• Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next

    From a425couple@a425couple@hotmail.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Mon Sep 9 13:57:11 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!

    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
    for this astronaut taxi?
    News
    By Elizabeth Howell published 2 days ago
    It's too soon to tell when Starliner will fly again.

    Comments (8)
    When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. HererCOs how it works.

    black and white photo of a space capsule descending through the sky
    under three parachutes
    Boeing's Starliner capsule descends through Earth's atmosphere on Sept.
    7, 2024, heading for the touchdown that ended its Crew Flight Test
    mission. (Image credit: NASA)
    Boeing's Starliner capsule just returned to Earth without astronauts,
    marking the beginning of a new set of investigations by NASA.

    Starliner left the International Space Station (ISS) on Friday evening
    (Sept. 6), then aced a landing in New Mexico just after midnight on
    Saturday (Sept. 7). The touchdown brought an end to Crew Flight Test
    (CFT), Starliner's first-ever astronaut mission. But no astronauts came
    down with the capsule on Saturday; Starliner experienced problems with
    its reaction control system (RCS) thrusters shortly after CFT's June 5 liftoff, and NASA decided not to risk putting Williams and Wilmore
    aboard the capsule again.

    The duo have a solid homecoming plan: They'll ride back to Earth in
    February 2025 aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule rCo the one that will
    fly the company's Crew-9 mission, which is set to launch toward the ISS
    on Sept. 24. But what's next for the Starliner program is a bigger question.

    NASA tasked SpaceX and Boeing in 2014 with sending astronauts to and
    from the ISS. SpaceX, borrowing knowledge from its Cargo Dragon
    spacecraft, flew a Crew Dragon test mission to the station in 2019
    without astronauts and passed all metrics, allowing the company to
    launch its debut astronaut test flight the following year. That effort
    was successful, and SpaceX quickly moved to operational, long-duration astronaut missions to the ISS for NASA. It's in the middle of its eighth
    such flight and is gearing up for the ninth (Crew-9).

    Related: NASA astronauts can't wear Boeing Starliner spacesuits in
    SpaceX's Dragon. Here's why

    Starliner, a new design, has required quite a few adjustments. Its first mission, an uncrewed test flight in December 2019, failed to reach the
    ISS due to software glitches. The capsule succeeded on its second ISS
    try in May 2022 but experienced a few issues with its propulsion system
    during that flight.

    CFT has had hiccups as well rCo namely, helium leaks and the thruster
    issues. (Five of Starliner's 28 RCS thrusters failed as it chased the
    ISS down shortly after launch.) The mission was supposed to last just 10
    days or so, but NASA kept Starliner at the ISS for three months as it
    analyzed the thruster problems and what to do about them.

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    Those issues appear to be linked to overheating rCo a result, perhaps,
    both of the frequency of thruster use and their placement inside heat-retaining shelters on the outside of the spacecraft known as
    "doghouses." Bulging seals and insulation shedding appear to restrict
    the flow of propellant to the RCS thrusters.

    NASA and Boeing had hoped that CFT would pave the way for Starliner's
    first operational crewed flight. That mission, known as Starliner-1, is tentatively targeted for August 2025. But it's too soon to tell if
    Starliner will hit that timeline.

    "I think we'll see where we're at in another month or so, and have a
    little bit better idea of what the overall schedule will be," Steve
    Stich, manager of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, said during a
    post-landing press conference on Saturday morning.

    That schedule could even include another test flight before Starliner is certified for operational astronaut missions.

    "I would say it's probably too early to think about exactly what the
    next flight looks like. I think we want to take the next step to go look
    at all the data," Stich said.

    "We've got some things we know we've got to go work on," he added. "And
    we'll go do that and fix those things, and then go fly when we're ready."

    A white and black Boeing Starliner space capsule is seen docked at the International Space Station through a station window with the Earth below.

    Boeing Starliner docked at the International Space Station during Crew
    Flight Test in 2024. (Image credit: NASA)
    Much of this work will focus on the RCS thruster overheating issue and
    how to mitigate it.

    "What we need to do now is go take a thruster at White Sands [Test
    Facility in New Mexico] and make sure we understand the exact pulse
    sequences that cause the heating," Stich said. "And then, at the same
    time, in parallel, look at software changes to reduce the number of
    demands on the thrusters."

    Teams will also investigate removing or altering the thermal blankets
    inside the doghouses, to help keep the thrusters cooler, he added.

    "So it's really three different thrusts, I would say," Stich said.

    RELATED STORIES:
    rCo 'There was some tension in the room', NASA says of decision to bring Boeing's Starliner spacecraft home without astronauts

    rCo SpaceX's Crew-9 astronaut launch delayed to Sept. 24 due to Boeing Starliner issues

    rCo How 2 fatal shuttle disasters weighed on NASA's decision to bring
    Boeing Starliner astronauts home on SpaceX Dragon

    But there were plenty of positives to take from CFT, Stich stressed.
    Starliner performed very well during its entry, descent and landing
    today, he said, describing the touchdown in White Sands Space Harbor as
    a "bullseye." And he estimated that, despite Starliner's issues, Boeing
    was able to notch 85% to 90% of CFT's mission objectives.

    Joel Montalbano, deputy associate administrator for NASA's Space
    Operations Mission Directorate, also emphasized the positives, and
    sought to put CFT into the proper perspective.

    "It's important to remember: This was a test mission, right?" Montalbano
    said during the post-landing press conference. "We learned from this
    mission."

    Join our Space Forums to keep talking space on the latest missions,
    night sky and more! And if you have a news tip, correction or comment,
    let us know at: community@space.com.

    Elizabeth Howell
    Elizabeth Howell
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  • From a425couple@a425couple@hotmail.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Mon Sep 9 14:00:06 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    On 9/9/24 13:57, a425couple wrote:
    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!

    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
    for this astronaut taxi?
    News
    By Elizabeth Howell published 2 days ago
    It's too soon to tell when Starliner will fly again.

    -aComments (8)

    the comments included
    8 Comments
    Comment from the forums
    steve_foston
    It is sensible that NASA have more than 1 way for the USA to get there
    and back to the ISS so I wish Starliner well for the future. However is
    it sensible that the spacesuits for both vehicles are incompatible
    surely this needs sorting out - its like the air filters on A13 were a makeshift device allowed a square peg to go into a round hole surely we
    should have learnt something from this
    Reply
    Unclear Engineer
    Glad to see it made the return flight without any more problems.

    Hopefully, Boeing will stick with this project and make the capsule work reliably without having to "baby" the thrusters. Having tight limits on thruster use that are OK when everything else works as planned does not
    sound like a prudent policy, because there might not be enough margin to handle the thruster needs when something else is not going right.

    Considering that the capsule had thruster problems on its last 2 flights
    and NASA was unwilling to bet the crew's lives on the capsule for this reentry, it seems logical that Boeing is going to need to do another
    uncrewed flight to show that it has fixed the thruster problem
    sufficiently to warrant certifying it for crew.
    Reply
    trailrider
    If I understand correctly, one objective in creation of both crew and
    cargo spacecraft is reusability. Also, being able to check over major
    systems postflight is smart. How, then does Boeing justify a design like Starlink that discards a major portion of its RCS after a single flight?

    It is probably too late in the game for Boeing to do a redesign of
    Starlink, but perhaps some other company would be willing to come up
    with a spacecraft to back up Dragon, perhaps in conjunction with some commercial space station when ISS is deorbited. Also, there definitely
    should be compatability between space suits.
    Reply
    Unclear Engineer
    Trailrider,

    First, Boeing's capsule is "StarLiner" and this one was named "Calypso".
    " StarLink" is the SpaceX communication satellites.

    SpaceX's Dragon capsule also has a "service module" between the Falcon 9 booster and the Dragon capsule, which gets burned-up and not reused.
    When Sierra Space gets it DreamChaser capsule going, it will have a
    similar small service module that will not be reused.

    The huge SpaceX "StarShip" and its "SuperHeavy" first stage will be the
    first (nearly) totally reusable system, with both stages being able to
    reenter and be reused without an intermediate service module.

    The service modules for the current crop of capsules are designed to be
    the least expensive parts.
    Reply


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  • From R Kym Horsell@kymhorsell@gmail.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Tue Sep 10 00:31:32 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    In alt.astronomy a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    ...

    The next headline prob gives a hint.

    [Its Allays Da Custumers Folt!]
    Boeing Execs Snub NASA at News Conference After Starliner Landing
    Futurism, 09 Sep 2024 15:43Z


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Mon Sep 9 21:37:50 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    "R Kym Horsell" wrote in message news:vbo414$2i17$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

    In alt.astronomy a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    ...

    The next headline prob gives a hint.

    [Its Allays Da Custumers Folt!]
    Boeing Execs Snub NASA at News Conference After Starliner Landing
    Futurism, 09 Sep 2024 15:43Z

    ---------------------------------
    I've noticed that non-technical management tends to be nervous and defensive in a high tech organization. However good their educational credentials may
    be they can't presume intellectual superiority over the scientists or engineers.

    Being a lowly lab tech at Mitre I didn't talk to the politicians, but as a
    New Hampshire voter I do get the chance to quiz them in person. My question
    to Trump was, being an outsider, could he assemble a competent and
    adequately loyal Administration, and he didn't have a good answer. I
    mentioned Carter as an example of a very smart outsider who was hindered by inability to delegate responsibility, so Trump ran with insulting him.

    Typically (before Covid) Republicans and Libertarians were willing to be surrounded by a polite and inquisitive crowd, Democrats avoided such uncontrolled settings and unexpected questions. Bill Bradley was the exception. While the crowd concentrated on him I had a nice chat with Archibald Cox, the Watergate prosecutor, who actually had a high regard for Nixon.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,alt.fan.heinlein on Tue Sep 10 19:16:17 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    a425couple wrote on 10/9/24 6:57 am:
    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!

    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
    for this astronaut taxi?
    News
    By Elizabeth Howell published 2 days ago
    It's too soon to tell when Starliner will fly again.

    -aComments (8)
    When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. HererCOs how it works.

    black and white photo of a space capsule descending through the sky
    under three parachutes
    Boeing's Starliner capsule descends through Earth's atmosphere on Sept.
    7, 2024, heading for the touchdown that ended its Crew Flight Test
    mission. (Image credit: NASA)
    Boeing's Starliner capsule just returned to Earth without astronauts, marking the beginning of a new set of investigations by NASA.

    Starliner left the International Space Station (ISS) on Friday evening (Sept. 6), then aced a landing in New Mexico just after midnight on
    Saturday (Sept. 7). The touchdown brought an end to Crew Flight Test
    (CFT), Starliner's first-ever astronaut mission. But no astronauts came
    down with the capsule on Saturday; Starliner experienced problems with
    its reaction control system (RCS) thrusters shortly after CFT's June 5 liftoff, and NASA decided not to risk putting Williams and Wilmore
    aboard the capsule again.

    Hands up those who would volunteer to man the next Starliner flight to
    the ISS.

    Sure, I'd like to go .... but some certainty of returning would be real handy!! ;-P
    --
    Daniel
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Lesher@wb8foz@panix.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Tue Sep 10 15:50:16 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein


    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

    ...

    If they do quit, can we get the money we paid them for what they've
    not delivered?
    --
    A host is a host from coast to coast...............wb8foz@panix.com
    & no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
    Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
    is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From a425couple@a425couple@hotmail.com to rec.aviation.military,alt.astronomy,ca.politics,seattle.politics,alt.fan.heinlein on Wed Sep 11 15:39:00 2024
    From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

    On 9/10/24 08:50, David Lesher wrote:
    Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
    from
    https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
    ...

    If they do quit, can we get the money we paid them for what they've
    not delivered?

    Ahhhh,
    I am of a very strong opinion, that we need a
    2nd big plane manufacturer to succeed in this
    world.

    We would be very much degraded, if those wanting
    blood in return for mistakes (737Max, Starliner,
    etc.) got their wishes.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2