• Editing PDF files

    From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 21:24:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 20:45:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/9/29 20:24:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Sounds like finding a different employer would be good, but ...

    What are these files - are they all different, or are they a table of
    some sort, which she could generate and send back - if the format is not exactly as they sent, then they can either buy her some software or lump
    it! As for creating tables, any word processor _should_ be able to - I
    use Word 2003 - you don't need a spreadsheet unless you're actually
    going to do sums (or some other operations) on the contents; but most
    people see/think "table" and assume they have to use a spreadsheet, so
    that is an option (just not IMO the best one).

    Presumably "Management" are not _creating_ these files in PDF, but
    converting them for (apparent!) ease of reading; can she find out what
    they _are_ created in, and maybe get them in that, assuming she has
    something that can open them?

    I take it the "names and data" relate to her job as a teacher?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'.
    You can't design paper that you can only write good things on. There
    are no good or evil tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a
    tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee, Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From T@T@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 12:49:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 9/29/26 12:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Hi Carlos,

    You've been busy!

    PDFs are not really meant to be edited like a word processor.
    But you can, a little.

    I use Master PDF Editor. I even create math fields with it.
    File --> Export --> As Word

    Then LO can pick it up. It can also export as text and CSV.
    But it does not work on pictures. You can do OCR (optical
    character recognition) on them to get text. But you may
    have to retype everything.

    There is also PDF Studio, which also has the option. Master
    PDF Editor has RPM and Deb support and wonderful technical
    support. They fix bugs I find all the time.

    OnlyOffice works sort of okay on PDFs, but I would not
    recommend installing it, as the rest of the suite is
    so buggy it will bring tears to your eyes, especially
    when it buggers up your ODTs.

    -T
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From PDF Files@invalid@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 21:05:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 29/09/2026 20:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    PDF documents intended for completion can be filled in using any latest
    web browser. I create PDF forms that can be filled in in a browser. Try filling one in to see if it works. Otherwise, send us a link to the file
    so that we can try filling it in using Word, LO or a browser.




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From knuttle@keith_nuttle@yahoo.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 17:13:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10


    On 09/29/2026 3:45 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/29 20:24:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Sounds like finding a different employer would be good, but ...

    What are these files - are they all different, or are they a table of
    some sort, which she could generate and send back - if the format is not exactly as they sent, then they can either buy her some software or lump
    it! As for creating tables, any word processor _should_ be able to - I
    use Word 2003 - you don't need a spreadsheet unless you're actually
    going to do sums (or some other operations) on the contents; but most
    people see/think "table" and assume they have to use a spreadsheet, so
    that is an option (just not IMO the best one).

    Presumably "Management" are not _creating_ these files in PDF, but
    converting them for (apparent!) ease of reading; can she find out what
    they _are_ created in, and maybe get them in that, assuming she has
    something that can open them?

    I take it the "names and data" relate to her job as a teacher?

    If it is not prevented in the File attributes, the easiest way to fill
    any PDF file is to add the new information as a comment. Click the
    Comments in the right panel.

    This brings up the Comment menu which is at the top just below the
    Functions Menu.

    Select the standard T, and position the cursor where you want to add the information, and type that information. You may need to adjust the
    font size to match the font already in the PDF. If it is not positioned correctly in the line, in the side bar click Comments and the comment
    than needs re positioned. The text in the document can then be moved to better match the line.

    This sounds complicated but once you have matched the font, and done it
    once, subsequent changes means just repositioning the cursor. This
    method will only work IF there is no text in the space where you want to
    add the new information.

    To make it permanent for sending to a client, print the document using
    one of the many PDF prints that are available. When printed your text
    will be a permanent part of the document.






    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaidy036@Zaidy036@air.isp.spam to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 18:26:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john@john@jeason.cix.co.uk (John K.Eason) to alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 00:05:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    In article <osftomx8qd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
    wrote:

    *From:* "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
    *Date:* Tue, 29 Sep 2026 21:24:40 +0200

    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to
    edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt
    and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I
    don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't
    try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software
    nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and
    copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text
    doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES__, EU__;


    If the files have actual interactive form fields in them, the free Foxit Reader can be used to fill and save them without problem. See Chapter 6 in the downloadable User manual.

    https://www.foxit.com/pdf-reader/
    --
    Regards
    John
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ....winston@winstonmvp@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 20:15:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Were the PDF files created with edit-able fields?

    My time editing PDF files is limited to receiving a file with edit-able
    fields or using Adobe subscription products.
    - I have seen a few recommendations from SMB folks not having large
    budgets using Acrobat Online and also Sejda PDF Editor(online and
    desktop app)..
    --
    ...w-i|#-o-#-n|#
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 01:30:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/9/30 1:15:6, ....winston wrote:
    On 09/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Were the PDF files created with edit-able fields?

    My time editing PDF files is limited to receiving a file with edit-able fields or using Adobe subscription products.
    - I have seen a few recommendations from SMB folks not having large budgets using Acrobat Online and also Sejda PDF Editor(online and
    desktop app)..

    Carlos - are you still reading this thread?

    We really need to know a bit more about these files, and the names and
    data that has to be inserted into them. Are they a table or similar, or something else entirely? Are they all different, or similar?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    A lert ness should precede a round tuit.
    - "Sn!pe" in eternal-september.test, 2026-5-27
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 01:27:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/9/29 23:26:58, Zaidy036 wrote:
    On 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    "I don't have word (nor does she"
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    A lert ness should precede a round tuit.
    - "Sn!pe" in eternal-september.test, 2026-5-27
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From T@T@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 16:51:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 9/29/26 3:26 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
    On 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word
    can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word
    (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself.
    Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops.
    Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy
    to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't
    flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    1+ LO works too.

    With Master PDF Editor, you can modify the text, but it won't
    re-space the line. If it's a misspelling, it's great. If
    you subtract text, you get a big empty space. You can
    guess what happens if you add text. Yes, they run together.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 22:45:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    They expect her to edit PDF files, but won't give her the tools to do
    so. Whomever is giving her the PDF files hasn't a clue about creating
    editable PDFs; i.e., PDFs with forms with fields that can be filled in,
    and can even use qualifiers or code to determine the correct type of
    data to enter in the fields. From their ignorance in creating fixed
    PDFs, or without forms, I suspect they are creating them using an
    emulated printer, like Print presenting a "PDF" printer to where the
    printout gets directed. They don't know how to do PDFs, and yet expect
    her to know more than them yet not provide the tools to do so.

    In a tit-for-tat retaliation, have her print the PDFs to paper, have her
    edit the paper copy, and send them the paper copy. Let those idiots
    figure out how to transcribe (scan) her paper copy to a PDF copy.

    Knowing the higher-ups are likely not just idiots, but also control
    freaks demanding whatever they want, have her use a PDF viewer that can
    also annotate the PDF. The annotations are saved in the PDF as a
    separate layer. I use PDF-Xchange Editor (free version) to both view
    and annotate in different fonts, size, and colors, but annotations are a
    clumsy way to update a PDF file. The annotations get flattened when the
    PDF is saved, so they become permanent.

    In PDFs, the fields in a form can be scripted to qualify what content
    can be entered in the fields. If scripting is disabled in a PDF
    viewer/editor (as I do in mine), the fields will be presented, but the
    user cannot enter data into those fields. At that point, annotation can
    place content atop the input fields, but it really hasn't been added as
    form data. It is another layer overlapping the fields, and gets
    flattened on saving. Once saved, those annotations can no longer be
    separately selected, like to move them around, change font or color.
    The annotations become fixed just like all the other text in the PDF.

    There are other PDF viewers/editors that can do annotations. "Editor"
    for free PDF tools means adding annotations. They don't permit the
    existing content. So, her higher-ups doling out PDFs should either
    provide areas in them where data can be added, like placing an
    annotation within a text box, or she'll have to add annotations in the
    margins, white space, or atop existing text or images.

    Her higher-ups will have to deal with her annotations as fixed content
    in the returned PDFs.

    Her employers do not provide her with Word. So just how is she to
    converse with anyone there without a document editor shared amongst the employees? They send document in text-only format to use Notepad?

    There are online resources that claim to let you edit PDFs; for example:

    https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/pdf-editor.html https://www.canva.com/pdf-editor/
    and others (https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=edit+pdf).

    I have not used any of those. I just add annotations. Online editors
    are unwise if the content of the PDF is sensitive (banking, financial
    company docs, personal bank data, etc). How was the PDF delivered to
    her? Via e-mail? If not encrypted then the higher-ups are not
    interested in security, so using online editors should be okay.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From T@T@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Sep 29 20:56:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 9/29/26 5:27 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    "I don't have word (nor does she"

    LibreOffice will read a M$O document. And LO
    has a wonderful PDF export too.

    Not seeing what the problem is here.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 00:23:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Apparently Firefox browser can fill a form.pdf .

    Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, "in theory", can fill out a
    form, but it is a bloated whale of a thing with brokenness
    at the moment. They're too busy breaking it, to be interested
    in their users. I no longer have that installed on C: here,
    I gave up on it. Too much evil.

    Via version numbers, a recently created form.pdf would
    not be able to be opened by things like Acrobat Reader 9,
    so you cannot rely on older versions of a thing, to get
    around the Adobe Reader DC mess.

    I can't even find a program to "classify" the files. The
    Linux file command, treats them all the same, by just
    sniffing the PDF string at the top of the file, rather than
    looking inside the file. This means I can't scan my disk for
    samples of form.pdf type files.

    Some documents need the Javascript interpreter in Acrobat Reader
    to be turned on. This applies to things like government forms
    that have a "sanitizing" feature for actively checking what
    you enter in a box, and complaining about the format you enter.

    And it goes downhill from there. Lots of tools only handle
    plain PDFs and not the other types.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 00:26:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 9/29/2026 8:30 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/30 1:15:6, ....winston wrote:
    On 09/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can >>> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does >>> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to >>> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Were the PDF files created with edit-able fields?

    My time editing PDF files is limited to receiving a file with edit-able
    fields or using Adobe subscription products.
    - I have seen a few recommendations from SMB folks not having large
    budgets using Acrobat Online and also Sejda PDF Editor(online and
    desktop app)..

    Carlos - are you still reading this thread?

    We really need to know a bit more about these files, and the names and
    data that has to be inserted into them. Are they a table or similar, or something else entirely? Are they all different, or similar?


    If you want to experiment, you can try this one.

    It's pretty hard to guarantee these don't have exploits in them.
    I scanned it, but that doesn't mean anything.

    https://themodernfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Sample-Fillable-PDF.pdf

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ....winston@winstonmvp@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 00:34:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/29/2026 8:27 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/29 23:26:58, Zaidy036 wrote:
    On 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can >>> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does >>> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to >>> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    "I don't have word (nor does she"

    Just wondering.....
    Is this person(her) the same as the one(a few days ago) who previously
    had an employer or education provided Office edition, and now no longer
    has access to that Office editon
    - i.e. needing to decide on purchasing Office or 3rd party alternative.
    --
    ...w-i|#-o-#-n|#
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 06:53:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 07:34:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.



    Or get a Mac. The free Preview app edits pdfs just fine ;^)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Philip Herlihy@nothing@invalid.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 10:48:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    In article <osftomx8qd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, robin_listas@es.invalid
    says...

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can >directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself),


    The key thing to know is whether these PDF files are correctly created
    as "forms". If they are, then you should be able to fill them in (not
    the same as 'edit') in the free Acrobat reader, or in a browser (Edge
    works well for PDFs). As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, simply
    using a "print to PDF" pseudo-printer won't generate a form which can be filled in in this way.

    If they aren't - and the fields you're supposed to complete are just
    part of what appears to be a read-only document - then you do indeed
    need to edit the file to do what they want.

    PDFGear is a surprisingly capable free PDF editor:
    https://www.pdfgear.com/ - my only grumble (but it's free!) is that it's
    a little slow to load. Under the Comment menu, use Text Box or Add Text commands, and save. The Edit menu has more options. The Form menu
    allows you to highlight any form fields that the document contains (and
    fill them in).

    You mention not having access to Word: if you create a Microsoft Account
    that gets you an email address, 5GB of free OneDrive storage, and access
    via a browser to Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other applications. These
    are used within a browser, and you can 'convert' each app (site) to an
    "app" which you could put on your taskbar, which makes them behave
    remarkably like installed applications. Visit
    https://onedrive.live.com/, register for a Microsoft Account and log in,
    and the four main apps are there to be clicked right in front of you.
    All free. Files are auto-saved into the OneDrive cloud storage (which
    can be synchronised with your PC/Laptop). Get anywhere near 5GB and
    you'll get daily nags to upgrade to 100GB which costs about u20 a year.
    You can register any email address as a Microsoft Account, which avoids
    being given a new address - the address you use is just a "userid" for
    your MS Account.
    --
    --
    Phil, London
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 11:14:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    "Carlos E.R." wrote:

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back.

    Actually editing the document, as opposed to filling-in embedded forms?

    PDF was not designed for the former ...

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 12:21:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-29 21:49, T wrote:
    On 9/29/26 12:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word
    can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word
    (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself.
    Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops.
    Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy
    to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't
    flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Hi Carlos,

    You've been busy!

    PDFs are not really meant to be edited like a word processor.
    But you can, a little.

    I know. And she knows, yet she insists, because she actually has to fill
    those documents.


    I use Master PDF Editor. I even create math fields with it.
    File --> Export --> As Word
    Then LO can pick it up. It can also export as text and CSV.
    But it does not work on pictures. You can do OCR (optical
    character recognition) on them to get text. But you may
    have to retype everything.

    It is an idea. I read that it is freemium, and the test version adds a watermark.



    There is also PDF Studio, which also has the option. Master
    PDF Editor has RPM and Deb support and wonderful technical
    support. They fix bugs I find all the time.

    Non gratis, I read.

    She can pay for something, but I hate she has to pay for something her employer should provide.

    Yes, certainly her bosses must be creating the original documents in
    something else, either MS Office or LO. I will find out when I get hold
    of one such document. But they are not sending the teachers the original documents, I can't understand why. How do they expect their staff to
    fill them? I don't get the rationale.

    Maybe the PDFs are actually forms? That would make sense.


    OnlyOffice works sort of okay on PDFs, but I would not
    recommend installing it, as the rest of the suite is
    so buggy it will bring tears to your eyes, especially
    when it buggers up your ODTs.

    Ah, no.


    -T


    I must leave and travel about now, so will read the other replies later
    or tomorrow. I see a lot of replies.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ammammata@ammammata@tiscali.it to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 12:24:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Carlos E.R. expressed precisely :
    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back.

    tell the management to properly use the software used to create the pdf
    with text boxes to be filled by the user with a standard pdf VIEWER

    with libreoffice writer is quite easy, with microsoft word I never
    tried
    --
    /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
    -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
    -.-. .... . ... .. ...- .. -. -.-. .- --- -.-. .... . ... .. .--. . .-.
    -.. .-
    ..-. --- .-. --.. .- - --- .-. --- . .--- ..- ...- . -- . .-. -.. .-
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 13:20:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/9/30 11:21:7, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    I must leave and travel about now, so will read the other replies later
    or tomorrow. I see a lot of replies.


    Can we suspend discussion until Carlos gets back, as until we know
    rather more about these documents (what are they, forms, tables, etc;
    what is the data that has to be added; _are_ these PDFs of the type that
    has fillable fields; etc.) - which only he can tell us - further
    discussion only adds heat, not light?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    They are public servants, so we will threat them rather as Flashman
    treats servants. - Stephen Fry on some people's attitudo to the BBC, in
    Radio Times, 3-9 July 2010
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 13:58:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Chris wrote:

    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.

    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error :-P


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From knuttle@keith_nuttle@yahoo.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 09:30:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/30/2026 8:58 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error Efyc
    Earlier I suggested filling in the forms using the Comments-Text
    function of the Adobe Reader, and they printing the form to a PDF printer.

    Am I the only one that uses this method to fill out PDF documents?


    I also use the same method to add citation information to documents.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ....winston@winstonmvp@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 10:23:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/29/2026 11:45 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    They expect her to edit PDF files, but won't give her the tools to do
    so. Whomever is giving her the PDF files hasn't a clue about creating editable PDFs; i.e., PDFs with forms with fields that can be filled in,
    and can even use qualifiers or code to determine the correct type of
    data to enter in the fields. From their ignorance in creating fixed
    PDFs, or without forms, I suspect they are creating them using an
    emulated printer, like Print presenting a "PDF" printer to where the
    printout gets directed. They don't know how to do PDFs, and yet expect
    her to know more than them yet not provide the tools to do so.



    Ditto...I also suspect the transmitted PDF's are not editable PDF's.
    --
    ...w-i|#-o-#-n|#
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ....winston@winstonmvp@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 10:36:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/30/2026 9:30 AM, knuttle wrote:
    On 09/30/2026 8:58 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error Efyc
    Earlier I suggested filling in the forms using the Comments-Text
    function of the Adobe Reader, and they printing the form to a PDF printer.

    Am I the only one that uses this method to fill out PDF documents?


    I also use the same method to add citation information to documents.

    That's always an option, but cumbersome for the end-user.

    As other's have mentioned, the lack of the sender sending an editable
    pdf document is the likely root cause of this problem.
    --
    ...w-i|#-o-#-n|#
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ....winston@winstonmvp@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 10:50:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/30/2026 5:48 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:

    The key thing to know is whether these PDF files are correctly created
    as "forms". If they are, then you should be able to fill them in (not
    the same as 'edit') in the free Acrobat reader, or in a browser (Edge
    works well for PDFs). As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, simply
    using a "print to PDF" pseudo-printer won't generate a form which can be filled in in this way.
    Agreed, the Pdf files sent are not editable documents, thus requiring
    the recipient to jump through more than a few hoops to manage editing.


    You mention not having access to Word: if you create a Microsoft Account
    that gets you an email address, 5GB of free OneDrive storage, and access
    via a browser to Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other applications.

    Yes, that is an option..but if this is the same person that Carlos
    previously posted(setting up a device for her, where she previously
    obtained office from 'a friend's husband who supplied her an edition
    provided to him from his employer' and that option for Office was/is no
    longer available), Carlos also stated that same person getting or using
    an Microsoft Account was a 'blocker'.

    Maybe Carlos, will be able to clarify
    - same person
    - willing or not willing to obtain and use a Microsoft account
    - willing or not willing to obtain a Office version(which requires an
    MSA for activation and use)
    --
    ...w-i|#-o-#-n|#
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From PDF Files@invalid@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 18:17:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 30/09/2026 14:30, knuttle wrote:
    On 09/30/2026 8:58 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error Efyc
    Earlier I suggested filling in the forms using the Comments-Text
    function of the Adobe Reader, and they printing the form to a PDF
    printer.

    Am I the only one that uses this method to fill out PDF documents?


    I also use the same method to add citation information to documents.


    I created a PDF sample form using LibreOffice. Try filling it in using
    any of the apps you have. By 'filling it', I don't mean add comments. I actually mean enter the details as you would on a paper form, but using
    the keyboard for a digital document. Download the file first in this case.

    <https://mega.nz/file/XhhX3b7D#ATBdHlS--bF9-XabQPy54VfpQTTQMisyTjHxWK36VxQ>

    The whole idea behind PDF files is that they should be 'portable',
    meaning that users should be able to open and fill them in on any
    device, including those running Windows, Linux, macOS, Android and iOS.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 13:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Chris wrote:

    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.

    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error :-P

    Misalign the sheet on the scanner. Skewed text is harder to OCR. And
    scan in black-n-white mode at low resolution to make the scanned image
    more grainy.

    I suspect if they don't have PDF software to create editable PDFs, or
    add fields for form data, that they probably don't have an OCR software, either. Could be a small school where budgeting is very tight. Could
    be this school, and its teachers, don't have scanners. But the teacher
    has the .pdf file, so could use a slew of PDF viewers/editors that can
    annotate PDFs, and she send back the annotated PDF however she got it.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 18:26:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On 09/30/2026 8:58 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error ?

    Earlier I suggested filling in the forms using the Comments-Text
    function of the Adobe Reader, and they printing the form to a PDF printer.

    Am I the only one that uses this method to fill out PDF documents?

    No comment as I hardly ever (never?) have to fill in PDF forms.

    $DRIFT ON

    I also use the same method to add citation information to documents.

    Yes, I use such a method - but in Edge [1] - to add citation, etc. information to documents.

    [1] Click on the '[T]' ('Add text') on the menu bar.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 18:39:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Chris wrote:

    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.

    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error :-P

    Misalign the sheet on the scanner. Skewed text is harder to OCR. And
    scan in black-n-white mode at low resolution to make the scanned image
    more grainy.

    I suspect if they don't have PDF software to create editable PDFs, or
    add fields for form data, that they probably don't have an OCR software, either.

    If they have Windows 11, they have - quite basic - 'OCR sofware',
    namely Snipping Tool. Whether they know that Snipping Tool has some
    basic OCR functionaly and know how to use it, is another matter.

    Could be a small school where budgeting is very tight. Could
    be this school, and its teachers, don't have scanners. But the teacher
    has the .pdf file, so could use a slew of PDF viewers/editors that can annotate PDFs, and she send back the annotated PDF however she got it.

    As I mentioned in another response, Edge can annotate PDFs, no need
    for other/additional sofware.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From T@T@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 12:07:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 9/30/26 3:21 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-09-29 21:49, T wrote:
    On 9/29/26 12:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to
    edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and
    Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have
    word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself.
    Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops.
    Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy
    to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't
    flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Hi Carlos,

    You've been busy!

    PDFs are not really meant to be edited like a word processor.
    But you can, a little.

    I know. And she knows, yet she insists, because she actually has to fill those documents.


    I use Master PDF Editor. I even create math fields with it.
    File --> Export --> As Word
    Then LO can pick it up. It can also export as text and CSV.
    But it does not work on pictures. You can do OCR (optical
    character recognition) on them to get text. But you may
    have to retype everything.

    It is an idea. I read that it is freemium, and the test version adds a watermark.

    It is not too expensive. I pay for it every year.



    There is also PDF Studio, which also has the option. Master
    PDF Editor has RPM and Deb support and wonderful technical
    support. They fix bugs I find all the time.

    Non gratis, I read.

    She can pay for something, but I hate she has to pay for something her employer should provide.

    Huh? That sound fishy. Did they even provide her with a computer?
    They must think she does not need any software for those forms.
    You need to take a look at them.


    Yes, certainly her bosses must be creating the original documents in something else, either MS Office or LO. I will find out when I get hold
    of one such document. But they are not sending the teachers the original documents, I can't understand why. How do they expect their staff to
    fill them? I don't get the rationale.

    Maybe the PDFs are actually forms? That would make sense.


    OnlyOffice works sort of okay on PDFs, but I would not
    recommend installing it, as the rest of the suite is
    so buggy it will bring tears to your eyes, especially
    when it buggers up your ODTs.

    Ah, no.


    -T


    I must leave and travel about now, so will read the other replies later
    or tomorrow. I see a lot of replies.



    First thing when you get back, have her show you one of
    these forms. I find customers seldom are able to describe
    what actually is happening.

    Good luck on your trip!

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From knuttle@keith_nuttle@yahoo.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 16:07:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 09/30/2026 1:17 PM, PDF Files wrote:
    On 30/09/2026 14:30, knuttle wrote:
    On 09/30/2026 8:58 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error Efyc
    Earlier I suggested filling in the forms using the Comments-Text
    function of the Adobe Reader, and they printing the form to a PDF
    printer.

    Am I the only one that uses this method to fill out PDF documents?


    I also use the same method to add citation information to documents.


    I created a PDF sample form using LibreOffice. Try filling it in using
    any of the apps you have. By 'filling it', I don't mean add comments. I actually mean enter the details as you would on a paper form, but using
    the keyboard for a digital document. Download the file first in this case.

    <https://mega.nz/file/XhhX3b7D#ATBdHlS--bF9-XabQPy54VfpQTTQMisyTjHxWK36VxQ>

    The whole idea behind PDF files is that they should be 'portable',
    meaning that users should be able to open and fill them in on any
    device, including those running Windows, Linux, macOS, Android and iOS.
    When you save the PDF file file set to show comments the comments become
    a permanent part of the file.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Sep 30 16:08:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    This post, is just for attempting to detect what kind of content
    is in the file in question. Some people are questioning whether
    the PDF is a "plain read-only PDF" which comes out of "Print To PDF"
    efforts. Or whether it is an AcroForm, and is actually designed
    to be filled out in a web browser.

    https://qpdf.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cli.html

    Usage: qpdf [infile] [options] [outfile]

    An example would be:

    qpdf input.pdf --qdf output.pdf

    The output.pdf will then be text (which means no conversion like
    this is perfect, and we get "some text" for which we hope
    enough breadcrumbs are available for our work).

    We can test with this.

    https://themodernfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Sample-Fillable-PDF.pdf

    Name: Sample-Fillable-PDF.pdf
    Size: 67411 bytes (65 KiB)
    SHA256: 40CA01B88F06B586395B51CCBE6745948B1B16BBBA3294127A71069DE853F658

    qpdf Sample-Fillable-PDF.pdf --qdf output.pdf

    Name: output.pdf
    Size: 179722 bytes (175 KiB)
    SHA256: AA1AE59C82670E6707DC58AE457712403E78DC7C9ABFF107440B5B1F5246AA4F

    file output.pdf
    output.pdf: PDF document, version 1.6

    And taking a quick scroll through our fillable form document in a text editor, I see:

    %% Object stream: object 31, index 29; original object ID: 31
    <<
    /AcroForm 3 0 R
    /Metadata 74 0 R
    /Outlines 42 0 R
    /Pages 9 0 R
    /Type /Catalog


    The document is still not rendered as text entirely.
    Not a surprise in PDF land.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Wed Sep 30 20:26:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Chris wrote:

    Print -> edit by hand -> scan -> send

    Maybe not easier nor better, but may send a message to management.

    Sprinkle dust on your scanner beforehand so they can't easily OCR it
    back in, just to emphasise their error :-P

    Misalign the sheet on the scanner. Skewed text is harder to OCR. And
    scan in black-n-white mode at low resolution to make the scanned image
    more grainy.

    I suspect if they don't have PDF software to create editable PDFs, or
    add fields for form data, that they probably don't have an OCR software, either. Could be a small school where budgeting is very tight. Could
    be this school, and its teachers, don't have scanners.

    Even better. Send a photo >)

    But the teacher
    has the .pdf file, so could use a slew of PDF viewers/editors that can annotate PDFs, and she send back the annotated PDF however she got it.




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Thu Oct 1 01:59:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/9/30 18:17:32, PDF Files wrote:
    []
    The whole idea behind PDF files is that they should be 'portable',
    meaning that users should be able to open and fill them in on any
    device, including those running Windows, Linux, macOS, Android and iOS.



    I think originally "open and _read_ them". The fill-in option was a
    later development.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Bother," said the Borg, "we assimilated a Pooh."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11 on Thu Oct 1 06:57:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2026/9/30 18:17:32, PDF Files wrote:
    []
    The whole idea behind PDF files is that they should be 'portable',
    meaning that users should be able to open and fill them in on any
    device, including those running Windows, Linux, macOS, Android and iOS.



    I think originally "open and _read_ them".

    And maintain formatting or style. It was very common that word would
    substitute fonts or reformat page layouts in different computers. Your beautifully crafted document would be ruined.

    A pdf made sure it and stayed the same regardless of who was
    readin/printing the doc.

    The fill-in option was a
    later development.

    Correct.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:43:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-29 21:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/29 20:24:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Sounds like finding a different employer would be good, but ...

    Not for this reason...

    It is a civil servant employment, very secure if not that well paid.
    People don't drop the advantages easily, considering how hard is to land
    such a job.


    What are these files - are they all different, or are they a table of
    some sort, which she could generate and send back - if the format is not exactly as they sent, then they can either buy her some software or lump
    it!

    I don't know yet for certain. I need samples, obviously. I'm in a trip,
    she said that she'll show when I come back.

    As for creating tables, any word processor _should_ be able to - I
    use Word 2003 - you don't need a spreadsheet unless you're actually
    going to do sums (or some other operations) on the contents; but most
    people see/think "table" and assume they have to use a spreadsheet, so
    that is an option (just not IMO the best one).

    Presumably "Management" are not _creating_ these files in PDF, but
    converting them for (apparent!) ease of reading; can she find out what
    they _are_ created in, and maybe get them in that, assuming she has
    something that can open them?


    Right. I also need to see if they are actually PDF forms.

    I take it the "names and data" relate to her job as a teacher?

    Yes.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:44:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 14:20, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/30 11:21:7, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    I must leave and travel about now, so will read the other replies later
    or tomorrow. I see a lot of replies.


    Can we suspend discussion until Carlos gets back, as until we know
    rather more about these documents (what are they, forms, tables, etc;
    what is the data that has to be added; _are_ these PDFs of the type that
    has fillable fields; etc.) - which only he can tell us - further
    discussion only adds heat, not light?

    I get ideas to try out :-)
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:46:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 21:07, T wrote:
    On 9/30/26 3:21 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-09-29 21:49, T wrote:
    On 9/29/26 12:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to
    edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and
    Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't
    have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try
    myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor
    laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and
    copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text
    doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Hi Carlos,

    You've been busy!

    PDFs are not really meant to be edited like a word processor.
    But you can, a little.

    I know. And she knows, yet she insists, because she actually has to
    fill those documents.


    I use Master PDF Editor. I even create math fields with it.
    File --> Export --> As Word
    Then LO can pick it up. It can also export as text and CSV.
    But it does not work on pictures. You can do OCR (optical
    character recognition) on them to get text. But you may
    have to retype everything.

    It is an idea. I read that it is freemium, and the test version adds a
    watermark.

    It is not too expensive.-a-a I pay for it every year.

    So it is a subscription?




    There is also PDF Studio, which also has the option. Master
    PDF Editor has RPM and Deb support and wonderful technical
    support. They fix bugs I find all the time.

    Non gratis, I read.

    She can pay for something, but I hate she has to pay for something her
    employer should provide.

    Huh?-a That sound fishy.-a Did they even provide her with a computer?
    They must think she does not need any software for those forms.
    You need to take a look at them.

    I need to see them, absolutely.

    They have a computer in the teachers room, with LO, I found out.



    Yes, certainly her bosses must be creating the original documents in
    something else, either MS Office or LO. I will find out when I get
    hold of one such document. But they are not sending the teachers the
    original documents, I can't understand why. How do they expect their
    staff to fill them? I don't get the rationale.

    Maybe the PDFs are actually forms? That would make sense.


    OnlyOffice works sort of okay on PDFs, but I would not
    recommend installing it, as the rest of the suite is
    so buggy it will bring tears to your eyes, especially
    when it buggers up your ODTs.

    Ah, no.


    -T


    I must leave and travel about now, so will read the other replies
    later or tomorrow. I see a lot of replies.



    First thing when you get back, have her show you one of
    these forms.-a I find customers seldom are able to describe
    what actually is happening.

    Absolutely


    Good luck on your trip!


    You see that I can also see posts during my trip :-)
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:48:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 01:51, T wrote:
    On 9/29/26 3:26 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
    On 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to
    edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and
    Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have
    word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself.
    Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops.
    Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy
    to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't
    flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    I'm trying to find a way without paying for software.


    1+-a LO works too.

    With Master PDF Editor, you can modify the text, but it won't
    re-space the line. If it's a misspelling, it's great. If
    you subtract text, you get a big empty space. You can
    guess what happens if you add text. Yes, they run together.

    Ah, so that's the same that happens with LO. That's good to know.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:50:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 05:56, T wrote:
    On 9/29/26 5:27 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    Convert back to Word, make the changes, and then back to PDF

    "I don't have word (nor does she"

    LibreOffice will read a M$O document.-a And LO
    has a wonderful PDF export too.

    Not seeing what the problem is here.


    The importing is not direct to LO writer, it needs LO Draw first. And
    the paragraphs do not flow.

    Exporting is fine, I demonstrated that to her.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 12:55:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 02:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/9/30 1:15:6, ....winston wrote:
    On 09/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can >>> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does >>> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to >>> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Were the PDF files created with edit-able fields?

    My time editing PDF files is limited to receiving a file with edit-able
    fields or using Adobe subscription products.
    - I have seen a few recommendations from SMB folks not having large
    budgets using Acrobat Online and also Sejda PDF Editor(online and
    desktop app)..

    Carlos - are you still reading this thread?

    Yes, I just had to stop for a day or two because I had to travel.


    We really need to know a bit more about these files, and the names and
    data that has to be inserted into them. Are they a table or similar, or something else entirely? Are they all different, or similar?

    You are absolutely right! I asked her to send me a sample, but she said
    that later, when I come back from my trip.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 13:01:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 05:45, VanguardLH wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can
    directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor
    she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does
    not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to
    a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

    They expect her to edit PDF files, but won't give her the tools to do
    so. Whomever is giving her the PDF files hasn't a clue about creating editable PDFs; i.e., PDFs with forms with fields that can be filled in,
    and can even use qualifiers or code to determine the correct type of
    data to enter in the fields. From their ignorance in creating fixed
    PDFs, or without forms, I suspect they are creating them using an
    emulated printer, like Print presenting a "PDF" printer to where the
    printout gets directed. They don't know how to do PDFs, and yet expect
    her to know more than them yet not provide the tools to do so.

    In a tit-for-tat retaliation, have her print the PDFs to paper, have her
    edit the paper copy, and send them the paper copy. Let those idiots
    figure out how to transcribe (scan) her paper copy to a PDF copy.

    :-D


    Knowing the higher-ups are likely not just idiots, but also control
    freaks demanding whatever they want, have her use a PDF viewer that can
    also annotate the PDF. The annotations are saved in the PDF as a
    separate layer. I use PDF-Xchange Editor (free version) to both view
    and annotate in different fonts, size, and colors, but annotations are a clumsy way to update a PDF file. The annotations get flattened when the
    PDF is saved, so they become permanent.

    In PDFs, the fields in a form can be scripted to qualify what content
    can be entered in the fields. If scripting is disabled in a PDF viewer/editor (as I do in mine), the fields will be presented, but the
    user cannot enter data into those fields. At that point, annotation can place content atop the input fields, but it really hasn't been added as
    form data. It is another layer overlapping the fields, and gets
    flattened on saving. Once saved, those annotations can no longer be separately selected, like to move them around, change font or color.
    The annotations become fixed just like all the other text in the PDF.


    I hope they are not PDF with javascript!

    There are other PDF viewers/editors that can do annotations. "Editor"
    for free PDF tools means adding annotations. They don't permit the
    existing content. So, her higher-ups doling out PDFs should either
    provide areas in them where data can be added, like placing an
    annotation within a text box, or she'll have to add annotations in the margins, white space, or atop existing text or images.

    Her higher-ups will have to deal with her annotations as fixed content
    in the returned PDFs.

    Her employers do not provide her with Word. So just how is she to
    converse with anyone there without a document editor shared amongst the employees? They send document in text-only format to use Notepad?

    They provided one common computer with LO.


    There are online resources that claim to let you edit PDFs; for example:

    https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/pdf-editor.html https://www.canva.com/pdf-editor/
    and others (https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=edit+pdf).

    noted.

    They have Google for groups provided. That thing has tools, too. There
    may be a PDF editor there.


    I have not used any of those. I just add annotations. Online editors
    are unwise if the content of the PDF is sensitive (banking, financial
    company docs, personal bank data, etc). How was the PDF delivered to
    her? Via e-mail? If not encrypted then the higher-ups are not
    interested in security, so using online editors should be okay.

    Via Google (for groups) Drive, or some times email (in the google for
    groups email).
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 13:05:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 06:23, Paul wrote:
    On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    Apparently Firefox browser can fill a form.pdf .

    It does.

    It even has some script support.


    Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, "in theory", can fill out a
    form, but it is a bloated whale of a thing with brokenness
    at the moment. They're too busy breaking it, to be interested
    in their users. I no longer have that installed on C: here,
    I gave up on it. Too much evil.


    Right. My feelings too.

    Via version numbers, a recently created form.pdf would
    not be able to be opened by things like Acrobat Reader 9,
    so you cannot rely on older versions of a thing, to get
    around the Adobe Reader DC mess.

    I can't even find a program to "classify" the files. The
    Linux file command, treats them all the same, by just
    sniffing the PDF string at the top of the file, rather than
    looking inside the file. This means I can't scan my disk for
    samples of form.pdf type files.


    maybe pdfinfo?

    cer@Laicolasse:~> pdfinfo sample.pdf
    Creator: Mozilla Firefox 140.13.0
    Producer: cairo 1.18.0 (https://cairographics.org)
    CreationDate: Fri Aug 28 18:02:33 2026 CEST
    Custom Metadata: no
    Metadata Stream: no
    Tagged: no
    UserProperties: no
    Suspects: no
    Form: none
    JavaScript: no
    Pages: 9
    Encrypted: no
    Page size: 596 x 842 pts (A4)
    Page rot: 0
    File size: 4790877 bytes
    Optimized: no
    PDF version: 1.7
    cer@Laicolasse:~>


    Some documents need the Javascript interpreter in Acrobat Reader
    to be turned on. This applies to things like government forms
    that have a "sanitizing" feature for actively checking what
    you enter in a box, and complaining about the format you enter.

    Yes, i have seen those. I hope they are not using those.


    And it goes downhill from there. Lots of tools only handle
    plain PDFs and not the other types.

    Paul
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 13:11:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 16:50, ....winston wrote:
    On 09/30/2026 5:48 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:

    The key thing to know is whether these PDF files are correctly created
    as "forms".-a If they are, then you should be able to fill them in (not
    the same as 'edit') in the free Acrobat reader, or in a browser (Edge
    works well for PDFs).-a As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, simply
    using a "print to PDF" pseudo-printer won't generate a form which can be
    filled in in this way.
    Agreed, the Pdf files sent are not editable documents, thus requiring
    the recipient to jump through more than a few hoops to manage editing.


    You mention not having access to Word: if you create a Microsoft Account
    that gets you an email address, 5GB of free OneDrive storage, and access
    via a browser to Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other applications.
    Yes, that is an option..but if this is the same person that Carlos previously posted(setting up a device for her, where she previously
    obtained office from 'a friend's husband who supplied her an edition provided to him from his employer' and that option for Office was/is no longer available), Carlos also stated that same person getting or using
    an Microsoft Account was a 'blocker'.

    Same person, yes. If a M$A is an absolute need, we will create one.


    Maybe Carlos, will be able to clarify
    -a- same person
    -a- willing or not willing to obtain and use a Microsoft account
    -a- willing or not willing to obtain a Office version(which requires an
    MSA for activation and use)

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 13:12:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 12:14, Andy Burns wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." wrote:

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit
    and fill with names and data and send back.

    Actually editing the document, as opposed to filling-in embedded forms?

    PDF was not designed for the former ...

    Absolutely right. Although LO can embed the original source document in
    the PDF.

    I'll find out in about a week whether they are actually forms.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 13:13:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-09-30 22:08, Paul wrote:
    On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    This post, is just for attempting to detect what kind of content
    is in the file in question. Some people are questioning whether
    the PDF is a "plain read-only PDF" which comes out of "Print To PDF"
    efforts. Or whether it is an AcroForm, and is actually designed
    to be filled out in a web browser.

    I'll find out in about a week.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Oct 1 09:52:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Thu, 10/1/2026 7:13 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-09-30 22:08, Paul wrote:
    On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

    Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

    The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

    I wonder if there is a better or easier method.


    This post, is just for attempting to detect what kind of content
    is in the file in question. Some people are questioning whether
    the PDF is a "plain read-only PDF" which comes out of "Print To PDF"
    efforts. Or whether it is an AcroForm, and is actually designed
    to be filled out in a web browser.

    I'll find out in about a week.

    Your pdfinfo post, seems to show it is a plain PDF.
    And, it seems rather large. At that size it could
    have images in it.

    The emitter was Firefox, as if it was a Print To PDF ?
    Or a SaveAs PDF ? Like they were viewing the source
    on some web server before printing off the pages. It looks
    like some crazy scheme to save money.

    I would review with the teacher, exactly how that PDF ended up
    in hand. As that pdfinfo is suspicious, of the info being
    available as a web page, as well as being a PDF. If it was
    a web page, you could edit it with an HTML editor (Seamonkey
    composer being the only thing I have here).

    So far, it's more of a project for a detective than a technician :-)

    In the PDF world, I think this is normal, as there are too many
    variants, too many workflows, to predict exactly what is going
    to be "easy to do" for a recipient. If the setup was as indicated,
    a survey or a form to fill out, it should have been an Acroform
    or something similar.

    Paul


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2