From rCySurvivorrCO Player to Novelist: Stephen Fishbach on the On-Island Epiphany That Led to His Reality TV Book rCyEscape!rCO (Exclusive)
The two-time player details how a number of reality TV producers rCo and
one particular journalist rCo helped fill out the cast of his debut novel.
Jan 26, 2026 12:56 PM EST
By Mike Bloom
TV Editor, Parade
Key Points
-a-a-a Stephen FishbachrCOs reality TV experience inspired his novel Escape!, exploring reality TVrCOs culture.
-a-a-a Fishbach conducted extensive industry research to accurately depict both contestants and producers.
-a-a-a Escape! examines reality TVrCOs impact on contestantsrCO identities and
the allure of renewed fame.
ItrCOs said that writers find inspiration from the most unlikely of
places. For Stephen Fishbach, it was having severe gastrointestinal
distress in the middle of monsoon season.
At the time, Fishbach was playing in Survivor: Cambodia, his second
season of the iconic CBS series. And despite being personified as an archetypical rCLnerdrCY in his reality TV career, he was more of an obsessive with words than numbers. Before arriving back on the beach, he
had been a copywriter, a speechwriter and even a longtime podcasters
about Survivor itself. But, on this fateful night, ideas started pouring
in like the heavy rain around him.
rCLWhile everyone in the shelter is weeping and huddling against each
other, I am stripping off my clothes, not just for fun, but to keep them dry, heading into the monsoon rainstorm, and being violently ill,rCY he recalls in an exclusive interview with Parade. rCLAnd I kind of had this epiphany: If I am willing to do this for reality television, why can I
not pursue the thing that I truly believe in and care about? And then,
when I got back, I was dedicated to writing a novel.rCY
That novel is Escape!, releasing Jan. 27. The culmination of a decade of work, it tells the story of Kent Duvall, a washed-up reality story
looking for a chance to capture his former glory. And he gets that
chance on a new jungle survival show (something not unfamiliar to
Fishbach nor his fans) alongside a myriad of other typical casting
choices seen across the wide world of reality TV. But Fishbach wisely
widens the lens to focus on a variety of characters, both in front of
and behind the camera. The latter includes producer Beck Bermann, who manipulates both the contestants and other members of production, seeing them as mere characters in her own hopeful story of redemption.
Before the release of Escape!, Fishbach talks with Parade about the vociferous research he conducted for his novel, why the timing couldnrCOt
be more perfect for a book about reality TV, and how yours truly surprisingly inspired one of the characters teeming this islandrCOs shores.
The pipeline from reality TV star to writer is not exactly a direct one.
So what inspired you to pursue writing Escape!?
Well, IrCOve always wanted to be a writer, Mike. But I never had the
courage to write fiction. IrCOve written everything else. I wrote advertising copy, I wrote speeches, but fiction always seemed like this
holy thing that I never had the courage to pursue. And then I was in Cambodia, and in the middle of this torrential downpour rCo which IrCOve been calling a monsoon, but IrCOm told technically, itrCOs rCLmonsoon seasonrCY;
the rain itself is not the monsoon, but this torrential monsoon season.
And, as many people know, I had severe gastrointestinal stress. So while everyone in the shelter is weeping and huddling against each other, I am stripping off my clothes, not just for fun, but to keep them dry,
heading into the monsoon rainstorm, and being violently ill. And I kind
of had this epiphany: If I am willing to do this for reality television,
why can I not pursue the thing that I truly believe in and care about?
And then, when I got back, I was dedicated to writing a novel.
I imagine a lot of the inspiration for your novel was pulled from your direct experience on the show. But yourCOve also talked in other
interviews about having worked in a reality producers trade group in the Nonfiction Producers Association. Talk to me more about that, because I imagine that especially informed your writing from the production perspective.
Yeah, I mean, I worked at MTV, where I worked on the network side. So I certainly saw from that perspective, like how we scheduled shows, how we worked with shows. And then I worked with reality TV producers. A lot of that was collating the trends and the in-depth production best
practices. And then also, I was writing up story Bibles for TV shows; thererCOs one in this book. Basically, what happens is the production company will write in advance what is going to happen on the show. Which
I just love, because, you know, a reality show is theoretically
unscripted. But [itrCOs necessary] in order to kind of pitch to the networks.
So IrCOve been on that side too. What is meant to happen, or the drama
that could happen on these shows, they will literally write up episode
by episode. rCLThis character is going to do this, this character is going to do that.rCY And so I just love that thererCOs this inherent tension between this very structured vision that the production company has, and thatrCOs what the network has bought this vision, and whatrCOs happening in front of them with the real people.
WhatrCOs so interesting about Escape! is that yourCOre covering perspectives both in front of and behind the camera, in this rCLupstairs/downstairsrCY type of plot. It doesnrCOt feel like we get that in its entirety outside
of a show like UnREAL.
You know, itrCOs funny. I started writing this book before I even knew
about UnREAL. I mean, thatrCOs how long ago I started writing it. And I
was like, rCLIrCOve got this great story! ItrCOs never been told before.rCY Then
people are like, rCLHave you seen UnREAL?rCY And I was like, rCLI donrCOt want
to hear about this! I donrCOt want to know.rCY But fortunately, now most people have forgotten about UnREAL or look back fondly on it, and are
like, rCLYeah, IrCOd love another UnREALrCY
But what I actually think UnREAL did not do particularly well. I mean,
it was exceptional [in] showing the way production works. I think it was
a little too malevolent. I tried to capture more of the producersrCO humanity in this. But I donrCOt think they got the contestant story, so
they had the upstairs, but I donrCOt know if they had the downstairs as well. And so I was trying to capture some of the depth of the
contestants themselves, which I feel like I am uniquely qualified to do
rCo uniquely with all the thousands of other contestants. [Laughs.]
But that was something that I think is really funny and interesting. The reality show is this sort of inherently kind of frivolous, disposable
thing that, culturally, we sort of laugh at. ItrCOs our guilty pleasure,
but for the contestants, theyrCOre having this crazy, profound, deep human experience. And I like the tension between that silly, ridiculous
product and the profound experience. ItrCOs like IrCOm having a life epiphany while violently sick. And then itrCOs like, rCL#severegastrointestinaldistressrCY! [Laughs.]
I imagine thererCOs also an element of having that epiphany and wondering
in the moment, rCLHow is this going to be presented to millions of people who are watching me?rCY
Yeah, and honestly, of course, when yourCOre out there, yourCOre constantly worried, rCLWhatrCOs my edit like?rCY Especially when yourCOre a returning player. Because I do think with the new players, thererCOs a little bit of like, rCLWow, IrCOm on reality TV!rCY I mean, that was my experience. Like, rCLIrCOm stepping into this huge game. I can do any do anything I want. This is crazy! If I go over here, suddenly thatrCOs a part of the story.rCY ThererCOs this crazy sense of freedom about it.
And I do think when yourCOre a returning player, yourCOre much more aware of, rCLWhat is my story going to be? How will this be portrayed?rCY And itrCOs
interesting too, just having observed producers and worked with
producers, what amazing storytellers they are. They really are turning
real messy human lives into well-structured, three-act stories. And I
think thatrCOs just so interesting.
Obviously, you have your own perspective from your reality TV journey.
But I know you conducted many interviews with people in reality TV for research as well. What was that like?
I didnrCOt want this to be a tell-all about Survivor. I didnrCOt want this to be perceived as like, rCLThis is Stephen sticking it to Survivor!rCY So I really wanted this to be about reality television more broadly. And so I
did talk to contestants from a lot of other shows. I talked to a lot of producers, too. On shows like Naked and Afraid, I talked to one of their EPs. I talked to other jungle production shows.
The show on my book is a little more bare bones than Survivor; itrCOs a smaller crew. And I wanted to kind of capture that too, this sort of
little group thatrCOs huddled there against the sort of huge jungle surrounding them. I mean, Survivor, they build their own city, right? TheyrCOre a whole production edifice. ButI think whatrCOs interesting to me is this little group of people is really quite at the mercy of the huge jungle around them, and, like, still trying to craft this story. But I
did try to get a lot of the little details and little stories and little anecdotes I heard from some of those people into the book. So that it
feels like, at least to me, I see the texture of all these different
true reality stories in this fictional book.
You utilize multiple POV characters in Escape!. But one of your most prominent, Kent, is a former reality TV star whorCOs joined a show in the hopes of trying to recapture the high from his fifteen minutes of fame.
And I imagine it was important to represent that perspective of, rCLI just did this thing that has forever changed my life. How do I chase that high?rCY
Yeah, I mean, you nail it. YourCOve done this thing, and itrCOs probably going to be the most interesting, exciting thing you ever do. And itrCOs something that also people are going to be talking about with you
forever. People still ask me questions about decisions I made in
Tocantins. That was a month of my life 20 years ago, and it was a choice
I made when I was tired and malnourished and had a zillion other things going on. And I made this choice, and thererCOs still Reddit threats about it.
Of course, yourCOre so grateful for that as a person, but it also makes other aspects of your life hard to measure up. And you want to kind of reclaim that greatness so desperately. And I think you see a lot of contestants who have trouble getting away from it, who just want to
relive it again and again and again, and theyrCOre too aware of how real life can never measure up to that. And so that was my character, Kent, I wanted him to kind of embody that. Especially as the sort of alpha male
in his first season, now in his 40s, and kind of still trying to hold
onto this sort of antiquated idea of what it even means to be an alpha
male.
YourCOve been working on this book for over a decade, and the genre of reality TV has changed immensely since 2015. What are some of the
biggest changes you made to Escape! as you were working on it?
I mean, honestly, like, just the format of the show itself changed a
lot. Initially, it was more like Alone-based, where they were literally sitting there waiting, and the last one to be eliminated would go, and
that was super boring. So I was like, rCLThis reality show needs more structure.rCY Honestly, one of the biggest challenges was building a fictional show that felt like it had momentum and stakes within itself,
but not too much. It was more about the characters than it was about
kind of like having to jump through the hoops of the show.
One of the biggest challenges for me writing this book was, literally,
the challenges. Because when I first wrote the challenges, they were
kind of boring. Who cares about a fictional character running an
obstacle course; it didnrCOt feel it didnrCOt feel like vital. And then I sort of had this realization that whatrCOs interesting about reality TV challenges is how much ego is on the line for the contestants. Like the
fact that your whole identity is on the line in the ring toss or the
balance beam. YourCOre like, rCLThe balance beam is who I am.rCY And it means
so much to you. ThererCOs a lot of humor and also, I hope, pathos there.
I also think this is coming out at a point where reality TV is back in
the zeitgeist in a major way. Shows like The Traitors, Dancing with the Stars and Love Island have gone mainstream to the point where reality is
not necessarily regarded as this lesser-than, rCLtrashierrCY genre, compared to the perception it had in the 2010s.
I honestly, really lucked into this world where reality feels like a
super vibrant in terms of being a part of the cultural conversation.
IrCOve been bemoaning that I didnrCOt get this out four years ago. I was endlessly revising, and I was working on short stories, and I was having children. But now it does seem like reality TV is really become a vital
part of the cultural conversation. Certainly, itrCOs become part of our political landscape.
But yes, to your point, thererCOs now this whole world where it used to be you went on a reality show, and that was it; one and done. But I do
think that this explosion of other shows and having a second life as a reality contestant, honestly, it makes the themes I was writing about
more intense. Because there is always this sense that thererCOs another
show out there. My characters, one of them wants to be on The Traitors. Like, rCLIf I do good here, I have a potential opportunity to be cast on
The Traitors.rCY So it does sort of change. It makes it even more meta. It makes the contestants even more self-aware.
It comes full circle back to the days where people would go on Survivor
or The Real World to try to get into the entertainment industry. Now you have celebrities going on Traitors or Dancing with the Stars in the
hopes that it can reinvigorate their careers. And that does represent KentrCOs journey, to a certain extent.
Yeah, thatrCOs exactly right. I mean, you want to allegedly find yourself. But you also want to become this fictionalized version of yourself. You
want to become this character, leave behind the sad, real existence of
going to a job and doing the things that normal people do, and take on
this really cartoonish version of yourself. But you see that the people
who are most successful at doing that do become the most cartoonish, you know? The ones you know, who are able to distill their humanity almost
into a caricature, that you could get on the beach at Venice Beach,
those are the ones who do really well and then go onto all these shows, because theyrCOre easy for the audience to digest. So, if you want that,
you have to sort of warp your complex human existence into this very 2D vision.
Has getting Escape! finally across the finish line given you the desire
to jump into other projects? Any other particular works you have in the pipeline?
I mean, honestly, I didnrCOt think this was going to be my first book. I actually was writing a book of short stories that I really love and IrCOm super proud of, and then theyrCOre tangentially related to reality television. One of the great things I got out of reality TV was like
meeting this range of contestants who have had incredible experiences.
And I thought, rCLYou know what an interesting hook for a story collection is? If every one of those was based on someone.rCY
So IrCOve got a story told from the perspective of a whale trainer. And I got to speak to [Survivor: Ghost Island contestant Morgan Ricke]
extensively for that. And I story from the perspective of a Marilyn
Monroe impersonator. So I got to talk to Sugar Kiper about that. Each of them is a strange, weird world. But fortunately, because I have access
to all these people, I get a really in-depth experience. But anyway, I thought I was going to debut with that story collection. And an agent
said to me, rCLYou are so dumb. YourCOre the Survivor guy! Go with a reality TV book.rCY
To that point, as we approach the bookrCOs release date, I can imagine yourCOre feeling a certain way about putting out your first novel that, while not directly about your experience, is about something that speaks
to that part of your life that we associate you with first and foremost?
Wow, thatrCOs such a profound and lovely question. ThatrCOs really beautiful. It was something where I felt like I wanted to kind of
channel it all. I feel like IrCOve been talking about reality TV, being on reality TV and working around reality TV for so long. And I just wanted
to chant, rCLPut it all into this book.rCY ThererCOs obviously pieces about the rCLwinnerrCOs edit.rCY I wanted these essayistic kind of beats. I wanted to capture some of the depth of the characters. So in some ways, I sort
of love the idea that people are going to see kind of this whole vision
of what I believe and have thought and have experienced through the
reality TV. And, yeah, I mean, itrCOs exciting. It really is exciting.
But Mike, before I lose you, I do have to say that one of my characters
is named after you, which you may know.
I was going to ask about that! I saw there was a character named Miriam Bloom, but I didnrCOt want to presume too much.
I wouldnrCOt say sherCOs based on you, because obviously sherCOs very different than you.
I mean, she starts the game tripping and falling into the waves. That
sounds very me.
[Laughs.] But honestly, it was really I was looking for a last name for
this character. And I was like, rCLWho is earnest and good and [has this] fervor? You know what? Mike Bloom is just the perfect person!rCY And Bloom is a great name for a character whorCOs blossoming while on the on the
show. It felt like a good metaphorical name. But also I wanted a little
bit of a shout-out to someone whom I love dearly and who I know the
whole community loves dearly within the pages of the book.
Source: https://parade.com/tv/survivor-stephen-fishbach-escape-novel-interview
On 1/26/2026 3:09 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
-aFrom rCySurvivorrCO Player to Novelist: Stephen Fishbach on the On-Island >> Epiphany That Led to His Reality TV Book rCyEscape!rCO (Exclusive)
The two-time player details how a number of reality TV producers rCo and
one particular journalist rCo helped fill out the cast of his debut novel. >>
Jan 26, 2026 12:56 PM EST
By Mike Bloom
TV Editor, Parade
Key Points
-a-a-a-a Stephen FishbachrCOs reality TV experience inspired his novel
Escape!, exploring reality TVrCOs culture.
-a-a-a-a Fishbach conducted extensive industry research to accurately
depict both contestants and producers.
-a-a-a-a Escape! examines reality TVrCOs impact on contestantsrCO identities
and the allure of renewed fame.
ItrCOs said that writers find inspiration from the most unlikely of
places. For Stephen Fishbach, it was having severe gastrointestinal
distress in the middle of monsoon season.
At the time, Fishbach was playing in Survivor: Cambodia, his second
season of the iconic CBS series. And despite being personified as an
archetypical rCLnerdrCY in his reality TV career, he was more of an
obsessive with words than numbers. Before arriving back on the beach,
he had been a copywriter, a speechwriter and even a longtime
podcasters about Survivor itself. But, on this fateful night, ideas
started pouring in like the heavy rain around him.
rCLWhile everyone in the shelter is weeping and huddling against each
other, I am stripping off my clothes, not just for fun, but to keep
them dry, heading into the monsoon rainstorm, and being violently
ill,rCY he recalls in an exclusive interview with Parade. rCLAnd I kind of >> had this epiphany: If I am willing to do this for reality television,
why can I not pursue the thing that I truly believe in and care about?
And then, when I got back, I was dedicated to writing a novel.rCY
That novel is Escape!, releasing Jan. 27. The culmination of a decade
of work, it tells the story of Kent Duvall, a washed-up reality story
looking for a chance to capture his former glory. And he gets that
chance on a new jungle survival show (something not unfamiliar to
Fishbach nor his fans) alongside a myriad of other typical casting
choices seen across the wide world of reality TV. But Fishbach wisely
widens the lens to focus on a variety of characters, both in front of
and behind the camera. The latter includes producer Beck Bermann, who
manipulates both the contestants and other members of production,
seeing them as mere characters in her own hopeful story of redemption.
Before the release of Escape!, Fishbach talks with Parade about the
vociferous research he conducted for his novel, why the timing
couldnrCOt be more perfect for a book about reality TV, and how yours
truly surprisingly inspired one of the characters teeming this
islandrCOs shores.
The pipeline from reality TV star to writer is not exactly a direct
one. So what inspired you to pursue writing Escape!?
Well, IrCOve always wanted to be a writer, Mike. But I never had the
courage to write fiction. IrCOve written everything else. I wrote
advertising copy, I wrote speeches, but fiction always seemed like
this holy thing that I never had the courage to pursue. And then I was
in Cambodia, and in the middle of this torrential downpour rCo which
IrCOve been calling a monsoon, but IrCOm told technically, itrCOs rCLmonsoon
seasonrCY; the rain itself is not the monsoon, but this torrential
monsoon season.
And, as many people know, I had severe gastrointestinal stress. So
while everyone in the shelter is weeping and huddling against each
other, I am stripping off my clothes, not just for fun, but to keep
them dry, heading into the monsoon rainstorm, and being violently ill.
And I kind of had this epiphany: If I am willing to do this for
reality television, why can I not pursue the thing that I truly
believe in and care about? And then, when I got back, I was dedicated
to writing a novel.
I imagine a lot of the inspiration for your novel was pulled from your
direct experience on the show. But yourCOve also talked in other
interviews about having worked in a reality producers trade group in
the Nonfiction Producers Association. Talk to me more about that,
because I imagine that especially informed your writing from the
production perspective.
Yeah, I mean, I worked at MTV, where I worked on the network side. So
I certainly saw from that perspective, like how we scheduled shows,
how we worked with shows. And then I worked with reality TV producers.
A lot of that was collating the trends and the in-depth production
best practices. And then also, I was writing up story Bibles for TV
shows; thererCOs one in this book. Basically, what happens is the
production company will write in advance what is going to happen on
the show. Which I just love, because, you know, a reality show is
theoretically unscripted. But [itrCOs necessary] in order to kind of
pitch to the networks.
So IrCOve been on that side too. What is meant to happen, or the drama
that could happen on these shows, they will literally write up episode
by episode. rCLThis character is going to do this, this character is
going to do that.rCY And so I just love that thererCOs this inherent
tension between this very structured vision that the production
company has, and thatrCOs what the network has bought this vision, and
whatrCOs happening in front of them with the real people.
WhatrCOs so interesting about Escape! is that yourCOre covering
perspectives both in front of and behind the camera, in this
rCLupstairs/downstairsrCY type of plot. It doesnrCOt feel like we get that >> in its entirety outside of a show like UnREAL.
You know, itrCOs funny. I started writing this book before I even knew
about UnREAL. I mean, thatrCOs how long ago I started writing it. And I
was like, rCLIrCOve got this great story! ItrCOs never been told before.rCY >> Then people are like, rCLHave you seen UnREAL?rCY And I was like, rCLI donrCOt
want to hear about this! I donrCOt want to know.rCY But fortunately, now
most people have forgotten about UnREAL or look back fondly on it, and
are like, rCLYeah, IrCOd love another UnREALrCY
But what I actually think UnREAL did not do particularly well. I mean,
it was exceptional [in] showing the way production works. I think it
was a little too malevolent. I tried to capture more of the producersrCO
humanity in this. But I donrCOt think they got the contestant story, so
they had the upstairs, but I donrCOt know if they had the downstairs as
well. And so I was trying to capture some of the depth of the
contestants themselves, which I feel like I am uniquely qualified to
do rCo uniquely with all the thousands of other contestants. [Laughs.]
But that was something that I think is really funny and interesting.
The reality show is this sort of inherently kind of frivolous,
disposable thing that, culturally, we sort of laugh at. ItrCOs our
guilty pleasure, but for the contestants, theyrCOre having this crazy,
profound, deep human experience. And I like the tension between that
silly, ridiculous product and the profound experience. ItrCOs like IrCOm
having a life epiphany while violently sick. And then itrCOs like,
rCL#severegastrointestinaldistressrCY! [Laughs.]
I imagine thererCOs also an element of having that epiphany and
wondering in the moment, rCLHow is this going to be presented to
millions of people who are watching me?rCY
Yeah, and honestly, of course, when yourCOre out there, yourCOre
constantly worried, rCLWhatrCOs my edit like?rCY Especially when yourCOre a >> returning player. Because I do think with the new players, thererCOs a
little bit of like, rCLWow, IrCOm on reality TV!rCY I mean, that was my
experience. Like, rCLIrCOm stepping into this huge game. I can do any do
anything I want. This is crazy! If I go over here, suddenly thatrCOs a
part of the story.rCY ThererCOs this crazy sense of freedom about it.
And I do think when yourCOre a returning player, yourCOre much more aware >> of, rCLWhat is my story going to be? How will this be portrayed?rCY And
itrCOs interesting too, just having observed producers and worked with
producers, what amazing storytellers they are. They really are turning
real messy human lives into well-structured, three-act stories. And I
think thatrCOs just so interesting.
Obviously, you have your own perspective from your reality TV journey.
But I know you conducted many interviews with people in reality TV for
research as well. What was that like?
I didnrCOt want this to be a tell-all about Survivor. I didnrCOt want this >> to be perceived as like, rCLThis is Stephen sticking it to Survivor!rCY So >> I really wanted this to be about reality television more broadly. And
so I did talk to contestants from a lot of other shows. I talked to a
lot of producers, too. On shows like Naked and Afraid, I talked to one
of their EPs. I talked to other jungle production shows.
The show on my book is a little more bare bones than Survivor; itrCOs a
smaller crew. And I wanted to kind of capture that too, this sort of
little group thatrCOs huddled there against the sort of huge jungle
surrounding them. I mean, Survivor, they build their own city, right?
TheyrCOre a whole production edifice. ButI think whatrCOs interesting to
me is this little group of people is really quite at the mercy of the
huge jungle around them, and, like, still trying to craft this story.
But I did try to get a lot of the little details and little stories
and little anecdotes I heard from some of those people into the book.
So that it feels like, at least to me, I see the texture of all these
different true reality stories in this fictional book.
You utilize multiple POV characters in Escape!. But one of your most
prominent, Kent, is a former reality TV star whorCOs joined a show in
the hopes of trying to recapture the high from his fifteen minutes of
fame. And I imagine it was important to represent that perspective of,
rCLI just did this thing that has forever changed my life. How do I
chase that high?rCY
Yeah, I mean, you nail it. YourCOve done this thing, and itrCOs probably
going to be the most interesting, exciting thing you ever do. And itrCOs
something that also people are going to be talking about with you
forever. People still ask me questions about decisions I made in
Tocantins. That was a month of my life 20 years ago, and it was a
choice I made when I was tired and malnourished and had a zillion
other things going on. And I made this choice, and thererCOs still
Reddit threats about it.
Of course, yourCOre so grateful for that as a person, but it also makes
other aspects of your life hard to measure up. And you want to kind of
reclaim that greatness so desperately. And I think you see a lot of
contestants who have trouble getting away from it, who just want to
relive it again and again and again, and theyrCOre too aware of how real
life can never measure up to that. And so that was my character, Kent,
I wanted him to kind of embody that. Especially as the sort of alpha
male in his first season, now in his 40s, and kind of still trying to
hold onto this sort of antiquated idea of what it even means to be an
alpha male.
YourCOve been working on this book for over a decade, and the genre of
reality TV has changed immensely since 2015. What are some of the
biggest changes you made to Escape! as you were working on it?
I mean, honestly, like, just the format of the show itself changed a
lot. Initially, it was more like Alone-based, where they were
literally sitting there waiting, and the last one to be eliminated
would go, and that was super boring. So I was like, rCLThis reality show
needs more structure.rCY Honestly, one of the biggest challenges was
building a fictional show that felt like it had momentum and stakes
within itself, but not too much. It was more about the characters than
it was about kind of like having to jump through the hoops of the show.
One of the biggest challenges for me writing this book was, literally,
the challenges. Because when I first wrote the challenges, they were
kind of boring. Who cares about a fictional character running an
obstacle course; it didnrCOt feel it didnrCOt feel like vital. And then I >> sort of had this realization that whatrCOs interesting about reality TV
challenges is how much ego is on the line for the contestants. Like
the fact that your whole identity is on the line in the ring toss or
the balance beam. YourCOre like, rCLThe balance beam is who I am.rCY And it >> means so much to you. ThererCOs a lot of humor and also, I hope, pathos
there.
I also think this is coming out at a point where reality TV is back in
the zeitgeist in a major way. Shows like The Traitors, Dancing with
the Stars and Love Island have gone mainstream to the point where
reality is not necessarily regarded as this lesser-than, rCLtrashierrCY
genre, compared to the perception it had in the 2010s.
I honestly, really lucked into this world where reality feels like a
super vibrant in terms of being a part of the cultural conversation.
IrCOve been bemoaning that I didnrCOt get this out four years ago. I was
endlessly revising, and I was working on short stories, and I was
having children. But now it does seem like reality TV is really become
a vital part of the cultural conversation. Certainly, itrCOs become part
of our political landscape.
But yes, to your point, thererCOs now this whole world where it used to
be you went on a reality show, and that was it; one and done. But I do
think that this explosion of other shows and having a second life as a
reality contestant, honestly, it makes the themes I was writing about
more intense. Because there is always this sense that thererCOs another
show out there. My characters, one of them wants to be on The
Traitors. Like, rCLIf I do good here, I have a potential opportunity to
be cast on The Traitors.rCY So it does sort of change. It makes it even
more meta. It makes the contestants even more self-aware.
It comes full circle back to the days where people would go on
Survivor or The Real World to try to get into the entertainment
industry. Now you have celebrities going on Traitors or Dancing with
the Stars in the hopes that it can reinvigorate their careers. And
that does represent KentrCOs journey, to a certain extent.
Yeah, thatrCOs exactly right. I mean, you want to allegedly find
yourself. But you also want to become this fictionalized version of
yourself. You want to become this character, leave behind the sad,
real existence of going to a job and doing the things that normal
people do, and take on this really cartoonish version of yourself. But
you see that the people who are most successful at doing that do
become the most cartoonish, you know? The ones you know, who are able
to distill their humanity almost into a caricature, that you could get
on the beach at Venice Beach, those are the ones who do really well
and then go onto all these shows, because theyrCOre easy for the
audience to digest. So, if you want that, you have to sort of warp
your complex human existence into this very 2D vision.
Has getting Escape! finally across the finish line given you the
desire to jump into other projects? Any other particular works you
have in the pipeline?
I mean, honestly, I didnrCOt think this was going to be my first book. I
actually was writing a book of short stories that I really love and
IrCOm super proud of, and then theyrCOre tangentially related to reality
television. One of the great things I got out of reality TV was like
meeting this range of contestants who have had incredible experiences.
And I thought, rCLYou know what an interesting hook for a story
collection is? If every one of those was based on someone.rCY
So IrCOve got a story told from the perspective of a whale trainer. And
I got to speak to [Survivor: Ghost Island contestant Morgan Ricke]
extensively for that. And I story from the perspective of a Marilyn
Monroe impersonator. So I got to talk to Sugar Kiper about that. Each
of them is a strange, weird world. But fortunately, because I have
access to all these people, I get a really in-depth experience. But
anyway, I thought I was going to debut with that story collection. And
an agent said to me, rCLYou are so dumb. YourCOre the Survivor guy! Go
with a reality TV book.rCY
To that point, as we approach the bookrCOs release date, I can imagine
yourCOre feeling a certain way about putting out your first novel that,
while not directly about your experience, is about something that
speaks to that part of your life that we associate you with first and
foremost?
Wow, thatrCOs such a profound and lovely question. ThatrCOs really
beautiful. It was something where I felt like I wanted to kind of
channel it all. I feel like IrCOve been talking about reality TV, being
on reality TV and working around reality TV for so long. And I just
wanted to chant, rCLPut it all into this book.rCY ThererCOs obviously pieces
about the rCLwinnerrCOs edit.rCY I wanted these essayistic kind of beats. I >> wanted to capture some of the depth of the characters. So in some
ways, I sort of love the idea that people are going to see kind of
this whole vision of what I believe and have thought and have
experienced through the reality TV. And, yeah, I mean, itrCOs exciting.
It really is exciting.
But Mike, before I lose you, I do have to say that one of my
characters is named after you, which you may know.
I was going to ask about that! I saw there was a character named
Miriam Bloom, but I didnrCOt want to presume too much.
I wouldnrCOt say sherCOs based on you, because obviously sherCOs very
different than you.
I mean, she starts the game tripping and falling into the waves. That
sounds very me.
[Laughs.] But honestly, it was really I was looking for a last name
for this character. And I was like, rCLWho is earnest and good and [has
this] fervor? You know what? Mike Bloom is just the perfect person!rCY
And Bloom is a great name for a character whorCOs blossoming while on
the on the show. It felt like a good metaphorical name. But also I
wanted a little bit of a shout-out to someone whom I love dearly and
who I know the whole community loves dearly within the pages of the book.
Source: https://parade.com/tv/survivor-stephen-fishbach-escape-novel-
interview
I again have to say that with so many actual survivor contestants
talking and writing about their actual experiences, I really have no interest or need in reading Fishbach's fictional or even semi-fictional account.
I think Stephen owes a big debt of gratitude to his RHAP buddy Mike
Bloom for shilling for his book like this.
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