I've gone and forgotten them.
--...............
Huh, IrCOd forgotten there were English words to -2 Fr|?re Jacques -+.
There are also Dutch words (Slaap je nog, broeder Jan), but I've gone
and forgotten them.
I've gone and forgotten them.
is this usage (gone and) more common in Australia? (than USA?)
(modality) Does it carry a sense of [Too bad this happened] ?
i guess so.. as in
[Don't take that outside, or you'll go and spill it all !]
i'm interested in the comparison with
(Futurity in) I'm going to ....... (grammaticization)
On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 23:38:58 +0000, Peter Moylan wrote:
--...............
Huh, IrCOd forgotten there were English words to -2 Fr|?re Jacques -+.
There are also Dutch words (Slaap je nog, broeder Jan), but I've gone
and forgotten them.
Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !" [...]
"If you keep procrastinating, you will end up stressed before the
deadline."
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et
tomber malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation? C'en a l'air.
On 10/11/24 20:12, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et
tomber malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation? C'en a l'air.
"Go and do X" is a distinctively English construct. For the moment I
can't think of another language that does that [1]. French has "aller tomber", but not "aller et tomber". (And putting it after "tu vas"
aggravates the crime.)
[1] A dangerous assertion to make in AUE, of course. It will probably
elicit many examples.
Le 10/11/2024 |a 11:01, Peter Moylan a |-crit :
On 10/11/24 20:12, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et
tomber malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation? C'en a l'air.
"Go and do X" is a distinctively English construct. For the moment I
can't think of another language that does that [1]. French has "aller
tomber", but not "aller et tomber". (And putting it after "tu vas"
aggravates the crime.)
It would be even worse in the plural: vous allez aller et tomber
malade(s). (Mind you, the French do say -2 Allez, va ! -+ - a different idea, of course, but I still marvel at it.)
[1] A dangerous assertion to make in AUE, of course. It will probably
elicit many examples.
I wonder if there's a distinction between a prediction, as above, and an imperative. "Go and do X!" would seem to be a universally valid
instruction, which should be expressible in all languages.
-2 Et J|-sus lui dit: Va, et toi, fais de m|-me -+ - Luc 10.37 (Louis Segond).
Op 10/11/2024 om 8:29 schreef Hibou:..
"Go and do X!" would seem to be a universally valid
instruction, which should be expressible in all languages.
-2 Et J|-sus lui dit: Va, et toi, fais de m|-me -+ - Luc 10.37 (Louis
Segond).
Also biblical:
Go and fornic, er, multipl, eh, I don't know the English version.
Gaat en vermenigvuldigt u: go and multiply yourselves.
A disastrous assignment in these times of overpopulation.
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 16:10:36 +0000, wugi wrote:
Op 10/11/2024 om 8:29 schreef Hibou:..
"Go and do X!" would seem to be a universally valid
instruction, which should be expressible in all languages.
-2 Et J|-sus lui dit: Va, et toi, fais de m|-me -+ - Luc 10.37 (Louis
Segond).
Also biblical:
Go and fornic, er, multipl, eh, I don't know the English version.
Gaat en vermenigvuldigt u: go and multiply yourselves.
The best-known English is "Be fruitful and multiply".
There's no "go" in the Hebrew.
https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-28.htm
A disastrous assignment in these times of overpopulation.
True.
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation? C'en a l'air.
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 9:12:46 +0000, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation?-a-a-a-a C'en a l'air.
not MT;-a-a-a 2 AI's think that this-a [go-and-VERB]-a exists in FR and DE
are these both completely grammatical and idiomatic? -->
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
"Wenn du so laut redest, wirst du noch gehen und die Nachbarn st||ren!"
Both sentences are grammatically correct and idiomatic. They are natural
and everyday expressions that you would use in these situations.
Here's a breakdown:
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
Grammatically:-a-a-a-a-a The sentence is correctly structured and follows French grammar rules.
Idiomatically:-a-a-a-a-a The phrase "aller et tomber malade" is an idiomatic way to express that someone will get sick if they continue like this.
It's a bit more intense than simply saying "tu vas tomber malade." [...]
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a To summarize, both sentences are both grammatically
correct and idiomatic, conveying the intended meaning naturally.
Le 11/11/2024 |a 00:50, HenHanna a |-crit :
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 9:12:46 +0000, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation?-a-a-a-a C'en a l'air.
not MT;-a-a-a 2 AI's think that this-a [go-and-VERB]-a exists in FR and DE
An AI isn't a machine? [...]
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
"Wenn du so laut redest, wirst du noch gehen und die Nachbarn st||ren!"
I'm going to skip the German, and approach the French with caution, not being a native speaker.
On 2024-11-11, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
"Wenn du so laut redest, wirst du noch gehen und die Nachbarn st||ren!"
I'm going to skip the German, and approach the French with caution, not
being a native speaker.
The German feels weird, but seems to mean "... you'll go <someplace>
and disturb the neighbors". It implies a physical displacement.
Your French is a lot better than mine, but I'd interpret the French
the same way. In both cases the implied movement is unconnected to
the rest of sentence, making the semantics feel weird.
In English, "go and <verb>" is an idiomatic expression that emphasizes <verb>. German and French don't use this idiom.
On 2024-11-11, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
"Wenn du so laut redest, wirst du noch gehen und die Nachbarn st||ren!"
I'm going to skip the German, and approach the French with caution, not
being a native speaker.
The German feels weird, but seems to mean "... you'll go <someplace>
and disturb the neighbors". It implies a physical displacement.
Your French is a lot better than mine, but I'd interpret the French
the same way. In both cases the implied movement is unconnected to
the rest of sentence, making the semantics feel weird.
In English, "go and <verb>" is an idiomatic expression that emphasizes <verb>. German and French don't use this idiom.
On 13/11/2024 15:20, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2024-11-11, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
"Si tu continues a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !"
"Wenn du so laut redest, wirst du noch gehen und die Nachbarn st%ren!"
I'm going to skip the German, and approach the French with caution, not
being a native speaker.
The German feels weird, but seems to mean "... you'll go <someplace>
and disturb the neighbors". It implies a physical displacement.
Your French is a lot better than mine, but I'd interpret the French
the same way. In both cases the implied movement is unconnected to
the rest of sentence, making the semantics feel weird.
In English, "go and <verb>" is an idiomatic expression that emphasizes <verb>. German and French don't use this idiom.
Some BrE speakers would take it further
"He's been and gone and done it".
Or even (cross-thread) "He's _only_ been and gone and done it".
In English, "go and <verb>" is an idiomatic expression that emphasizes
<verb>. German and French don't use this idiom.
Fench does use "aller" (not preceded by "et" though) in that sense.
For instance, one can say "Pourquoi irait-il faire |oa ?" instead of "Pourquoi ferait-il |oa ?" where "irait" doesn't denote movement or temporality but just emphasizes the unlikeliness of "him" doing "that".
On 2024-11-13, Bebercito <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
In English, "go and <verb>" is an idiomatic expression that emphasizes
<verb>. German and French don't use this idiom.
Fench does use "aller" (not preceded by "et" though) in that sense.
For instance, one can say "Pourquoi irait-il faire |oa ?" instead of
"Pourquoi ferait-il |oa ?" where "irait" doesn't denote movement or
temporality but just emphasizes the unlikeliness of "him" doing "that".
I would have interpreted that as the periphrastic future (aller faire)
put into the conditional... but _La Grande Grammaire du fran|oais_
says that the periphrastic future construction only occurs in the
present and imperfect.
Le 11/11/2024 |a 00:50, HenHanna a |-crit :
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 9:12:46 +0000, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/11/2024 |a 08:42, HenHanna a |-crit :
"Si tu continues |a manger autant de bonbons, tu vas aller et tomber
malade !" [...]
Is that a machine translation?-a-a-a-a C'en a l'air.
not MT;-a-a-a 2 AI's think that this-a [go-and-VERB]-a exists in FR and DE
An AI isn't a machine?
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