From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

And this is why I personally would not be at all surprised if
future exploration discovers life on Mars with genetic connections
to life on Earth. "panspermia"

from
https://www.space.com/mars-meteorites-5-craters-tharsis-elysium

200 meteorites on Earth traced to 5 craters on Mars
News
By Victoria Corless published August 23, 2024
Astronomers have traced the origins of 200 meteorites to five impact
craters in two volcanic regions on Mars, known as Tharsis and Elysium.

Comments (3)
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. HererCOs how it works.

craggy grey rocks float above a reddish orange planet
Illustration of a large meteorite above Mars. (Image credit:
Pitris/Getty Images)
Believe it or not, debris from Mars has frequently made its way to Earth
after powerful impacts hit the Red Planet's surface and launch it into
space.

There have been at least 10 of these meteorite-forming events in Mars'
recent history. When these massive impacts occur, meteorites can be
flung away from the Red Planet with enough velocity that they break free
of Mars' gravitational pull to enter orbit around the sun, with some eventually falling to Earth.

Scientists at the University of Alberta have now traced the origins of
200 of these meteorites to five impact craters in two volcanic regions
on Mars, known as Tharsis and Elysium. "Now, we can group these
meteorites by their shared history and then their location on the
surface prior to coming to Earth," said Chris Herd, curator of the university's meteorite collection and professor in the faculty of
science, in a statement.

Meteorites fall to Earth all the time rCo an estimated 48.5 tons (44,000 kilograms) of meteorite material falls each day, according to NASA rCo
though the majority make it to the surface as tiny unnoticeable
particles of dust. Determining their origins can often be difficult, but
in the 1980s, scientists became suspicious of a group of meteorites that appeared to have volcanic origins with ages of 1.3 billion years.

This meant that these rocks had to have come from a celestial body with
recent (in geological terms) volcanic activity, making Mars a likely candidate. However, proof came when NASA's Viking landers were able to
compare the composition of Mars' atmosphere with trapped gases found in
these rocks.

Identifying exactly from where on Mars they originated was previously difficult to do. The team noted in their paper that this difficulty
arose from using a technique called spectral matching, a technique used
to identify and compare the composition of materials by analyzing the
patterns of light they absorb or emit.

However, this method is limited by factors such as terrain variability
and extensive dust cover, which can skew spectral signals, especially on younger terrains like Tharsis and Elysium. But knowing exactly where
these Martian meteorites came from would allow scientists to better
piece together the planet's geological past.

Get the Space.com Newsletter
Breaking space news, the latest updates on rocket launches, skywatching
events and more!

Your Email Address
Contact me with news and offers from other Future brands
Receive email from us on behalf of our trusted partners or sponsors
By submitting your information you agree to the Terms & Conditions and
Privacy Policy and are aged 16 or over.
"[It would] enable the recalibration of Mars' chronology, with
implications for the timing, duration and nature of a wide range of
major events through Martian history," said Herd. "I call that the
missing link rCo to be able to say, for example, the conditions under
which this meteorite was ejected were met by an impact event that
produced craters between 10 and 30 kilometres across."

a dark grey pockmarked rock

A Martian meteorite known as Amgala 001, found in Western Sahara in
2022. (Image credit: Wikimedia Commons/Steve Jurvetson)
The team combined high-resolution simulations of impacts into a
Mars-like planet. "One of the major advances here is being able to model
the ejection process, and from that process be able to determine the
crater size or range of crater sizes that ultimately could have ejected
that particular group of meteorites, or even that one particular
meteorite," said Herd.

The model's output allowed the team to determine the impact events'
"peak shock pressures" and the duration the rocks were exposed to these pressures. This can be determined from "shock features" observed in the meteoritesrCofor example, unique mineral changes, impact glass, and
special fracture patterns.

From this data, Herd and his colleagues were able to estimate the size
of the impact craters that could have launched the meteorites, as well
as how deep the rocks were buried before the impact. Although these
depth estimates come with some uncertainty, the researchers compared
them with the local geology of possible source craters and the
characteristics and ages of the meteorites to see if they align.

RELATED STORIES:
rCorCe Mars is an asteroid punching bag, NASA data reveals

rCerCo The mystery of how Mars meteorites reach Earth may finally be solved

rCerCo Mars meteorites reveal clues about what lies within the Red Planet

"[Our modelling approach] allows us to say, of all these potential
craters, we can narrow them down to 15, and then from the 15 we can
narrow them down even further based on specific meteorite
characteristics," he said. "We can maybe even reconstruct the volcanic stratigraphy [the geological record], the position of all these rocks,
before they got blasted off the surface."

This could help the scientists better understand when volcanic events on
Mars occurred, the different sources of Martian magma, and how quickly
craters formed during an era of low meteorite bombardment on the Red
Planet known as the Amazonian period, some 3 billion years ago.

"It is really amazing if you think about it," Herd added. "It's the
closest thing we can have to actually going to Mars and picking up a rock."

Join our Space Forums to keep talking space on the latest missions,
night sky and more! And if you have a news tip, correction or comment,
let us know at: community@space.com.

Victoria Corless
Victoria Corless
Contributing Writer
A chemist turned science writer, Victoria Corless completed her Ph.D. in organic synthesis at the University of Toronto and, ever the clich|-,
realized lab work was not something she wanted to do for the rest of her
days. After dabbling in science writing and a brief stint as a medical
writer, Victoria joined WileyrCOs Advanced Science News where she works as
an editor and writer. On the side, she freelances for various outlets, including Research2Reality and Chemistry World.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

In alt.astronomy a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

And this is why I personally would not be at all surprised if
future exploration discovers life on Mars with genetic connections
to life on Earth. "panspermia"

...

At this point a good bet I think.

In the past few years theyve confirmed all the major ingredients of life-as-we-know-it have been found in meteorites and are now
assembling a list of things found in asteroid return samples.


Building block of life found in sample from asteroid Ryugu
Space.com, 21 Mar 2023
The discovery of the nucleobase uracil is a big step forward for astrobiology.
One of the four nucleobases of RNA has been discovered in samples retrieved
from the asteroid Ryugu, providing the strongest evidence yet that the
organic building blocks for life on Earth came from space.

All of the bases in DNA and RNA have now been found in meteorites
Science News, 26 Apr 2022
Space rocks that fell to Earth within the last century contain the five
bases that store information in DNA and RNA, scientists report April 26 in
Nature ...

Could the Blueprint for Life Have Been Generated in Asteroids?
NASA.gov, 26 Apr 2022
Using new analyses, scientists have just found the last two of the five
informational units of DNA and RNA that had yet to be discovered in ...

Scientists say the 'R' in RNA may be abundant in space
Phys.org, 8 Apr 2016
New research suggests that the sugar ribose - the "R" in RNA - is probably
found in comets and asteroids that zip through the solar system ...


Maybe 10y back I was subcontracted to work on the chemistry seen in
space. 10s of 1000s of chemical reactions are possible with what
has been detected in gas clouds all over. For some not-clear-to-me-at-the-time reason I was told to keep any results under my hat. The workd of course
was funded by the US military.

Maybe I should dig it out and have a look at it again. I wasnt tuned in
to looking at the carbon chemistry. I was infatuated by the quantum
chemistry of boron hydrides that showed structures "similar" to RNA
could self-construct at low temps. The calculations on that suggested
over enough time the compounds become very complex indeed. Hoyle would
have been tickled pink.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

"R Kym Horsell" wrote in message news:vaqdt4$26s2$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

Maybe 10y back I was subcontracted to work on the chemistry seen in
space. 10s of 1000s of chemical reactions are possible with what
has been detected in gas clouds all over. For some
not-clear-to-me-at-the-time
reason I was told to keep any results under my hat. The workd of course
was funded by the US military.

Maybe I should dig it out and have a look at it again. I wasnt tuned in
to looking at the carbon chemistry. I was infatuated by the quantum
chemistry of boron hydrides that showed structures "similar" to RNA
could self-construct at low temps. The calculations on that suggested
over enough time the compounds become very complex indeed. Hoyle would
have been tickled pink.


-----------------------------
These are DNA & RNA components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanine
"A FischerrCoTropsch synthesis can also be used to form guanine, along with adenine, uracil, and thymine. Heating an equimolar gas mixture of CO, H2,
and NH3 to 700 -#C for 15 to 24 minutes, followed by quick cooling and then sustained reheating to 100 to 200 -#C for 16 to 44 hours with an alumina catalyst, yielded guanine and uracil:

10CO + H2 + 10NH3 raA 2C5H8N5O (guanine) + 8H2O

Another possible abiotic route was explored by quenching a 90% N2rCo10%COrCoH2O
gas mixture high-temperature plasma."

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

In <vaqdt4$26s2$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> writes:

In alt.astronomy a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

And this is why I personally would not be at all surprised if
future exploration discovers life on Mars with genetic connections
to life on Earth. "panspermia"

...

At this point a good bet I think.

In the past few years theyve confirmed all the major ingredients of >life-as-we-know-it have been found in meteorites and are now
assembling a list of things found in asteroid return samples.

[snip]

Brings to mind this fascinating experiment in 1952 in which
a group of subversives at Univ of Chicago. I'll quote
a bit from Wikipedia:

"The Miller-Urey experiment[1] (or Miller experiment[2]) was an
experiment in chemical synthesis carried out in 1952 that simulated
the conditions thought at the time to be present in the atmosphere
of the early, prebiotic Earth. It is seen as one of the first
successful experiments demonstrating the synthesis of organic
compounds from inorganic constituents in an origin of life
scenario. The experiment used methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3),
hydrogen (H2), in ratio 2:2:1, and water (H2O). Applying an
electric arc (the latter simulating lightning) resulted in the
production of amino acids."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

They were, of course, ridiculed. Until lots of high
school chem labs (remember those?) replicated the work
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

"danny burstein" wrote in message news:var74d$d73$1@reader1.panix.com...

The Miller-Urey experiment...

Underwater volcanic vents have been recognized as other abiotic (non-biological) chemical synthesis sites, where the active oxidizing agent
is hot sulfur instead of oxygen.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

In alt.astronomy Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

"danny burstein" wrote in message news:var74d$d73$1@reader1.panix.com...

The Miller-Urey experiment...

Underwater volcanic vents have been recognized as other abiotic (non-biological) chemical synthesis sites, where the active oxidizing agent is hot sulfur instead of oxygen.

As one TV program put it -- they boiled and boiled various
combinations of pre-biotic Earth ingredients since the 1950s
and didnt seem to get past a mix of RNA components that most
chemists characterise as "easy enough to sythesize with random reactions".
Only in the past few years did anyone thing of alternating wet and dry conditions to get some polimerisation.

But if you have made a bad assumption about where the chemsitry
happened then you are not going to find the right conditions or
evidence it ever happened the way you thought since some Haldane and
some Russian in the 1920s.
--
Surprising Findings in NASA's OSIRIS-REx Asteroid Sample: Could They Unlock
the Origins of Life?
SciTechDaily, 08 Jul 2024 12:39Z

The most extreme life-forms in the universe
New Scientist, 26 June 2008
There's hardly a niche on Earth that hasn't been colonised. Life can be
found in scalding, acidic hot pools, in the driest deserts, and in ...

THE FERMI PARADOX AND THE AURORA EFFECT: EXO-CIVILIZATION SETTLEMENT, EXPANSION AND STEADY STATES
Carroll-Nellenback, Frank, Wright, Schart, 6 Feb 2020
We model the settlement of the galaxy by space-faring civilizations in
order to address issues related to the Fermi Paradox. We are motivated
to explore the problem in a way that avoids assumptions about the `agency' (i.e. questions of intent and motivation) of any exo-civilization
seeking to settle other planetary systems. We begin by considering the
speed of an advancing settlement front to determine if the galaxy can
become inhabited with space-faring civilizations on timescales shorter
than its age. Our models for the front speed include the directed
settlement of nearby settleable systems through the launching of
probes with a finite velocity and range. We also include the effect of
stellar motions on the long term behavior of the settlement front which
adds a diffusive component to its advance. As part of our model we also consider that only a fraction f of planets will have conditions ...

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

"R Kym Horsell" wrote in message news:vasj6n$pgj$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

THE FERMI PARADOX AND THE AURORA EFFECT: EXO-CIVILIZATION SETTLEMENT, EXPANSION
AND STEADY STATES
Carroll-Nellenback, Frank, Wright, Schart, 6 Feb 2020
We model the settlement of the galaxy by space-faring civilizations in
order to address issues related to the Fermi Paradox. We are motivated
to explore the problem in a way that avoids assumptions about the `agency' (i.e. questions of intent and motivation) of any exo-civilization
seeking to settle other planetary systems. We begin by considering the
speed of an advancing settlement front to determine if the galaxy can
become inhabited with space-faring civilizations on timescales shorter
than its age. Our models for the front speed include the directed
settlement of nearby settleable systems through the launching of
probes with a finite velocity and range. We also include the effect of
stellar motions on the long term behavior of the settlement front which
adds a diffusive component to its advance. As part of our model we also consider that only a fraction f of planets will have conditions ...

---------------------------------

It's valid to define a search area by what is possible, but it dilutes the effort and still depends on unknowable assumptions such as how fast they can travel. In many cases scenarios of what is probable may be as or more productive. One is searching for wounded grazing vs predatory animals, some may run as far as they can but the dangerous ones tend to circle back and
wait in ambush. The tactics to find them and live to tell about it are very different.

North Sentinel island in the Andamans is a human example, it remains undisturbed because the natives are so hostile to outsiders. Earth might
seem that way too. If I was from a species that had depleted its resources long ago I'd quarantine Earth for it's wasteful temptations.

The Titanic remained lost for so long because of an invalid assumption that they reported their correct position. Their first report was too far west by 20 miles, the revised one by 13, possibly due to a temperature inversion mirage "haze" that obscured the western horizon, and the iceberg.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

In alt.astronomy Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

"R Kym Horsell" wrote in message news:vasj6n$pgj$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

THE FERMI PARADOX AND THE AURORA EFFECT: EXO-CIVILIZATION SETTLEMENT, EXPANSION
AND STEADY STATES
Carroll-Nellenback, Frank, Wright, Schart, 6 Feb 2020
We model the settlement of the galaxy by space-faring civilizations in
order to address issues related to the Fermi Paradox. We are motivated
to explore the problem in a way that avoids assumptions about the `agency' (i.e. questions of intent and motivation) of any exo-civilization
seeking to settle other planetary systems. We begin by considering the
speed of an advancing settlement front to determine if the galaxy can
become inhabited with space-faring civilizations on timescales shorter
than its age. Our models for the front speed include the directed
settlement of nearby settleable systems through the launching of
probes with a finite velocity and range. We also include the effect of stellar motions on the long term behavior of the settlement front which
adds a diffusive component to its advance. As part of our model we also consider that only a fraction f of planets will have conditions ...

---------------------------------

It's valid to define a search area by what is possible, but it dilutes the effort and still depends on unknowable assumptions such as how fast they can travel. In many cases scenarios of what is probable may be as or more productive. One is searching for wounded grazing vs predatory animals, some may run as far as they can but the dangerous ones tend to circle back and wait in ambush. The tactics to find them and live to tell about it are very different.

North Sentinel island in the Andamans is a human example, it remains undisturbed because the natives are so hostile to outsiders. Earth might seem that way too. If I was from a species that had depleted its resources long ago I'd quarantine Earth for it's wasteful temptations.

The Titanic remained lost for so long because of an invalid assumption that they reported their correct position. Their first report was too far west by 20 miles, the revised one by 13, possibly due to a temperature inversion mirage "haze" that obscured the western horizon, and the iceberg.

Many of these questions can be answered by game-theory simulations.
I've done a few of them. Some of them based on first the Polynesian
expansion across the Pacific (a good model for alien expansion as well ;)
and then European colonialisation leads to some optimistic predictions
for what anyone that maybe tarted out sailing from our galactic core 13 bn years ago.
The general thrust seemed to be the early knocks they had
encountering new system along the way as well as other travellers
would smooth off a lot of the rough edges and they may be
a lot more gentle and less gung-ho exploitative than when
they may have started out.
There was an old SF short story that proposed
the same kind of pattern -- think it was called something like "gone fishin". --
[From the "get used to it" file:]
-- <http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/ 130524-australia-extreme-weather-climate-change-heat-wave-science-world/>
The rough-hewn sandstone buildings perched atop Observatory Hill have been keeping an eye on Sydney Harbor since 1858. They've pretty much seen it all-from the installation of the city's first gaslights to the construction of the now iconic Sydney Opera House and Harbor Bridge.
But at 2:55 p.m. on January 18, 2013, meteorological equipment in the observatory registered something new: a read-out marking the hottest day in
the city's history: 45.8?C (114.4?F).

Sydney enjoys record spell of warm weather
SMH, 19 Mar 2014 06:00Z
With Wednesday's peak of 27.8 degrees, Sydney has now clocked daily maximums of at least 25 degrees for the past 17 days, eclipsing the previous record
of 16 such days set in 1977, said Brett Dutschke, senior meteorologist
with Weatherzone.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

"R Kym Horsell" wrote in message news:vat20j$2u3p$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

Many of these questions can be answered by game-theory simulations.
I've done a few of them. Some of them based on first the Polynesian
expansion across the Pacific (a good model for alien expansion as well ;)
and then European colonialisation leads to some optimistic predictions
for what anyone that maybe tarted out sailing from our galactic core 13 bn years ago.
The general thrust seemed to be the early knocks they had
encountering new system along the way as well as other travellers
would smooth off a lot of the rough edges and they may be
a lot more gentle and less gung-ho exploitative than when
they may have started out.
There was an old SF short story that proposed
the same kind of pattern -- think it was called something like "gone
fishin".

-----------------------------------

Many advances have come from the bold imaginations of exceptional
individuals, whose proposals have often been dismissed or ridiculed by "normal" people. I doubt that they would have been thought of or allowed to
be added to computer models. Of course some have been spectacular failures, like the Franklin Expedition to find a Northwest Passage or Umberto Nobile's north pole flight in the airship "Italia".

I stopped reading fiction when I discovered that autobiographies of clever
and highly accomplished people could be more interesting.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.fan.heinlein

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:vatft2$lo0b$1@dont-email.me...

Many advances have come from the bold imaginations of exceptional >individuals, whose proposals have often been dismissed or ridiculed by >"normal" people. ...

Oliver Evans is a good example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Evans

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2