• In a political context, how far is 'far'?

    From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 12:34:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

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  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 17:02:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 16/05/2026 |a 12:34, Sn!pe a |-crit :

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.


    All I know is it's a spectrum, ranging from ultra-violent to infra-dig.

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  • From Tony Cooper@tonycooper214@gmail.com to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 13:02:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 17:02:41 +0100, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    Le 16/05/2026 a 12:34, Sn!pe a ocrit :

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.


    All I know is it's a spectrum, ranging from ultra-violent to infra-dig.

    My observation is that a person is described as "right wing" by a
    another person who agrees with "right wing" positions. That same
    person is described as being "far right" by a person who does not
    agree with "right wing" positions.

    The difference between "right" and "far right" depends on the
    describer's view of the acceptability of "right wing" positions.


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  • From Sam Plusnet@not@home.com to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 20:23:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 16/05/2026 12:34, Sn!pe wrote:
    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.

    Just like saying "It's over there."
    The meaning depends on where you are standing.
    --
    Sam Plusnet
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  • From Marco Moock@mm@dorfdsl.de to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 21:57:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Am 16.05.26 um 13:34 schrieb Sn!pe:
    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.

    This heavily depends on the author and the intention of the text.
    --
    Gru|f
    Marco

    Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
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  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to alt.usage.english on Sat May 16 23:37:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Ar an s|-|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh Tony Cooper:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 17:02:41 +0100, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    Le 16/05/2026 |a 12:34, Sn!pe a |-crit :

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.


    All I know is it's a spectrum, ranging from ultra-violent to infra-dig.

    My observation is that a person is described as "right wing" by a
    another person who agrees with "right wing" positions. That same
    person is described as being "far right" by a person who does not
    agree with "right wing" positions.

    The difference between "right" and "far right" depends on the
    describer's view of the acceptability of "right wing" positions.

    Yes; as it probably should. I was struck while in staying in Comber, a very orange town outside Belfast, by this monument: https://discovernorthernireland.com/listing/rollo-gillespie-monument/67638101/

    and in particular this inscription on it:

    rCLThis tablet, having remained blank since the erection of the monument seems
    fitting to the Masonic body and townsmen of Comber, recorded on it that the
    brilliant reputation of Sir Rollo was most worthily maintained by his
    grandson rCo

    Major General Robert Rollo Gillespie C.B.

    Who for over forty years served his country with the same bravery and
    fidelity as his illustrious ancestor, and won distinction at the following
    places

    Reshire, Bushire, Koosab, Kolapore, El Magfar, Tel-El-Mahuta, Kassassin,
    Tel-El-Kebir, Bikanir.

    He died on the 17th Nov 1890, in command of the Mhow Division of the Bombay
    Army.rCY

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
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  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 09:44:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner. I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this
    from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 08:40:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 12:34:48 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.

    Depending on where the centre is, it's whatever is farther from it.

    Cf "extremism".

    Consider "conservative" -- usually regarded as being at the centre or
    the near right.

    On the left you have "radical" and on the far left you have
    "revoltionary"

    To the right of "conservative" you have "reactionary", which is the
    far right.

    That's on the political change axis.

    Conservatives want change to be gradual, and take the attitude of "if
    it ain't broke, don't fix it".

    Radicals say "it's broke, and needs a complete overhaul".

    Revolutionaries say "toss it out and get a new one".

    Reactionaries say "put it back the way it was" -- restore the status
    quo ante.

    On the economic scale, at the far tight you have laissez faire, and at
    the far left you have the Trots. Amd a mixed economy crowd in the
    middle.

    &C &C
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 17:29:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 16/05/26 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'? Ditto 'the
    left'.

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest
    that Labour is a centrist party.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be
    centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
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  • From Bertel Lund Hansen@rundtosset@lundhansen.dk to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 10:03:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Den 17.05.2026 kl. 08.40 skrev Steve Hayes:

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'?
    Ditto 'the left'.

    Depending on where the centre is, it's whatever is farther from it.

    It also depends on history. I'll remind you of a Danish political party
    which is called (translated) "the Radical Left". Politically it's center
    party (which would make them a bit left seen from USA).

    The party evolved from the party "Left" which was a leftwing party at
    the time where peasants lived pretty much like slaves.
    --
    Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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  • From Bertel Lund Hansen@rundtosset@lundhansen.dk to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 10:06:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Den 17.05.2026 kl. 09.29 skrev Peter Moylan:

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest
    that Labour is a centrist party.

    Or maybe that left-center-right hasn't got the importance it used to
    have? Maybe people react on specific causes.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    I'd like to know how many Sirs there are in the UK Parliament.
    --
    Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From athel.cb@gmail.com@user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 10:22:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> posted:

    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner.

    When I went to a conference in Torino I was struck by how little it resembled any other Italian city I had seen.

    I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this
    from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.

    --
    athel

    Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
    with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 14:29:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    <athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

    Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> posted:

    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if you're reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner.

    When I went to a conference in Torino I was struck by how little it resembled any other Italian city I had seen.

    Not too surprising. They were Burgondians, really,
    deep down in history.
    Just like most of Eastern France
    and parts of Western Switzerland,

    Jan

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  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 13:57:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Le 17/05/2026 |a 09:06, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
    Den 17.05.2026 kl. 09.29 skrev Peter Moylan:

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be
    centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    I'd like to know how many Sirs there are in the UK Parliament.


    Sirs or curs?

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  • From Silvano@Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 15:28:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2026 um 01:44 geschrieben:
    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an
    inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner. I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this
    from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.


    If that room had 500 seats or more, it must be "la sala dei 500".

    The article is important in this context. Before you mentioned that you
    counted the seats, I thought the name referred to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Nuova_500>, the first car I sat in
    as a small child. The more so because we're talking about a room in
    Turin, the seat of FIAT.
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  • From richard@richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 13:37:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <10ubqph$1goop$1@dont-email.me>,
    Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest
    that Labour is a centrist party.

    It's a centre-left party.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be >centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    In this case, it's because Keir Starmer is a former Director of Public Prosecutions.

    -- Richard
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From athel.cb@gmail.com@user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 14:15:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> posted:

    Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2026 um 01:44 geschrieben:
    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an
    inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner. I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.


    If that room had 500 seats or more, it must be "la sala dei 500".

    The article is important in this context. Before you mentioned that you counted the seats, I thought the name referred to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Nuova_500>, the first car I sat in
    as a small child. The more so because we're talking about a room in
    Turin, the seat of FIAT.

    Interesting that you, an Italian, call it by its French and English name, whereas
    Peter, an Australian, used the Italian name. (If I had been starting the thread myself I would have called it Turin.)

    When we were there we stayed in the hotel that forms part of the FIAT building, which has a testing circuit on the roof.
    --
    athel

    Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
    with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 16:17:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

    Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2026 um 01:44 geschrieben:
    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an
    inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if you're reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner. I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.


    If that room had 500 seats or more, it must be "la sala dei 500".

    The article is important in this context. Before you mentioned that you counted the seats, I thought the name referred to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Nuova_500>, the first car I sat in
    as a small child. The more so because we're talking about a room in
    Turin, the seat of FIAT.

    I would guess that it refers to the century,
    so to the Renaissance,

    Jan
    --
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinquecento>
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 17:23:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 17:29:49 +1000, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
    wrote:

    On 16/05/26 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'? Ditto 'the
    left'.

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest
    that Labour is a centrist party.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be >centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    I think in the UK the Lib-dems are the centrist party. On the right
    are the Conservatives and Labour (Tweedledum and Tweedledee) and on
    the far Right is Reform.

    On the Left are the Green Party and Your Party, and on the far Left
    the Communist Party and probably a few smaller groups with the last
    name "Tendency".

    I'm not sure about the regional parties, SNP, Plaid Cymru et al.

    Per haps someone from the UK can correct me.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 17:28:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I think in the UK the Lib-dems are the centrist party. On the right
    are the Conservatives and Labour (Tweedledum and Tweedledee)
    and on the far Right is Reform.


    New Labour, Blair's party, was further to the right than the Tories
    but you can hardly say that of Labour today, which seems to be
    yearning for the leftist politics of days gone by. You certainly cannot
    call the likes of Angela Rayner rightward leaning.

    While I agree that Reform is further to the right than the Tories,
    I wouldn't call them far right; that slur should be reserved for the
    likes of Tommy Robinson and his ilk in the British National Party
    or the English Defence League.

    To me, the 'far right' and 'far left' are those who advocate civil
    disorder as a tool of policy.


    On the Left are the Green Party and Your Party, and on the far Left
    the Communist Party and probably a few smaller groups with the last
    name "Tendency".


    Agreed. Where do you place Islamist politics in this spectrum?
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From richard@richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 20:41:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <1rv9jz6.fhweta1l50ufoN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
    Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:

    New Labour, Blair's party, was further to the right than the Tories

    How do you make that out? Can you give an example of a policy they
    had that was to the right of the Tories'?

    -- Richard
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to alt.usage.english on Sun May 17 22:30:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

    In article <1rv9jz6.fhweta1l50ufoN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
    Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:

    New Labour, Blair's party, was further to the right than the Tories

    How do you make that out? Can you give an example of a policy they
    had that was to the right of the Tories'?

    -- Richard

    Ah. I'm going to come clean right away - I was retailing received
    wisdom. To be honest, I'm not really very interested in arguing that particular point; my question is about parties at the extreme ends of
    the political spectrum and at what point they deserve the description
    /far/ left or right.

    Blair's 'New Labour' wasn't 'far anything' very much except the usual politicians' personal vices of desiring power, money, and/or notoriety.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 10:29:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/05/26 01:23, Steve Hayes wrote:

    I think in the UK the Lib-dems are the centrist party. On the right
    are the Conservatives and Labour (Tweedledum and Tweedledee) and on
    the far Right is Reform.

    On the Left are the Green Party and Your Party, and on the far Left
    the Communist Party and probably a few smaller groups with the last
    name "Tendency".

    I'm not sure about the regional parties, SNP, Plaid Cymru et al.

    It's interesting, and a little disturbing, to see the trends here. In
    Australia the Australian Labor Party has traditionally been left-wing,
    but in the latest evaluation by The Political Compass it shows up as
    right of centre.

    On the left we have the Greens and not much else. There's a Socialist
    Alliance party, but it's never won a seat. The three communist parties
    have almost sunk into oblivion.

    The dominant party on the right has always been the Liberal Party, which
    has been in government quite often, but over the last couple of years
    the Liberals have run a dedicated campaign of shooting themselves in the
    foot, and they are becoming weaker and weaker. In a recent by-election,
    a seat that has been held by the Liberals for many years was won by One
    Nation, our only openly racist party.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 02:54:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 17:28:21 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I think in the UK the Lib-dems are the centrist party. On the right
    are the Conservatives and Labour (Tweedledum and Tweedledee)
    and on the far Right is Reform.


    New Labour, Blair's party, was further to the right than the Tories
    but you can hardly say that of Labour today, which seems to be
    yearning for the leftist politics of days gone by. You certainly cannot
    call the likes of Angela Rayner rightward leaning.

    While I agree that Reform is further to the right than the Tories,
    I wouldn't call them far right; that slur should be reserved for the
    likes of Tommy Robinson and his ilk in the British National Party
    or the English Defence League.

    On the "change" scale, those would probably be far left. They want radical/revolutionary change.

    Reform could go that way too, depending on how Trumpish they get if
    they ever come to power.

    To me, the 'far right' and 'far left' are those who advocate civil
    disorder as a tool of policy.


    On the Left are the Green Party and Your Party, and on the far Left
    the Communist Party and probably a few smaller groups with the last
    name "Tendency".


    Agreed. Where do you place Islamist politics in this spectrum?

    In the UK, probably radical or revolutionarY, so left to far left. On
    the change spectrum, they want to change the system to to fit with an
    Islamist conception of the way things ought to be.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 03:16:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On Sun, 17 May 2026 20:41:12 -0000 (UTC), richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
    (Richard Tobin) wrote:

    In article <1rv9jz6.fhweta1l50ufoN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
    Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:

    New Labour, Blair's party, was further to the right than the Tories

    How do you make that out? Can you give an example of a policy they
    had that was to the right of the Tories'?

    On the change scale, no. On the authoritarian/libertarian scale, yes.
    Under Blair they wanted to intoduce detention without trial, and the
    UK media acclaimed that as "the moral high ground" -- see here:

    <https://khanya.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/the-nine-hippies-of-tarnac/>
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bertel Lund Hansen@rundtosset@lundhansen.dk to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 07:48:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Den 18.05.2026 kl. 02.29 skrev Peter Moylan:

    On the left we have the Greens and not much else. There's a Socialist Alliance party, but it's never won a seat. The three communist parties
    have almost sunk into oblivion.

    They need to unite. That happened in Denmark where "The Unit list" has
    6,3% of the seats in Folketinget.
    --
    Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Silvano@Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 09:01:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    athel.cb@gmail.com hat am 17.05.2026 um 16:15 geschrieben:

    Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> posted:

    Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2026 um 01:44 geschrieben:
    On 17/05/26 08:37, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

    Pride in minor imperial skirmishes like this, to the point that an
    inscription on a monument central to a town goes up, is something
    very foreign to most modern western societies. Worth keeping in mind
    if yourCOre reading something from Britain in the late nineteenth
    century, or presumably from Japan in 1930, that the degrees of
    left-wing vs right-wing will be very different to today.

    I was once at a conference in Torino, and I was struck by the fact that
    the city had a statue at practically every street corner. I tried
    reading some of the inscriptions, and my overall impression was that
    these statues commemorated events that everyone (except maybe the
    locals) had forgotten by now.

    Many of the conference sessions were held in a place called "La sala
    della cinquecento". (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm doing this
    from memory.) I kept expecting to hear an explanation of how the
    glorious five hundred defended the city from an invader, but no
    explanation was forthcoming.

    It wasn't until the last day of the conference that I thought to count
    the seats.


    If that room had 500 seats or more, it must be "la sala dei 500".

    The article is important in this context. Before you mentioned that you
    counted the seats, I thought the name referred to
    <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Nuova_500>, the first car I sat in
    as a small child. The more so because we're talking about a room in
    Turin, the seat of FIAT.

    Interesting that you, an Italian, call it by its French and English name, whereas
    Peter, an Australian, used the Italian name. (If I had been starting the thread myself I would have called it Turin.)


    I found Peter's choice strange, too. Which language are we using here in
    AUE? It's Torino, of course, when you write in Italian. People writing
    in English, French and German will normally write Turin and pronounce it
    in three rather different ways. Tur|!n in Spanish and Turyn in Polish.
    For more variants, you can go to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino>,
    click on "153 lingue" and move the arrow to the language you want.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Peter Moylan@peter@pmoylan.org to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 17:19:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    On 18/05/26 17:01, Silvano wrote:
    athel.cb@gmail.com hat am 17.05.2026 um 16:15 geschrieben:

    Interesting that you, an Italian, call it by its French and English
    name, whereas Peter, an Australian, used the Italian name. (If I
    had been starting the thread myself I would have called it Turin.)

    I found Peter's choice strange, too. Which language are we using here
    in AUE? It's Torino, of course, when you write in Italian. People
    writing in English, French and German will normally write Turin and
    pronounce it in three rather different ways. Tur|!n in Spanish and
    Turyn in Polish. For more variants, you can go to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino>, click on "153 lingue" and
    move the arrow to the language you want.

    I tend to wander back and forth between the names, with no real pattern.
    Except in the case of Turkey, for which I use the English name most of
    the time.
    --
    Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From athel.cb@gmail.com@user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 07:48:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english


    Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> posted:

    On 18/05/26 17:01, Silvano wrote:
    athel.cb@gmail.com hat am 17.05.2026 um 16:15 geschrieben:

    Interesting that you, an Italian, call it by its French and English
    name, whereas Peter, an Australian, used the Italian name. (If I
    had been starting the thread myself I would have called it Turin.)

    I found Peter's choice strange, too. Which language are we using here
    in AUE? It's Torino, of course, when you write in Italian. People
    writing in English, French and German will normally write Turin and pronounce it in three rather different ways. Tur|!n in Spanish and
    Turyn in Polish. For more variants, you can go to <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino>, click on "153 lingue" and
    move the arrow to the language you want.

    I tend to wander back and forth between the names, with no real pattern. Except in the case of Turkey, for which I use the English name most of
    the time.

    Turkey is clear: I shall never write it the way Mr Erdo-fan has decreed. Rumania and Luxemburg are more arguable. But of course, we all change: no
    one (including me) still refers to the Argentine, the Lebanon or the Ukraine. I'm not sure if it's resolved now, but some years ago the Mexicans were unhappy that their country was called M|-jico in Spain.
    --
    athel

    Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
    with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From richard@richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 10:31:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <brok0lpmktc00n5c2ntq250ouqof4eprrk@4ax.com>,
    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

    On the change scale, no. On the authoritarian/libertarian scale, yes.
    Under Blair they wanted to intoduce detention without trial, and the
    UK media acclaimed that as "the moral high ground" -- see here:

    "The UK media" doesn't do anything. Some newspaper might have said that,
    but in fact all I can find is the BBC reporting that Blair was "trying
    to occupy the moral high ground", which is describing Blair's view of
    the matter, not theirs.

    -- Richard
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Janet@nobody@home.com to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 16:04:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <10ubqph$1goop$1@dont-email.me>, peter@pmoylan.org says...

    On 16/05/26 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:

    In a political context, how far is 'far'? Is it just hyperbole?

    At what point does 'the right' become 'the far right'? Ditto 'the
    left'.

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters,

    Those are references to the Greens and Reform.


    and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest
    that Labour is a centrist party

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    No, they are not. Nor for aristocrats.

    Knighthoods are granted for major, long-term contributions and
    inspirational achievements at a national level. Recipients are entitled
    to use the title "Sir" before their forename, with the female equivalent
    being "Dame"

    Famous Knights include sportsmen, teachers, actors, authors and
    scientists. Keir Starmer (son of a nurse and toolmaker) was knighted in
    2014 for a 30 year career in"services to law and criminal justice". He
    had been a human rights lawyer, then Director of Public Prosecutions and
    head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

    IOW, he was a Sir before he first stood for election to become a Labour
    MP.


    Janet UK
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Janet@nobody@home.com to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 16:24:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    In article <10ubsus$1h2vb$3@dont-email.me>, rundtosset@lundhansen.dk
    says...

    Den 17.05.2026 kl. 09.29 skrev Peter Moylan:

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest that Labour is a centrist party.

    Or maybe that left-center-right hasn't got the importance it used to
    have? Maybe people react on specific causes.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    I'd like to know how many Sirs there are in the UK Parliament.

    Sir Keir Starmer (Prime Minister)
    Sir Lindsay Hoyle (Speaker of the House of Commons)
    Sir Alan Campbell
    Sir Chris Bryant
    Sir Bill Cash
    Sir Roger Gale
    Sir Jeremy Hunt
    Sir Julian Lewis
    Sir Andrew Mitchell
    Sir Alec Shelbrooke
    Sir Desmond Swayne
    Sir Mark Tami
    Sir Stephen Timms

    Then there's the Dames

    Janet
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Silvano@Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it to alt.usage.english on Mon May 18 21:37:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.usage.english

    Janet hat am 18.05.2026 um 17:24 geschrieben:
    In article <10ubsus$1h2vb$3@dont-email.me>, rundtosset@lundhansen.dk
    says...

    Den 17.05.2026 kl. 09.29 skrev Peter Moylan:

    Some commentary I saw on the recent UK election said that both the left
    and the right gained voters, and Labour lost them. That seems to suggest >>> that Labour is a centrist party.

    Or maybe that left-center-right hasn't got the importance it used to
    have? Maybe people react on specific causes.

    I find it had to believe that a party whose leader is a "Sir" can be
    centrist. Such titles are reserved for the wealthy.

    I'd like to know how many Sirs there are in the UK Parliament.

    Sir Keir Starmer (Prime Minister)
    Sir Lindsay Hoyle (Speaker of the House of Commons)
    Sir Alan Campbell
    Sir Chris Bryant
    Sir Bill Cash
    Sir Roger Gale
    Sir Jeremy Hunt
    Sir Julian Lewis
    Sir Andrew Mitchell
    Sir Alec Shelbrooke
    Sir Desmond Swayne
    Sir Mark Tami
    Sir Stephen Timms

    Then there's the Dames


    Question from abroad.
    Is the UK Parliament only the House of Commons? What about the House of
    Lords?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2