It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
On 2026-06-10, Peter Moylan wrote:
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
That's because they have "professor", "associate professor", &
"assistant professor"; the last two are informally abbreviated to
"professor" & the first one is sometimes informally "full professor"
to distinguish it from the abbreviated forms.
(I've never been in the army but I understand from M*A*S*H & other
such sources that "lieutenant colonel" is often abbreviated the same
way & "full colonel" used informally to make a distinction.)
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:57:02 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:
On 2026-06-10, Peter Moylan wrote:
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
That's because they have "professor", "associate professor", &
"assistant professor"; the last two are informally abbreviated to >"professor" & the first one is sometimes informally "full professor"
to distinguish it from the abbreviated forms.
When I was at university, it was before the trend for instructors - of
any level - to request or allow students to call them by the first
name. Most students called the person leading the class "Professor".
(I've never been in the army but I understand from M*A*S*H & other
such sources that "lieutenant colonel" is often abbreviated the same
way & "full colonel" used informally to make a distinction.)
A "full colonel" is informally - but routinely - called a "Bird
Colonel". The rank badge of a full colonel is an eagle holding
arrows. A lieutenant colonel's rank badge is a silver oak leaf.
Drifting a bit...Military rank reminds me of time we were sitting in
an observation car on train in 1965. (Chicago to Denver) Across the
aisle was a man in uniform. He and my wife were chatting.
At one point she asked "What brand are you?". The flummoxed man asked
what she meant, and she replied - pointing to his uniform - "What
level are you?".
"Oh", he said, "you mean 'What rank'. I'm a Brigadier General".
"That's good, isinit?" replied my wife.
I kept a straight face. I was discharged as an E-1.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:57:02 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:
On 2026-06-10, Peter Moylan wrote:
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
That's because they have "professor", "associate professor", &
"assistant professor"; the last two are informally abbreviated to >>"professor" & the first one is sometimes informally "full professor"
to distinguish it from the abbreviated forms.
When I was at university, it was before the trend for instructors - of
any level - to request or allow students to call them by the first
name. Most students called the person leading the class "Professor".
(I've never been in the army but I understand from M*A*S*H & other
such sources that "lieutenant colonel" is often abbreviated the same
way & "full colonel" used informally to make a distinction.)
A "full colonel" is informally - but routinely - called a "Bird
Colonel". The rank badge of a full colonel is an eagle holding
arrows. A lieutenant colonel's rank badge is a silver oak leaf.
Drifting a bit...Military rank reminds me of time we were sitting in
an observation car on train in 1965. (Chicago to Denver) Across the
aisle was a man in uniform. He and my wife were chatting.
At one point she asked "What brand are you?". The flummoxed man asked
what she meant, and she replied - pointing to his uniform - "What
level are you?".
"Oh", he said, "you mean 'What rank'. I'm a Brigadier General".
"That's good, isinit?" replied my wife.
I kept a straight face. I was discharged as an E-1.
Drifting a bit...Military rank reminds me of time we were sitting in
an observation car on train in 1965. (Chicago to Denver) Across the
aisle was a man in uniform. He and my wife were chatting.
At one point she asked "What brand are you?". The flummoxed man asked
what she meant, and she replied - pointing to his uniform - "What
level are you?".
"Oh", he said, "you mean 'What rank'. I'm a Brigadier General".
"That's good, isinit?" replied my wife.
I kept a straight face. I was discharged as an E-1.
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:57:02 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:
On 2026-06-10, Peter Moylan wrote:
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
That's because they have "professor", "associate professor", &
"assistant professor"; the last two are informally abbreviated to
"professor" & the first one is sometimes informally "full professor"
to distinguish it from the abbreviated forms.
When I was at university, it was before the trend for instructors - of
any level - to request or allow students to call them by the first
name. Most students called the person leading the class "Professor".
That trend was well underway when I started research. When I was an >undergraduate (1961-1964) we addressed our principal tutors as Dr Williams >and Dr Knowles, though amongst ourselves we called them Bob and Jeremy. When >I started research with Dr Knowles he said "you know what my name is" and >from then on we called him Jeremy. I don't remember when we started calling >Dr Williams Bob, but it can't have been much later. At Berkeley for my >post-doc, Dr Koshland was Dan from the beginning.
Tony Cooper hat am 10.06.2026 um 17:48 geschrieben:
Drifting a bit...Military rank reminds me of time we were sitting in
an observation car on train in 1965. (Chicago to Denver) Across the
aisle was a man in uniform. He and my wife were chatting.
At one point she asked "What brand are you?". The flummoxed man asked
what she meant, and she replied - pointing to his uniform - "What
level are you?".
"Oh", he said, "you mean 'What rank'. I'm a Brigadier General".
"That's good, isinit?" replied my wife.
I kept a straight face. I was discharged as an E-1.
Just wondering. How much were you paid per day as an E-1 and at what time? >I'm asking because I had the lowest or second-lowest rank in the Italian
army (I can't remember), when I was commanded to act as an interpreter >(unusually clever for the Italian army, as I had a university degree as
an interpreter, much cleverer than their idea I'd become a good
lorry/truck driver) for US army reserve officers at NATO manoeuvres in
1983, where we learned to fight battles as in WWI. I found out that I
got the same money as a US reserve captain. Well, almost the same money.
I mean, I really do understand that a captain deserves more money than >someone with one of the lowest ranks, but he got as much PER DAY as I
got PER MONTH - no comment!
By the way, what I got per day was just enough to buy the cheapest pizza
in town - every other day.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:54:54 GMT, athel.cb@gmail.com ><user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:57:02 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:
On 2026-06-10, Peter Moylan wrote:
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story. In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
That's because they have "professor", "associate professor", &
"assistant professor"; the last two are informally abbreviated to
"professor" & the first one is sometimes informally "full professor"
to distinguish it from the abbreviated forms.
When I was at university, it was before the trend for instructors - of
any level - to request or allow students to call them by the first
name. Most students called the person leading the class "Professor".
That trend was well underway when I started research. When I was an >>undergraduate (1961-1964) we addressed our principal tutors as Dr Williams >>and Dr Knowles, though amongst ourselves we called them Bob and Jeremy. When >>I started research with Dr Knowles he said "you know what my name is" and >>from then on we called him Jeremy. I don't remember when we started calling >>Dr Williams Bob, but it can't have been much later. At Berkeley for my >>post-doc, Dr Koshland was Dan from the beginning.
A difference in systems. In the US, a "tutor" is an individual a
student either hires or is appointed to work with to bring the student >up-to-speed in a class the student is having trouble with. Tutors can
be other students that are more proficient in the subject. There are
adult professional tutors.
In my time at two universities, I was only in a social setting with
one Professor. She invited some members of the class to a barbeque at
her home. The course was an advanced marketing class that dealt with
buying media advertising time. She invited us to the barbeque where
her guest was a VP at one of the major NYC advertising agencies. They
were classmates when she was at university.
We were instructed to call her by her first name at the barbeque, but
went back to "Professor (last name)" when back in class.
BTW...my experience is rather dated now, and based on midwestern >universities. What the elite eastern schools did or do is beyond my
ken.
I did know one invidial socially that was a Professor at UCF, but long
after I was a student anywhere. He had a Phd in physics, and
introduced himself as "Dr (last name) and had "Dr (first - last name)
on his mailbox.
Two MD doctors were in the same social group. They used to chide him
by calling him "Dr (last name)" in social conversation. The eyeroll
was subtle, but there.
Just wondering. How much were you paid per day as an E-1 and at what time? >> I'm asking because I had the lowest or second-lowest rank in the Italian
army (I can't remember), when I was commanded to act as an interpreter
(unusually clever for the Italian army, as I had a university degree as
an interpreter, much cleverer than their idea I'd become a good
lorry/truck driver) for US army reserve officers at NATO manoeuvres in
1983, where we learned to fight battles as in WWI. I found out that I
got the same money as a US reserve captain. Well, almost the same money.
I mean, I really do understand that a captain deserves more money than
someone with one of the lowest ranks, but he got as much PER DAY as I
got PER MONTH - no comment!
By the way, what I got per day was just enough to buy the cheapest pizza
in town - every other day.
I don't remember, but looking it up I find that an US Army E-1 in 1960 received $78.00 for the first four months of service, and then $83.20
a month until they are in for 48 months.
An Army Captain would be an O-3. To obtain the rank of Captain,
starting as a 2nd Lieutenant, he/she would have been in the Army for
at least 3 years and be paid over $400 a month.
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food
in those days!
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food
in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and
by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food
in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and
by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, traditional dish.
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, traditional dish.
Italy is bigger than Denmark and its many regional cuisines started
merging only after WWII.
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
In Milan, on the other hand, it was rather exotic when I was a child.
But then, I was a friend of the daughter of the owner of the first ever Tuscan restaurant in Milan. She'd be almost 90, if she were still alive.
Tony Cooper hat am 10.06.2026 um 22:31 geschrieben:
Just wondering. How much were you paid per day as an E-1 and at what time? >>> I'm asking because I had the lowest or second-lowest rank in the Italian >>> army (I can't remember), when I was commanded to act as an interpreter
(unusually clever for the Italian army, as I had a university degree as
an interpreter, much cleverer than their idea I'd become a good
lorry/truck driver) for US army reserve officers at NATO manoeuvres in
1983, where we learned to fight battles as in WWI. I found out that I
got the same money as a US reserve captain. Well, almost the same money. >>> I mean, I really do understand that a captain deserves more money than
someone with one of the lowest ranks, but he got as much PER DAY as I
got PER MONTH - no comment!
By the way, what I got per day was just enough to buy the cheapest pizza >>> in town - every other day.
I don't remember, but looking it up I find that an US Army E-1 in 1960
received $78.00 for the first four months of service, and then $83.20
a month until they are in for 48 months.
$ 78.00 per month = $ 2.60 per day. How much did a burger (or the
cheapest food outside the barracks) cost at that time?
An Army Captain would be an O-3. To obtain the rank of Captain,
starting as a 2nd Lieutenant, he/she would have been in the Army for
at least 3 years and be paid over $400 a month.
About 5 times as much as an E-1. Much more reasonable difference than 30 >times more, IMHO.
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food
in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and
by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
THe first slice of pizza I ever had was in the main station of Milan
in 1964. I don't remember how it compared with the pizzas one
encounters nowadays, but I have a feeling that I wasn't impressed.
That trend was well underway when I started research. When I was an undergraduate (1961-1964) we addressed our principal tutors as Dr Williams and Dr Knowles, though amongst ourselves we called them Bob and Jeremy. When I started research with Dr Knowles he said "you know what my name is" and from then on we called him Jeremy. I don't remember when we started calling Dr Williams Bob, but it can't have been much later. At Berkeley for my post-doc, Dr Koshland was Dan from the beginning.
On 12/06/26 03:53, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
THe first slice of pizza I ever had was in the main station of Milan
in 1964. I don't remember how it compared with the pizzas one
encounters nowadays, but I have a feeling that I wasn't impressed.
Pizza came to Australia in 1961, but I wasn't aware of it until 1965,
when I went as a student to Melbourne University. The university is
directly adjacent to Carlton, a Melbourne suburb which was at the time
the Italian centre of Melbourne. (To some extent, it still is.) We used
to walk down to the pizza restaurant and watch the cooks spinning up the >pizza dough so that it almost hit the ceiling. We rarely went inside; >students weren't rich enough to afford restaurant meals.
On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 09:14:05 +1000, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
On 12/06/26 03:53, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
THe first slice of pizza I ever had was in the main station of Milan
in 1964. I don't remember how it compared with the pizzas one
encounters nowadays, but I have a feeling that I wasn't impressed.
Pizza came to Australia in 1961, but I wasn't aware of it until 1965,
when I went as a student to Melbourne University. The university is
directly adjacent to Carlton, a Melbourne suburb which was at the time
the Italian centre of Melbourne. (To some extent, it still is.) We used
to walk down to the pizza restaurant and watch the cooks spinning up the
pizza dough so that it almost hit the ceiling. We rarely went inside;
students weren't rich enough to afford restaurant meals.
The most recognized name in pizza in the US is Pizza Hut. The first
one was opened in 1958 in Witchita, Kansas, but there are now almost
20,000 franchised locations.
Tony Cooper speculated:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 09:14:05 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
On 12/06/26 03:53, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
THe first slice of pizza I ever had was in the main station of
Milan in 1964. I don't remember how it compared with the
pizzas one encounters nowadays, but I have a feeling that I
wasn't impressed.
Pizza came to Australia in 1961, but I wasn't aware of it until
1965, when I went as a student to Melbourne University. The
university is directly adjacent to Carlton, a Melbourne suburb
which was at the time the Italian centre of Melbourne. (To some
extent, it still is.) We used to walk down to the pizza
restaurant and watch the cooks spinning up the pizza dough so
that it almost hit the ceiling. We rarely went inside; students
weren't rich enough to afford restaurant meals.
The most recognized name in pizza in the US is Pizza Hut. The
first one was opened in 1958 in Witchita, Kansas, but there are
now almost 20,000 franchised locations.
The number of sit-down places, which today would be considered "fast
casual", has shrunk and the proportion of pick-up/delivery locations
is high. The second most recognized brand would be, AIUI, either
Domino's or Little Caesar's, neither of which do sit-down.
A handful of Chuckie Cheese locations remain, which is the playzone
with pizza.
Drifting a bit...Military rank reminds me of time we were sitting in
an observation car on train in 1965. (Chicago to Denver) Across the
aisle was a man in uniform. He and my wife were chatting.
At one point she asked "What brand are you?". The flummoxed man asked
what she meant, and she replied - pointing to his uniform - "What
level are you?".
"Oh", he said, "you mean 'What rank'. I'm a Brigadier General".
"That's good, isinit?" replied my wife.
I kept a straight face. I was discharged as an E-1.
Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> posted:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
Italy is bigger than Denmark and its many regional cuisines started
merging only after WWII.
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
In Milan, on the other hand, it was rather exotic when I was a child.
But then, I was a friend of the daughter of the owner of the first ever
Tuscan restaurant in Milan. She'd be almost 90, if she were still alive.
THe first slice of pizza I ever had was in the main station of Milan in 1964.
I don't remember how it compared with the pizzas one encounters nowadays, but I have a feeling that I wasn't impressed.
Some years before that my mother took what was supposed to be a course of Italian cooking, but I suspect that the woman who taught it didn't know much more about Italian cuisine than my mother did. One night we had what she called
a Pisa (presumably the pronunciation the teacher used) for dinner. I don't think it had anything much in common with what you'd call a pizza.
The most recognized name in pizza in the US is Pizza Hut. The first
one was opened in 1958 in Witchita, Kansas, but there are now almost
20,000 franchised locations.
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
On 10/06/26 20:21, occam wrote:
I was pondering the difference between 'a professor' v. 'a teacher' .
In modern usage a teacher is regarded as the one with the lowlier
status.
Going back to source - the definition of the verbs 'to profess' and
'to teach' - teaching is (in my opinion) the more valued of the two
functions. You impart your knowledge (teach), rather than to declare
it publicly (profess).
https://comparewords.com/profess/teach
NOTE: The Greek word for teacher is 'didaskalos' (+|+|+|+4-a+|+#++++-e). The >> ancient Greeks, who valued their teachers highly, did not have a
word for 'professor'. Somewhere along the way, a professor became a
high-level teacher.
Baffled of Byzantium
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story.
In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
Still, your point is valid. We tend to reserve "teacher" for teachers in primary and secondary schools.
I can think of one reason that drove the change in terminology.
University academics have two duties: teaching and research. (Plus administration, which consumes more time than the other two combined,
but is not recognised officially.) Promotion depends almost entirely on
one's research record, so the teaching aspect is less rewarded. You
can't be a professor without a distinguished research record. That's the "profess" part of the job.
Hardly anyone cares about whether a professor is a good teacher. In
fact, students tend to give higher ratings to the more junior ranks.
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
On 10 Jun 2026 at 11:50:40 BST, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/06/26 20:21, occam wrote:
I was pondering the difference between 'a professor' v. 'a teacher' .
In modern usage a teacher is regarded as the one with the lowlier
status.
Going back to source - the definition of the verbs 'to profess' and
'to teach' - teaching is (in my opinion) the more valued of the two
functions. You impart your knowledge (teach), rather than to declare
it publicly (profess).
https://comparewords.com/profess/teach
NOTE: The Greek word for teacher is 'didaskalos' (+|+|+|+4-a+|+#++++-e). The
ancient Greeks, who valued their teachers highly, did not have a
word for 'professor'. Somewhere along the way, a professor became a
high-level teacher.
Baffled of Byzantium
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are exceptions, but that's the general story.
Much the same in UK universities - at least post 92s.
In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
It's more a salutation that an official title in the US. And I'm not sure whether something got lost in translation, but even humble lecturers tend to get called 'professor' in most of the non-English speaking countries I've been
to.
Still, your point is valid. We tend to reserve "teacher" for teachers in primary and secondary schools.
I can think of one reason that drove the change in terminology.
University academics have two duties: teaching and research. (Plus administration, which consumes more time than the other two combined,
but is not recognised officially.) Promotion depends almost entirely on one's research record, so the teaching aspect is less rewarded. You
can't be a professor without a distinguished research record. That's the "profess" part of the job.
Not in post 92s - professorships given out like sweets. At one time you just had to have the bare-faced, shameless, temerity to ask at the place I worked*.
Hardly anyone cares about whether a professor is a good teacher. In
fact, students tend to give higher ratings to the more junior ranks.
Tended to be an inverse relationship IME.
* well, I exaggerate. A bit.
It's more a salutation that an official title in the US. And I'm not sure whether something got lost in translation, but even humble lecturers tend to get called 'professor' in most of the non-English speaking countries I've been
to.
Den 22.06.2026 kl. 10.19 skrev RJH:
It's more a salutation that an official title in the US. And I'm not sure whether something got lost in translation, but even humble lecturers tend to
get called 'professor' in most of the non-English speaking countries I've been
to.
I asked my Spanish teacher what a retired school teacher was called in Spanish, and she answered "professor jubilado".
Well maybe. Before I left Birmingham in 1987 there were never more than four >professors in my large department, with about 30 staff. In later years they >seemed to hand out personal chairs to just about anyone who had been there >more than a year or two and could write their names.
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef
Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a
pizza?
On 10 Jun 2026 at 11:50:40 BST, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/06/26 20:21, occam wrote:
I was pondering the difference between 'a professor' v. 'a teacher' .
In modern usage a teacher is regarded as the one with the lowlier
status.
Going back to source - the definition of the verbs 'to profess' and
'to teach' - teaching is (in my opinion) the more valued of the two
functions. You impart your knowledge (teach), rather than to declare
it publicly (profess).
https://comparewords.com/profess/teach
NOTE: The Greek word for teacher is 'didaskalos' (??????????). The
ancient Greeks, who valued their teachers highly, did not have a
word for 'professor'. Somewhere along the way, a professor became a
high-level teacher.
Baffled of Byzantium
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story.
Much the same in UK universities - at least post 92s.
In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
It's more a salutation that an official title in the US. And I'm not sure >whether something got lost in translation, but even humble lecturers tend to >get called 'professor' in most of the non-English speaking countries I've been >to.
On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 08:19:22 -0000 (UTC), RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 11:50:40 BST, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/06/26 20:21, occam wrote:
I was pondering the difference between 'a professor' v. 'a teacher' .
In modern usage a teacher is regarded as the one with the lowlier
status.
Going back to source - the definition of the verbs 'to profess' and
'to teach' - teaching is (in my opinion) the more valued of the two
functions. You impart your knowledge (teach), rather than to declare
it publicly (profess).
https://comparewords.com/profess/teach
NOTE: The Greek word for teacher is 'didaskalos' (??????????). The
ancient Greeks, who valued their teachers highly, did not have a
word for 'professor'. Somewhere along the way, a professor became a
high-level teacher.
Baffled of Byzantium
It does vary by country. In an Australian university, there is
traditionally only one professor in a department; the most senior
academic in that department. The other academics have titles like
reader, associate professor, senior lecturer, lecturer. There are
exceptions, but that's the general story.
Much the same in UK universities - at least post 92s.
In an American university,
many more people are called professors.
It's more a salutation that an official title in the US. And I'm not sure >whether something got lost in translation, but even humble lecturers tend to >get called 'professor' in most of the non-English speaking countries I've been
to.
In some Spanish-speaking coutries, it seems, even primary and
secondary school teachers are referred to as "professors".
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and >>>>>> by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old,
traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200 >>>> years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a
pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food >>>>>>>> in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, and
by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, >>>>>> traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200 >>>>> years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a
pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a pizza?
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
As for 'pizza', if this is one, so is every other decorated
piece of flat bread, like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
On 24/06/26 17:44, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
As for 'pizza', if this is one, so is every other decorated
piece of flat bread, like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
Pizza is just the Italian word for "pie". Apparently the Italians from
one region liked pies of a certain kind, and their recipe got exported
to other countries. No doubt there are other regions with different
kinds of
pizze, but we didn't get to hear about those.
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign >>>>>>>>> food in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the Eighties, >>>>>>>> and by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, >>>>>>> traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about 200 >>>>>> years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a >>>> pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
On 24/06/26 17:44, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
As for 'pizza', if this is one, so is every other decorated
piece of flat bread, like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
Pizza is just the Italian word for "pie". Apparently the Italians from
one region liked pies of a certain kind, and their recipe got exported
to other countries. No doubt there are other regions with different
kinds of
pizze, but we didn't get to hear about those.
On Wednesday, Adam Funk queried:
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town?-a In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic >>>>>>>>>> foreign food in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the
Eighties, and by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, >>>>>>>> traditional dish.
-a From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish,
about 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for >>>>>> pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae'-a has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a >>>>> pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
Next: calzone
On 24/06/2026 19:53, Snidely wrote:
On Wednesday, Adam Funk queried:
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, >>>>>>>>> traditional dish.Pizza in town?a In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign >>>>>>>>>>> food in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the >>>>>>>>>> Eighties, and by then we had pizzerias all over the country. >>>>>>>>>
a From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about >>>>>>>> 200
years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for >>>>>>> pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae'a has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or >>>>>> possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a >>>>>> pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
Next: calzone
Pass. We don't have zoning laws like the US.
On 24/06/2026 10:40 p.m., Peter Moylan wrote:
On 24/06/26 17:44, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2026-06-23, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
As for 'pizza', if this is one, so is every other decorated
piece of flat bread, like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
Well, pizza is a kind of open-faced sandwich, right?
Pizza is just the Italian word for "pie". Apparently the Italians from
one region liked pies of a certain kind, and their recipe got exported
to other countries. No doubt there are other regions with different
kinds of
pizze, but we didn't get to hear about those.
Hmm. "Pie", for English speakers, is a pastry with some sort of filling.
My tiny Italian dictionary gives "torta" and "pasticcio" as translations
for "pie". "Pizza" seems more likely related to "pitta", a kind of flatbread. This site gives some more detail, and references a journal article (in Italian) which I'm not about to go looking for.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030115224054/http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/pizza.html
On 23/06/2026 07:59, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 08:05, occam wrote:
On 11/06/2026 19:37, Silvano wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen hat am 11.06.2026 um 18:30 geschrieben:<snip>
Den 11.06.2026 kl. 18.12 skrev Silvano:
Pizza in town? In any town near Ft Leonard Wood, Missouri, Chef >>>>>>> Boyardee's Spaghetti-Os would have been considered exotic foreign food
in those days!
In most of Italy too, in 1960. But I was talking about the
Eighties, and by then we had pizzerias all over the country.
Is pazza a recent invention in Italy? I thought that it was an old, >>>>> traditional dish.
From that page:
In and near Naples, pizza is indeed an old, traditional dish, about
200 years old in its present form, as you can read here:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza>.
"Another term for this type of flatbread was placentae (a term for
pastries of flour, cheese, oil, and honey)."
'Placentae' has come a long way since ancient Greek times.
I thought there was a wall mozaic discovered recently at Pompei (or
possibly Herculaneum) which showed something which looked quite like a
pizza?
Isn't a 'wall moziac' something like a contradiction in terms?
(for Roman times)
Anyway, it is a painting.
As for 'pizza', if this is one,
so is every other decorated piece of flat bread,
like a focaccia for example,
This is perilously close to starting a thread akin to the great
"What is (and what is not) a sandwich."
On 25/06/2026 9:29 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
Hmm. "Pie", for English speakers, is a pastry with some sort of filling.
My tiny Italian dictionary gives "torta" and "pasticcio" as translations
for "pie". "Pizza" seems more likely related to "pitta", a kind of
flatbread. This site gives some more detail, and references a journal
article (in Italian) which I'm not about to go looking for.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030115224054/http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/pizza.html
Oh well, here's OED:
< Italian regional (Naples) pizza (1531), of uncertain origin,
apparently originally from the region of Abruzzo and its vicinity;
perhaps < an unattested Langobardic cognate of Old High German bizzo
bite, piece bitten off, morsel, lump, cake made of flour (see bit n.2 & adj.2). Compare post-classical Latin piza, pizza flat bread (from 997 in central Italian sources; also in 14th cent. as pissa), flat bread, apparently with a topping of cheese (14th cent. in central Italian
sources). Compare pitta n.2
Etymology of pitta n.2 ("A flat, hollow, slightly leavened bread--
originally common in Middle Eastern countriesis...") is much messier,
though the action centers on the Balkan region. Apart from the Germanic (Langobardic) theory mentioned in the above link, ultimate origins have
been proposed in long-extinct Illyrian (ancestor of Albanian?) and Old Aramaic.
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