• Usenet and IRC changed. Attention span & flamers

    From David Chmelik@dchmelik@gmail.com to alt.irc on Fri Feb 27 08:39:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    I liked mid-to-late 1990s IRC. Now some (newer networks) seems full of 'Twitterati'--people with little/no attention span. Maybe half the time I discuss science/technology, like computer programming/science or usage,
    after some more details, people jump in and ask a detail already said.
    When one politely points out there was past discussion they missed it,
    someone says that's an 'attack'. They want repetition to see everything
    quick like classic Twitter.com/X.com posts (144 characters, which is
    sometimes now even called 'wall of text'). I prefer forums--both NNTP/ listservs and world wide web (WWW) forums (web-forums)--but even some
    large forums no longer have much activity. So, one goes to an IRC channel that may be large (not as large as a subject's forum/listserv)... people
    only read a little before replying. More (than past) are autistic/
    Asperger so when one expects people read all relevant discussion before joining in to reply, some even take it personally. It's popular to link
    'How to Ask A Question on The Internet' but there should be 'How to Answer
    A Question on The Internet' describing don't skip to last part and miss
    most but then repeat, like early 1990s AOL 'me toos' on Usenet.

    I used to do 30 KB forum posts, though mostly 'Yahoo! Groups' web-forums
    in '0s; people replied that long and longer: they had attention span (intellectual-focused groups). At least kids those days had read a book.
    I'd tried Usenet in 1990s but just asked a couple very short questions. I
    was on Internet in museum before Eternal September but not regularly until after dial-up bulletin board system (BBS) a few years later. The Internet changed a lot since including for the worse. Usenet and IRC seem some
    last few places with absolute free speech sometimes even without a couple
    USA restrictions... not that one can shout 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre on Usenet & IRC but all countries have political restriction, and most much
    more than USA Constitution such as 'hate speech' fines/prison.

    One thing autistic IRC technologists seem to hate is average users: even computer programmers/scientists who are only users of some other software
    that may be undocumented. One crude OS channel operator said I'm 'using channel for "IT support"'... I'm not into 'IT' and I write documentation/
    code myself. Is it true some won't document much/anything but then run a
    chat room (IRC or newer things like 'Matrix') largely to continually blame users for asking questions about what's undocumented? I think I've seen
    it, though they may have attention span, some only partly also for running 'GitHub' projects they only want small comments that are 'actionable' (neologistic meaning. Standard dictionaries only give it a legal
    definition) and they close issues if not fitting that or after a certain
    time or immediately without understanding... poor way to solve bugs.

    I've seen some of Usenet improve after the Google Groups halt... sad about that: don't know if/what archives Usenet anymore other than paid providers (trying but some have PAN formatting issues). I also saw some IRC improve after 'Matrix' crash (popularity loss)... some projects such as Mozilla/ FireFox moved there but just lost popularity (some places below 1% WWW usage)--shot themselves in the foot.

    favourite NNTP newsgroups
    * alt.comics*
    * alt.math*
    * alt.os.linux.slackware
    * alt.spiritual*
    * comp.unix.bsd*
    * gmane.os.illumos
    * rec.arts.comics*
    * rec.games.abstract
    * rec.drugs.smart (I only use tea/coffee, legal herbs)
    * rec.games.frp.dnd*
    * rec.games.roguelike.*
    * sci.math*

    favourite IRC channels
    * #art
    * #coders
    * #demoscene
    * #d&d
    * #math & #not-math
    * #philosophy
    * #pixel
    * #science
    * #spiritual
    * #trax
    * #vegetarian & #vegan
    * #yoga

    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC clients? I like
    PAN, ThunderBird, HexChat, irssi, though would also like KVIRC if one
    could put network/channel tabs in one's own order. I sometimes use mIRC
    in WINE to view ANSI art channels better, though in principle prefer Free/ Libre/Opensource Software (FLS, OSS, FOSS, FLOSS). I don't like portable
    PCs such as laptops, pads/tablets, cellular telephones (none which have mobility of their own) but occasionally use AndChat or 'IRC For Android'
    which were free/gratis but now hard to find (save copies).

    I mostly just read aforementioned newsgroups, so in case I forget this but you'd like a reply, feel free to ping me an email or seek me on IRC.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From highcrew@high.crew3868@fastmail.com to alt.irc on Fri Feb 27 21:32:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On 2/27/26 9:39 AM, David Chmelik wrote:
    I used to do 30 KB forum posts

    Yep. Checks out.

    Now I'll be frank, and I hope I'm not offensive: I hard hard time to
    make sense of your essay. Sorry to say that.

    I'm quite sure it does not depend on my attention span. Just, sometimes
    being short and to the point helps.f

    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC clients?

    I'm currently using Thunderbird. I'm not completely fond of it, but
    it is quick to set up, and I don't have too much free time in my hands.

    slrn if I'm on a terminal.

    I mostly just read aforementioned newsgroups, so in case I forget this but you'd like a reply, feel free to ping me an email or seek me on IRC.
    --
    High Crew
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Chmelik@dchmelik@gmail.com to alt.irc on Fri Feb 27 22:20:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 21:32:51 +0100, highcrew wrote:
    On 2/27/26 9:39 AM, David Chmelik wrote:
    I'm quite sure it does not depend on my attention span. Just, sometimes
    being short and to the point helps.f
    different way of saying same thing?
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From superkuh@superkuh@superkuh.com to alt.irc on Wed Mar 4 22:31:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On 02/27/2026 02:39 AM, David Chmelik wrote:
    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC clients?

    A thunderbird fork called FossaMail and xchat. The classics work fine.

    IRC is the text chat layer of the internet which is the platform.
    Including all that multimedia stuff directly in IRC and hosting state
    and user content on the server is a terrible idea for many social,
    legal, and resource usage reasons. IRC should just be a bunch of inet
    sockets with subscribed IPs if it is to survive. That is the reason it
    *has* survived all these years. And indeed I'm part of many vibrant communities on many networks. Though I admit less than in 2004.

    IRCv3 extensions aim to do this kind of state and content and
    handholding for clients on smartphones that can't hold open a tcp
    connection. And many IRCv3 features are being adopted by networks of consequence like Libera. So your wish for a more non-geek accessible IRC
    may come true.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From highcrew@high.crew3868@fastmail.com to alt.irc on Sat Mar 7 22:37:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On 3/5/26 5:31 AM, superkuh wrote:

    IRCv3 extensions aim to do this kind of state and content and
    handholding for clients on smartphones that can't hold open a tcp connection. And many IRCv3 features are being adopted by networks of consequence like Libera. So your wish for a more non-geek accessible IRC
    may come true.

    Hard to strike a balance, don't you agree?

    I'm not sure I want to see more "non-geeks" on IRC, as experience shows
    that good wine is found in small barrels.

    On the other hand it seems like younger geeks are not so prone to IRC
    these days.

    Old story.
    --
    High Crew
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tom Mix@tommix@dev.null to alt.irc on Sun Mar 22 00:28:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On 2026-02-27, highcrew <high.crew3868@fastmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/27/26 9:39 AM, David Chmelik wrote:
    I used to do 30 KB forum posts

    Yep. Checks out.

    Now I'll be frank, and I hope I'm not offensive: I hard hard time to
    make sense of your essay. Sorry to say that.

    I'm quite sure it does not depend on my attention span. Just, sometimes being short and to the point helps.f

    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC clients?

    I'm currently using Thunderbird. I'm not completely fond of it, but
    it is quick to set up, and I don't have too much free time in my hands.

    slrn if I'm on a terminal.

    Slrn even if I am in a gui

    I mostly just read aforementioned newsgroups, so in case I forget this but >> you'd like a reply, feel free to ping me an email or seek me on IRC.

    Ahh IRC, the good old days. Haven't been on IRC since who knows. I hear
    it is mostly dead now.
    --
    Tom Mix
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From highcrew@high.crew3868@fastmail.com to alt.irc on Sun Mar 22 21:13:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    On 3/22/26 1:28 AM, Tom Mix wrote:
    Ahh IRC, the good old days. Haven't been on IRC since who knows. I hear
    it is mostly dead now.

    For sure it is not as populated as it used to, but far from being
    dead, IMO. :)
    --
    High Crew
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From address@address@is.invalid (LucLan) to alt.irc on Sat Mar 28 06:31:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    highcrew <high.crew3868@fastmail.com> wrote:
    On 3/22/26 1:28 AM, Tom Mix wrote:
    Ahh IRC, the good old days. Haven't been on IRC since who knows. I hear
    it is mostly dead now.

    For sure it is not as populated as it used to, but far from being
    dead, IMO. :)


    I am using IRC to get fast support for linux applications.
    --
    Luc
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ant@ant@tilde.club to alt.irc on Sat May 16 00:01:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    LucLan <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    I am using IRC to get fast support for linux applications.

    Whereas normies simply ask ChatGPT or DeepSeek, which shows how
    AI disunites people by making communication between humans less
    valuable It forces everybody into their own bubble and feeding
    them LLM slop.

    (De)generative AI has even infected software:

    <https://codeberg.org/small-hack/open-slopware>
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ant@ant@tilde.club to alt.irc on Sat May 16 00:09:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    superkuh <superkuh@superkuh.com> wrote:

    On 02/27/2026 02:39 AM, David Chmelik wrote:

    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC
    clients?

    A thunderbird fork called FossaMail and xchat. The classics
    work fine.

    For NNTP:

    1. Sylpheed (mail and news client),
    2. tin,
    3. XNews.

    For IRC:

    1. HexChat,
    2. ZoiteChat,
    3. WeeChat.

    IRCv3 extensions aim to do this kind of state and content and
    handholding for clients on smartphones that can't hold open a
    tcp connection. And many IRCv3 features are being adopted by
    networks of consequence like Libera. So your wish for a more
    non-geek accessible IRC may come true.

    Do you mean some bouncer-like features? Anyway, IRC is best
    experienced on a real PC, with a real monitor and keyboard.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From address@address@is.invalid (LucLan) to alt.irc on Sun May 17 10:50:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    ant <ant@tilde.club> wrote:
    LucLan <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    I am using IRC to get fast support for linux applications.

    Whereas normies simply ask ChatGPT or DeepSeek, which shows how
    AI disunites people by making communication between humans less
    valuable It forces everybody into their own bubble and feeding
    them LLM slop.

    (De)generative AI has even infected software:

    <https://codeberg.org/small-hack/open-slopware>

    and you said what?!
    --
    Luc
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Rogers@mrrogersmaddenfilmroom@gmail.com to alt.irc on Tue Jun 16 11:45:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.irc

    I tried to respond at length to this David. I'm Aspherger diagnosed
    father of three who works in IT. It's a struggle to find time to sit
    down write at length.

    David Chmelik wrote:
    I liked mid-to-late 1990s IRC. Now some (newer networks) seems full of 'Twitterati'--people with little/no attention span. Maybe half the time I discuss science/technology, like computer programming/science or usage,
    after some more details, people jump in and ask a detail already said.
    When one politely points out there was past discussion they missed it, someone says that's an 'attack'. They want repetition to see everything quick like classic Twitter.com/X.com posts (144 characters, which is sometimes now even called 'wall of text'). I prefer forums--both NNTP/ listservs and world wide web (WWW) forums (web-forums)--but even some
    large forums no longer have much activity. So, one goes to an IRC channel that may be large (not as large as a subject's forum/listserv)... people
    only read a little before replying. More (than past) are autistic/
    Asperger so when one expects people read all relevant discussion before joining in to reply, some even take it personally. It's popular to link
    'How to Ask A Question on The Internet' but there should be 'How to Answer
    A Question on The Internet' describing don't skip to last part and miss
    most but then repeat, like early 1990s AOL 'me toos' on Usenet.

    I started using a Tandy 1000 in the early 90s. I had no internet access
    until the early 2000s. It had DeskMate as its primary operating system
    and also had MS-DOS. Some of the last versions of the Tandy 1000 shipped
    with Windows 3.1; I was never able to get my hands on one of those. I
    was very envious of kids in the neighborhood who had Windows and the
    internet. I spent hours upon hours studying command lines from an old
    MS-DOS book and bricking the system, then learning how to fix it.


    I used to do 30 KB forum posts, though mostly 'Yahoo! Groups' web-forums
    in '0s; people replied that long and longer: they had attention span (intellectual-focused groups). At least kids those days had read a book.
    I'd tried Usenet in 1990s but just asked a couple very short questions. I was on Internet in museum before Eternal September but not regularly until after dial-up bulletin board system (BBS) a few years later. The Internet changed a lot since including for the worse. Usenet and IRC seem some
    last few places with absolute free speech sometimes even without a couple
    USA restrictions... not that one can shout 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre on Usenet & IRC but all countries have political restriction, and most much
    more than USA Constitution such as 'hate speech' fines/prison.


    I remember watching a friend use AOL Instant Messenger and I was floored
    by it. He could communicate with people all over the world and my Tandy
    felt powerless. I would go to his house and watch him use his computer
    for hours, chatting and playing video games. He had Windows 3.1 at
    first, and then he got a new computer with Windows 95. I was amazed at
    how smooth the GUI was for Windows 95 at the time. It beat DeskMate by
    miles. We spent hours taking turns playing Doom, Myst, and Warcraft II.
    These moments led to my love for modern computers. I can point back to
    these moments and say, "This is one of my greatest memories." I would
    use my Tandy 1000 at home, walk down the train tracks that went through
    a small patch of woods that connected our houses, and join him on these digital adventures. An age to fall in love with technology, yet still be
    an outdoor kid. It felt like we were on the frontier of the unknown,
    Vikings sailing across the Atlantic on our way to the Americas.

    Corporate takeovers of the internet, the advent of data harvesting and
    spying, and government restrictions are pushing me to Usenet and IRC.
    I've even delved into self-hosting. I'm trying to eliminate as many subscriptions as possible by hosting my own solutions at home. I now
    have full control over my photo backups, hosting them locally with a
    secure offsite backup.

    Tools for the police state are in full swing regarding their inception
    and creation, all under the guise of "Protect the Children." I'm going
    to stop here about this; this is meant more as an introduction.

    One thing autistic IRC technologists seem to hate is average users: even computer programmers/scientists who are only users of some other software that may be undocumented. One crude OS channel operator said I'm 'using channel for "IT support"'... I'm not into 'IT' and I write documentation/ code myself. Is it true some won't document much/anything but then run a chat room (IRC or newer things like 'Matrix') largely to continually blame users for asking questions about what's undocumented? I think I've seen
    it, though they may have attention span, some only partly also for running 'GitHub' projects they only want small comments that are 'actionable' (neologistic meaning. Standard dictionaries only give it a legal
    definition) and they close issues if not fitting that or after a certain
    time or immediately without understanding... poor way to solve bugs.


    I am personally very tired of the 140 characters or less used to
    communicate with people. I get it when you have to do it at times
    because you're in a hurry, or you're in a long-form chat saying multiple things in small pieces, treating it like an in-person conversation. But
    the way "content," "knowledge," and "data" are shared with few words,
    followed up by "Join this for a free PDF," is driving me crazy. I much
    prefer a long-form article that takes time to read.

    Everyone has an app to sell; they have a course to sell. The internet
    has become a culture of snake-oil salesmen trying to make a quick buck.
    Car salesmen and insurance salesmen have found a second life on the
    internet.

    I've seen some of Usenet improve after the Google Groups halt... sad about that: don't know if/what archives Usenet anymore other than paid providers (trying but some have PAN formatting issues). I also saw some IRC improve after 'Matrix' crash (popularity loss)... some projects such as Mozilla/ FireFox moved there but just lost popularity (some places below 1% WWW usage)--shot themselves in the foot.

    favourite NNTP newsgroups
    * alt.comics*
    * alt.math*
    * alt.os.linux.slackware
    * alt.spiritual*
    * comp.unix.bsd*
    * gmane.os.illumos
    * rec.arts.comics*
    * rec.games.abstract
    * rec.drugs.smart (I only use tea/coffee, legal herbs)
    * rec.games.frp.dnd*
    * rec.games.roguelike.*
    * sci.math*


    Are you a current Slackware user? I've never used it yet, but I'm always testing different distros on my laptop. I would join a Linux community,
    but I've never really had a need to; I've always been able to solve my
    Linux issues, and I'd rather not sit and watch the poor Linux souls get bothered and angered by the "normies." I also feel that when I first
    started using Linux back in the late 2000s, I was pushed away from the community because I didn't understand how Linux worked; I was asking too
    many questions back then.

    favourite IRC channels
    * #art
    * #coders
    * #demoscene
    * #d&d
    * #math & #not-math
    * #philosophy
    * #pixel
    * #science
    * #spiritual
    * #trax
    * #vegetarian & #vegan
    * #yoga


    I just started my IRC journey a couple of days ago. I joined some of the
    most popular channels on EFnet and Libera, but I'm not sure where "home"
    will be for me.

    The current channels I am subscribed to:
    eternal-september.talk (I've had fun talking in here) eternal-september.newusers (I want to make more of an effort to be
    welcoming to new users)
    eternal-september.test (I'm still testing different Usenet clients and settings, so I make a few posts in here for testing)
    alt.irc (For obvious reasons why I'm here.)


    I've never been a fan of talking to people who like a specific thing
    that I like; I find fans to be gatekeepers who decide who's a "real" fan
    or not. For example, Star Wars and Star Trek: I've watched both since I
    was a small child (as many of us have), I love them, and I cherish them
    both. I cannot stand talking to fans of things I love. Like, tell me
    what your childhood was like watching those; how it shaped you as a
    person. Apparently, if you're not an expert trivia master, you're not a
    real fan. I just don't get it with the gatekeepers. I've had great conversations with fans, but it's always outside of "fan clubs" and in a
    more natural environment. It just feels weird stepping into a physical
    or digital area designated as a "fan club." Maybe it's me?

    What are your favourite desktop NNTP newsreader and IRC clients? I like
    PAN, ThunderBird, HexChat, irssi, though would also like KVIRC if one
    could put network/channel tabs in one's own order. I sometimes use mIRC
    in WINE to view ANSI art channels better, though in principle prefer Free/ Libre/Opensource Software (FLS, OSS, FOSS, FLOSS). I don't like portable
    PCs such as laptops, pads/tablets, cellular telephones (none which have mobility of their own) but occasionally use AndChat or 'IRC For Android' which were free/gratis but now hard to find (save copies).


    I just started using SeaMonkey and it's certainly my favorite client so
    far. I'm not a fan of using a terminal for Usenet and IRC. Maybe I'll
    make it a challenge in the future to go 30 days of using Usenet and IRC
    in a terminal. Doing so fits into my broader goal of sticking to
    open-source software, especially with the code I've been writing lately.

    Oh, I've just started getting into ANSI art lately. I'll definitely need
    to see if I can find channels for those.

    I've been trying to be more aware of being Open Source-based with
    software, especially with the code I've been writing lately.

    I currently use an iPhone, and I hate that new laws are put in place
    every day to control us through our electronic devices. I've been trying
    to plan my escape from the smartphone life; I just haven't figured out
    how to break the news to my wife yet.

    I mostly just read aforementioned newsgroups, so in case I forget this but you'd like a reply, feel free to ping me an email or seek me on IRC.


    Hopefully the past four months have treated you well!
    --
    __ ___ ____
    / |/ /____ / __ \____ ____ ____ __________
    / /|_/ / ___/ / /_/ / __ \/ __ `/ _ \/ ___/ ___/
    / / / / / / _, _/ /_/ / /_/ / __/ / (__ )
    /_/ /_/_(_) /_/ |_|\____/\__, /\___/_/ /____/
    /____/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2