From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

I prefer "in the circumstances".
The circumstances surround you, you are not beneath them.

P. S. Greetings, group(s)
--
^-^. Sn!pe, bird brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

This article has a Cribbage score of nineteen.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 2026-02-12 19:47, Steve Hayes wrote:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

'under'. Because that what everyone I've ever heard it from used it.
--
Synonym: a word you can use instead of a word you can't spell.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Den 13.02.2026 kl. 02.47 skrev Steve Hayes:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

To me "in" seems the proper choice, and I see "under" as inspired from
"under these conditions". You are in the midddle of circomstances, but
you are under the yoke of conditions.
--
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Steve Hayes:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended
changing "in the circunstances" to "under the
circumstances".

Without the courtesy of a clear logical reason for the
amendment?

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any
particular reason for your choice?

I prefer /in/, because the word `circumstances`
literally means objects around the obsever, in a
cirle (as were). The observer, therefore, is /in/ that
circle.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Le 13/02/2026 |a 01:47, Steve Hayes a |-crit :

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

Many years ago, a civil servant chided me - civilly - for saying "under
the circumstances", so I've long been aware of this question. My policy
now is to use 'in', in accordance with the etymology ('circumstare', to
stand around), unless the circumstances are compelling, and then to use 'under'.

Fowler (in 'MEU' 1996) quotes the 1989 OED as taking this view: "Mere situation is expressed by '/in/ the circumstances', action affected is performed '/under/ the circumstances'." The current online edition of
the OED no longer says this.

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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Bertel Lund Hansen, on "in/under circumstances":

To me "in" seems the proper choice, and I see "under"
as inspired from "under these conditions". You are in
the midddle of circomstances, but you are under the
yoke of conditions.

Thanks for explaining the genesis of the error. Phrases
get easity confused in our minds, and without critical
analysis they crop up in speech and degrade language.

I had to correct a similar error in the documentation
for some SSH software. Although the maintainer is a
Brit, he used "different than" (obviously from confusion
with "other than").

That's automatic (uncoscious) writing for you :-)
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Verily, in article <t90tokp81f19543mthhldm8tnh6e2veqvu@4ax.com>, did hayesstw@telkomsa.net deliver unto us this message:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

I prefer "under the circumstances" because that's how I've usually heard
and read it.

With different phrasing, I could see "in." For instance, "In
circumstances like these..." sounds natural to me, although "under"
would also work.
--
The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
United States of America - North America - Earth
Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 13/02/26 20:55, Anton Shepelev wrote:

I had to correct a similar error in the documentation for some SSH
software. Although the maintainer is a Brit, he used "different
than" (obviously from confusion with "other than").

This could be a hypercorrection error. As I understand it, BrE speakers
often say "different to", even though they're told that it's incorrect.
So I can imagine an author writing "to", thinking "oh, no, that's
wrong", and "correcting" it to "than".
--
Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

In article <t90tokp81f19543mthhldm8tnh6e2veqvu@4ax.com>,
Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the >circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

Both seem perfectly idiomatic to me and can't see any consistent
distinction between them.

-- Richard
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Peter Moylan to Anton Shepelev:

I had to correct a similar error in the
documentation for some SSH software. Althought the
maintainer is a Brit, he used "different than"
(obviously from confusion with "other than").

That's automatic (uncoscious) writing for you :-)

This could be a hypercorrection error. As I understand
it, BrE speakers often say "different to", even though
they're told that it's incorrect.

Well, because it is. My e-mail explained this:

-------------------------------------------------------

Both prepositions
have been used with `different' since way before the
inception of the American nation, `different to' having
always been in the tiny minority. Later, Victorian
writers condemned `different to' altogether, and in that
I agree with them, because the correct preposition is
determined by the original verb, viz.:

to differ from -- different from
to diverge from -- divergent from
to depend (up)on -- dependent (up)on
to attend (up)on -- attendant (up)on
to coincide with -- coincident with
&c.

`different to' is obviously a vulgar error due rather to
ignorance of the language, than love for it. It is not
a genuine improvement or even a neutral change. In
biological terms, it is a bad mutation. <-------------------------------------------------------

and he agreed with it, saying that I had out-language-
nerded him.

So I can imagine an author writing "to", thinking "oh,
no, that's wrong", and "correcting" it to "than".

That's possible indeed.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage


Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> posted:

Le 13/02/2026 |a 01:47, Steve Hayes a |-crit :

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

Many years ago, a civil servant chided me - civilly - for saying "under
the circumstances", so I've long been aware of this question. My policy
now is to use 'in', in accordance with the etymology ('circumstare', to stand around), unless the circumstances are compelling, and then to use 'under'.

Fowler (in 'MEU' 1996) quotes the 1989 OED

H. W. Fowler died in 1933. He never knew what was published in 1989. Let
us not insult his memory by attributing Burchfield's feeble 3rd edition
to him.

Now that we're in the modern world, the only Fowler Google seems to have
heard of is some footballer.

as taking this view: "Mere
situation is expressed by '/in/ the circumstances', action affected is performed '/under/ the circumstances'." The current online edition of
the OED no longer says this.

--
athel

Living in Marseilles for 38 years; mainly in England before that
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 09:50:17 +0000, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

Le 13/02/2026 |a 01:47, Steve Hayes a |-crit :

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the
circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

Many years ago, a civil servant chided me - civilly - for saying "under
the circumstances", so I've long been aware of this question. My policy
now is to use 'in', in accordance with the etymology ('circumstare', to >stand around), unless the circumstances are compelling, and then to use >'under'.

Fowler (in 'MEU' 1996) quotes the 1989 OED as taking this view: "Mere >situation is expressed by '/in/ the circumstances', action affected is >performed '/under/ the circumstances'." The current online edition of
the OED no longer says this.

In that case I should probably have used under, as the sentence was
saying that children had behaved well, and behaviour is action.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 2026-02-13 03:55, Anton Shepelev wrote:

Bertel Lund Hansen, on "in/under circumstances":

To me "in" seems the proper choice, and I see "under"
as inspired from "under these conditions". You are in
the midddle of circomstances, but you are under the
yoke of conditions.

Thanks for explaining the genesis of the error. Phrases
get easity confused in our minds, and without critical
analysis they crop up in speech and degrade language.

I think that hits the nail between the eyes.

I had to correct a similar error in the documentation
for some SSH software. Although the maintainer is a
Brit, he used "different than" (obviously from confusion
with "other than").

That's automatic (uncoscious) writing for you :-)

--
We KNOW the world isn't flat.
If it was, cats would have dropped everything of the edge by now.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

lar3ryca:

I think that hits the nail between the eyes.

Of a dead horse?
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 16/02/2026 10:22, Anton Shepelev wrote:

lar3ryca:

I think that hits the nail between the eyes.

Of a dead horse?

After the stable door has bolted?
--
Sam Plusnet
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 2026-02-13, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the
circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

I prefer "in the circumstances".
The circumstances surround you, you are not beneath them.

Always?

Might it be that sometimes one is surrounded by
them, and other times less surrounded by them
such that "under the" represents that relative
lesser degree more accurately than "in the"?
--
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| this line was supposed to be clever | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

On 2026-02-13, Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes:

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any
particular reason for your choice?

I prefer /in/, because the word `circumstances`
literally means objects around the obsever, in a
cirle (as were). The observer, therefore, is /in/ that
circle.

Nice, although now I wish I'd not posted so hastily
in followup to someone else!
--
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| this line was supposed to be clever | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

oldernow:

Might it be that sometimes one is surrounded by them,
and other times less surrounded by them such that
"under the" represents that relative lesser degree
more accurately than "in the"?

Well, you could say "under the cicrumstances" if you
were buried under the contents of a suddenly collapsed
upper shelf.
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From Newsgroup: alt.english.usage

Op 13/02/2026 om 2:47 schreef Steve Hayes:

A bloke just proofread a MS of mine, and recommended changing "in the circunstances" to "under the circumstances".

When editing text, I've usually gone the other way, changing "under"
to "in".

I suppose if you are under the circumstances, the circumstances
surround the epicentre.

Which preposition do you prefer, and is there any particular reason
for your choice?

Dutch and German have "onder deze omstandigheden" and "unter den Umst|nnden". French and Spanish "dans ces circonstances" and "en estas circunstancias".

Google Translate translates whatever preposition you put, eg
D. "onder, in, tussen" -> E. "under, in, between".
DeepL however sticks to "under".

I understand "under" here as "amongst/between" (-#), like in "under
friends" and related L,F,Sp "inter, entre".

(-#) with interesting distinctions between(:) "among" and "between". Also
in other languages, but not identical.
--
guido wugi
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