overgrown kettle, and metal signals operated by wires and
cranks.
Oy!
Admittedly it can attract loners, but whilst some signalpersons might
be a bit strange, lumping them all together like that is a tad
unfair...
Evidently climate change is all based on a conspiracy involving all
those scientists (and their computers) who (apparently) have a vested interest in ... something or other
That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology is
applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving to the
station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that weren't on a
1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station very likely no longer
has staff, but mechanical-electronic barriers linked to billing
computers. The train is electric, controlled by electronics, with
electronic signalling, tracking, and communicationsrCa. It's a long way
from shovelling coal into an overgrown kettle, and metal signals
operated by wires and cranks.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people
What kind of fantasy Victorian novels have you been reading?
Ones without slums, child labour, or English disease, or...?
- but drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty.
Substitute the drug culture for drink nowadays.
Yes, Oscar Wilde already said so,
On 21/06/2026 07:08, Hibou wrote:
That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology is applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving to the station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that weren't on a 1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station very likely no longer has staff, but mechanical-electronic barriers linked to billing
computers. The train is electric, controlled by electronics, with electronic signalling, tracking, and communicationsrCa. It's a long way from shovelling coal into an overgrown kettle, and metal signals
operated by wires and cranks.
Ahh, but one thing hasn't changed. The excuses for the delays are always announced by humans. No automated system would think of "Leaves on the tracks" or "the wrong type of snow" as excuses. Pre-AI excuses, made by humans, for humans.
Once around 1975 I went to Sheffield to give a lecture. When the time came to go back to Birmingham I went to the station, to find that my train was going to
be about an hour late. So were three other trains that were announced. What struck me was the inventiveness of the excuses: four trains, four different excuses. Reginald Perrin* couldn't have done better.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_and_Rise_of_Reginald_Perrin
if the reference seems too obscure.
On 18/06/26 18:26, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people - but
drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty. Substitute
the drug culture for drink nowadays.
I thought that one reason for the popularity of gin was that it was, in
those days, cheap.
By slapping on heavy taxes, today's governments have stopped the poor
from drinking spirits (apart from methylated spirits). The average
drinker has switched to beer, at least in Australia. Or wine, for the
upper middle class.
On 2026-06-19, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Ah ... they don't want to live in the past, they want to live in a
world that matches their idea of what the past was like.
Didn't the Victorians have a bout of that?
[1] smog
[2] poverty was "off screen"
Incomes in Victorian times weren't all that bad for most people
What kind of fantasy Victorian novels have you been reading?
Ones without slums, child labour, or English disease, or...?
- but drink was the main evil that led to widespread poverty.
Substitute the drug culture for drink nowadays.
Yes, Oscar Wilde already said so,
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
On 22/06/2026 13:52, Adam Funk wrote:
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
They didn't teach drinking at my school.-a I wuz deprived.
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
[...]
Evidently climate change is all based on a conspiracy involving all
those scientists (and their computers) who (apparently) have a vested interest in ... something or other
The 'something or other' is called a 'career'. There may be some truth
in the vast amount of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook spouted by the
'experts' [parasites] in the media - but when science funding depends on coming up with the 'right' answer, truth is very hard to find, even
among scientists.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
[...]
Evidently climate change is all based on a conspiracy involving all
those scientists (and their computers) who (apparently) have a vested interest in ... something or other
The 'something or other' is called a 'career'. There may be some truth
in the vast amount of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook spouted by the 'experts' [parasites] in the media - but when science funding depends on coming up with the 'right' answer, truth is very hard to find, even
among scientists.
There is no truth in words,
because words can always be countered with other words.
(aka flooding the zone with shit)
Truth can only come in by contact with outside reality.
And like it or not, reliable contact with real reality
can only be made by honest people of good will,
with scientific understanding.
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) posted:
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
You're right about that, of course, though it's much less severe in Marseilles than it is in much of France. We're just having normal
July weather, warm, certainly, but not suffocating.
Yesterday in Carpentras two little boys left too long in a very hot
car died from overheating. We don't yet know why their mother left
them so long. Maybe just stupid; maybe something worse.
Many years ago, just after I was married for the first time in 1968,
my then wife and I came across a closed car in a car park in Windsor
with a child inside. We couldn't get into the car, but when the
mother arrived we told her that she had done something very
dangerous. She was very angry and told us to mind our own business.
There is really no limit to how stupid people can be. (Of course,
what counted as a very hot day in Windsor probably wouldn't be
considered very hot in Carpentras, but even in England it gets very
hot in the summer.)
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
Le 23/06/2026 a 07:33, J. J. Lodder a ocrit :
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
Seeking sun or shade, or just oblique lighting for a good photo? I bookmarked these sites a while back. They're entertaining to play with,
but I've never had occasion to use them in anger.
This one's quite elaborate: <https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azimuth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.52360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple: <https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
Le 23/06/2026 a 07:33, J. J. Lodder a ocrit :
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
Seeking sun or shade, or just oblique lighting for a good photo? I bookmarked these sites a while back. They're entertaining to play with,
but I've never had occasion to use them in anger.
This one's quite elaborate: <https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azimuth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.52360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple: <https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
Hibou wrote:
This one's quite elaborate:
<https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azimuth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.52360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
All I get to see (ironically) is the strapline: "The Sun for Everyone"
Le 23/06/2026 a 07:33, J. J. Lodder a ocrit :
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
Seeking sun or shade, or just oblique lighting for a good photo? I bookmarked
these sites a while back. They're entertaining to play with, but I've never had occasion to use them in anger.
This one's quite elaborate: <https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azimuth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.52360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple: <https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
There is no truth in words,
because words can always be countered with other words.
(aka flooding the zone with shit)
Truth can only come in by contact with outside reality.
And like it or not, reliable contact with real reality
can only be made by honest people of good will,
with scientific understanding.
This one's quite elaborate:I see they cover most French cities, including those in southern Belgium!
<https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azimuth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.52360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple:
<https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
Le 22/06/2026 |a 22:05, Sam Plusnet a |-crit :
On 22/06/2026 13:52, Adam Funk wrote:
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
They didn't teach drinking at my school.-a I wuz deprived.
I'm in favour of children being taught how to drink - older children
that is, and perhaps not in school, but by their parents - taught how to
use alcohol without abusing it.
Le 23/06/2026 |a 07:33, J. J. Lodder a |-crit :
BTW, hottest weather ever for June coming your way,
Seeking sun or shade, or just oblique lighting for a good photo? I
bookmarked these sites a while back. They're entertaining to play
with, but I've never had occasion to use them in anger.
This one's quite elaborate:
<https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azi >muth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.5 >2360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple:
<https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
This one's quite elaborate:
<https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&azi
muth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=0.5
2360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple:
<https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
What excellent finds; thanks.
(I suspect that - like you - I'll find them more interesting than
personally useful, but one never knows.)
* (J. J. Lodder) <1rx4ka5.a579cy1qci0d0N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> :
Wrote on Tue, 23 Jun 2026 08:33:06 +0200:
There is no truth in words,
because words can always be countered with other words.
(aka flooding the zone with shit)
Truth can only come in by contact with outside reality.
When the only permitted contact with reality mediated through the
propaganda, the disconnect with actually encoutered reality is
scientifically treated as dissonance and mental illness.
And like it or not, reliable contact with real reality
can only be made by honest people of good will,
with scientific understanding.
It is possible to arrage that professionals left with careers are those working for [Israeli] propaganda
Den 24.06.2026 kl. 10.41 skrev HVS:
This one's quite elaborate:
<https://app.shadowmap.org/?lat=51.53350&lng=-0.13034&zoom=16.59&
azi
muth=2.84322&basemap=map&elevation=nextzen&f=29.0&hud=true&polar=
0.5 2360&time=1782217744668&vq=2>
And this one delightfully simple:
<https://jveuxdusoleil.fr/#17/48.8544/2.3509>
What excellent finds; thanks.
(I suspect that - like you - I'll find them more interesting than
personally useful, but one never knows.)
I find them a bit shady.
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