• Execution: Edward Busby

    From David Carson@davidc@wa-wd.com to alt.obituaries on Tue May 26 11:21:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Edward Lee Busby Jr., 53, was executed by lethal injection on 14 May
    2026 in Huntsville, Texas for the robbery and murder of a woman he
    abducted from a parking lot.

    On Friday, 30 January 2004, Busby, then 31, and Kathleen "Kitty"
    Latimer, 39, abducted Laura Crane, 78, from a grocery store parking
    lot in Fort Worth. Busby wrapped 23 feet of duct tape tightly around
    the victim's head, covering her nose and mouth, placed her in the
    trunk of her car, and stole the car. The victim died of asphyxiation.
    A statement made at Busby's trial implies that she died while Busby
    and Latimer were inside a hotel room.

    Busby drove the victim's car to Oklahoma and disposed of her body.

    On 1 February, Officer Padgett of the Oklahoma City Police Department
    arrested Busby after stopping him for committing several traffic
    violations while driving the victim's car.

    Busby gave statements to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Oklahoma
    police, and Fort Worth detectives about the victim and her car.
    Initially, he claimed that he and Latimer obtained the car from
    someone named "JD" with the victim in the trunk and that they merely
    disposed of the body in Oklahoma. On 3 February, Busby led the police
    to the victim's body. At that location, he made a verbal,
    tape-recorded statement in which he abandoned the JD story and
    admitted that he and Latimer abducted, robbed, and killed the victim.

    Busby was returned to Fort Worth on 19 February. The following day, he
    repeated the elements of his verbal confession in writing. In both his
    verbal and written confessions, Busby stated several times that he did
    not mean to kill the victim. He repeated this statement in a press
    conference he gave that day.

    At Busby's trial, the defense argued that Busby was acting at
    Latimer's direction and that he did not intend to kill the victim.

    Busby had a previous felony conviction for manufacture and delivery of
    drugs. In 2000, he was charged with first-degree aggravated kidnapping
    and aggravated robbery. He was convicted on lesser, second-degree
    felony charges and sent to prison. He was released in 1999. He also
    had misdemeanor convictions for burglary of a vehicle and evading
    arrest.

    A jury convicted Busby of capital murder in November 2005 and
    sentenced him to death. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed
    the conviction and sentence in May 2008.

    Kathleen Latimer was sentenced to life in prison in February 2006. She
    remains in custody as of this writing. She could be eligible for
    parole in 2034, when she would be 69 years old.

    Busby's appellate lawyers raised claims that he was intellectually
    disabled and that his court-appointed attorney had rendered
    ineffective assistance. The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals held a
    hearing on these claims and denied them in June 2018.

    Busby had previously been scheduled for execution in 2020 and again in
    2021. Both scheduled execution dates were lifted on orders related to
    his appeals. The 2021 stay was based on an intellectual disability
    claim.

    On the day before Busby's actual execution, the Fifth Circuit issued a
    stay of execution pending the outcome of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling
    in another case with an intellectual disability claim. The Supreme
    Court lifted the Fifth Circuit's stay about two hours after Busby's
    execution had been scheduled to begin.

    In his last statement, Busby addressed the witnesses who attended on
    his victim's behalf. "Sir, Ma'am, I am so sorry," he began. "I ask
    that you please, please don't hate me and that you can find it in your
    heart to forgive me for the part that I played in what happened to
    her. Ms. Crane was a lovely woman. I never meant anything bad to
    happen to her. I am so sorry, I am so, so sorry, but I fell asleep and
    don't know what happened." Busby continued in this vein, repeating
    that he was sorry and asking for forgiveness. He also urged his sister
    to "please surrender your life to God and change."

    "I'm here now because this is the will of God, and I'm going home to
    be with Jesus," Busby said in conclusion. "I will see you on the other
    side. Glory be to God; all praises be to my Father God. I'm ready,
    Warden." The lethal injection was then started. He was pronounced dead
    at 8:11 p.m.

    David Carson
    Sources: Texas Department of Criminal Justice, court documents,
    Associated Press, fox4news.com.
    --
    Texas Execution Information
    www.txexecutions.org
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Tue May 26 17:58:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:

    Edward Lee Busby Jr., 53, was executed by lethal injection on 14 May
    2026 in Huntsville, Texas for the robbery and murder of a woman he
    abducted from a parking lot. . . .

    I'm posting in this thread because of a complaint against a Canadian
    doctor administering MAID to a terminal cancer patient who began the
    procedure, despite not having all three drugs. It appears to be a
    similar protocol to death penalty executions.

    One of the drugs induces coma which, in an adequately high dose,
    typically causes respiration to cease. Another drug is a paralytic. I
    never understood why a paralytic is used if the person whose life is
    being ended is to die from the induced coma.

    The doctor obtained the drugs from a pharmacy in a kit, but failed to
    check the contents of the kit before leaving the pharmacy.

    When he began the procedure, he still failed to notice that one of the
    drugs was missing, the paralytic.

    He stayed just long enough to pronounce death from the induced coma,
    then left. The patient then resumed breathing.

    Now I understand the purpose of the paralytic.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/ontario-man-dies-of-maid-after-being-assessed-outside-tim-hortons

    In the case of this execution, sounds like it went smoothly.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Shaw@mshaw@panix.com to alt.obituaries on Tue May 26 19:06:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:

    Busby had a previous felony conviction for manufacture and delivery of
    drugs. In 2000, he was charged with first-degree aggravated kidnapping
    ~~~~
    and aggravated robbery. He was convicted on lesser, second-degree
    felony charges and sent to prison. He was released in 1999.
    ~~~~
    Something's wrong here....
    --
    Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm ========================================================================
    "Anyway, we delivered the bomb."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From SURNAME@SURNAME@panix.removethispart.com (J.D. Baldwin) to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 12:46:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries


    In the previous article, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    He stayed just long enough to pronounce death from the induced coma,
    then left. The patient then resumed breathing.

    Now I understand the purpose of the paralytic.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/ontario-man-dies-of-maid-after-being-assessed-outside-tim-hortons

    First off, that URL summary is the most Canadian thing ever.

    Second: N2 asphyxiation. Accept no substitutes. It has all advantages
    and no drawbacks.
    --
    jd
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Carson@davidc@wa-wd.com to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 08:02:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Tue, 26 May 2026 17:58:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
    <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:

    Edward Lee Busby Jr., 53, was executed by lethal injection on 14 May
    2026 in Huntsville, Texas for the robbery and murder of a woman he
    abducted from a parking lot. . . .

    I'm posting in this thread because of a complaint against a Canadian
    doctor administering MAID to a terminal cancer patient who began the >procedure, despite not having all three drugs. It appears to be a
    similar protocol to death penalty executions.

    One of the drugs induces coma which, in an adequately high dose,
    typically causes respiration to cease. Another drug is a paralytic. I
    never understood why a paralytic is used if the person whose life is
    being ended is to die from the induced coma.

    Texas switched away from the three-drug lethal injection protocol in 2011, about the same time most other states did. Executions are now performed
    using one drug, pentobarbital.

    David Carson
    --
    Dead or Alive Data Base
    http://www.doadb.com
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 13:53:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In article <10v6p37$ovn$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    J.D. Baldwin <news@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:

    In the previous article, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    He stayed just long enough to pronounce death from the induced coma,
    then left. The patient then resumed breathing.

    Now I understand the purpose of the paralytic.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/ontario-man-dies-of-maid-after-being-assessed-outside-tim-hortons

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    First off, that URL summary is the most Canadian thing ever.

    Heh heh. Good one.

    Second: N2 asphyxiation. Accept no substitutes. It has all advantages
    and no drawbacks.

    Unfortunately, there are still problems.

    First of all, even if the N2 method is, in theory, entirely painless, the
    fact is that it (the process) still has to be administered, which means you need a room and a mask and suitable safety precautions, with the result
    that the victim knows what is happening as it is happening, and that terror
    is unavoidable (and, some would say, an intended part of the punishment).

    The problem described above just seems to be unavoidable, no matter what we come up with.

    Second, there are (at least) 3 levels of death-penalty objectors:

    1) Those who just think it is wrong regardless. That if we kill you
    because you killed someone else, that makes us no better than you. The
    problem with this is that if you follow it to its logical conclusion,
    the whole criminal justice system falls apart (as well, incidentally,
    as the justification for the military).

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully convicted"
    problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one who will at some
    future time be found to be not guilty will ever be executed, then it
    would be OK.

    3) Those who worry about the actual nitty-gritty details of the
    procedure (i.e., the 8th Amendment). These people would be OK with it
    if we could somehow perfect the process.

    My sense is that at least some people claim to be in group 3, which they
    use as cover for really being in either group 1 or group 2.
    --
    Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from demanding more
    flag burning laws, more abortion laws, more drug laws, more obscenity
    laws, and more police authority to make warrantless arrests to remind
    us that we need to "get the government off our backs".
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From danny burstein@dannyb@panix.com to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 13:56:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In <10v6t17$3esgp$1@news.xmission.com> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying
    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 14:07:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In article <10v6t6b$5mp$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    In <10v6t17$3esgp$1@news.xmission.com> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny >McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Heh heh. I though it would be something like that, but was unable to
    reverse engineer the acronym.

    I suppose I could have Googled it. Or Alexa'd it. Or (ick!) ChatGPT'd it.
    --
    Many (most?) Trump voters voted for him because they thought if they
    supported Trump enough, they'd get to *be* Trump.

    Similarly, Trump believes that if *he* praises Putin enough, he'll get to *be* Putin.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Carson@davidc@wa-wd.com to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 09:36:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Tue, 26 May 2026 11:21:17 -0500, David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com>
    wrote:

    Busby had a previous felony conviction for manufacture and delivery of
    drugs. In 2000, he was charged with first-degree aggravated kidnapping
    and aggravated robbery. He was convicted on lesser, second-degree
    felony charges and sent to prison. He was released in 1999. He also
    had misdemeanor convictions for burglary of a vehicle and evading
    arrest.

    The Department of Public Safety data base has arrests, charges, and convictions. The Department of Criminal Justice data base has
    sentences and release dates. These two data bases mesh about as well
    as one would expect, and often require interpretation to sort out. I
    think I have now done that for this individual.

    Replace the above with:

    Busby's criminal record shows seven arrests between 1997 and his
    arrest for Laura Crane's murder. He had a felony conviction for drug possession, for which he served 14 months in state jail from 1998 to
    1999. He also had felony convictions for aggravated kidnapping and
    aggravated robbery, for which he served 2 years in prison from 2000 to
    2002. He had misdemeanor convictions for evading arrest, burglary of a
    vehicle, and driving with a suspended license.

    David Carson
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Wed May 27 18:19:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:
    Tue, 26 May 2026 17:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote: >>David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:

    Edward Lee Busby Jr., 53, was executed by lethal injection on 14 May
    2026 in Huntsville, Texas for the robbery and murder of a woman he >>>abducted from a parking lot. . . .

    I'm posting in this thread because of a complaint against a Canadian
    doctor administering MAID to a terminal cancer patient who began the >>procedure, despite not having all three drugs. It appears to be a
    similar protocol to death penalty executions.

    One of the drugs induces coma which, in an adequately high dose,
    typically causes respiration to cease. Another drug is a paralytic. I
    never understood why a paralytic is used if the person whose life is
    being ended is to die from the induced coma.

    Texas switched away from the three-drug lethal injection protocol in 2011, >about the same time most other states did. Executions are now performed
    using one drug, pentobarbital.

    Why isn't it used for MAID, then?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 05:30:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

    Second, there are (at least) 3 levels of death-penalty objectors:

    1) Those who just think it is wrong regardless. That if we kill you
    because you killed someone else, that makes us no better than you. The
    problem with this is that if you follow it to its logical conclusion,
    the whole criminal justice system falls apart (as well, incidentally,
    as the justification for the military).

    I am in group 1 and suspect those who excuse capital punishment of
    false logic (misrepresenting a reductio ad absurdum as a "logical
    conclusion" rather than recognizing the proper place to draw lines).

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully convicted"
    problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one who will at some
    future time be found to be not guilty will ever be executed, then it
    would be OK.

    3) Those who worry about the actual nitty-gritty details of the
    procedure (i.e., the 8th Amendment). These people would be OK with it
    if we could somehow perfect the process.

    My sense is that at least some people claim to be in group 3, which they
    use as cover for really being in either group 1 or group 2.


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 05:31:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    In <10v6t17$3esgp$1@news.xmission.com> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 02:22:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    In <10v6t17$3esgp$1@news.xmission.com> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    I disagree completely, having had a number of friends die in horrible and painful ways. I definitely do not want to die painfully and slowly and would appreciate assistance in dying rapidly and painlessly should I be in that situation.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 06:44:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was
    the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I
    made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Louis, you are being flippant here by making your opposition to the
    death penalty comment. It's not what patients and families actually go
    through.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 06:54:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

    . . .

    The problem described above just seems to be unavoidable, no matter what we >come up with.

    Second, there are (at least) 3 levels of death-penalty objectors:

    1) Those who just think it is wrong regardless. That if we kill you
    because you killed someone else, that makes us no better than you. The
    problem with this is that if you follow it to its logical conclusion,
    the whole criminal justice system falls apart (as well, incidentally,
    as the justification for the military).

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully convicted"
    problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one who will at some
    future time be found to be not guilty will ever be executed, then it
    would be OK.

    I oppose wrongful convictions for non-death penalty cases too.

    3) Those who worry about the actual nitty-gritty details of the
    procedure (i.e., the 8th Amendment). These people would be OK with it
    if we could somehow perfect the process.

    Like Louis, I can be flippant too. Guillotine is fool proof.

    My sense is that at least some people claim to be in group 3, which they
    use as cover for really being in either group 1 or group 2.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From s|b@me@privacy.invalid to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 12:22:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Wed, 27 May 2026 18:19:22 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    David Carson <davidc@wa-wd.com> wrote:

    Texas switched away from the three-drug lethal injection protocol in 2011, >about the same time most other states did. Executions are now performed >using one drug, pentobarbital.

    Why isn't it used for MAID, then?

    I just checked: in Belgium most doctors use Thiopental or Propofol to
    euthanise patients.
    --
    s|b
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From s|b@me@privacy.invalid to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 12:26:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Thu, 28 May 2026 05:31:36 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein wrote:

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    That's why we simply call it euthanasia.
    --
    s|b
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From SURNAME@SURNAME@panix.removethispart.com (J.D. Baldwin) to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 11:07:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries


    In the previous article, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com>
    wrote:
    Second: N2 asphyxiation. Accept no substitutes. It has all
    advantages and no drawbacks.

    Unfortunately, there are still problems.

    First of all, even if the N2 method is, in theory, entirely
    painless,

    It's better than "painless," and this is not "theoretical": a century
    of diving experience has given us tons of data on "nitrogen narcosis."
    The effect is one of euphoria.

    the fact is that it (the process) still has to be administered,
    which means you need a room and a mask and suitable safety
    precautions,

    N2 is not toxic; you are breathing quite a lot of it right now. If you
    use a non-rebreather mask (cheap and plentiful) and don't run the
    flow in a confined space, that's pretty much the required safety
    protocol.

    with the result that the victim knows what is happening as it is
    happening, and that terror is unavoidable (and, some would say, an
    intended part of the punishment).

    This distinguishes N2 from any other method not at all, of course.

    Second, there are (at least) 3 levels of death-penalty objectors:

    1) Those who just think it is wrong regardless. That if we kill
    you because you killed someone else, that makes us no better
    than you. The problem with this is that if you follow it to its
    logical conclusion, the whole criminal justice system falls
    apart (as well, incidentally, as the justification for the
    military).

    This is usually less a principled stand than mere moral squeamishness.
    I think Marvin Gabrion is a human being with worth and dignity. I
    believe that "made in the image of God" applies to him as much as to
    any other person. But he should pay for what he did (and you can
    Google that if necessary), and there is only one appropriate price,
    and it should have been exacted decades ago.

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully
    convicted" problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one
    who will at some future time be found to be not guilty will ever
    be executed, then it would be OK.

    This is a legitimate concern, but it's also a legitimate concern for
    someone thrown in a hole for thirty years. Do we stop putting people
    in prison because of the possibility of error?

    The real answer to wrongful convictions is abolition of prosecutorial
    and judical immunity in cases of clear misconduct.

    3) Those who worry about the actual nitty-gritty details of the
    procedure (i.e., the 8th Amendment). These people would be OK
    with it if we could somehow perfect the process.

    My sense is that at least some people claim to be in group 3, which
    they use as cover for really being in either group 1 or group 2.

    This seems close to self-evident.
    --
    jd
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 08:06:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    J.D. Baldwin <news@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
    This is usually less a principled stand than mere moral squeamishness.
    I think Marvin Gabrion is a human being with worth and dignity. I
    believe that "made in the image of God" applies to him as much as to
    any other person. But he should pay for what he did (and you can
    Google that if necessary), and there is only one appropriate price,
    and it should have been exacted decades ago.

    Two questions to ask, now that we have established that he did what he
    was accused of beyond any reasonable doubt:

    1. Does he want to die or would he rather spend decades in prison? His
    wishes should possibly be taken into account.

    2. Which is less expensive for the state? Assuming that both options
    are equally just, which one will cost less? It's very expensive to
    maintain prisoners but it's also very expensive to kill people
    effectively.

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully
    convicted" problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one
    who will at some future time be found to be not guilty will ever
    be executed, then it would be OK.

    This is a legitimate concern, but it's also a legitimate concern for
    someone thrown in a hole for thirty years. Do we stop putting people
    in prison because of the possibility of error?

    If someone is put into prison and it turns out there was an error, they
    can be let out. And yes, much of their life has been destroyed, but
    it's still a better situation than if they are unjustly executed.

    This is a very very important issue in some places where there is a
    shockingly large number of innocent people in the justice system.
    It is so important that unjust people are not punished that we should
    be willing to allow some criminals to go unpunished. The standards
    set in the law are very high but are not always upheld.

    The real answer to wrongful convictions is abolition of prosecutorial
    and judical immunity in cases of clear misconduct.

    I would agree to that, but there are many people in the system right now
    and it may take decades for them all to age out.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 14:54:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Thu, 28 May 2026 06:54:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
    <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

    . . .

    The problem described above just seems to be unavoidable, no matter what we >>come up with.

    Second, there are (at least) 3 levels of death-penalty objectors:

    1) Those who just think it is wrong regardless. That if we kill you
    because you killed someone else, that makes us no better than you. The >> problem with this is that if you follow it to its logical conclusion,
    the whole criminal justice system falls apart (as well, incidentally,
    as the justification for the military).

    2) Those who would be OK with it if not for the "wrongfully convicted"
    problem. I.e., if we could be 100% sure that no one who will at some
    future time be found to be not guilty will ever be executed, then it
    would be OK.

    I oppose wrongful convictions for non-death penalty cases too.

    3) Those who worry about the actual nitty-gritty details of the
    procedure (i.e., the 8th Amendment). These people would be OK with it
    if we could somehow perfect the process.

    Like Louis, I can be flippant too. Guillotine is fool proof.

    But it's a right pain in the neck.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From SURNAME@SURNAME@panix.removethispart.com (J.D. Baldwin) to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 14:28:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries


    In the previous article, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Two questions to ask, now that we have established that he did what he
    was accused of beyond any reasonable doubt:

    1. Does he want to die or would he rather spend decades in prison?
    His wishes should possibly be taken into account.

    2. Which is less expensive for the state? Assuming that both options
    are equally just, which one will cost less? It's very expensive
    to maintain prisoners but it's also very expensive to kill people
    effectively.

    I reject both of these. We don't tailor punishments according to the
    wishes of the offender. There are certainly some cases where I think
    justice would better be served by life in ADMAX. In fact, to the
    degree I even think about what an offender "deserves," I would say the
    worst of the worst "deserve" (a preferably long) life in ADMAX even in preference to execution.

    As to the expense: penal systems are a necessary function of the
    state, like roads and the courts and police themselves. I don't mind
    looking for and implementing efficiencies in any of these systems, but
    I don't think we should be making qualitative punishment decisions
    based on the budget bottom line. If it were far cheaper to execute a prisoner[1] than to keep him in a cell for fifty years, I (and I hope
    a majority of us) would be absolutely outraged at the suggestion that
    we should put a needle in his arm to save a few hundred thousand
    bucks. And the same goes for the reverse: if we've decided that the appropriate punishment for, say, Marvin Gabrion, is death, then let
    justice be done, though the budget bust.

    [1] I don't really accept at face value the anti-DP crowd's claims
    that a given execution costs millions. Yes, it costs a lot of
    lawyers' time, but on the state side (including public defenders),
    those lawyers are employed whether they are working on a DP appeal
    or a case of aggravated mopery in a public park. I don't think the
    cost is zero, or even small, but the *marginal* cost of a given
    execution is certainly not in the millions of dollars.

    If someone is put into prison and it turns out there was an error,
    they can be let out. And yes, much of their life has been destroyed,
    but it's still a better situation than if they are unjustly
    executed.

    Of course it's "better." But it's a difference of degree, not of kind.
    --
    jd
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 19:06:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was
    the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I
    made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Hospice is one thing,deliberate seeking of death quite another.
    You have discretion in how hard to push in one direction but no
    right to deliberately push in the other.
    It's one thing to risk your life and another to have its forfeiture
    as your goal.

    Louis, you are being flippant here by making your opposition to the
    death penalty comment. It's not what patients and families actually go through.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 19:07:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    In <10v6t17$3esgp$1@news.xmission.com> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    I disagree completely, having had a number of friends die in horrible and painful ways. I definitely do not want to die painfully and slowly and would appreciate assistance in dying rapidly and painlessly should I be in that situation.

    Painkillers are one thing,the intent that death
    result is another.

    --scott


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Thu May 28 19:34:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was
    the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I
    made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Hospice is one thing,deliberate seeking of death quite another.

    Hospice care is deliberate and is not performed to extend life. Quite
    the opposite.

    You have discretion in how hard to push in one direction but no
    right to deliberately push in the other.

    That's not true. My mother was taken off intravenous glucose and
    feeding. She received care from the hospice nurse who was monitoring
    pain and comfort and not taking life-saving or life-extending measures.

    It's one thing to risk your life and another to have its forfeiture
    as your goal.

    You have completely the wrong idea here about what proper medical care
    truly is.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Fri May 29 14:17:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was
    the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I
    made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Hospice is one thing,deliberate seeking of death quite another.

    Hospice care is deliberate and is not performed to extend life. Quite
    the opposite.

    Hospice care is about prioritizing quality of life,
    but not prioritizing acceleration of death.

    You have discretion in how hard to push in one direction but no
    right to deliberately push in the other.

    That's not true.

    We disagree on that.

    My mother was taken off intravenous glucose and feeding.

    I would draw a line against that.
    I signed a DNR for my mother but never would have
    disconnected her feeding tube.

    She received care from the hospice nurse who was monitoring
    pain and comfort and not taking life-saving or life-extending measures.

    It's one thing to risk your life and another to have its forfeiture
    as your goal.

    You have completely the wrong idea here about what proper medical care
    truly is.

    That sentiment (toward each other's ideas) is apparently mutual.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Fri May 29 17:08:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was >>>>the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I >>>>made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Hospice is one thing,deliberate seeking of death quite another.

    Hospice care is deliberate and is not performed to extend life. Quite
    the opposite.

    Hospice care is about prioritizing quality of life,
    but not prioritizing acceleration of death.

    There's no practical difference.

    You have discretion in how hard to push in one direction but no
    right to deliberately push in the other.

    That's not true.

    We disagree on that.

    It doesn't matter what you believe. It's an unrelated level of care.
    There's no intensive care. There's no artificial respiration. There's no resusitation. There is consideration of whether relief of symptoms
    requiring intervention causes discomfort during the procedure, in which
    case it won't be performed in a hospice setting.

    My mother was taken off intravenous glucose and feeding.

    I would draw a line against that.
    I signed a DNR for my mother but never would have
    disconnected her feeding tube.

    Why? It was mostly glucose, which meant frequent testing of glucose
    levels which is going to interrupt rest and sleep. My mother's body
    wasn't processing much of anything and wasn't benefitting,

    With hospice, you really try to avoid all of the frequent blood draws
    that hospital patients are typically subject to. You are mostly trying
    to let the patient rest to the extent possible.

    We had a long discussion about whether opioids wouod be used to manage
    pain as I was hoping she'd remain conscious, but they explained she
    really wasn't going to have periods of lucidity. It never really came to
    that, though, and the opioids would have been minimal anyway.

    She received care from the hospice nurse who was monitoring
    pain and comfort and not taking life-saving or life-extending measures.

    It's one thing to risk your life and another to have its forfeiture
    as your goal.

    You have completely the wrong idea here about what proper medical care >>truly is.

    That sentiment (toward each other's ideas) is apparently mutual.

    Well, there should be one consideration, doing what the patient benefits
    from according to his advance directives. We do hear of relatives giving instructions to the hospital to use feeding tubes and artificial
    respiration even if it's against the patient's directive.

    I was well aware of my mother's wishes although we never specifically
    discussed hospice, and I did my best to honor them.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Carson@davidc@wa-wd.com to alt.obituaries on Fri May 29 14:36:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    On Thu, 28 May 2026 08:06:35 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Two questions to ask, now that we have established that he did what he
    was accused of beyond any reasonable doubt:

    1. Does he want to die or would he rather spend decades in prison? His >wishes should possibly be taken into account.

    It's been over a day since J.D. answered this post most effectively,
    and I still can't stop myself from commenting how stupid I find the
    above statement to be.

    2. Which is less expensive for the state? Assuming that both options
    are equally just, which one will cost less? It's very expensive to
    maintain prisoners but it's also very expensive to kill people
    effectively.

    Again, J.D. answered this very well, and the only thing I can add is
    that the "assuming that both options are equally just" part is the
    whole issue. Most people don't consider them to be, and you can't just
    assume it away like that. The "doing whichever punishment is cheaper"
    argument is weak enough to begin with; this only makes it worse.

    David Carson
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to alt.obituaries on Fri May 29 15:59:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    J.D. Baldwin <news@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
    If someone is put into prison and it turns out there was an error,
    they can be let out. And yes, much of their life has been destroyed,
    but it's still a better situation than if they are unjustly
    executed.

    Of course it's "better." But it's a difference of degree, not of kind.

    Absolutely but you take what you can get.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to alt.obituaries on Fri May 29 20:54:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In article <10vcr7s$s4i$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    J.D. Baldwin <news@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
    If someone is put into prison and it turns out there was an error,
    they can be let out. And yes, much of their life has been destroyed,
    but it's still a better situation than if they are unjustly
    executed.

    Of course it's "better." But it's a difference of degree, not of kind.

    I disagree with this - and certainly with the implication that it is
    obvious (as denoted by the phrase 'Of course').

    I think that under most circumstances, being put in prison ruins your whole life and you're better off dead in most cases. Certainly, if they throw
    you in jail for 30 or 40 years and then let you out because they finally figured out that you were not guilty, your life is so ruined that you'd
    have been better off dead.

    Keep in mind that a) It is not like you were going to live forever if this hadn't happened and b) life expectancy of the people typically caught in
    this sort of mess is significantly less than the national average.
    --
    If Jeb is Charlie Brown kicking a football-pulled-away, Mitt is a '50s housewife with a black eye who insists to her friends the roast wasn't
    dry.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Sun May 31 00:57:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote: >>>>>>>gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

    BTW, what is "MAID"? I assume it is an acronym for something.

    Medical Assistance In Dying

    Whatever deliberately assists dying is not proper medicine.

    A month and a half ago, I had to choose hospice for my mother. It was >>>>>the last week of her life, and pretty much the only good decision I >>>>>made, since rehab was out of the question.

    Hospice is one thing,deliberate seeking of death quite another.

    Hospice care is deliberate and is not performed to extend life. Quite
    the opposite.

    Hospice care is about prioritizing quality of life,
    but not prioritizing acceleration of death.

    There's no practical difference.

    The theoretical difference is of enormous
    importance to me.

    You have discretion in how hard to push in one direction but no
    right to deliberately push in the other.

    That's not true.

    We disagree on that.

    It doesn't matter what you believe. It's an unrelated level of care.
    There's no intensive care. There's no artificial respiration. There's no resusitation. There is consideration of whether relief of symptoms
    requiring intervention causes discomfort during the procedure, in which
    case it won't be performed in a hospice setting.

    You're not seeing my point.

    My mother was taken off intravenous glucose and feeding.

    I would draw a line against that.
    I signed a DNR for my mother but never would have
    disconnected her feeding tube.

    Why? It was mostly glucose, which meant frequent testing of glucose
    levels which is going to interrupt rest and sleep. My mother's body
    wasn't processing much of anything and wasn't benefitting,

    With hospice, you really try to avoid all of the frequent blood draws
    that hospital patients are typically subject to. You are mostly trying
    to let the patient rest to the extent possible.

    We had a long discussion about whether opioids wouod be used to manage
    pain as I was hoping she'd remain conscious, but they explained she
    really wasn't going to have periods of lucidity. It never really came to that, though, and the opioids would have been minimal anyway.

    My mother was in the ICU.They had her on drugs that they said
    made her unable to consciously process things but there was a
    moment on my last visit when her eyes changed as I looked into them
    and I believe she recognized me.

    She received care from the hospice nurse who was monitoring
    pain and comfort and not taking life-saving or life-extending measures.

    It's one thing to risk your life and another to have its forfeiture
    as your goal.

    You have completely the wrong idea here about what proper medical care >>>truly is.

    That sentiment (toward each other's ideas) is apparently mutual.

    Well, there should be one consideration, doing what the patient benefits
    from according to his advance directives. We do hear of relatives giving instructions to the hospital to use feeding tubes and artificial
    respiration even if it's against the patient's directive.

    I was well aware of my mother's wishes although we never specifically discussed hospice, and I did my best to honor them.

    I believe the DNR would have been in accordance
    with my mother's wishes.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Sun May 31 00:59:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <10vcr7s$s4i$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    J.D. Baldwin <news@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
    If someone is put into prison and it turns out there was an error,
    they can be let out. And yes, much of their life has been destroyed,
    but it's still a better situation than if they are unjustly
    executed.

    Of course it's "better." But it's a difference of degree, not of kind.

    I disagree with this - and certainly with the implication that it is
    obvious (as denoted by the phrase 'Of course').

    I think that under most circumstances, being put in prison ruins your whole life and you're better off dead in most cases. Certainly, if they throw
    you in jail for 30 or 40 years and then let you out because they finally figured out that you were not guilty, your life is so ruined that you'd
    have been better off dead.

    Death is by definition the worst possible
    and least defensible outcome.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to alt.obituaries on Sun May 31 04:56:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:

    Death is by definition the worst possible
    and least defensible outcome.

    This is where you and I differ completely, because I would much rather be
    dead than imprisoned for life. That difference is a central one between
    many supporters and detractors of the death penalty and unless that
    difference gets resolved I don't see the conflict changing.

    And I don't see that difference getting resolved until someone comes back
    from the dead to tell us what it is like, which is unlikely.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Sun May 31 17:42:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:

    Death is by definition the worst possible
    and least defensible outcome.

    This is where you and I differ completely, because I would much rather be >dead than imprisoned for life. That difference is a central one between
    many supporters and detractors of the death penalty and unless that >difference gets resolved I don't see the conflict changing.

    And I don't see that difference getting resolved until someone comes back >from the dead to tell us what it is like, which is unlikely.

    It's not possible to agree with a definition that is, by definition, proprietary!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Sun May 31 23:42:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:

    Death is by definition the worst possible
    and least defensible outcome.

    This is where you and I differ completely, because I would much rather be dead than imprisoned for life. That difference is a central one between
    many supporters and detractors of the death penalty and unless that difference gets resolved I don't see the conflict changing.

    The guilty person who would rather be dead than imprisoned for life
    is not entitled to have his preference;the innocent person who would
    rather be dead than imprisoned for life is entitled to be released.

    A government can never be entitled to kill prisoners who are at
    its mercy.


    And I don't see that difference getting resolved until someone comes back from the dead to tell us what it is like, which is unlikely.
    --scott

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.obituaries on Mon Jun 1 01:56:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:

    Death is by definition the worst possible
    and least defensible outcome.

    This is where you and I differ completely, because I would much rather be >>dead than imprisoned for life. That difference is a central one between >>many supporters and detractors of the death penalty and unless that >>difference gets resolved I don't see the conflict changing.

    The guilty person who would rather be dead than imprisoned for life
    is not entitled to have his preference;the innocent person who would
    rather be dead than imprisoned for life is entitled to be released.

    A government can never be entitled to kill prisoners who are at
    its mercy.

    Victims of crimes can also be at the government's mercy. like violent
    crimes within foster families, incompetant or corrupt police
    investigations that fail to uncover the true perpetrator of the crime,
    or ordinary people who are adversely impacted by government policy.

    I'd suggest that you might broaden your concern a little but I've tried
    that in the past and it falls on deaf ears.

    And I don't see that difference getting resolved until someone comes back >>from the dead to tell us what it is like, which is unlikely.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to alt.obituaries on Mon Jun 1 03:53:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In article <10viot6$1tpg8$3@dont-email.me>,
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    ...
    I'd suggest that you might broaden your concern a little but I've tried
    that in the past and it falls on deaf ears.

    I'd suggest not wasting any more time arguing with Louis.

    It's obvious from all of his posts in this NG (on many different subjects)
    that he exists in la-la land and has long since lost any familiarity he
    might have once had with reality.
    --
    "Unattended children will be given an espresso and a free kitten."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Tue Jun 2 05:00:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <10viot6$1tpg8$3@dont-email.me>,
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    ...
    I'd suggest that you might broaden your concern a little but I've tried >>that in the past and it falls on deaf ears.

    I'd suggest not wasting any more time arguing with Louis.

    It's obvious from all of his posts in this NG (on many different subjects) that he exists in la-la land and has long since lost any familiarity he
    might have once had with reality.


    Naturally,I believe that I am better acquainted with reality
    than those who disagree with me.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From gazelle@gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) to alt.obituaries on Tue Jun 2 13:03:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    In article <10vlo0l$3va$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <10viot6$1tpg8$3@dont-email.me>,
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    ...
    I'd suggest that you might broaden your concern a little but I've tried >>>that in the past and it falls on deaf ears.

    I'd suggest not wasting any more time arguing with Louis.

    It's obvious from all of his posts in this NG (on many different subjects) >> that he exists in la-la land and has long since lost any familiarity he
    might have once had with reality.


    Naturally,I believe that I am better acquainted with reality
    than those who disagree with me.

    Naturally.

    I actually have a lot to say on the subject of the DP, but I won't go into
    it here on this NG.

    But I'd like clarification from you on two points:

    1) IIRC, you are pro-abortion but anti-DP. This is the classic,
    doctrinaire liberal position, but I think it is clear that it is flawed.

    2) Given your position on the DP, what is your stance on the existence of
    the military? It seems to me that if one is categorically anti-DP, that
    leaves no room for acceptance of the existence of the military. The
    existence and practice of the military does far more damage than the DP
    could ever hope for.

    Personally, I accept that both (the DP and the military) are necessary evils. But I have no illusions as to which is far, far worse.
    --
    To most Christians, the Bible is like a software license. Nobody
    actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree."

    - author unknown -
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  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to alt.obituaries on Wed Jun 3 22:33:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.obituaries

    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <10vlo0l$3va$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
    Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <10viot6$1tpg8$3@dont-email.me>,
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    ...
    I'd suggest that you might broaden your concern a little but I've tried >>>>that in the past and it falls on deaf ears.

    I'd suggest not wasting any more time arguing with Louis.

    It's obvious from all of his posts in this NG (on many different subjects) >>> that he exists in la-la land and has long since lost any familiarity he
    might have once had with reality.


    Naturally,I believe that I am better acquainted with reality
    than those who disagree with me.

    Naturally.

    I actually have a lot to say on the subject of the DP, but I won't go into
    it here on this NG.

    But I'd like clarification from you on two points:

    1) IIRC, you are pro-abortion but anti-DP. This is the classic,
    doctrinaire liberal position, but I think it is clear that it is flawed.

    On the 3 "life and death" issues,I hold two "liberal" positions and one "conservative" position,all with fanatical firmness...
    a woman who wants an abortion is entitled to it;
    no death penalty regardless of crime,criminal,or circumstances;
    no deliberate hastening of one's own death.

    2) Given your position on the DP, what is your stance on the existence of
    the military? It seems to me that if one is categorically anti-DP, that leaves no room for acceptance of the existence of the military. The existence and practice of the military does far more damage than the DP
    could ever hope for.

    Personally, I accept that both (the DP and the military) are necessary evils. But I have no illusions as to which is far, far worse.

    There is a case to be made for the necessity of a military,
    there is none to be made for the necessity of executions.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
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