From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism

On 4/12/2026 8:14 PM, dart200 wrote:

On 4/12/26 7:53 PM, Dude wrote:

On 4/12/2026 6:58 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:

Your body is your property and your property is a natural right to >>>>>> labor, or not. You own the fruits of your labor. It is both a natural >>>>>> right and a legal right, at least in the US.

Article 17 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights
includes a
right to property.

Still repeating that shit?

We studied this in school, back in the 5th grade. We are all equal
under
the law.

Are you able to read English? It's in the United States Library of
Congress.

Tell me that a car has 4 wheels. Unless it is a 3 wheeler.

Logical fallacy. Where's Creon?

shut up dud, u don't fking care

The question now is are you smarter than a 5th grader?

A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy that presents
only two extreme, opposing options, even though many more possibilities
exist. It simplifies complex situations into an "either/or" choice to
force a specific decision. Examples include "yourCOre either with us or against us" or "you either love it or hate it.

I'm almost positive that's a false dichotomy. Where's Creon?

The US 14th Amendment protects against the deprivation of life,
liberty,
or property without due process.

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From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Dude posted in to a.p.t.:

The question now is are you smarter than a 5th grader?

Depends on the 5th grader.
Reminds me of how a Tao can be and not be.

A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy that presents
only two extreme, opposing options, even though many more possibilities exist. It simplifies complex situations into an "either/or" choice to
force a specific decision. Examples include "yourCOre either with us or against us" or "you either love it or hate it.

There's a symbol of a sort
with yin and yang like two fish,
each of which has an eye of the other.

In the Chuang-tzu is a tale of happy fish.
A question of epistemology was explored.

- thanks! Cheers!
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From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


aye posted:

Dude posted in to a.p.t.:

The question now is are you smarter than a 5th grader?

Depends on the 5th grader.
Reminds me of how a Tao can be and not be.

Some saying say the tao that is told, or spoken
isn't Chang Tao. What the word, Chang, means
could include various ideas, e.g. always.

Like, a 5th grader could be smarter,
compared to me naturally, in ways.

In fact, many probably are.
Depending on what the word, smart, means.
Lots of them could probably be better at games
for example, like chess. Or solving a cube.
Or doing mathematics.

A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy that presents only two extreme, opposing options, even though many more possibilities exist. It simplifies complex situations into an "either/or" choice to force a specific decision. Examples include "yourCOre either with us or against us" or "you either love it or hate it.

There's a symbol of a sort
with yin and yang like two fish,
each of which has an eye of the other.

A circular argument arrives in mind at this time.

In the Chuang-tzu is a tale of happy fish.
A question of epistemology was explored.

Zz said he knew by seeing them. Watching
them dart around near the dam where they were.

- thanks! Cheers!

- for the time beings. Cheers!
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From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


eye posted:

aye posted:

Dude posted in to a.p.t.:

A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy that presents only two extreme, opposing options, even though many more possibilities exist. It simplifies complex situations into an "either/or" choice to force a specific decision. Examples include "yourCOre either with us or against us" or "you either love it or hate it.

There's a symbol of a sort
with yin and yang like two fish,
each of which has an eye of the other.

A circular argument arrives in mind at this time.

Those fish probably are not disagreeing
nor having an argument. Perhaps they are at play.

In the Chuang-tzu is a tale of happy fish.
A question of epistemology was explored.

Zz said he knew by seeing them. Watching
them dart around near the dam where they were.

A wonder may be which is yang and which yin
if either are either naturally or both.

Not the yin-yang fish in the circle that is
that are, yet rather the ones in real life
in the fictional story, if it was fiction,
when Huizi and Zz were strolling along at
the Hao River Dam site.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
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From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


aye posted:

eye posted:

aye posted:

In the Chuang-tzu is a tale of happy fish.
A question of epistemology was explored.

Zz said he knew by seeing them. Watching
them dart around near the dam where they were.

A wonder may be which is yang and which yin
if either are either naturally or both.

Not the yin-yang fish in the circle that is
that are, yet rather the ones in real life
in the fictional story, if it was fiction,
when Huizi and Zz were strolling along at
the Hao River Dam site.

In the tale of the happy fish, the "original"
words used to describe the scene are carefully chosen
to mirror the menrCOs actions with the fishrCOs movements.

Beyond the puns on y||u (strolling/swimming) and -Un (how/where),
two other key phrases or words play into the meaning of the tale:

1. C||ngr||ng (E+Ao<|) rCo Leisurely and At Ease
When Zhuangzi first observes the fish,
he describes them as "coming out and swimming c||ngr||ng".

The Meaning: This word translates to "unhurried," "at ease," or "composed."
It describes a visible, outward bearing rather than just an internal emotion.

The Play: Zhuangzi and Huizi are also meant to be strolling
in this exact c||ngr||ng manner. By using this specific term,
Zhuangzi is suggesting that the "happiness" he sees is
not a hidden psychological state he is guessing at,
but a style of movementrCoa "leisurely" way of being
that he and the fish are sharing in that moment.

2. Ti|io (oa|/o>e) rCo The Type of Fish
The fish in the story are specifically identified as ti|io-fish.
tO+o|atO+toa
tO+o|atO+toa

The Identification: Most translators
identify these as white minnows or small dace.

The Play: In Classical Chinese, the character for these fish (ti|io)
is phonetically and visually related to words meaning "slender," "long,"
or "darting". The choice of a small, darting minnowrCorather than
a large, heavy fishrCoemphasizes the light, "easy" movement
that Zhuangzi is admiring. It reinforces the theme
of effortless action (wuwei) that is central to his philosophy.

3. L|? (u?e) rCo Joy/Music
The word for "happiness" used throughout the debate is l|?.

The Play: In Chinese, this character also means music.
Some scholars argue that when Zhuangzi says the fish are "happy,"
he is describing the harmony or the "music" of their movements in the water. To him, happiness isn't a logical conclusion; it is a spontaneous, "musical" expression of life that is immediately apparent to anyone who is also "at ease".

By using these terms, the text creates a complete "parallel lifestyle"
between the philosopher and the minnows, making his final claimrCo
that he knows they are happy because he is there with themrCo
feel like a natural observation rather than a logical leap.

- Gemini
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From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

L|? (u?e) rCo Joy/Music
The word for "happiness" used throughout the debate is l|?.

The Play: In Chinese, this character also means music.
Some scholars argue that when Zhuangzi says the fish are "happy,"
he is describing the harmony or the "music" of their movements in the water. To him, happiness isn't a logical conclusion; it is a spontaneous, "musical" expression of life that is immediately apparent to anyone who is also "at ease".

Music is, at times, instrumental.
Without words, it goes without saying.
Yet there may be strings, of the heart
plucked or pulled by the sounds. Feelings.

By using these terms, the text creates a complete "parallel lifestyle" between the philosopher and the minnows, making his final claimrCo
that he knows they are happy because he is there with themrCo
feel like a natural observation rather than a logical leap.

Music, with words, could be philosophical.
Wandering in wonder, with ease, going
without going any where in particular until
the music stops, so to speak.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
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