• Spaces

    From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 05:51:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tony Cooper@tonycooper214@gmail.com to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 00:01:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 05:51:56 +0200, Steve Hayes
    <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?

    Where I live (in the Orlando, Florida area) "urban area" would be
    appropriate. There are over a dozen different cities in the area. You
    can be on a street starting in Orlando and drive for ten miles on the
    same street and drive though the cities of Winter Park, Maitland,
    Casselberry, Altamonte Springs, Longwood, Lake Mary, and Sanford. All definitely "urban", but there are few "spaces".





    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Hibou@vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 06:44:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    Le 22/08/2026 |a 04:51, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?


    'Urban space' is certainly recent:

    <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=urban+space%2Curban+spaces&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>

    I have the impression that 'urban space' is pretty elastic, can apply to
    a single park or a whole city. An 'urban area', on the other hand, is delimited by areas that are not urban (sea or countryside). The Collins
    gives examples of 'urban space', but no definition:

    <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/urban-space>

    Cf.:

    <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/urban-area>

    Perhaps those who use 'urban space' have arCa gap in their vocabulary.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snidely@snidely.too@gmail.com to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 00:11:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    Steve Hayes is guilty of <oo6i8ltkv1pe6apqc8pldf8nsqepomcnci@4ax.com>
    as of 8/21/2026 8:51:56 PM
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?

    old news around here.


    -d
    --
    Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
    went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
    precious heavy water.
    _The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan Mackenzie@acm@muc.de to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 10:08:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly

    "increasingly"??

    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    The usage may come from mathematics. For example, a vector space is a
    set of "vectors" which can be added together or multiplied by "scalars", subject to a set of axioms. This usage is very old.

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    I would understand "urban spaces" as an abstraction describing cities,
    things which happen in them, interactions between people there, in
    particular as contrasted with how things work in the countryside.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Yes. We also have "women's spaces", i.e. places, buildings,
    organisations, etc., which exclude men.

    Any thoughts about it?

    I don't find it at all objectionable.

    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
    --
    Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From HVS@office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 12:17:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On 22 Aug 2026, Steve Hayes wrote

    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be
    incleqasingly common, especially in academic writing -- the uses
    of "spaces" for "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no
    buildings, but recently people seem to be using it to refer to
    built-up areas as well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?


    "Urban space" was certainly in use when I did my masters in
    planning/urban design (1974-76), as a non-specific term covering
    planned and unplanned spaces -- squares, plazas, building
    forecourts, porticos, intersections, widened street corners, or any
    other space where people interact, either formally or informally.

    AFAIR, it always had more to do with hard-landscaped spaces rather
    than parks, playgrounds, or playing-fields, which would have been
    "green" or "recreational" urban spaces. ("The Social Life of Small
    Urban Spaces" was a well-received short study published in 1980 by
    William H. Whyte, which I see has its own Wikipedia page these
    days.)

    A Google NGram shows it coming into use between 1960 and 1980 before
    shooting up since the 1990s.

    I would expect that "urban spaces" has expanded to cover planned and
    unplanned networks of spaces between the buildings of larger areas,
    but if it's being applied to what used to be called a neighbourhood,
    district, quartier, etc, that would strike me as generalising to the
    point of meaningless.
    --
    Cheers, Harvey

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sat Aug 22 19:21:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 06:44:12 +0100, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    Le 22/08/2026 |a 04:51, Steve Hayes a |-crit :
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?


    'Urban space' is certainly recent:

    <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=urban+space%2Curban+spaces&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>

    I have the impression that 'urban space' is pretty elastic, can apply to
    a single park or a whole city. An 'urban area', on the other hand, is >delimited by areas that are not urban (sea or countryside). The Collins >gives examples of 'urban space', but no definition:

    <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/urban-space>

    Thanks very much for that.

    Here are some examples of the usage:

    What are the specific challenges faced by rural women in urban spaces?

    Main objective: the objective of this research is to investigate the
    impact of rural-urban migrations in improving or worsening the quality
    of life and socio-economic well-being of young rural women in urban
    spaces.

    A noticeable social trend is the proliferation of liquor outlets,
    which serve as informal social hubs for youth and adults. These spaces
    often become alternatives to structured community engagement
    platforms.

    Applying this theory, churches in Mamelodi may function as local rCLmicro-centresrCY within peripheral spaces.

    CentrerCoperiphery theory conceptualises marginalised spaces as
    structurally excluded from decision-making centres (Scott & Marshall,
    1994).

    Media engagement should prioritize the safety, dignity, and agency of
    survivors by providing secure spaces for disclosure, avoiding
    sensationalist narratives, and adhering to ethical frameworks that
    minimize re-traumatization while amplifying accountability.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Brian Boutel@bboutel@me.com to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sun Aug 23 10:45:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On 22/08/2026 3:51 pm, Steve Hayes wrote:
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".
    I often hear it used in a non-physical sense.
    "In this space" refers to the subject of the discussion.
    I suppose that is similar to the use of "area" as in "subject area".

    --brian
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 23 03:47:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On 22 Aug 2026 at 04:51:56 BST, Steve Hayes wrote:

    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".

    When I hear or read "urban spaces" my first picture is of parks,
    playgrounds, sportsfields etc -- parts of cities with no buildings,
    but recently people seem to be using it to refer to built-up areas as
    well.

    Have any others come across this usage?

    Any thoughts about it?

    Space (in Urban Studies at least) generally refers to the physical characteristics of a town, city etc.

    Place, on the other hand, is the lived experience of that space.

    You could easily substitute 'city' or 'village' for 'space'. It just helps (a little) in the run up to a discussion of such things to make a distinction.
    --
    Cheers, Rob
    Sheffield, UK
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ram@ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) to alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 23 09:57:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote or quoted:
    Space (in Urban Studies at least) generally refers to the physical >characteristics of a town, city etc.

    | The concept of architecture as "space" was invented by German art his-
    | torians and theorists in the late 19th century. They used the German
    | word "Raum" (which encompasses room, space, and scope) to revolution-
    | ize design theory.
    |
    | When German architects and critics (such as those from the Bauhaus
    | school) fled to Great Britain and the United States in the 1930s,
    | they translated Raum into the English word "space".
    |
    | Architects like Frank Lloyd Wright manipulated space by creating
    | compression points (low ceilings opening into grand volumes), while
    | Mies van der Rohe declared that "architecture is the will of an epoch
    | translated into space."
    |
    | Sigfried Giedion's influential 1941 book, "Space, Time and Architec-
    | ture", solidified this vocabulary. Giedion linked architectural his-
    | tory to scientific breakthroughs (like Einstein's space-time theory),
    | arguing that modern materials like reinforced concrete and plate glass
    | finally allowed architects to treat space as a continuous, weightless
    | fluid.
    |
    | Details on that German development
    |
    | August Schmarsow (1893) In his seminal lecture, Schmarsow argued
    | that the essence of architecture was not the walls or the roof, but
    | the "intuition of space" (Raumgestaltung). He claimed architecture is
    | defined by the interior space that humans occupy and perceive through
    | movement.
    |
    | Gottfried Semper He proposed that the earliest architectural act was
    | not building a solid wall, but weaving a textile screen to enclose a
    | spatial volume. The wall was merely the dressing; the enclosed "Raum"
    | was the goal.

    Lines marked with "| " come from my editing, where I start by writing
    prompts for the chatbot and then edit the generated texts and format
    them for USENET. Chatbot might make mistakes and misrepresent or hal-
    lucinate facts.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 23 11:21:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On 23 Aug 2026 at 10:57:03 BST, Stefan Ram wrote:

    RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote or quoted:
    Space (in Urban Studies at least) generally refers to the physical
    characteristics of a town, city etc.

    | The concept of architecture as "space" was invented by German art his-
    | torians and theorists in the late 19th century. They used the German
    | word "Raum" (which encompasses room, space, and scope) to revolution-
    | ize design theory.
    |
    | When German architects and critics (such as those from the Bauhaus
    | school) fled to Great Britain and the United States in the 1930s,
    | they translated Raum into the English word "space".
    |
    | Architects like Frank Lloyd Wright manipulated space by creating
    | compression points (low ceilings opening into grand volumes), while
    | Mies van der Rohe declared that "architecture is the will of an epoch
    | translated into space."
    |
    | Sigfried Giedion's influential 1941 book, "Space, Time and Architec-
    | ture", solidified this vocabulary. Giedion linked architectural his-
    | tory to scientific breakthroughs (like Einstein's space-time theory),
    | arguing that modern materials like reinforced concrete and plate glass
    | finally allowed architects to treat space as a continuous, weightless
    | fluid.
    |
    | Details on that German development
    |
    | August Schmarsow (1893) In his seminal lecture, Schmarsow argued
    | that the essence of architecture was not the walls or the roof, but
    | the "intuition of space" (Raumgestaltung). He claimed architecture is
    | defined by the interior space that humans occupy and perceive through
    | movement.
    |
    | Gottfried Semper He proposed that the earliest architectural act was
    | not building a solid wall, but weaving a textile screen to enclose a
    | spatial volume. The wall was merely the dressing; the enclosed "Raum"
    | was the goal.

    Interesting variant, didn't know that, thanks.

    Lines marked with "| " come from my editing, where I start by writing
    prompts for the chatbot and then edit the generated texts and format
    them for USENET. Chatbot might make mistakes and misrepresent or hal-
    lucinate facts.
    --
    Cheers, Rob
    Sheffield, UK
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Chang Man-wai@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage on Sun Aug 23 22:55:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

    On 8/22/2026 11:51 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
    There is a curious usage os "spaces" that seems to be incleqasingly
    common, especially in academic writing -- the uses of "spaces" for
    "places" or "areas".

    Where I would say "urban areas" or "cities", these academics write
    "urban spaces".
    SpaceX ("space ex") just went IPO!!! :)
    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    The game is afoot... Meow...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english on Sun Aug 23 20:39:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage


    Ar an tr|!|| l|i is fiche de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh Stefan Ram:

    Lines marked with "| " come from my editing, where I start by writing
    prompts for the chatbot and then edit the generated texts and format
    them for USENET. Chatbot might make mistakes and misrepresent or hal-
    lucinate facts.

    Quite. So with any chatbot post, as well as the risk of the poster himself or herself making mistakes and misrepresenting facts (though hopefully not hallucinating them), there is further risk of the tool used making its own mistakes. I have mentioned in alt.usage.english before that I was bitten by the Oxford English Dictionary misleading me about the existence of a Spanish word; this annoyed me, and the OED is, in general, an authoritative, reliable source. Why would I sign up for input from something that is known to be routinely wrong?

    (A recent reason; the web is getting worse, search engines are getting worse, at least with Deepseek I am not constantly bombarded by GDPR popups and text phrased for SEO.)
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2