Because housing developments expanded in the suburbs of many Florida
cities before sewage lines were extended by the city, there are a
lot of Florida homes with septic tanks.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool
Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also
included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
William could tell you about it, as could the Lone Dustman.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
On 09/05/26 11:33, Sn!pe wrote:
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also
included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
William could tell you about it, as could the Lone Dustman.
Most people know the Lone Ranger Overture. Fewer know about William.
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
William could tell you about it, as could the Lone Dustman.
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) posted:
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:My old man's a dustman,
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also
included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
William could tell you about it, as could the Lone Dustman.
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Because housing developments expanded in the suburbs of many Florida
cities before sewage lines were extended by the city, there are a lot
of Florida homes with septic tanks.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool Bus".
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also included some musical notes.
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Because housing developments expanded in the suburbs of many Florida
cities before sewage lines were extended by the city, there are a lot
of Florida homes with septic tanks.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
On 09/05/26 08:05, Tony Cooper wrote:
Because housing developments expanded in the suburbs of many Florida
cities before sewage lines were extended by the city, there are a
lot of Florida homes with septic tanks.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool
Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
On 09/05/2026 03:52, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 09/05/26 11:33, Sn!pe wrote:
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the >>>> dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also >>>> included some musical notes.
Strangely, I only saw it the once. Presumably it is still somewhere
around Newcastle, but it must be in areas that I don't visit.
William could tell you about it, as could the Lone Dustman.
Most people know the Lone Ranger Overture. Fewer know about William.
I've heard that the William Tell Overture used to be a quick way of differentiating between working class people and the more educated class.
The test - play the overture and if the reaction is "Hi Ho Silver!" then
you have a bonafide working class person.
(This must have been true in the '60s? I remember watching the Lone
Ranger way back on a B&W TV.)
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
It's a euphemism for 'god blind me'; an expression of surprise.
Verily, in article <10tm1cc$3asom$1@dont-email.me>, did
peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also
included some musical notes.
That is awesome. I hope the business was named "To The Dump," because if
so, that truck is brilliant marketing.
If it was a city truck -- well, I'm still glad to see a sense of humor.
That is awesome. I hope the business was named "To The Dump," because ifA regular on another usenet group used to work for a firm who did groundworks (levelling & generally preparing a site for building work).
so, that truck is brilliant marketing.
If it was a city truck -- well, I'm still glad to see a sense of humor.
Their lorries carried the slogan "We'll make the earth move for you."
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2I knew "Gor blimey!" as a stereotypical Cockney expression. But to thisday I'm not sure what sort of trousers he was thinking of.
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman, He wears a dustman's hat. He wears
gorblimey trousers, And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Den 09.05.2026 kl. 21.45 skrev Sam Plusnet:
That is awesome. I hope the business was named "To The Dump," because if >>> so, that truck is brilliant marketing.A regular on another usenet group used to work for a firm who did
If it was a city truck -- well, I'm still glad to see a sense of humor.
groundworks (levelling & generally preparing a site for building work).
Their lorries carried the slogan "We'll make the earth move for you."
A Danish supermarket, this time advertising in English:
We are the champignons.
On 09/05/26 22:51, The True Melissa wrote:[...]
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman, He wears a dustman's hat. He wears
gorblimey trousers, And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
It can be easy to mishear song lyrics. At one stage I was singing
Pissing out the window
Doesn't really matter to me.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool
Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
I once saw a garbage truck with a large sign on the side saying "To the
dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump dump". I think the decoration also >included some musical notes.
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
On 09/05/26 22:51, The True Melissa wrote:--
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman, He wears a dustman's hat. He wears
gorblimey trousers, And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
It can be easy to mishear song lyrics. At one stage I was singing
Pissing out the window
Doesn't really matter to me.
When I were a lad there was a popular song "Cuanto la Gusta". I heard
that as
One tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose,
Tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose, ta.
At the time I didn't know what a talla goose was, but obviously it had
to be some sort of goose. After my last trip to Ireland I realised it
was really a Tallaght goose.
It can be easy to mishear song lyrics. At one stage I was singing
Pissing out the window
Doesn't really matter to me.
When I were a lad there was a popular song "Cuanto la Gusta". I heard
that as
One tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose,
Tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose, ta.
At the time I didn't know what a talla goose was, but obviously it had
to be some sort of goose. After my last trip to Ireland I realised it
was really a Tallaght goose.
I have a Kurt Vonnegut book on my bookshelf, whose title I kept
misreading as "Breakfast of Champignons".
On 09/05/26 22:51, The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman, He wears a dustman's hat. He wears
gorblimey trousers, And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
It can be easy to mishear song lyrics. At one stage I was singing
Pissing out the window
Doesn't really matter to me.
When I were a lad there was a popular song "Cuanto la Gusta". I heard
that as
One tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose,
Tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose, ta.
At the time I didn't know what a talla goose was, but obviously it had
to be some sort of goose. After my last trip to Ireland I realised it
was really a Tallaght goose.
A regular on another usenet group used to work for a firm who did groundworks (levelling & generally preparing a site for building work).
Their lorries carried the slogan "We'll make the earth move for you."
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
I knew "Gor blimey!" as a stereotypical Cockney expression. But to thisday I'm not sure what sort of trousers he was thinking of.
I knew it as "cor blimey"
On 09/05/26 22:51, The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman, He wears a dustman's hat. He wears
gorblimey trousers, And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
It can be easy to mishear song lyrics. At one stage I was singing
Pissing out the window
Doesn't really matter to me.
When I were a lad there was a popular song "Cuanto la Gusta". I heard
that as
One tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose,
Tallagoose, tallagoose, tallagoose, ta.
At the time I didn't know what a talla goose was, but obviously it had
to be some sort of goose. After my last trip to Ireland I realised it
was really a Tallaght goose.
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2I knew "Gor blimey!" as a stereotypical Cockney expression. But to this >>> day I'm not sure what sort of trousers he was thinking of.
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Wider than just London. I have the impression that the term has been disappearing as the collection arrangements have evolved. Back in the
1980s in Sussex we still had dustbins, and they were, naturally, emptied
by dustmen; but we moved on to black plastic bags that we were expected
to put out for collection, and then to wheelie bins, and the collectors
were more likely to be called 'bin men'.
Even earlier, dustmen would drive a 'dustcart', but that became a 'bin truck/lorry' a long time ago.
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Wider than just London.
I have the impression that the term has been
disappearing as the collection arrangements have evolved. Back in the
1980s in Sussex we still had dustbins, and they were, naturally, emptied
by dustmen; but we moved on to black plastic bags that we were expected
to put out for collection, and then to wheelie bins, and the collectors
were more likely to be called 'bin men'.
Even earlier, dustmen would drive a 'dustcart', but that became a 'bin truck/lorry' a long time ago.
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
Wider than just London.
I have the impression that the term has been
disappearing as the collection arrangements have evolved. Back in the
1980s in Sussex we still had dustbins, and they were, naturally, emptied
by dustmen; but we moved on to black plastic bags that we were expected
to put out for collection, and then to wheelie bins, and the collectors
were more likely to be called 'bin men'.
Even earlier, dustmen would drive a 'dustcart', but that became a 'bin truck/lorry' a long time ago.
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far as
the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
I knew "Gor blimey!" as a stereotypical Cockney expression. But to this >>> day I'm not sure what sort of trousers he was thinking of.
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 13.18 skrev JNugent:
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far
as the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty
food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
How many of those photos were taken in the United Kingdom or the United States?
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far as
the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".-a Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far as
the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty food >>> tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
That was collected separately in "Pig-Bins" which were stood on street corners;
and empty them. The waste would then be boiled up and used to feed pigs which were housed in a penned-off corner of the local allotments.
The smell of the boiling wate and the pigs themselves was fairly bad but
I heard of a much worse case in another city, where the boiler was
heated by burning scrap off-cuts from a nearby shoe factory, which
included leather and vinyl.
On 10/05/2026 02:15 PM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as
far as the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash
and empty food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
Did you not see my mention of food waste?
It was in a bit you snipped! ;-)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even
London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 21.10 skrev Sam Plusnet:
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing
the job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
Nothing like what it used to be. When I was a child, the bins were made
of metal and something like 6*6*6 liter, and they were pretty much full.
The binman would singlehandedly take it on his shoulder where he had a leather cover for protection. In our garden theres was something like 30 meters to walk before he could empty the bin and carry it back.
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".a Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
A typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried
from the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and
decanted. All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
On 09/05/2026 22:41, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Not quite the same thing, since in the UK the local council would have
owned those houses & flats, so they were the landlord.
n Indianapolis, the companies that delivered coal also distributed
ice. The man that delivered coal in the winter delivered ice blocks
in the summer. When they delivered ice, they wore a leather thing
over the shoulder to diffuse the cold of the ice block.
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants
pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from
the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust that stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. In
the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
On 10/05/2026 11:44 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even
London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
That is certainly consonant with other Oz-isms I have encountered.
Do they prefer to do the job unaccompanied?
We now have three bins: one for recyclables, one for green waste, and
one for everything else. Two of the bins are emptied fortnightly; but
the green bin is emptied weekly, because the council expects more green waste.
Some years ago, a lot of the food waste (but not meat and bones) went
into the compost heap, but I no longer have the energy to look after a compost heap.
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 15.44 skrev JNugent:
[...]
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
How many of those photos were taken in the United Kingdom or the
United States?
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox- sb&t=images&q=woman+garbage+collector
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of
thing)-|.
"Garbage" and "rubbish" are both current in Australia, with "garbage"
perhaps more common. But we don't say "trash", which I think of as a
purely American term.
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
on-the-garbage fly collection.
Den 11.05.2026 kl. 07.03 skrev Peter Moylan:
"Garbage" and "rubbish" are both current in Australia, with
"garbage" perhaps more common. But we don't say "trash", which I
think of as a purely American term.
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
on-the-garbage fly collection.
I have no connection with computer work any more, but I believe that
garbage collection will remain a disciplin - unless AI has taken
over.
On 11/05/26 15:48, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 11.05.2026 kl. 07.03 skrev Peter Moylan:
"Garbage" and "rubbish" are both current in Australia, with
"garbage" perhaps more common. But we don't say "trash", which I
think of as a purely American term.
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
on-the-garbage fly collection.
I have no connection with computer work any more, but I believe that
garbage collection will remain a disciplin - unless AI has taken
over.
AI will continue to be good for producing garbage.
The reason I put those studies in the past is that I think it's now
generally felt that garbage collection is a solved problem.
Le 10/05/2026 |a 15:32, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 15.44 skrev JNugent:
[...]
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
How many of those photos were taken in the United Kingdom or the
United States?
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox- sb&t=images&q=woman+garbage+collector
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)-'.
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants >>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)-|.
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)|e'.
"Recycling" used to be called "Salvage" in the U.K. Possibly salvage
also suggested a degree of re-use whereas recycling.(at least to me)
suggests breaking the items down into basic materials for
re-manufacture.
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
on-the-garbage fly collection.
Le 10/05/2026 a 15:32, Bertel Lund Hansen a ocrit :
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 15.44 skrev JNugent:
[...]
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>>> job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
How many of those photos were taken in the United Kingdom or the
United States?
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=woman+garbage+collector
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)|.
On 11/05/26 10:25, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:44 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even
London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
That is certainly consonant with other Oz-isms I have encountered.
Do they prefer to do the job unaccompanied?
I don't think Greta ever applied for a bin-emptying job.
Anyway, to take your question literally: there used to be two-man teams.
One driving the truck, the other running along the street lifting the
bins. Hmm, now that I think of it there might have been a third man,
standing on the back of the truck and receiving the bins from the runner.
Now that the trucks have attached lifting gear, it's all done by a
single person.
On 11/05/26 14:52, Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of
thing)-|.
"Garbage" and "rubbish" are both current in Australia, with "garbage"
perhaps more common. But we don't say "trash", which I think of as a
purely American term.
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
on-the-garbage fly collection.
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 10/05/2026 | 15:32, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 15.44 skrev JNugent:
[...]
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>>>> job.
Will photos do:
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=kvindelig+skraldemand
No need to scroll. The rest are all male.
How many of those photos were taken in the United Kingdom or the
United States?
https://www.qwant.com/?client=plgn-firefox-
sb&t=images&q=woman+garbage+collector
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)-'.
"Recycling" used to be called "Salvage" in the U.K. Possibly salvage
also suggested a degree of re-use whereas recycling.(at least to me)
suggests breaking the items down into basic materials for
re-manufacture.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 09:22:31 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing)|e'.
"Recycling" used to be called "Salvage" in the U.K. Possibly salvage
also suggested a degree of re-use whereas recycling.(at least to me)
suggests breaking the items down into basic materials for
re-manufacture.
Much of our recycling is done by scavengers who come around with
repurposed supermarket trolleys just before the dustmen arrive. A
neighbour once rebuked me for referring to them as scavengers, said it
was an insulting term, whereas I see it as purely descriptive.
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
American.
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants >>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from >>> the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
I think we managed to make about 25 cwt last us through the Winter. The
coal shed was a filthy place, nothing else stored there was recognisable under the layer of black dust after a few weeks. Some posh houses had a
coal cellar and many houses had a coal bunker near the back door for convenience.
The coal scuttle and 'companion set' (tongs, poker and shovel) lived on
the fireplace slab.
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Because housing developments expanded in the suburbs of many Florida
cities before sewage lines were extended by the city, there are a lot
of Florida homes with septic tanks.
Septic tanks need to be cleaned out every few years. The largest
company in the Orlando area is Brownie's Septic Service. I drove by
their offices today and noticed a yellow truck labeled as "Stool Bus".
Not my photo, but:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F42lksd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4446ea8b3228f4abdd367eb55a309a672ac19d6aba2c4442ce74634b33a7d736
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far as the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
On 10/05/2026 20:19, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 21.10 skrev Sam Plusnet:
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing
the job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
Nothing like what it used to be. When I was a child, the bins were made
of metal and something like 6*6*6 liter, and they were pretty much full. The binman would singlehandedly take it on his shoulder where he had a leather cover for protection. In our garden theres was something like 30 meters to walk before he could empty the bin and carry it back.
A close friend in college days spent one summer working 'on the bins'.
One of the regular workers seemed to have worn a concave shape into his shoulder so that he could pick up a bin and it would lodge there without
him having to do much to hold onto it.
After a few years of doing the job, people developed an economy of
movement that meant they could do a full day's work without much stress, leaving younger strong-looking lads gasping for air.
Le 11/05/2026 |a 17:18, JNugent a |-crit :
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
I don't dispute that, but in more recent times, e.g. WIWAL, it has been markedly more American:
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=trash%3Aeng_us%2Ctrash%3Aeng_gb&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
I think the graph understates the case. Many of those instances are
probably not references to refuse, but other senses: trash novel, trash culture, white trash, to trash somethingrCa. The OED says that 'trash' meaning refuse (sense 1.a.ii) is an American usage, though it doesn't
say this of the sense 'worthless' (sense 3.a, e.g. writing).
Interestingly, it traces 'trash' as refuse back to to 1906, quite a bit after Bill was scribbling his stuff.
So 'rubbish', then, or more formally 'refuse'.
Le 11/05/2026 |a 17:18, JNugent a |-crit :
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
I don't dispute that, but in more recent times, e.g. WIWAL, it has been markedly more American:
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=trash%3Aeng_us%2Ctrash%3Aeng_gb&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
I think the graph understates the case. Many of those instances are
probably not references to refuse, but other senses: trash novel, trash culture, white trash, to trash somethingrCa. The OED says that 'trash' meaning refuse (sense 1.a.ii) is an American usage, though it doesn't
say this of the sense 'worthless' (sense 3.a, e.g. writing).
Interestingly, it traces 'trash' as refuse back to to 1906, quite a bit
after Bill was scribbling his stuff.
So 'rubbish', then, or more formally 'refuse'.
In article <zN8MR.669$UEa.372@fx10.ams1>, not@home.com says...
On 10/05/2026 20:19, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 21.10 skrev Sam Plusnet:A close friend in college days spent one summer working 'on the bins'.
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing
the job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
Nothing like what it used to be. When I was a child, the bins were made
of metal and something like 6*6*6 liter, and they were pretty much full. >>> The binman would singlehandedly take it on his shoulder where he had a
leather cover for protection. In our garden theres was something like 30 >>> meters to walk before he could empty the bin and carry it back.
One of the regular workers seemed to have worn a concave shape into his
shoulder so that he could pick up a bin and it would lodge there without
him having to do much to hold onto it.
After a few years of doing the job, people developed an economy of
movement that meant they could do a full day's work without much stress,
leaving younger strong-looking lads gasping for air.
The summer we got married, my husband was a binman.That's where he acquired his lifetime habit of bringing home rubbish that "might be
useful".
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".-a Usual occupants >>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the
job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from
the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
ISTR that we had 2cwt a week during the winter and almost none in summer (though the back boiler had to be fed).
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust that
stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
What about the horse and flatback cart?
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants >>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from >>> the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
I think we managed to make about 25 cwt last us through the Winter. The
coal shed was a filthy place, nothing else stored there was recognisable under the layer of black dust after a few weeks. Some posh houses had a
coal cellar and many houses had a coal bunker near the back door for convenience.
The coal scuttle and 'companion set' (tongs, poker and shovel) lived on
the fireplace slab.
Google tells me that the density of bulk coal ranges between 641 and 929 >kg/m-|.
I think we managed to make about 25 cwt last us through the Winter. The
coal shed was a filthy place, nothing else stored there was recognisable >under the layer of black dust after a few weeks. Some posh houses had a
coal cellar and many houses had a coal bunker near the back door for >convenience.
On 11/05/2026 06:14 PM, Hibou wrote:
[quoted text muted]
culture, white trash, to trash something?. The OED says that 'trash' meaning refuse (sense 1.a.ii) is an American usage, though it doesn't
say this of the sense 'worthless' (sense 3.a, e.g. writing).
Interestingly, it traces 'trash' as refuse back to to 1906, quite a bit after Bill was scribbling his stuff.
"The Tempest" was first played in about 1612.
Act 1, Scene II:
PROSPERO
Being once perfected how to grant suits,
How to deny them, who to advance and who
To trash for over-topping, new created
The creatures that were mine, I say, or changed 'em,
Trash?
"The Tempest" was first played in about 1612.
Act 1, Scene II:
PROSPERO
Being once perfected how to grant suits,
How to deny them, who to advance and who
To trash for over-topping, new created
The creatures that were mine, I say, or changed 'em,
On 11/05/2026 01:22, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was
singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants >>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from >>> the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
The houses all had large coal stores so less frequent but bigger loads
was practical. (It isn't as though it cost us anything.)>
ISTR that we had 2cwt a week during the winter and almost none inNo, the NCB had moved with the times and motorised.
summer (though the back boiler had to be fed).
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust that >>> stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
What about the horse and flatback cart?
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly
would have been horse drawn,
Verily, in article <n6ep0oFj56aU1@mid.individual.net>, did JNugent73 @mail.com deliver unto us this message:
On 11/05/2026 06:14 PM, Hibou wrote:
[quoted text muted]
culture, white trash, to trash something?. The OED says that 'trash'
meaning refuse (sense 1.a.ii) is an American usage, though it doesn't
say this of the sense 'worthless' (sense 3.a, e.g. writing).
Interestingly, it traces 'trash' as refuse back to to 1906, quite a bit
after Bill was scribbling his stuff.
"The Tempest" was first played in about 1612.
Act 1, Scene II:
PROSPERO
Being once perfected how to grant suits,
How to deny them, who to advance and who
To trash for over-topping, new created
The creatures that were mine, I say, or changed 'em,
"To trash" as a verb is older than the noun? I wouldn't have guessed
that. Interesting.
On 11/05/2026 10:06 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
Much of our recycling is done by scavengers who come around with
repurposed supermarket trolleys just before the dustmen arrive. A
neighbour once rebuked me for referring to them as scavengers, said
it was an insulting term, whereas I see it as purely descriptive.
Similar round here. If you have anything to dispose of which it
remotely valuable for its constituent parts, all you have to do is
post a message on the village FaceBook group, with an indication of
which road and (maybe) number.
It'll be gone within an hour or so. Usually less.
The summer we got married, my husband was a binman.That's where he
acquired his lifetime habit of bringing home rubbish that "might be
useful".
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly
would have been horse drawn,
In article <1ruxtrf.6ot67l15ire16N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
I think we managed to make about 25 cwt last us through the Winter. The >>coal shed was a filthy place, nothing else stored there was recognisable >>under the layer of black dust after a few weeks. Some posh houses had a >>coal cellar and many houses had a coal bunker near the back door for >>convenience.
I just the other day watched a home-improvement show where the house
had previously had a rear coal chute, which the expert immediately
recognized despite it having been blocked up. The loose coal would
have landed in a bin in the basement, convenient to the furnace.
On 11/05/2026 09:01 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 01:22, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. >>>>> In the north-west, it's "binman".
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was >>>>>>>>> singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".-a Usual occupants >>>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference >>>>>>> between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can >>>>>>> afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant
nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a >>>>>> garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?) >>>>>
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried
from
the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted. >>>> All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
The houses all had large coal stores so less frequent but bigger loads
was practical.-a (It isn't as though it cost us anything.)>
ISTR that we had 2cwt a week during the winter and almost none inNo, the NCB had moved with the times and motorised.
summer (though the back boiler had to be fed).
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust
that
stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
What about the horse and flatback cart?
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly
would have been horse drawn,
There was a coal-merchant who lived in the same street as my
grandmother. His horse, between the shafts of his flat-back wagon, lived (literally) in the street, his hoofs on the granite sett-stones.
These days the official term seems to be 'waste'. We have separate bins
for food waste, recycling, general waste and garden waste. The waste
goes to the Household Waste Recycling Centre (aka the Amenity Tip).
Verily, in article <n6ep0oFj56aU1@mid.individual.net>, did JNugent73 @mail.com deliver unto us this message:
"The Tempest" was first played in about 1612.
Act 1, Scene II:
PROSPERO
Being once perfected how to grant suits,
How to deny them, who to advance and who
To trash for over-topping, new created
The creatures that were mine, I say, or changed 'em,
"To trash" as a verb is older than the noun? I wouldn't have guessed
that. Interesting.
In article <hLqMR.117$1da.85@fx13.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
Google tells me that the density of bulk coal ranges between 641 and 929 >kg/m-".
So a bucket of coal would float. Just as well for steam ships I
suppose.
On 11/05/2026 01:22, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was
singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".-a Usual occupants >>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference
between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can
afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only.
In the north-west, it's "binman".
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from >>> the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted.
All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
The houses all had large coal stores so less frequent but bigger loads
was practical.-a (It isn't as though it cost us anything.)>
ISTR that we had 2cwt a week during the winter and almost none inNo, the NCB had moved with the times and motorised.
summer (though the back boiler had to be fed).
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust that >>> stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
What about the horse and flatback cart?
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly
would have been horse drawn,
On Mon, 11 May 2026 20:09:09 +0100, Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid>
wrote:
These days the official term seems to be 'waste'. We have separate bins
for food waste, recycling, general waste and garden waste. The waste
goes to the Household Waste Recycling Centre (aka the Amenity Tip).
Amenity -- now there's a word to ponder.
Is the "Amenity Tip" renowned for its beautiful views. its fragrance,
the pleasure it gives?
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a
garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?)
On 11/05/26 10:25, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:44 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even
London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
That is certainly consonant with other Oz-isms I have encountered.
Do they prefer to do the job unaccompanied?
I don't think Greta ever applied for a bin-emptying job.
Anyway, to take your question literally: there used to be two-man teams.
One driving the truck, the other running along the street lifting the
bins. Hmm, now that I think of it there might have been a third man,
standing on the back of the truck and receiving the bins from the runner.
Now that the trucks have attached lifting gear, it's all done by a
single person.
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
On 11/05/2026 03:51, Peter Moylan wrote:
Now that the trucks have attached lifting gear, it's all done by a
single person.
The driver gets out? Here it's still a two-three person job: (1) The driver; (2) the one who drags the bin to the lifting gear; and (3) a mysterious third person who runs ahead of the truck and 'aggregates'
several bins into a cluster to make the job of (2) easier.
[...] Now I
think of it, part of the reason may be that the new bins have sensors in them, which summon the lorry when they're nearly full - in principle,
that is.
On 11/05/2026 03:51, Peter Moylan wrote:
Anyway, to take your question literally: there used to be two-man
teams. One driving the truck, the other running along the street
lifting the bins. Hmm, now that I think of it there might have been
a third man, standing on the back of the truck and receiving the
bins from the runner.
Now that the trucks have attached lifting gear, it's all done by a
single person.
The driver gets out? Here it's still a two-three person job: (1)
The driver; (2) the one who drags the bin to the lifting gear; and
(3) a mysterious third person who runs ahead of the truck and
'aggregates' several bins into a cluster to make the job of (2)
easier.
For some reason - I can't be bothered to google it - it
has now gone back to lorries with three-man crews and
lifting gear at the back.
Now I think of it, part of the reason may be that the new
bins have sensors in them, which summon the lorry when
they're nearly full - in principle, that is.
Hibou wrote:
Now I think of it, part of the reason may be that the new
bins have sensors in them, which summon the lorry when
they're nearly full - in principle, that is.
It's for charging people by the weight of their rubbish.
Our bins have tiny barcode sensors on them which register
the weight of the bin as it gets lifted, as well as informing
the company whose bin it is. As our general waste is billed by
weight. (Not the recycling.) We can also access our bin weight
information on the website to see how much rubbish was in the
bin each time it was collected.
On 12/05/26 19:56, occam wrote:
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
Which is a reasonable use for the Internet of Things - better than
having your fridge order more gorgonzola.
It's for charging people by the weight of their rubbish.
In some places, no doubt, but not here. The bins are large, live in the street, and each serves many flats. There is no way of associating
rubbish with particular properties - or of identifying how much has been brought by people driving here with their contribution.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
In article <10tq0e3$cth8$2@dont-email.me>, rundtosset@lundhansen.dk
says...
Den 10.05.2026 kl. 14.23 skrev JNugent:
Of course, back in the days of horses (which persisted, IIRC, as far as the very early 1960s), bins contained little but coal-ash and empty food tins. And we called it "ashes", not "dust".
Ours was the same. In icy weather we saved the ashes to scatter on
paths to avoid slipping.
Were there no peel from potatoes and such?
Poor households didn't peel potatoes or root veg; too wasteful'
During ww2
People with a garden composted peels etc to use as fertiliser ( I do;
still very common here) ; or fed it to pets, or backyard chickens and
pigs. All the kitchen waste from our school kitchens was collected by someone who fed it to pigs. You could smell that truck miles away.
In my childhood we still had a rag and bone man who drove a horse
and cart. He took anything recyclable like rags, jamjars, bits of
wood and tins, to sell.
Food shops sold loose dry goods by weight, in paper bags; butcher
and fishmongers wrapped their goods in paper. In our household every
scrap of paper was saved, rolled into a screw and used for lighting coal fires. Any string from wrapped parcels was carefully untied,
straightened out and joined onto a big ball of saved string for re-use.
On 11/05/2026 21:01, Sam Plusnet wrote:[]
No, the NCB had moved with the times and motorised.
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly would have been horse drawn,
our village railway station had a coal yard - now a car park
On 11/05/2026 09:22, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. >>>> In the north-west, it's "binman".
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was singing >>>>>>>> there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing". Usual occupants >>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference >>>>>> between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can >>>>>> afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant nothing >>>>> in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a >>>>> garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?) >>>>
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried from >>> the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted. >>> All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
I think we managed to make about 25 cwt last us through the Winter. The coal shed was a filthy place, nothing else stored there was recognisable under the layer of black dust after a few weeks. Some posh houses had a coal cellar and many houses had a coal bunker near the back door for convenience.
I did some checking.
Google tells me that the density of bulk coal ranges between 641 and 929 kg/m|.
So 2 imperial tons (roughly 2 metric tons) would occupy somewhere
between 2 and 3 (ish) cubic metres.
Our 'coal house' would easily handle twice that without inconvenience. >
The coal scuttle and 'companion set' (tongs, poker and shovel) lived on
the fireplace slab.
Some of those sets could be quite ornate - but those tended to be much
less practical.
On 12/05/26 19:56, occam wrote:
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had one arm left).
I have a great programming joke but it's only
funny on my machine.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 21:13:01 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 11/05/2026 09:22, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
The coal scuttle and 'companion set' (tongs, poker and shovel) lived on the fireplace slab.
Some of those sets could be quite ornate - but those tended to be much
less practical.
We use ours in winter months - I had assumed it was just a brass
ornamental thingy when the mrs bought it. It has 4 items though - tongs, poker, shovel and ... I'll just check... brush!
On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:22:06 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
On 12/05/26 19:56, occam wrote:
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had one arm left).
Kerr-Mudd, John:
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had one arm left).
Tree surgeon took off one limb too many?
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had one arm left).
On 12/05/2026 06:14, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 20:09:09 +0100, Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid>
wrote:
These days the official term seems to be 'waste'. We have separate bins
for food waste, recycling, general waste and garden waste. The waste
goes to the Household Waste Recycling Centre (aka the Amenity Tip).
Amenity -- now there's a word to ponder.
Is the "Amenity Tip" renowned for its beautiful views. its fragrance,
the pleasure it gives?
Well, the new housing built on the site of the old sewage works has a
fine view of the Amenity Tip opposite. Presumably also, when the wind is right, the occupants can also enjoy the fragrance.
The developers have missed several tricks in the naming of the
development and the streets within it, though.
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
On 11/05/2026 21:01, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 01:22, JNugent wrote:our village railway station had a coal yard - now a car park
On 10/05/2026 08:10 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:18, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2026 11:53 AM, Ross Clark wrote:
On 10/05/2026 9:41 a.m., Tony Cooper wrote:"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even London-only. >>>>> In the north-west, it's "binman".
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:47:05 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 10/05/2026 12:51 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <1778312081-12588@newsgrouper.org>, did
athel.cb@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:
My old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat.
He wears gorblimey trousers,
And he lives in a council flat.
Lonnie Donegan, very popular when I were a lad.
Thank you for "gorblimey." I've never understood what he was >>>>>>>>> singing
there.
Way out in Canada, I didn't know what a "council flat" was.
In the US, the comparable term is "Public Housing".-a Usual occupants >>>>>>> pay a portion of the rent and the government pays the difference >>>>>>> between what the landlord charges and the figure the occupant can >>>>>>> afford under the HUD Section 8 program.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the word "dustman" also meant
nothing
in MyEng. Eventually I worked out that it must be something like a >>>>>> garbage collector. (What other terms are there for that profession?) >>>>>
And to this day, despite equal opps, I've never seen a woman doing the >>>>> job.
Hard physical work, but if forced to choose I would prefer to be a
binman than a coalman.
WIWAL our coal was delivered by lorry carrying hundredweight[1] sacks.
Oh yes, I remember that!
A
typical delivery was 2 tons, so 40 of those sacks had to be carried
from
the back of the lorry to the coal store behind the house and decanted. >>>> All carried on a man's back - no sack truck or any other aid.
All to one household?
The houses all had large coal stores so less frequent but bigger loads
was practical.-a (It isn't as though it cost us anything.)>
ISTR that we had 2cwt a week during the winter and almost none inNo, the NCB had moved with the times and motorised.
summer (though the back boiler had to be fed).
Then on to the next house...
I suppose our delivery was short changed by the amount of coal dust
that
stuck to each man.
[1] 112lb or roughly 50kg.
What about the horse and flatback cart?
My great grandfather was a coal merchant, so his deliveries certainly
would have been horse drawn,
Den 12.05.2026 kl. 12.27 skrev Hibou:
Which is a reasonable use for the Internet of Things - better than
having your fridge order more gorgonzola.
Or a hacker setting the temperature in your house to 40-#C.
Le 12/05/2026 |a 11:22, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
On 12/05/26 19:56, occam wrote:
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
I think that term's used only in throwaway remarks.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:22:06 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
On 12/05/26 19:56, occam wrote:I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
"Public sanitation agent" ? <smile> Every lowly function is made to
sound more impressive these days.
I see 'waste collector' and 'trashman' are other accepted terms.
I've seen "garbologist" here, but I think that's just the garbos'
attempt to make their job sound more impressive.
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had one arm left).
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
[...]
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist
(I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had >> one arm left).
I know a couple of arboriculturists who call themselves 'arborists' when among colleagues but they're tree surgeons to the general public and
very knowledgeable and highly trained.
I'm told it's one of the most hazardous jobs that there are; they know a couple of people who've had nasty chainsaw accidents. Then there was
another who fell out of a tree and was very badly injured; he caught his safety rope with his chainsaw.
[...] ObAUE: 'Garbage collection' is used in computer science as a term for automatic memory management. I assume the process in charge of this particular function is known as the 'garbage collector'.
rCLGarbagerCY is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used.
On 12/05/2026 19:32, Sn!pe wrote:
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
[...]
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist >> (I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had >> one arm left).
I know a couple of arboriculturists who call themselves 'arborists' when among colleagues but they're tree surgeons to the general public and
very knowledgeable and highly trained.
I'm told it's one of the most hazardous jobs that there are; they know a couple of people who've had nasty chainsaw accidents. Then there was another who fell out of a tree and was very badly injured; he caught his safety rope with his chainsaw.
Quite some time back I heard it was becoming very difficult to get
insurance in that occupation.
Given the chances of personal accidents and liability for dropping a
tree (or part thereof) onto something (or someone) expensive, the
premiums were through the roof.
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish' >>>>>> (rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing).
Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not
British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic works
of the Bard.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 20:31:40 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 19:32, Sn!pe wrote:So legit (and therefore the others) operators charge large numbers.
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:Quite some time back I heard it was becoming very difficult to get
[...]
I knew a chap who was a forestry worker, he call himself an arborologist >>>> (I think that's what he said. I don't think he was cut out for it - he had >>>> one arm left).
I know a couple of arboriculturists who call themselves 'arborists' when >>> among colleagues but they're tree surgeons to the general public and
very knowledgeable and highly trained.
I'm told it's one of the most hazardous jobs that there are; they know a >>> couple of people who've had nasty chainsaw accidents. Then there was
another who fell out of a tree and was very badly injured; he caught his >>> safety rope with his chainsaw.
insurance in that occupation.
Given the chances of personal accidents and liability for dropping a
tree (or part thereof) onto something (or someone) expensive, the
premiums were through the roof.
"Garbage" is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used.
In article <27139.33567.303004.351630@parhasard.net>,
Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote:
"Garbage" is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used.
It's the contents of the memory that are garbage, not the memory
itself. You might say that "collection" is the wrong word.
-- Richard
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Trash?
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish' >>>>>> (rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing). >>>>>>
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not
British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic works
of the Bard.
Den 12.05.2026 kl. 21.44 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
rCLGarbagerCY is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used.
Eh ... isn't that what we do with garbage?
Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh occam:
[...] ObAUE: 'Garbage collection' is used in computer science as a term for
automatic memory management. I assume the process in charge of this particular function is known as the 'garbage collector'.
Yes, though usually not a separate process with its own address space (which would defeat the whole point). Java gives the GC its own thread (like a process
but sharing the address space).
rCLGarbagerCY is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used. I suspect from
some of PeterrCOs comments here it was picked up from compilers or linkers, where
the memory would otherwise be wasted.
My assertion was that it was American, not that it was wrong - and, according to the OED, 'trash' meaning 'refuse' is a new sense, dating...
only from 1906:
If this is right, then Anne Hathaway would not have talked of sweeping
the porch and carrying out the trash.
"Hibou":
My assertion was that it was American, not that it was wrong - and,
according to the OED, 'trash' meaning 'refuse' is a new sense, dating
only from 1906:
...
If this is right, then Anne Hathaway would not have talked of sweeping
the porch and carrying out the trash.
But Anne Hathaway might say that.
On 12/05/2026 23:07, JNugent wrote:
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish' >>>>>>> (rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing). >>>>Trash?
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not
British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic
works of the Bard.
Had anyone suggested it was wrong? I've seen nothing here in aue which
says that.
Le 12/05/2026 |a 23:07, JNugent a |-crit :
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Trash?
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish' >>>>>>> (rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of thing). >>>>>>>
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not
British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic
works of the Bard.
My assertion was that it was American, not that it was wrong - and,
according to the OED, 'trash' meaning 'refuse' is a new sense, dating
only from 1906:
"1.a.ii. 1906rCo spec. [specifically] in the U.S., domestic refuse,
garbage. [...] 1962 'Mother used to get up at five in the morningrCa to
sweep the front porch and carry the trash out' - A. Lurie, 'Love & Friendship' [...]"
If this is right, then Anne Hathaway would not have talked of sweeping
the porch and carrying out the trash.
On 13/05/2026 06:24 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 12/05/2026 |a 23:07, JNugent a |-crit :
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Trash?
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say 'rubbish' >>>>>>>> (rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of
thing).
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not
British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use.
I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic
works of the Bard.
My assertion was that it was American, not that it was wrong - and,
according to the OED, 'trash' meaning 'refuse' is a new sense, dating
only from 1906:
"1.a.ii. 1906rCo spec. [specifically] in the U.S., domestic refuse,
garbage. [...] 1962 'Mother used to get up at five in the morningrCa to
sweep the front porch and carry the trash out' - A. Lurie, 'Love &
Friendship' [...]"
If this is right, then Anne Hathaway would not have talked of sweeping
the porch and carrying out the trash.
But her husband used the word as a noun in "The Tempest".
On 12/05/2026 21:44, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh occam:
[...] ObAUE: 'Garbage collection' is used in computer science as a term for
automatic memory management. I assume the process in charge of this
particular function is known as the 'garbage collector'.
Yes, though usually not a separate process with its own address space (which >> would defeat the whole point). Java gives the GC its own thread
(like a process
but sharing the address space).
rCLGarbagerCY is the wrong term too, in that the memory is re-used. I suspect from
some of PeterrCOs comments here it was picked up from compilers or
linkers, where
the memory would otherwise be wasted.
Thanks for the clarification of the actual process.
However, it's the data that is being collected and disposed of. The
memory itself is being reclaimed. "Memory reclamation" may be a more
accurate term for the process.
On 11/05/26 08:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 10/05/26 21:18, JNugent wrote:
"Dustman" is definitely southern English, possibly even
London-only. In the north-west, it's "binman".
"Garbo" here.
And, for the other kind of waste, dunny-man and dunny truck.
Schoolboy riddle: What has four wheels and flies?
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes.
Not perfectly accurate, I'm afraid. Other resources, for example
handles for open files, are also recovered. There is now a huge
literature on various aspects and techniques of "garbage collection",
it's too late to change.
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have
done among themselves.
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my
use of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 11:27:59 +0100, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my
use of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
It just sounds quaint and old-fashioned, like the US use of "pitcher"
in circumstances where I would use "jug".
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
Steve Hayes pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
On Wed, 13 May 2026 11:27:59 +0100, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my use >>> of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
It just sounds quaint and old-fashioned, like the US use of "pitcher"
in circumstances where I would use "jug".
Jugs are for moonshine and backwoods bands.
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
That would be closer to WWI than it is to today.
/dps
JNugent wrote:
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my
use of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
It just sounds quaint and old-fashioned, like the US use of "pitcher"
in circumstances where I would use "jug".
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking modern BrE?
Den 14.05.2026 kl. 09.10 skrev Hibou:
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
Le 13/05/2026 |a 11:28, JNugent a |-crit :
On 13/05/2026 06:24 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 12/05/2026 |a 23:07, JNugent a |-crit :
On 12/05/2026 07:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/05/2026 17:18, JNugent wrote:I see nothing wrong with using words which appear in the dramatic
On 11/05/2026 10:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 11/05/2026 |a 10:01, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Trash?
'Garbage' is traditionally a more American term. We'd say
'rubbish'
(rubbish dump, rubbish collection twice a week, that sort of >>>>>>>>> thing).
American.
<ahem>
Elizabethan / Jacobean English.
Which does not prevent it from being a 21st century American (but not >>>>> British) word.
There a a number of words which died out here but remained in US use. >>>>
works of the Bard.
My assertion was that it was American, not that it was wrong - and,
according to the OED, 'trash' meaning 'refuse' is a new sense, dating
only from 1906:
"1.a.ii. 1906rCo spec. [specifically] in the U.S., domestic refuse,
garbage. [...] 1962 'Mother used to get up at five in the morningrCa to
sweep the front porch and carry the trash out' - A. Lurie, 'Love &
Friendship' [...]"
If this is right, then Anne Hathaway would not have talked of sweeping
the porch and carrying out the trash.
But her husband used the word as a noun in "The Tempest".
And in 'Othello' and 'Julius Caesar', but not with this sense ("Shall we
now, contaminate our fingers, with base bribes? And sellrCa ourrCa honours for so much trash, as may be grasped thus?" [JC] - 'trash' here is
obsolete slang for money (3.d in the OED).)
The discussion here has been about 'trash' as rubbish, garbage, refuse,
and in that context it is American.
Le 14/05/2026 |a 03:48, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
JNugent wrote:
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my
use of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
It just sounds quaint and old-fashioned, like the US use of "pitcher"
in circumstances where I would use "jug".
'Pitcher' (En), 'pichet' (Fr) (the Americans are fond of the French).
The origin of 'jug' is uncertain; it may have come from a girls' name in
the 1500s (OED). It's more English, anyway.
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
Den 14.05.2026 kl. 09.10 skrev Hibou:
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
On 14/05/2026 08:10 AM, Hibou wrote:
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
Past participle of the verb, especially useful in the pluperfect.
Rarely in speech (the sense doesn't come up very often in conversation),
but in writing, certainly.
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph? content=I+had+got%2CI+had+gotten&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en-GB&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
Le 14/05/2026 |a 08:23, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
I may, though I don't see how that would answer the question "why?"
Le 14/05/2026 |a 14:09, JNugent a |-crit :
On 14/05/2026 08:10 AM, Hibou wrote:
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
Past participle of the verb, especially useful in the pluperfect.
Rarely in speech (the sense doesn't come up very often in
conversation), but in writing, certainly.
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=I+had+got%2CI+had+gotten&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en-GB&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
What does that mean, please?
Starting with "what is an Ngram?", I suppose!
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
Den 14.05.2026 kl. 09.10 skrev Hibou:
I suppose the question is, why does JNugent say 'gotten' when speaking
modern BrE?
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I thinkI don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes. >>
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
Steve Hayes pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
On Wed, 13 May 2026 11:27:59 +0100, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
But I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that my
use of "gotten" is an Americanism and has no place in British English.
It just sounds quaint and old-fashioned, like the US use of "pitcher"
in circumstances where I would use "jug".
Jugs are for moonshine and backwoods bands.
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
That would be closer to WWI than it is to today.
On 14/05/2026 02:33 PM, Hibou wrote:
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
The use of "got" can be more ambiguous.
And used in certain senses, it's ugly.
"Gotten" doesn't suffer from that.
And you have put your finger right on it: it's only less "usual" than
"got". That does not make it incorrect.
Den 14.05.2026 kl. 15.33 skrev Hibou:
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
Why limit the language to only the common expressions?
Why limit the language to only the common expressions?
One shouldn't, of course. One of the great things about English is its plasticity (in contrast to French, for example, where the attitude is commonly that it's all right if Flaubert, Moli|?re, or Voltaire said it, otherwise it's not).
But there is a risk. Unusual language draws attention to itself. That
may be deliberate, and fun, as in Wodehouse, but if your listeners start
to ask why you, as a Brit, are saying 'gotten', if you have to take time
out to explain your reasoning to them, then they've stopped paying
attention to what you want to say.
The purpose of language is usually to create an effect in the mind of
the listener or reader. One should choose one's words with that in mind.
One shouldn't, of course. One of the great things about English is its plasticity (in contrast to French, for example, where the attitude is commonly that it's all right if Flaubert, Moli|?re, or Voltaire said
it, otherwise it's not).
But there is a risk. Unusual language draws attention to itself. That
may be deliberate, and fun, as in Wodehouse, but if your listeners
start to ask why you, as a Brit, are saying 'gotten', if you have to
take time out to explain your reasoning to them, then they've stopped
paying attention to what you want to say.
The purpose of language is usually to create an effect in the mind of
the listener or reader. One should choose one's words with that in
mind.
Le 14/05/2026 |a 17:36, JNugent a |-crit :
On 14/05/2026 02:33 PM, Hibou wrote:
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
The use of "got" can be more ambiguous.
Do you have an example to hand?
And used in certain senses, it's ugly.
"Gotten" doesn't suffer from that.
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for instance.
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Den 14.05.2026 kl. 15.10 skrev JNugent:
You may want to look at an Ngram with "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb".
What does that mean, please?
Starting with "what is an Ngram?", I suppose!
Begin with this page:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/
And see how the three graphs show how common the three expressions are
and when they began being used.
Next insert "gotten:eng_us,gotten:eng_gb" (no apostrophe) in the textbox replacing the expressions that appeared at the start.
":eng_us" selects American English, and ":eng_gb" selects British
English. Google searches its collection of books to find these statistics.
An Ngram has a heap of specialized functions, so look around once you
have gotten (!) used to it.
Le 14/05/2026 |a 17:36, JNugent a |-crit :
On 14/05/2026 02:33 PM, Hibou wrote:
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
The use of "got" can be more ambiguous.
Do you have an example to hand?
And used in certain senses, it's ugly.
"Gotten" doesn't suffer from that.
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for instance.
I don't think 'gotten' is any better.
It seems to me that the overuse of 'get' is a large part of the problem
- "he's got" seems to have supplanted "he has" etc.. 'Get' in 'forget', 'beget', and so on doesn't seem so inaesthetic. Perhaps the accompanying syllable softens it, too.
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
[...] I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited.
"Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Hibou wrote:
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Le 15/05/2026 |a 08:52, Liz Tuddenham a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use-a "He became ill" etc.
Are they?
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph? content=he+fell+sick%3Aeng_us%2Che+fell+sick%3Aeng_gb&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>
I think they're known on both sides of the Atlantic.
"... he would thus be enabled to go back, perhaps, to his employment in
the town in which he became sick..." - Select Committee on the Medical Act... Amendment... Bill [Lords], House of Commons, 1879.
"He fell sick suddenly..." - Shakespeare, 'King Henry VIII'.
"And after these things he fell sick..." - Maccabees 1.5.
As the Ngram predicts, there are few recent instances (and I'm choosy in whom I quote).
On 15/05/2026 06:14 AM, Hibou wrote:
Le 14/05/2026 |a 17:36, JNugent a |-crit :
The use of "got" can be more ambiguous.
Do you have an example to hand?
The word, depending upon context and sometimes upon adjacent
prepositions, can have various meanings: "acquired", "became",
"arrived", "departed" and others.
"Gotten" implies time and history.
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 09.52 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
afaik gotten is very much active vocabulary in indian english
if i consider
it got better
it's gotten better
i would always prefer the second, perhaps because of the indian penchant
for always conveying a continuous sense
Bertel Lund Hansen posted:
What a weird question, [...]
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Ar an c||igi|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh Liz Tuddenham:
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
[...] I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally
ugly, and I try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it.
Instead of "He got sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick",
or "He became sick", for instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
I donrCOt see much US use of rCLshe fell pregnant.rCY
"He was sick" means that he vomited.
For me thatrCOs specifically England and, while I use the NICE handouts
e.g. for head injury, I am careful to clarify that when they say rCLget sickrCY they mean to vomit.
IrCOm curious as to usage in Australia (and Scotland).
"Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Yes, that has currency here.
What is the English term for "sick leave"?
Le 15/05/2026 |a 08:52, Liz Tuddenham a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use-a "He became ill" etc.
Are they?
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=he+fell+sick%3Aeng_us%2Che+fell+sick%3Aeng_gb&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>
I think they're known on both sides of the Atlantic.
"... he would thus be enabled to go back, perhaps, to his employment in
the town in which he became sick..." - Select Committee on the Medical Act... Amendment... Bill [Lords], House of Commons, 1879.
"He fell sick suddenly..." - Shakespeare, 'King Henry VIII'.
"And after these things he fell sick..." - Maccabees 1.5.
As the Ngram predicts, there are few recent instances (and I'm choosy in whom I quote).
('He grew sick' could be the start of 'He grew sick of', but 'He fell
sick' seems unambiguous.)
"He was sick" means that he vomited.-a "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs!
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 11.58 skrev athel.cb@gmail.com:
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
It was a joke. There are Shia, Sunni and Sikh Moslems.
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 11.58 skrev athel.cb@gmail.com:
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit. >>What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
It was a joke. There are Shia, Sunni and Sikh Moslems.
Well, maybe it would have a roomful of Danes rolling on the floor with laughter,
but it's not remotely a joke where I come from. What have Sikhs got to do with
different sorts of Muslim? They're not Muslim.
How widely is 'lurgy' understood here?
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 11.58 skrev athel.cb@gmail.com:
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
It was a joke. There are Shia, Sunni and Sikh Moslems.
In article <10trnv4$se63$1@dont-email.me>,
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for >on-the-garbage fly collection.
I was wondering who originated that joke, but both Google and Bing
insist that the phrase "on-the-garbage fly collection" does not appear anywhere on the web, which seems most unlikely.
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I thinkI don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes. >>
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Ar an t-aon|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh Richard Tobin:
> In article <10trnv4$se63$1@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
>
> >There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
> >on-the-garbage fly collection.
>
> I was wondering who originated that joke, but both Google and Bing
> insist that the phrase "on-the-garbage fly collection" does not appear
> anywhere on the web, which seems most unlikely.
Nothing on Yandex either, though groups.google.com shows a few posts from Peter. I suspect itrCOs his.
Le 15/05/2026 |a 11:25, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
What is the English term for "sick leave"?
Sick leave. He's off sick. Sick note. Etc.. Sickness does not always
involve technicolour yawns.
How widely is 'lurgy' understood here?
On 15/05/26 20:33, Hibou wrote:
Le 15/05/2026 a 11:25, Peter Moylan a ocrit :
What is the English term for "sick leave"?
Sick leave. He's off sick. Sick note. Etc.. Sickness does not always
involve technicolour yawns.
Thanks.
I've occasionally seen "sick headache", but I think that's American.
On 15/05/26 20:33, Hibou wrote:
Le 15/05/2026 |a 11:25, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
What is the English term for "sick leave"?
Sick leave. He's off sick. Sick note. Etc.. Sickness does not
always involve technicolour yawns.
Thanks.
I've occasionally seen "sick headache", but I think that's American.
Hmm. Usually I hear "I have a headache" or "I have a migraine". I
can't point to a time when I hear "I have a sick headache". I
generally don't mention headaches at all, except in the form of "brain freeze", which happens more often with flavored ices than with ice
cream.
I have sinus issues, but that doesn't usually translate into headaches.
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did >shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over),
but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
On 16/05/26 03:55, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
-a Ar an t-aon|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh Richard Tobin:
-a > In article <10trnv4$se63$1@dont-email.me>,
-a > Peter Moylan-a <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
-a >
-a > >There was a time when computer scientists studied methods for
-a > >on-the-garbage fly collection.
-a >
-a > I was wondering who originated that joke, but both Google and Bing
-a > insist that the phrase "on-the-garbage fly collection" does not
appear
-a > anywhere on the web, which seems most unlikely.
Nothing on Yandex either, though groups.google.com shows a few posts from
Peter. I suspect itrCOs his.
I'd be surprised if I were the first to think of it. It's too obvious.
On 16/05/2026 10:59 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 16/05/26 03:55, Aidan Kehoe wrote:If you were, it would have been before 1978, when I first noticed
Ar an t-aon|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Bealtaine, scr|!obh Richard Tobin:
In article <10trnv4$se63$1@dont-email.me>, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
There was a time when computer scientists studied methods
for on-the-garbage fly collection.
I was wondering who originated that joke, but both Google and
Bing insist that the phrase "on-the-garbage fly collection"
does not appear anywhere on the web, which seems most
unlikely.
Nothing on Yandex either, though groups.google.com shows a few
posts from Peter. I suspect itrCOs his.
I'd be surprised if I were the first to think of it. It's too
obvious.
it. I received in the mail, misaddressed, and with no return address,
a copy of Dijkstra's original paper "On-the-fly Garbage Collection"
and two copies of Ted Nelson's "Computer Lib", one of which I still
have. I note that The GC paper appeared in CACM in November 1978,
after I had seen the pre-prints.
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 14/05/2026 |a-a 17:36, JNugent a |a--crit :
On 14/05/2026 02:33 PM, Hibou wrote:
All right, but why prefer 'gotten' to 'got', the more usual past
participle in BrE?
The use of "got" can be more ambiguous.
Do you have an example to hand?
And used in certain senses, it's ugly.
"Gotten" doesn't suffer from that.
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 09.52 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
I'm sort of with you there. 'To get' is overused, generally ugly, and I
try to avoid it where the idiom doesn't demand it. Instead of "He got
sick", I'd say "He fell sick", "He grew sick", or "He became sick", for
instance.
They are all American - BrE would use "He became ill" etc.
"He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 11.58 skrev athel.cb@gmail.com:
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit.
What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
It was a joke. There are Shia, Sunni and Sikh Moslems.
Bertel Lund Hansen:
Den 15.05.2026 kl. 11.58 skrev athel.cb@gmail.com:
What a weird question, which doesn't seem to have any connection to Liz's point."He was sick" means that he vomited. "Sick" is also a noun for vomit. >>>>What does "Sunni" mean then?
Anyway, she was perfectly correct.
It was a joke. There are Shia, Sunni and Sikh Moslems.
Whooshed me, too.
"Sikh" /sIk/ is closer to the Hindi, but in English it's usually /sik/
(with an EE sound) and doesn't bring to mind "sick" -- or rather "sick" >doesn't bring to mind "Sikh".
The LPD does give /sIk/ as an alternative, and I'm sure there's a tongue >twister that requires it, but that pronunciation isn't familiar enough--
for the joke to work well.
It's probably for the best that English doesn't call a religion or its >adherents "sick", although I understand that in youth slang it's a term
of approbation:
<https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/6fegq3y>
Peter Moylan used thar keyboard to writen:
On 15/05/26 20:33, Hibou wrote:
Le 15/05/2026 |a 11:25, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
What is the English term for "sick leave"?
Sick leave. He's off sick. Sick note. Etc.. Sickness does not always
involve technicolour yawns.
Thanks.
I've occasionally seen "sick headache", but I think that's American.
Hmm. Usually I hear "I have a headache" or "I have a migraine". I
can't point to a time when I hear "I have a sick headache". I
generally don't mention headaches at all, except in the form of "brain >freeze", which happens more often with flavored ices than with ice
cream.
I have sinus issues, but that doesn't usually translate into headaches.
A friend of mine (who has gone to join the Great Majority) said that
when he was at school, they were forbidden to use 'to get'. A wee bit >extreme, perhaps, but useful in prompting a search for better, more
specific words.
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did >shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think
jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over),
but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.]
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
On Fri, 15 May 2026 17:02:59 -0400, The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think >>>>>> jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell jokes. >>>>>I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might have >>>>> done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over),
but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.]
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
Q: What's black and white and staggers?
A: A nun with a knife in her back.
Q: What's a dangerous yellow liquid?
A: Shark-infested custard.
On 16/05/2026 06:51, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2026 17:02:59 -0400, The True Melissa
<thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think >>>>>>> jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell >>>>>>> jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might
have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over),
but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.]
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
Q: What's black and white and staggers?
A: A nun with a knife in her back.
Q: What's a dangerous yellow liquid?
A: Shark-infested custard.
Q: What's green and hairy and goes up and down?
A: A gooseberry in a lift.
Q: What's round and has teeth?
A: A vicious circle.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.orgThat makes two of us.
deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
Den 16.05.2026 kl. 18.38 skrev The True Melissa:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
There isn't one. The point is that it is pointless.
It's warmer in the summer than in the country.
Thus spake The True Melissa:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did
peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
You can't explain a joke. This one is from the category of "not quite
being normal", which is its only source of humor, but it's been around
for a lot longer than I have.
On 16/05/26 18:20, Phil wrote:
On 16/05/2026 06:51, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2026 17:02:59 -0400, The True Melissa
<thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did >>>>> shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think >>>>>>> jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell >>>>>>> jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might >>>>>> have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over),
but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.]
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
Q: What's black and white and staggers?
A: A nun with a knife in her back.
Q: What's a dangerous yellow liquid?
A: Shark-infested custard.
Q: What's green and hairy and goes up and down?
A: A gooseberry in a lift.
Q: What's round and has teeth?
A: A vicious circle.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
But can it clap it?
On 15/05/26 20:58, Phil wrote:
How widely is 'lurgy' understood here?
I've heard it, but not from many people. I can't identify which Goon
show it came from.
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
But can it clap it?
If a duck claps its leg in a forest and there is
nobody there to hear it, does it still fall over?
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
The purpose of language is usually to create an effect in the mind of
the listener or reader. One should choose one's words with that in mind.
Snidely hat am 16.05.2026 um 20:54 geschrieben:
Thus spake The True Melissa:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did
peter@pmoylan.org deliver unto us this message:
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
You can't explain a joke. This one is from the category of "not quite
being normal", which is its only source of humor, but it's been around
for a lot longer than I have.
How old are you? Just asking.
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org
deliver unto us this message:
That makes two of us.Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
athel.cb@gmail.com hat am 16.05.2026 um 18:49 geschrieben:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org >>> deliver unto us this message:That makes two of us.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
Three.
The question is nonsensical and the answer is even more so.
Waiting for comments about my alleged missing sense of humour and what
they say about it to Melissa and Athel.
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | wc -l
95
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | grep -iv begotten | wc -l
70
On 16/05/2026 11:07 a.m., Peter Moylan wrote:
On 15/05/26 20:58, Phil wrote:OED
How widely is 'lurgy' understood here?
I've heard it, but not from many people. I can't identify which Goon
show it came from.
1.
1769rCo
English regional (chiefly Cornwall and northern). In singular and
plural. Frequently with the. Idleness, laziness, esp. regarded
humorously or ironically as a medical condition. Also: a fit of
depression, esp. one caused by a hangover.
2.--
1947-
slang (humorous, originally British Military, now chiefly British, Australian, and New Zealand). A non-specific disease; (in later use) any familiar illness. Frequently with the. Often in the dreaded lurgy. Popularized by the British radio comedy series The Goon Show (1951rCo60), particularly by the 1954 episode rCyLurgi strikes BritainrCO
On Sat, 16 May 2026 19:52:12 +0200, Silvano
<Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
athel.cb@gmail.com hat am 16.05.2026 um 18:49 geschrieben:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org >>>> deliver unto us this message:That makes two of us.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
Three.
The question is nonsensical and the answer is even more so.
Waiting for comments about my alleged missing sense of humour and what
they say about it to Melissa and Athel.
To me, the humor of it is that both the Q and the A are so nonsensical
that they are beyond any attempt to make sense of them.
On 17/05/26 02:49, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org >>> deliver unto us this message:
That makes two of us.Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
It admits of no explanation. You either get it or you don't.
Surreal humour has been around for yonks. It got a boost in the the
1970s, with the Aunty Jack show in Australia and Monty Python in the UK.
But they didn't start it. The Goons used surreal humour long before
that, and even then they were following an existing tradition.
Some British comedians, in particular, flopped in the US because the Americans just couldn't understand what was funny about them.
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
On 16/05/26 18:20, Phil wrote:
On 16/05/2026 06:51, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2026 17:02:59 -0400, The True Melissa
<thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did >>>>>>> shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think >>>>>>>>> jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell >>>>>>>>> jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might >>>>>>>> have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over), >>>>> but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.] >>>>>
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
Q: What's black and white and staggers?
A: A nun with a knife in her back.
Q: What's a dangerous yellow liquid?
A: Shark-infested custard.
Q: What's green and hairy and goes up and down?
A: A gooseberry in a lift.
Q: What's round and has teeth?
A: A vicious circle.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
But can it clap it?
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
But can it clap it?
Can it walk like a duck?
Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> writes:
"Gotten" appears about 25 times in the King James Bible, which, until
about 1950, was probably read every Sunday in most UK churches, so
still within living memory.
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | wc -l
95
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | grep -iv begotten | wc -l
70
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | wc -l
95
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | grep -iv begotten | wc -l
70
In article <8733zr56ft.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | wc -l
95
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | grep -iv begotten | wc -l
70
You have forgotten something.
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | wc -l
95
enoch% grep -i gotten kjv | grep -iv begotten | wc -l
70
There is also "forgotten".
In my text file, I see only 14 hits. Two seem to be footnotes,
|v.1 Cain: that is Gotten, or, Acquired.
. . .
|v.50 gotten: Heb.
, and the other twelve are,
|. . . I have gotten a man from the Lord. . . .
|. . . the souls that they had gotten in Haran . . .
|. . . of that which was our father's hath he gotten all this glory. . .
|. . . all his goods which he had gotten, . . .
|. . . their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan . . .
|. . . when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh . . .
|. . . the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten . . .
|. . . what every man hath gotten . . .
|. . . the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth . .
|. . . if he be gotten into a city, . . .
|. . . And it came to pass, that after we were gotten from them, . . .
|. . . and them that had gotten the victory over the beast . . .
(actually, I got 15 hits missing one when "gotten" appeared
twice in the same sentence).
I think people say American tends to conserve an older form
of English, so it would make sense when older English texts
sound somewhat American.
On 17/05/26 02:49, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> posted:
Verily, in article <10u9gdg$st92$1@dont-email.me>, did peter@pmoylan.org >> deliver unto us this message:
That makes two of us.Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
It admits of no explanation. You either get it or you don't.
Surreal humour has been around for yonks. It got a boost in the the
1970s, with the Aunty Jack show in Australia and Monty Python in the UK.
But they didn't start it. The Goons used surreal humour long before
that, and even then they were following an existing tradition.
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
On 16/05/26 18:20, Phil wrote:
On 16/05/2026 06:51, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2026 17:02:59 -0400, The True Melissa
<thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:
Verily, in article <87jyt5msah.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did
shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> writes:
Verily, in article <87bjejz28o.fsf@mothra.hsd1.ma.comcast.net>, did >>>>> shouman@comcast.net deliver unto us this message:
I almost wrote "schoolchild" there, but thinking back on it I think >>>>>>> jokes were a male-only thing. As far as I knew, girls didn't tell >>>>>>> jokes.
I don't remember schoolgirls telling jokes either, but they might >>>>>> have
done among themselves.
My friends and I told jokes.
I don't suppose you remember any of them?
Q: What's black and white and red all over?
A: The traditional answer is "yesterday's newspaper" (read all over), >>> but there were also a variety of grosser answers, mostly involving
blenders.
Q: What kind of meat does the Pope eat?
A: Nun. [My answer was "holy cow," and I still think mine's better.] >>>
Q: What's long and hard and filled with seamen?
A: A submarine.
Q: What's black and white and staggers?
A: A nun with a knife in her back.
Q: What's a dangerous yellow liquid?
A: Shark-infested custard.
Q: What's green and hairy and goes up and down?
A: A gooseberry in a lift.
Q: What's round and has teeth?
A: A vicious circle.
Q. What's the difference between a duck?
A. One of its legs is both the same.
But can it clap it?
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 65 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 05:44:29 |
| Calls: | 862 |
| Files: | 1,311 |
| D/L today: |
921 files (14,318M bytes) |
| Messages: | 264,603 |
![https://www.fireflash-delta64.co.uk/oka70s[kh]8301.jpg>](https://www.fireflash-delta64.co.uk/oka70s[kh]8301.jpg>){kind=link}