The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for
the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for
the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for
the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian,
even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
On 17/06/2026 01:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is speaking Italian,
...even without the hand gestures? I suppose you're right.
even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I could still tell which was which.
This is a daily pastime for me in Lux. We have the whole gamut of
languages thanks to the European institutions, and tourism.
So, even when the language spoken is French, you can pick out the native French speakers from the locals speaking it (it's an official language
here). Ditto German. I don't speak German or Luxembourgish, but the difference of rhythm is unmistakable.
[...] but I can tell when
a Chilean is pretending to be Argentinian (a bit like a French person pretending
to be Belgian without needing to say "nonante").
occam <occam@nowhere.nix> posted:
On 17/06/2026 01:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is speaking Italian,
...even without the hand gestures? I suppose you're right.
My wife can identify Argentinians by their gestures even when they are too far away to be heard. I would have said "says she can" rather than "can"
if it were not for one case, not long after we were married, when we were
in a train in China. At the far end of a long carriage there was a group
of people who were clearly not Chinese. My wife said she thought they were Argentinian. How can you possibly tell, I asked, they are too far away to hear them. So she walked to the far end of the carriage and when she came back she said yes, they were Argentinian. I can't always recognize Argentinians by their accent, unless there are strong hints, like
pronouncing ll as zh (/?/], but I can tell when a Chilean is pretending to
be Argentinian (a bit like a French person pretending to be Belgian
without needing to say "nonante").
Le 17/06/2026 |a 00:53, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for
the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station,
where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
I agree that one can often identify a language or dialect from what I
think of as its music, even if one hears only a snatch of it. People
from some parts of the world speak loudly, which makes it easier. To
them I'd say: you're a nuisance on the bus and - make no mistake - we
know who you are and we know where you're from. Think on!
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] but I can tell when a Chilean is pretending to
be Argentinian (a bit like a French person pretending to be Belgian
without needing to say "nonante").
But why would a French person want to impersonate a Belgian?
On 17/06/2026 06:31, Hibou wrote:
I agree that one can often identify a language or dialect from what I
think of as its music, even if one hears only a snatch of it. People
from some parts of the world speak loudly, which makes it easier. To
them I'd say: you're a nuisance on the bus and - make no mistake - we
know who you are and we know where you're from. Think on!
It can trip you up.
Why only yesterday I was standing on the White Cliffs of Dover (someone
has to do it) and heard a couple of women, presumably derived from the Indian subcontinent, speaking.
It was only when I got nearer to them that I realised they were speaking English - but very fast, and with the rhythm of a different language.
Then there's the way people walk. I sometimes gaze out of the window
at passers-by - walking quickly, confidently upright, or hunched as
if trying to be inconspicuous. I'm probably wrong, but I think I can
spot American actors pretending to be German sentries in war films.
They've the wrong kind of swagger.
I can usually tell the sex of a person at a distance. Men walk with
elbows out. Women walk with elbows in and hands out.
Le 17/06/2026 |a 19:27, J. J. Lodder a |-crit :
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] but I can tell when a Chilean is pretending to
be Argentinian (a bit like a French person pretending to be Belgian
without needing to say "nonante").
But why would a French person want to impersonate a Belgian?
To poke fun at them. Pour rire une fois.
Doesn't everyone have someone like this? Don't the Dutch take the piss
out of the Belgians too?
Then there's the way people walk. I sometimes gaze out of the window at passers-by - walking quickly, confidently upright, or hunched as if
trying to be inconspicuous. I'm probably wrong, but I think I can spot American actors pretending to be German sentries in war films. They've
the wrong kind of swagger.
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for
the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
Op 17/06/2026 om 1:53 schreef Peter Moylan:
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for
another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding. I've
thought repeatedly I was hearing Flemish or Dutch in, say, a bus or a
public place, when it turned out to be some alienese. Swedish or
Norwegian and even Japanese utterances have made me think I was
listening to West-Flemings. Etc.
wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> posted:
Op 17/06/2026 om 1:53 schreef Peter Moylan:When I've heard Portuguese spoken in an unexpected place I've sometimes thought
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for >>> the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >>> where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations >>> and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain
obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for
another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding. I've
thought repeatedly I was hearing Flemish or Dutch in, say, a bus or a
public place, when it turned out to be some alienese. Swedish or
Norwegian and even Japanese utterances have made me think I was
listening to West-Flemings. Etc.
it was Russian. Once in a restaurant at Gatwick Airport I spent the whole meal
trying to decide if the waiters were speaking Portuguese or Russian among themselves. At one point I was sure that I'd heard the word x-+-C-+-e-+ (fine) and
concluded that it was Russian. However, they were speaking Portuguese.
Before you say that I must be an idiot to confuse two rather different languages,
but I'm not alone, and I've come across plenty of people who have had similar
experiences, most notably two Russian scientists that I met in a laboratory in
Lisbon who told me that quite often they would be approached by people in the street who heard them speaking and thought they were speaking Portuguese.
I would add that Brazil is very different. I can understand about 30% of what I hear in Brazil, but about 0.5% of what I hear in Portugal. A fluent speaker of Spanish can follow a large proportion of what they hear in Brazil, but almost nothing in Portugal. Even Brazilians sometimes find communication difficult in Portugal.
Spanish <-> Portuguese is essentially a one-way filter. Much like Swedish <-> Danish, I've been told, with the difference that Portuguese speakers leave out the vowels and Danish speakers leave out the consonants.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station,
where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations
and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for
another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding.
I've thought repeatedly I was hearing Flemish or Dutch in, say, a bus or a public place, when it turned out to be some alienese. Swedish or
Norwegian and even Japanese utterances have made me think I was
listening to West-Flemings. Etc.
Spanish <-> Portuguese is essentially a one-way filter. Much like Swedish <-> Danish, I've been told, with the difference that Portuguese speakers leave out the vowels and Danish speakers leave out the consonants.
Op 18/06/2026 om 17:50 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> posted:
Op 17/06/2026 om 1:53 schreef Peter Moylan:When I've heard Portuguese spoken in an unexpected place I've sometimes thought
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV >>> in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through >>> the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for >>> the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >>> where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations >>> and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I >>> could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain
obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for
another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding. I've
thought repeatedly I was hearing Flemish or Dutch in, say, a bus or a
public place, when it turned out to be some alienese. Swedish or
Norwegian and even Japanese utterances have made me think I was
listening to West-Flemings. Etc.
it was Russian. Once in a restaurant at Gatwick Airport I spent the whole meal
Deja vu or rather, entendu. Seems a classical one.
trying to decide if the waiters were speaking Portuguese or Russian among themselves. At one point I was sure that I'd heard the word x-+-C-+-e-+ (fine) and
concluded that it was Russian. However, they were speaking Portuguese.
Before you say that I must be an idiot to confuse two rather different languages,
but I'm not alone, and I've come across plenty of people who have had similar
Add me in.
experiences, most notably two Russian scientists that I met in a laboratory in
Lisbon who told me that quite often they would be approached by people in the
street who heard them speaking and thought they were speaking Portuguese.
I would add that Brazil is very different. I can understand about 30% of what
I hear in Brazil, but about 0.5% of what I hear in Portugal. A fluent speaker
of Spanish can follow a large proportion of what they hear in Brazil, but almost nothing in Portugal. Even Brazilians sometimes find communication difficult in Portugal.
Spanish <-> Portuguese is essentially a one-way filter. Much like Swedish <->
Danish, I've been told, with the difference that Portuguese speakers leave out the vowels and Danish speakers leave out the consonants.
Also Spanish and Greek heard at a distance: similar phonetics and
rhythm.
Wasn't there something alike between Bahasa and Italian?
Den 18.06.2026 kl. 17.00 skrev wugi:
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >>> where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations >>> and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain
obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for
another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding.
I've hear Rumanian in the tv which I thought was Italian.
I've thought repeatedly I was hearing Flemish or Dutch in, say, a bus
or a public place, when it turned out to be some alienese. Swedish or
Norwegian and even Japanese utterances have made me think I was
listening to West-Flemings. Etc.
Many years ago I turned on the tv and fell into some program. The
language was incomprehensible for a while until I suddenly realised that
it was Danish. I had started listening out of sync with the speaker. It
was quite strange.
When I've heard Portuguese spoken in an unexpected place I've[...]
sometimes thought it was Russian.
but I'm not alone,
Den 18.06.2026 kl. 17.00 skrev wugi:
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >> where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations >> and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
That will work only for languages one knows or has some notion of. For
most people it wouldn't exceed the dozen. All the others would remain obscure.
OTOH there are languages and accents that can easily be mistaken for another one when heard as a mumble or in a noisy surrounding.
I've hear Rumanian in the tv which I thought was Italian.
On 17/06/2026 06:31, Hibou wrote:
Le 17/06/2026 |a 00:53, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
I agree that one can often identify a language or dialect from what
The other day I was sitting at my computer, and my wife was watching TV
in another room. The sounds of the movie she was watching came through
the walls, but not loudly enough to allow words to be picked up. Not for >>> the first time, it struck me how easy it is to tell that someone is
speaking Italian, even if you can't clearly hear the words. Of course
all languages have some characteristic -- rhythm, tone, and so on --
that identify them, but Italian is one of the easier ones to pick.
When I was a student I often travelled by train. Spencer Street station, >>> where most of the country trains departed, was a place where many
languages could be heard. It used to amuse me to listen to conversations >>> and identify the language. I didn't speak any of those languages, but I
could still tell which was which.
I think of as its music, even if one hears only a snatch of
it. People from some parts of the world speak loudly, which makes it
easier. To them I'd say: you're a nuisance on the bus and - make no
mistake - we know who you are and we know where you're from. Think
on!
It can trip you up.
Why only yesterday I was standing on the White Cliffs of Dover
(someone has to do it) and heard a couple of women, presumably derived
from the Indian subcontinent, speaking.
It was only when I got nearer to them that I realised they were
speaking English - but very fast, and with the rhythm of a different language.
I would add that Brazil is very different. I can understand about 30%
of what I hear in Brazil, but about 0.5% of what I hear in Portugal.
A fluent speaker of Spanish can follow a large proportion of what
they hear in Brazil, but almost nothing in Portugal. Even Brazilians sometimes find communication difficult in Portugal.
On 18/06/2026 09:06, Hibou wrote:
[...] I'm probably wrong, but I think I can spot
American actors pretending to be German sentries in war films. They've
the wrong kind of swagger.
Are there many American actors playing German sentry roles in your neck
of the world? How to verify your claim?
Op 18/06/2026 om 7:48 schreef Hibou:
Le 17/06/2026 a 19:27, J. J. Lodder a ocrit :
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] but I can tell when a Chilean is pretending to
be Argentinian (a bit like a French person pretending to be Belgian
without needing to say "nonante").
But why would a French person want to impersonate a Belgian?
To poke fun at them. Pour rire une fois.
Doesn't everyone have someone like this? Don't the Dutch take the piss
out of the Belgians too?
Yes the Dutch are crazy about Belgian jokes (they actually mean Flemish
jokes but wouldn't know the difference). Know why? Cause they're so
cheap there.
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