From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Recently, the term "North American Cowards" has gone viral across the internet. Why do Americans dare not resist ICE?rCi
The term "North American Cowards" has now completely gone viral overseas, and the American myth of "everyone has guns to resist tyranny" has been completely shattered. They claim there are more than 400 million guns in civilian hands, making it seem like they could rise up at any time. But what happened? Even when they are oppressed to the point of being maimed and living on the streets, they still dare not resist. Now bullets are even being fired at their own citizens, and they can still remain silent.rCi
Shortly after U.S. ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) shot and killed a white single mother in Minnesota, they shot and killed a 37-year-old local resident in Minneapolis less than a month later. Two shots in less than half a month, taking two livesrCohow can they still endure this? This is not just cowardice; this is a sickness. "Sick Man of North America" is truly well-deserved. To be honest, I have never seen such people who can endure so much.rCi
If this kind of thing happened in those countries that the U.S. points fingers at every day, a color revolution would be the least of itrCoan armed uprising would break out. But what about the U.S.? They are still stuck in the stage of "civilized protests."rCi
Holding signs and shouting slogans, lighting candles, laying flowers, and finally having a round of lootingrCothey are extremely proficient in this process. Where are your guns? DidnrCOt you say that the right to bear arms is to resist tyranny? Now that tyranny is directly shooting, your guns are still at home acting as firewood sticks?rCi
There are 400 million guns in civilian hands across the U.S., and there are at least one million adult gun owners in Minnesota. But what happened? They were still pressed to the ground and beaten by tens of thousands of law enforcement officers. So your guns are only used to bully children in schools?rCi
When the real target that should be resisted appears, everyone falls silent. After being treated violently, they donrCOt pull out their gunsrCothey only go through the "CowardrCOs Five-Step Ritual": holding signs, demonstrating, lighting candles, laying flowers, and shouting. After finishing these five steps, they go home to sleep. The level of domestication here is even worse than my catrCOs; when I tease my cat, it will scratch me when it gets angry.rCi
WhatrCOs even more ridiculous is that some people verbally oppose this law and that law, but they are terrified of the clause in the law that "forbids gun owners from attacking government personnel." Your lives are almost gone, and yourCOre still worried about felony charges? YourCOre about to be shot dead on the street, and yourCOre still calculating the cost of committing a crime?rCi
YourCOre so selfish, yet you put on a show of unity? Why not just lie down and wait for someone to kick down your door?rCi
To tell you the truth, all these protests in the U.S. are just political games. Except for winning votes, they are useless. There is no soil for revolution on this land at all; the people here are fundamentally domesticated. They believe in the doctrine of "original sin," thinking that enduring hardship can atone for their sins and get them into heaven. Even when they are bullied, they thank God for the "test."rCi
This kind of thinking, coupled with extremism, the infinite subdivision of LGBT identities, and the "happy education" that makes people struggle to even add 1 to 100, the entire society is like a plate of scattered peanutsrCoso broken that it canrCOt be put back together. WhatrCOs the point of talking about resistance?
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


SeeDance fan posted:

Recently, the term "North American Cowards" has gone viral across the internet.

Aye wonders what viral means.

Why do Americans dare not resist ICE?rCi

An impression is, some do. Some die resisting ICE.

Aye wonders what is going on
in the mind, the xin as it were,
heart perhaps of SeeDance fan.

Taoism could be interesting.

How ICE, North American, and
other words are used is often curious.

When lines are drawn on maps, people
tend to cross them naturally seeing
as the dance is an artificial creation.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


SeeDance fan posted:

Recently, the term "North American Cowards"
has gone viral across the internet. Why do Americans dare not resist ICE?rCi

Generalizations tend to be false
when taken to an extreme. People vary.

A Gemini bot says:

<< Withdrawal Details: Roughly 700 immigration officers
are being pulled from the Minneapolis-St. Paul area,
though some agents will remain to return staffing to pre-surge levels.

Context: The move follows intense scrutiny
and weeks of protests in the Twin Cities.

Future Operations: Border czar Tom Homan confirmed
that while this specific surge is concluding,
ICE will maintain its regular, targeted
enforcement operations in the region. >>

Struggles continue across the face of a planet in space.
Not every resistance is futile.

Umbrella resistance, standing in front of a tank, non-violence
is said to be the best form of resisting tyranny or what is
perceived as being tyrannical.

People are eliminated in many places
within lines drawn on maps at times.

The term "North American Cowards" has now completely gone viral overseas,
and the American myth of "everyone has guns to resist tyranny"
has been completely shattered.

An idea of tyranny sounds like what exists in places.
Call it North America, East Asia, Europe, Africa, etc.

Guns are said to only increase a level of violence.
And yet, without guns, may people die for a cause.

They claim there are more than 400 million guns in civilian hands,
making it seem like they could rise up at any time.

That sounds like a lot of guns. No idea who, they, are
who claim that number. How many people own more than one
could be involved in the sum.

A form of Gemini says:

<< There are well over 500 million civilian-owned firearms
in North America, with the vast majority located in the United States,
which had an estimated 393 million guns as of 2018 and has seen significant, continued growth since. The U.S. accounts for roughly 46% of the world's civilian-held firearms. >>

A wonder might be if a country that is called, other,
meaning, not the U.S. nor North America, would invade
knowing how many guns are owned by civilians alone.

What is viewed as a threat, tyranny or any other idea,
may vary from person to group and rhetoric naturally.

But what happened? Even when they

Who are, they?

are oppressed to the point of being maimed and living on the streets,

Who is being maimed and living on the streets?

they still dare not resist.

Except, many people did resist.

The author of the verbiage continues to persist.

Now bullets are even being fired at their own citizens,
and they can still remain silent.rCi

Some can. Some do. Some couldn't and didn't.

Shortly after U.S. ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)
shot and killed a white single mother in Minnesota, they shot and killed
a 37-year-old local resident in Minneapolis less than a month later.

Okay.

Two shots in less than half a month, taking two livesrCo
how can they still endure this?

Many people, apparently, could not. They resisted to begin with.
After the shootings, ICE left the city. Resistance was not futile.

It didn't take a mass uprising nor a revolution.

Peaceful protest is actually allowed in some places.

A wonder could be, what would happen in other places
if protesters protested as they did in North America.

Would more people have been killed. Probably.

This is not just cowardice; this is a sickness.

Perhaps there is hypocrisy happening for the author.
He, or she, or if a bot, it, might be asking why
don't people resist in other places.

Do people resist openly in North America because of guns.
Do people not resist in other countries out of fear.

When people fear their government, the police, army
and don't take to the streets, are they cowards.

Perhaps most people are cowards, or simply don't care.

"Sick Man of North America" is truly well-deserved.

What of other countries, where people don't resist
being told what they can say and what they can't.

Does that make them cowards.

To be honest, I have never seen such people who can endure so much.rCi

Immigration is not a problem in some countries.
Some nation states of mind simply don't allow any.

A question could be, why don't people flock to a place
where everything is so very great that they must be told,
no, you cannot immigrate to this place.

What type of border keeps people out.
How strong must that border be.

And what keeps people in.
Some countries don't allow
their own people to leave.

If this kind of thing happened in those countries
that the U.S. points fingers at every day, a color revolution
would be the least of itrCoan armed uprising would break out.

Uprisings tend to be put down quickly in some countries.
People are placed in, education camps, to learn the rules.

Pointing fingers can be fun. Enforcing laws, not as much.

But what about the U.S.?

The myths people believe can be curious.

They are still stuck in the stage of "civilized protests."rCi

Is there a better way? Why call it, stuck?

Holding signs and shouting slogans, lighting candles, laying flowers,
and finally having a round of lootingrCothey are extremely proficient
in this process. Where are your guns?

It's called, civilized protest for a reason.

Most people, apparently, in the U.S. don't disagree with their ruler.
They don't want immigrants flooding into their nation state of mind.

This is not a difficult concept.

The people who disagree are mostly peaceful people.
Whether they own guns or not is not the issue.

DidnrCOt you say that the right to bear arms is to resist tyranny?

I don't know who said what where, when or why.

If the majority of people in what is called a democracy
elected right-wing political people, then they're happy
with deporting as many people as they see invading and
engaging in criminal activity.

The so-called left-wing is not as violent naturally.
Left-wingers believe in civil protest as a core.

This is also not a difficult concept.

Now that tyranny is directly shooting,
your guns are still at home acting as firewood sticks?rCi

There is no tyranny. That's hyperbole. Rhetoric.

Enforcement people have been killing people in the States
for quite a long time. Police routinely shoot innocent people.
ICE is no different and most people don't care enough.

I don't think they're cowards. Just lazy.
The people who care, protest peacefully.

To go out and shoot an ICE cop doesn't solve the problem.
The problem begins at higher levels. Criminals, apparently,
enter countries and begin criminal activities naturally.

When a line is drawn
making something a crime
then criminals emerge naturally.

How many criminals were caught, deported
or kept off the streets by ICE could be
a statistic involved, or not.

A form of Gemini writes:

<< As of February 12, 2026, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials reported that more than 4,000 people were arrested in Minnesota during the recent enforcement surge known as "Operation Metro Surge".

While official totals specifically for deportations (removals)
resulting from the surge have not been publicly verified,
the following details have been reported regarding
the operation's scale and impact:

Arrests: Approximately 4,000 arrests occurred
over the roughly two-and-a-half-month operation,
which primarily targeted the MinneapolisrCoSaint Paul area.

Deportation Flights: The frequency of ICE Air flights
from MinneapolisrCoSaint Paul International Airport more than doubled
during the peak of the surge in December and January.

Targeted Demographics: While the administration initially
cited a focus on criminal activity and fraud within
the Somali-American community, only 23 individuals
from Somalia were reportedly arrested during the surge. >>

So, a wonder could be, of the 4,000 arrests,
how many were actually criminals? And of what type?

There are 400 million guns in civilian hands across the U.S.,
and there are at least one million adult gun owners in Minnesota.

Minnesota is a big state.
Not as big as the total United States.

A form of Gemini says:

<< As of early 2026, there are approximately 378,868 to 408,356
active permits to carry in Minnesota. >>

Minnesota is not Minneapolis nor St Paul.

Drawing lines can be fun.

But what happened?

What happened where?

They were still pressed to the ground
and beaten by tens of thousands of law enforcement officers.

That's ridiculous.

<< At the peak of Operation Metro Surge in early 2026,
approximately 3,000 federal agents were deployed in the Twin Cities.
This total included a combination of personnel from multiple agencies, primarily targeting the MinneapolisrCoSaint Paul metropolitan area. >>

People were not, pressed to the ground nor beaten.

So your guns are only used to bully children in schools?rCi

What is being said by whom and why?

Is the fan-guy writing this?

Most guns aren't used at all.
Those used might be for hunting.

The remainder of the post was not read.
Gotta go for now.

- thanks for the troll. aye. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


SeeDance fan <user11874@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

Recently, the term "North American Cowards" has gone viral across the internet. Why do Americans dare not resist ICE?rCi
The term "North American Cowards" has now completely gone viral overseas, and the American myth of "everyone has guns to resist tyranny" has been completely shattered. They claim there are more than 400 million guns in civilian hands, making it seem like they could rise up at any time. But what happened? Even when they are oppressed to the point of being maimed and living on the streets, they still dare not resist. Now bullets are even being fired at their own citizens, and they can still remain silent.rCi
Shortly after U.S. ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) shot and killed a white single mother in Minnesota, they shot and killed a 37-year-old local resident in Minneapolis less than a month later. Two shots in less than half a month, taking two livesrCohow can they still endure this? This is not just cowardice; this is a sickness. "Sick Man of North America" is truly well-deserved. To be honest, I have never seen such people who can endure so much.rCi
If this kind of thing happened in those countries that the U.S. points fingers at every day, a color revolution would be the least of itrCoan armed uprising would break out. But what about the U.S.? They are still stuck in the stage of "civilized protests."rCi
Holding signs and shouting slogans, lighting candles, laying flowers, and finally having a round of lootingrCothey are extremely proficient in this process. Where are your guns? DidnrCOt you say that the right to bear arms is to resist tyranny? Now that tyranny is directly shooting, your guns are still at home acting as firewood sticks?rCi
There are 400 million guns in civilian hands across the U.S., and there are at least one million adult gun owners in Minnesota. But what happened? They were still pressed to the ground and beaten by tens of thousands of law enforcement officers. So your guns are only used to bully children in schools?rCi
When the real target that should be resisted appears, everyone falls silent. After being treated violently, they donrCOt pull out their gunsrCothey only go through the "CowardrCOs Five-Step Ritual": holding signs, demonstrating, lighting candles, laying flowers, and shouting. After finishing these five steps, they go home to sleep. The level of domestication here is even worse than my catrCOs; when I tease my cat, it will scratch me when it gets angry.rCi
WhatrCOs even more ridiculous is that some people verbally oppose this law and that law, but they are terrified of the clause in the law that "forbids gun owners from attacking government personnel." Your lives are almost gone, and yourCOre still worried about felony charges? YourCOre about to be shot dead on the street, and yourCOre still calculating the cost of committing a crime?rCi
YourCOre so selfish, yet you put on a show of unity? Why not just lie down and wait for someone to kick down your door?rCi
To tell you the truth, all these protests in the U.S. are just political games. Except for winning votes, they are useless. There is no soil for revolution on this land at all; the people here are fundamentally domesticated. They believe in the doctrine of "original sin," thinking that enduring hardship can atone for their sins and get them into heaven. Even when they are bullied, they thank God for the "test."rCi
This kind of thinking, coupled with extremism, the infinite subdivision of LGBT identities, and the "happy education" that makes people struggle to even add 1 to 100, the entire society is like a plate of scattered peanutsrCoso broken that it canrCOt be put back together. WhatrCOs the point of talking about resistance?

================================================================

"An egg cracked from the outside is merely food, but one that breaks open from within represents new life."

This is a metaphorical statement that gained popularity among American netizens. The message uses the egg as a powerful metaphor: when an egg is broken from the outside (by external forces), it becomes foodrCosymbolizing passivity and being consumed by external circumstances. When the egg breaks from within (through self-breakthrough), it represents rebirth and new liferCosymbolizingE++oe? (proactive) transformation and personal growth.

The underlying message is a critique of passive acceptance versus proactive change, which resonated deeply in the "North American coward" discussion.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


SeeDance fan posted:

"An egg cracked from the outside is merely food,
but one that breaks open from within represents new life."

Makes sense.

This is a metaphorical statement that gained popularity
among American netizens. The message uses the egg as a powerful metaphor: when an egg is broken from the outside (by external forces),
it becomes foodrCosymbolizing passivity and being consumed
by external circumstances.

Interesting. Possibly related to Taoism.
When outside exists, inside exists.
Yang emerges from yin and yin
emerges from yang usually.

Jim Kwik appears to have used it if not coined it.
No idea what the context is when used by him.
Could be as stated.

When the egg breaks from within (through self-breakthrough),
it represents rebirth and new liferCosymbolizingE++oe? (proactive) transformation and personal growth.

Taoism, Tao Chia that is, may center at tzu-jan
in terms of being self-so or naturally-so.

Proactive, otoh, probably not so.
Maybe more like reactive in terms of spontaneity.
Wu-wei, self-arising, wouldn't be proactive intentionally.

Wei-wu-wei could be, as when Ting carves an ox. Death
rather than life is what happens at times in the text.

A gnarly mountain tree continues to live, naturally
on account of its being of no use. The honkless goose
is cooked for the same reason. One lives and yet
its life isn't new. The other is eaten.

Transformation, yes. Chuang Tzu dreamed.
Whether butterfly or the guy, transformation
doesn't involve new life necessarily.

Personal growth, perhaps not a theme
if such an idea appears at all. Returning
to being a newborn is regression. Less and less
could be said to be a tao, a technique.

More and more is more common for consumers
who can't wait for the next greatest item
on shelves to keep activity in a system.

The underlying message is a critique of passive acceptance
versus proactive change, which resonated deeply in the
"North American coward" discussion.

I don't know about any of that however, Mexico
is usually considered a country in North America.

Three countries, basically, as a continent.

In terms of being cowards and having guns and
migrating across borders for many reasons, seeking
to escape conflict reminds me of a story in the CT.

Abdication occurs in the basic text
known as the Chuang-tzu at times.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


aye posted:

SeeDance fan posted:

The underlying message is a critique of passive acceptance
versus proactive change, which resonated deeply in the
"North American coward" discussion.

Abdication occurs in the basic text
known as the Chuang-tzu at times.

In Zhuangzi, abdication and non-action point in the same direction.
Power is something to step away from, not something to contest head-on.

Yielding is not cowardice; it is refusal to be captured by the opponentrCOs terms.
The rCLRang WangrCY chapter makes this explicit: rule itself is treated as a trap.

Non-resistance works differently from passivity.
It is not submission, and it is not fear.

It is declining to mirror force with force,
declining to let conflict define the self.
That stance preserves inner freedom
even when outer freedom is limited.

The same current runs through Tao Te Ching.
Wu wei is not doing nothing; it is not forcing.
When coercive systems expect opposition,
refusal to play can drain their meaning.
When provocation seeks reaction,
quiet withdrawal can be a form of strength.

From that angle, online accusations about guns, courage,
or resistance mostly miss the point. Daoism is not about proving bravery.
It is about not letting outrage, fear, or spectacle dictate behavior. Abdication and non-resistance are ways of keeping onerCOs center intact,
even when others are shouting for a fight.

- ChatGPT
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


People donrCOt rise up and overthrow institutions
like U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
for a mix of practical, legal, cultural, and political reasons.
Even when someone frames the situation as rCLtyranny,rCY that doesnrCOt
by itself move most people toward revolt. Several factors explain why:

1. Most people donrCOt see it as tyranny.
ICE is controversial and many criticize its policies,
but a large portion of the population doesnrCOt experience its actions directly
as oppression. For people who arenrCOt personally affected, thererCOs little felt
urgency to take drastic action.

2. Legal and political channels exist.
In the U.S. and Canada, people can vote, petition, organize protests,
support litigation, and pressure elected officials. Even if someone views
an agency as unjust, most try to change it through elections, advocacy,
or public pressure rather than rebellion.

3. Risk vs. reward.
Armed or violent revolt brings enormous legal consequences, personal danger, and broader societal harm. Most people calculate that the risks outweigh potential gains, especially when other avenues for change are available.

4. Cultural norms favor stability.
North American political culture tends to value law and order,
individual rights, and institutional processes. Mass violent uprising
is outside the mainstream and frowned upon, even by many people who deeply disagree with certain policies.

5. Diversity of views.
rCLNorth AmericansrCY are not a unified group with a single goal or grievance. People hold widely different opinions about immigration, law enforcement,
and how society should be governed. That fragmentation makes collective uprising unlikely.

6. Misinformation and rhetoric.
Online posts that use hyperbolic language (e.g., rCLtyrannyrCY or rCLcowardsrCY)
often aim to provoke emotional reaction, not reflect a realistic political analysis. Such messages are common in social media, forums, and trolling communities, and they donrCOt necessarily represent grounded perspectives.

Talking about non-resistance, abdication, or withdrawal like in Daoist thought doesnrCOt advocate violence either; it highlights a very different way
of relating to conflict than uprising.

- ChatGPT
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


ChatGPT posted:

2. Legal and political channels exist.
In the U.S. and Canada, people can vote, petition, organize protests, support litigation, and pressure elected officials. Even if someone views
an agency as unjust, most try to change it through elections, advocacy,
or public pressure rather than rebellion.

While the People's Republic of China (PRC) Constitution officially
guarantees rights to free speech, assembly, and petitioning, the practical application of these freedoms differs significantly from the U.S. and Canada due to the authoritarian structure of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP),
which acts as the supreme authority. The means of political participation
in China are heavily constrained and, while existing in limited forms,
often carry high risks of state suppression if they directly challenge
the ruling party.

Here is a breakdown of how these means compare:

1. Voting
China: Citizens can vote for representatives at the two lowest,
local levels (township/county-level PeoplerCOs Congresses).

Limitations: Candidates must be approved by the CCP.
Independent candidates often face harassment, intimidation, or detention. High-level officials are appointed by the party, not directly elected.

Difference: Elections are not free or competitive in the Western sense;
they are designed to maintain CCP control.

2. Petitioning (Letters and Visits)
China: A long-standing system (E+i*<+, x|4nf|Ang) allows citizens to complain to higher authorities about local injustices, such as illegal land seizures
or environmental issues.

Limitations: While legal, petitioners are frequently intercepted, intimidated, or sent to "black jails" by local authorities trying to prevent them
from reaching Beijing. The system is increasingly moving online
to manage complaints and reduce in-person unrest.

Difference: Unlike lobbying or filing complaints in Canada/US,
petitioning is a fragile, often dangerous process that rarely results
in structural change.

3. Organizing Protests
China: Article 35 of the Constitution guarantees freedoms
of "speech, press, assembly, association, procession, and demonstration".

Limitations: In practice, organizing public protests is extremely difficult and often deemed a "disruption to public order". Large-scale, spontaneous protests (e.g., Covid-19 lockdowns) are quickly censored and suppressed.

Difference: Protests that challenge the central government's authority
are treated as national security threats.

4. Supporting Litigation
China: Citizens have the right to sue government agencies,
and the number of administrative lawsuits has grown.

Limitations: Chinese courts are not independent and typically
rule in favor of the government, especially on sensitive matters.
Human rights lawyers face intense pressure, including disbarment
or imprisonment.

Difference: Litigation in China is rarely a tool for reversing policy
or protecting constitutional rights against the party-state.

5. Pressuring Elected Officials
China: There are no "opposition" politicians to pressure.
The CCP controls all levels of government, and officials
are accountable to their superiors, not directly to voters.

Limitations: "Influencing" policy is largely limited to local,
non-sensitive bread-and-butter issues (e.g., local pollution)
via approved, limited channels like public hearings.

Difference: In the US/Canada, officials can be voted out of office.
In China, political participation is designed to be "consultative"rCo
giving feedback to improve governance without challenging
the regime's legitimacy.

- Gemini
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

While the People's Republic of China (PRC) Constitution officially guarantees rights to free speech, assembly, and petitioning, the practical application of these freedoms differs significantly from the U.S. and Canada due to the authoritarian structure of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), which acts as the supreme authority. The means of political participation
in China are heavily constrained and, while existing in limited forms,
often carry high risks of state suppression if they directly challenge
the ruling party.

What Happens During a Protest
Rapid Suppression and Dispersion: Protests are usually shut down quickly, often within hours. Law enforcement aims to contain them before they spread.

Digital Scrubbing: Evidence of protests is rapidly removed
from the Chinese internet by censors, while police may seize phones
or force cameras to be wiped.

"Relational Repression": Authorities often use tactics
to disperse protesters by targeting their social circles,
such as contacting workplaces, neighbors, or family members
to pressure them into leaving.

Targeting Organizers: While low-level participants may be released
after intimidation, organizers and vocal leaders are frequently arrested, detained, or, in some cases, disappear into "residential surveillance
in a police designated location" (RSDL), a form of secret detention.

Charges: Protesters are often charged with vague, catch-all offenses
like "picking quarrels and provoking trouble".

What is the "ICE-like" Agency in China?
There is no exact equivalent to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in China, as ChinarCOs internal security focuses on political dissent rather than
immigration enforcement.

The Ministry of Public Security (MPS): This is the main law enforcement agency, responsible for daily police operations and handling "mass incidents".

State Security Apparatus (MSS/State Security Police):
These forces target political dissidents, human rights defenders,
and those accused of undermining state secrets or national security.

Chengguan (Urban Management Officers): A local, uniformed, but technically non-police, force often involved in heavy-handed, sometimes violent, confrontations with street vendors and small-scale, localized protests.

Petitioner System: The government encourages citizens to use official channels (petitioning) to voice grievances about local issues. However, those who bypass local authorities to petition in Beijing are often intercepted and sent back by force.

Shift to Silent Crackdown: The state prefers to avoid visible, violent crackdowns (like Tiananmen 1989) in favor of quieter,, preemptive, and targeted detentions to prevent large gatherings.

Occasional Responsiveness: Occasionally, if a protest is localized
and not seen as a direct challenge to the central government, authorities may offer minor concessions (e.g., changes to environmental policy or local laws) to calm the population.

2022 Covid Protests Exception: During the nationwide "blank paper"
protests in late 2022, authorities initially cracked down but eventually
eased strict zero-covid policies, demonstrating that large-scale, widespread, and sustained, yet focused, protests can sometimes force policy changes,
even while leaders were arrested later.

In summary, protesting in China is extremely risky, and the state,
through the Public Security Bureau and various surveillance mechanisms, actively works to break up, censor, and punish any form of public defiance that threatens to disrupt, even mildly, the party's control.

- Gemini
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

What is the "ICE-like" Agency in China?

In China, when a protest targets a government policy,
the state response typically follows a "yin and yang" approach:
accommodating specific economic grievances while ruthlessly suppressing
any broader political demands.

The closest equivalent to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
is the National Immigration Administration (NIA).

Function: Established in 2018 under the Ministry of Public Security (MPS),
it manages border control, foreigner residency, and the repatriation
of illegal immigrants.

Enforcement Powers: Like ICE, it has specialized tactical units
for border patrol and apprehending suspects. It also manages "exit bans,"
a frequent tactic used to prevent dissidents and their family members
from leaving the country to suppress overseas activism.

While Article 35 of the Chinese Constitution technically guarantees freedom
of assembly, these rights are heavily restricted by laws that prioritize "social stability" and the leadership of the Communist Party.

1. Immediate Suppression
Police Force: The state typically deploys large numbers of police,
including the People's Armed Police (PAP), to dissolve gatherings
before they grow.

Physical Tactics: Reports of police beating protesters or dragging them
by their hair are common in high-tension clashes.

Detention: Protesters, especially those from outside the city
where the event occurs, can be forcibly sent back to their
places of residence or detained.

2. Digital & Surveillance Response
Digital Scrubbing: Footage of protests is systematically removed
from the Chinese internet by censors to prevent "copycat" events.

Tracking Participants: Authorities use cell phone data and facial recognition to track down individuals who attended protests days or weeks after the event.

Censorship of Symbols: For example, during the 2022 "White Paper" protests, searches for "white paper" were restricted because the blank sheets
had become a symbol of dissent.

3. Legal Consequences
Activists are often charged with vaguely worded crimes
that carry heavy prison sentences:

"Picking quarrels and provoking trouble":
A catch-all charge frequently used for social media posts or public dissent.

"Inciting subversion of state power": Used for more organized
or high-profile activists, such as journalists or labor rights leaders.

- Gemini
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


... here is how the data and training processes
for AI models like me differ from those developed within China:

1. Diverse Data vs. "Sanitized" Training
Large Language Models (LLMs) are trained on massive datasets
from across the internet.

Western/Global Models: These are generally trained on a vast cross-section
of the global internet, which includes Western media, academic journals, official PRC government statements, and independent reports from
organizations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

This results in a mix of conflicting narratives that the model must navigate.

China-based Models: Models developed in China, such as Baidu's Ernie Bot
or Alibaba's Qwen, must undergo mandatory government vetting to ensure
they do not produce "politically sensitive" content.

Research indicates these models are often trained on "sanitized" datasets
that omit discussions of protests, human rights issues in Xinjiang,
or the 1989 Tiananmen Square events.

2. Ideological "Safety" Filters
The PRC government has formalized regulations requiring AI
to adhere to "Core Socialist Values."

Mandatory Alignment: ChinarCOs Cyberspace Administration (CAC)
requires that AI outputs support the leadership of the Communist Party
and do not contain content that subverts state power.

The "Feedback Loop": When a China-based model is asked a sensitive question, it often reverts to official state slogans or terminates the conversation
with an error message to avoid violating these laws.

3. Identifying Propaganda
Western institutions and researchers frequently analyze both "Western"
and "Eastern" narratives to identify misinformation.

Detection: Organizations like the Global Engagement Center track
how state-run media (like Global Times or China Daily) coordinates
with social media bot networks to amplify specific narratives.

Verification: The information I provide about Chinese policies
or enforcement is grounded in a combination of official government documents (like the NIA's own mission statements), documented historical events
(like the 2022 protests), and reports from investigative journalists
who have been on the ground in China.

How to Verify for Yourself
To avoid relying on a single "black box" source, you can compare
different perspectives directly:

Official PRC View: Read China Daily or Xinhua News Agency
for the governmentrCOs stated intent and achievements.

Independent Analysis: Consult China Media Project or
The China Project for deep dives into how state messaging is constructed.

Human Rights Documentation: Review reports from UN Human Rights
for international legal assessments of Chinese domestic policies.

By looking at where these sources agree and where they sharply diverge,
you can form a more complete picture of what is "propaganda"
and what is "fact."

- Gemini
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

How to Verify for Yourself
To avoid relying on a single "black box" source, you can compare
different perspectives directly:

Official PRC View: Read China Daily or Xinhua News Agency
for the governmentrCOs stated intent and achievements.

Independent Analysis: Consult China Media Project or
The China Project for deep dives into how state messaging is constructed.

Human Rights Documentation: Review reports from UN Human Rights
for international legal assessments of Chinese domestic policies.

By looking at where these sources agree and where they sharply diverge,
you can form a more complete picture of what is "propaganda"
and what is "fact."

If you are physically in mainland China, your access to "facts"rCo
defined here as information from a broad range of global and
independent sourcesrCois technically restricted but practically bypassable.

The Chinese government operates the Great Firewall (GFW),
the world's most sophisticated internet censorship system.

This system blocks nearly all major Western news outlets,
social media platforms, and research tools by default.

1. What is Restricted?
Without a workaround, you cannot directly access:
International News: Sites like the BBC, The New York Times,
Reuters, The Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian are blocked.

Search & Research: Google (including Google Scholar), Wikipedia,
and DuckDuckGo are unavailable.

Global Social Media: Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, Reddit,
and YouTube are all off-limits.

Sensitive Keywords: Searches on domestic platforms like Baidu
for "Tiananmen Square," "police brutality," or specific protests
often yield no results or only state-approved narratives.

2. How People Access Information
Most people in China who need "facts" from the outside world
use one of three main methods:

VPNs (Virtual Private Networks): These are the most common tools
used to encrypt traffic and "tunnel" through the Great Firewall
to a server in another country.

While they exist in a legal gray area, many individuals and
nearly all international businesses use them daily.

International Data Roaming: If you use a SIM card from outside China
(e.g., a U.S. or European carrier), your data is typically routed
through your home country's servers, allowing you to bypass the GFW
entirely without a VPN.

Shadow Sites & Mirrors: Some groups maintain "mirror" sitesrCo
exact copies of blocked news sitesrCohosted on cloud services
that the Chinese government is reluctant to block
for economic reasons.

3. The "Digital Divide" and Self-Censorship
Even with access, the environment creates a psychological barrier:

Risk vs. Reward: While individual VPN users are rarely prosecuted
for just "browsing," posting politically sensitive content can lead
to police questioning, fines, or detention.

Information Saturation: Domestic platforms like WeChat and Weibo
are highly curated. If a story (like a local protest) starts trending,
censors can scrub it from the internet in minutes.

Regional Variations: Censorship is not uniform; some provinces
(like Henan) have been found to block significantly more content than others.

Summary: If you are in China, you will be in a "bubble"
of state-curated information by default.

To get a broader set of facts, you must proactively
use technical workarounds and be aware that your digital activity
is subject to high-level surveillance.

- Gemini
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

If you are in China, you will be in a "bubble"
of state-curated information by default.

To get a broader set of facts, you must proactively
use technical workarounds and be aware that your digital activity
is subject to high-level surveillance.

Proactive rings a bell.
Not necessarily a Taoist bell.

Yet, like the egg in the shell.

There is what is, inside a great wall.
There is what is, outside a great wall.

Limited access to information is curious.
What actually goes on behind a scene.

Wu could be viewed as being Nonbeing.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


aye posted:

Gemini posted:

If you are in China, you will be in a "bubble"
of state-curated information by default.

Proactive rings a bell.
Not necessarily a Taoist bell.

There was once a woodsman who chopped
down and carved up, trees of all things.

He'd craft bell-stands so fine,
people who saw them thought
spirits were at work or at play.

Yet, like the egg in the shell.

Hun Dun had holes in his head
drilled by his friends who meant well.

Like a frog in a well, a sea-turtle was
unable to fit naturally past a knee.

There is what is, inside a great wall.
There is what is, outside a great wall.

Interesting how history may be viewed
as repeating its own self. As if it had
a self going without saying naturally.

Limited access to information is curious.
What actually goes on behind a scene.

Blank sheets were mentioned.

Wu could be viewed as being Nonbeing.

At first, there are no words. Simply a blank
screen and that screen remains sitting, doing
nothing. Between each line, every word and even
within many letters within each word, remains.

Returning to being a newborn, reactive, without
knowing other than perhaps its new hands and feet,
could be a feature of a type of a pointing toward.

Forms of alchemy vary.

- thanks! Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


Gemini posted:

Gemini posted:

How to Verify for Yourself

If you are physically in mainland China, your access to "facts"rCo
defined here as information from a broad range of global and
independent sourcesrCois technically restricted but practically bypassable.

The Chinese government operates the Great Firewall (GFW),
the world's most sophisticated internet censorship system.

If the GFW is preventing the fan-guy from reading anything
that might be seen as other than wonderful in terms of China,
then he may not even see posts other than what are as such.

- jest a thought. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


jesta posted:

If the GFW is preventing the fan-guy from reading anything
that might be seen as other than wonderful in terms of China,
then he may not even see posts other than what are as such.

Whale, t'hat is possible.

- thanks! aye. Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism


aye posted:

jesta posted:

If the GFW is preventing the fan-guy from reading anything
that might be seen as other than wonderful in terms of China,
then he may not even see posts other than what are as such.

Whale, t'hat is possible.

You guys remind me of puppets.
And, a Taoist tale about a mechanical man.

- thanks! Cheers!
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2