https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... competition benefits us all.
On 7/29/2026 5:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it should be.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... competition benefits us all.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05rC>PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed? Dell has already publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can Windows survive?
On 7/29/2026 5:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it should be.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05rC>PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed? Dell has already publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can Windows survive?
I am woefully behind on Windows... but I doubt it has improved much over the years. Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
On Jul 29, 2026 at 6:05:42rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/29/2026 5:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art, >>>> so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not >>>> Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... >>> competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it
should be.
Just like when you bought your cheap Chinese junk Windows PC, you have no control over YOUR experience. Its all as Big MS dictates it should be.
Right? So what's your point?
Windows is the same "experience", regardless of the hardware. Plug in an LG monitor and watch it start downloading and installing all kinds of shit with no warning to you.
That's Windows 11. Home or Pro, makes no difference.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art, >>>> so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not >>>> Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... >>> competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it
should be.
I am woefully behind on Windows... but I doubt it has improved much over the years. Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
On 7/29/2026 5:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it should be.
On 7/29/26 6:05 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 7/29/2026 5:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:Looked at the 15" and I could only get a 512G SSD, no choice in mem or ssd.-a What?-a That' shitty and for $1400 too.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art, >>>> so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home, BTW.-a Not >>>> Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But
good...
competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now.-a Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it
should be.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05rC>PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed? Dell has already publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can Windows survive?
Joel W. Crump wrote:Yes, that is Apple behaviour
Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple.
Looked at the 15" and I could only get a 512G SSD, no choice in mem or ssd.-a What?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
On Thu, 7/30/2026 1:03 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I am woefully behind on Windows... but I doubt it has improved much over the >> years. Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
You can install it and run it. The license grace period is infinity.
When it asks for a key, you can click "I don't have a key" and
continue on.
It works best on relatively recent hardware,
but with the
rufus.ie USB stick preparation software, some install policies
can be changed. For example, I have W11 installed on a 4th gen CPU
(close to a Haswell). It does not run "well" on there, but it runs.
W10 runs better there. The 4th gen system does not have a TPM.
Using the tick boxes in Rufus, disables the TPM check (for W11).
https://rufus.ie/en/
https://rufus.ie/pics/screenshot4_en.png <=== tick boxes that show>
when W10/W11 ISO is present
W10/W11 have both Control Panels and Settings. The Control Panels
can be located by running "control.exe" . The Settings is the
Settings wheel in the Start Menu.
To run an individual control panel, like the system control panel (manually), try "sysdm.cpl".
For a brief visit to the (installed) OS, you don't need to set anything.
It automatically sets up networking on the wired interface, with
DHCP. Driver installs are automatic, and normally not a problem.
To add more detail, would be boring. It's not like WinXP,
where you'd collect drivers on a CD for a rainy day.
The video card driver, is a large download, and you might need to wait until your second reboot or so, before the driver is finished downloading. These are the perils of "jumbo" installers. The NVidia driver, there are two versions,
and the newer version is "containerized". It does not sit exactly parallel with the kernel. And you can have driver issues for video, which do not affect the display on the screen, but fill the log with garbage. There are
a few differences in how Windows works, and it's more three dimensional
(with respect to containers and virtualization).
Before the video card driver downloads, the screen resolution is 1024x768
and this is via the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter. Like a VESA driver,
this is the "emergency" driver for video. Once the video card real driver arrives, the native resolution of the monitor will be used at that point.
You can change the DPI setting (there are a number of choices) to make hard-to-see things, a bit bigger. I run a 4K 27" monitor at 200% for example, as text would be microscopic otherwise. With the exception of that monitor, other monitors in the room need no adjustment for a basic run. I can still read the monitor at 100% setting, but it isn't pleasant. I've run Linux
on the box at 100% for an entire session, and I "survived" OK.
Paul--
On 7/30/2026 1:03 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art, >>>>> so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not >>>>> Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home. >>>>> People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for >>>>> MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... >>>> competition benefits us all.
You have a point, they really promote ARM now. Which is a good thing,
it's just kind of interesting how the few who will buy this junk have
utterly no control over their experience, it's all as Big MS dictates it >>> should be.
I am woefully behind on Windows... but I doubt it has improved much over the >> years. Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
Yes, but they both work for different things, it's not a big problem.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
Yes they still have both, and are lethargically moving from the former
to the latter, reducing functionality as they do ...
On Jul 30, 2026 at 4:38:51rC>AM MST, "Andy Burns" wrote <nd0rdfF5tdgU1@mid.individual.net>:
Brock McNuggets wrote:
Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
Yes they still have both, and are lethargically moving from the former
to the latter, reducing functionality as they do ...
It is not a huge issue, to be clear, but just silly it has not be fixed in years.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05?PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38?AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing.
How long before Dell or Asus or
HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed?
Dell has already
publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can Windows survive?
Nick Charles <none@none.none> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05?PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... >>> competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately >> wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is not "tanking" (yes, I know about the recent reports with
highly suspect OS percentages, like a very high number of 'other'). Yes,
Mac is gaining market share, good on them, but Windows in not "tanking"
in numbers.
Anyway, don't conflate Windows, Microsoft and Surface. There was a
recent article about people who enjoy Windows for what it offers for
*them*, but who at the same time don't like Microsoft very much (I'm
also in that camp). And about Surface, not in a million years.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing.
Windows is not a Dead End by any stretch of the imagnination. And yes, Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
On 7/30/2026 3:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
Linux is growing, and even Mac is doing things, but Windows will always be the default platform.
On Thu, 7/30/2026 3:52 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 7/30/2026 3:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
Linux is growing, and even Mac is doing things, but Windows will always be the default platform.
Linux has no self-promotion capability to speak of.
Someone in the newsgroups here, is "helping people install Linux",
like spending an hour per visitor in a queue, to make a Linux user
of them. How is this practical as a promotional method ?
An example of a promotion method was WUBI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_%28software%29
"Wubi ("Windows-based Ubuntu Installer") is a free software Ubuntu installer,
that was the official Windows-based software, from 2008 until 2013,[2] to
install Ubuntu from within Windows, to a single file within an existing
Windows partition."
"creates a stand-alone installation within a loopmounted device,
also known as a disk image"
The thing about the method, is it does not take risks on dropping
a machine to a non-functional level at any point, increasing the odds
the new user is not pissed off by a visible failure (not being able
to boot perhaps).
*******
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/wubi-advice
"The warning appears following reports of stability and potential
data-loss encountered by WUBI users on Windows 8.
CanonicalrCOs Robert Bruce Park recently said of WUBI:
rCL[It] needs to die a quick and painless death so we can get on
with providing positive experiences to new users of Ubuntu.rCY
"
And there is some cluelessness in action.
Providing ISOs to people, 6GB in size and needing dual layer media
from your cake box supply, yes, that's the positive experience we
were looking for, for sure. Sure, you can point them at Rufus,
but previous attempts to lead people to USB conversion routines,
led to any number of problems with successful actuation (some individuals don't know what their popup boot key is, and when the menu appears...
they freak out -- even I freak out at some of the curve balls the
popup boot throws here, like duplicate Windows Boot Manager entries
which may disappear after an additional POST run or every Linux OS
ending up placing an entry into popup boot).
But Wubi remains, a potential promotional vehicle. Maybe no lineup
and one hour spent per customer.
And that is how Linux does things. Pulls out gun. Shoots own foot.
Puts gun away.
Asking ordinary people to nuke and pave a PC, then spend $200
at the local computer store bailing them out, that will attract
desktop users like flies.
Some individuals don't even have 20 USB sticks laying on tables
in their computer room. Imagine that :-) Or they have a 1GB stick
from the year 2003. There are individuals with surprisingly little
in the way of essential accessories for the computer room. They've
never heard of a Cruiser Glide (examples of USB sticks with not
much in the way of speed to offer). The local sources of USB sticks,
when I've looked at the inventory, it wasn't looking good. But
that's happened before. Like the Best Buy having some sticks laying
in the bottom of a cabinet, not even properly faced up on display,
and the customer was expected to paw through these and pick a
winner. So that's your first task, as a potential OS-converter.
You have no backup drive. You don't know what a HDD looks like.
You've never had the side off your desktop, or opened a plate
on the laptop bottom. You don't have any USB sticks. You go to Best Buy
and the sticks are laying in a pile in the bottom of a cabinet.
Yes, yes, smells like success is about to happen.
And in one of the other groups, there is someone holding a HDD
in his hand, that constantly throws CRC errors. "Can I put Linux
on this ?" Well, why not go over to that helper-guys operation
and stand in line there, and get an hour long consult.
And we have to do this, times four hundred million machines.
I do have an ancient PC sitting around, mostly unused. But it is 10+
years old.
And that is how Linux does things.
On Thu, 7/30/2026 3:52 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 7/30/2026 3:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
Linux is growing, and even Mac is doing things, but Windows will always be the default platform.
Linux has no self-promotion capability to speak of.
The local sources of USB sticks,
when I've looked at the inventory, it wasn't looking good. But
that's happened before. Like the Best Buy having some sticks laying
in the bottom of a cabinet, not even properly faced up on display,
and the customer was expected to paw through these and pick a
winner.
At Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:16:36 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 7/30/2026 3:52 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 7/30/2026 3:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
Linux is growing, and even Mac is doing things, but Windows will always be the default platform.
Linux has no self-promotion capability to speak of.
What Linux needs is some kind of "Geek Squad" service provider
for people needing guru help.
Just like MS Windows users have "Geek Squad". You have (at least)
two levels of user: "user" and "guru". I know a grandmother who
uses Linux, and uses Pan to post to Usenet. She's a "user". If she
needs help, she gets ahold of her daughter, a "guru".
Most people are like that. For MS Windows, if they don't have
a family member or friend to consult, there's always the local
computer shop, "Geek Squad", etc.
There are these "Linux Cafes" popping up everywhere.
A lot of the old LUGs are still around. Very grass roots.
Maybe there's a market opportunity for a "Linux Squad"..."I see
a great need"...
On 7/30/2026 6:22 PM, vallor wrote:
At Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:16:36 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 7/30/2026 3:52 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 7/30/2026 3:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Linux is slowly growing, about time and good on 'them'.
Linux is growing, and even Mac is doing things, but Windows will always be the default platform.
Linux has no self-promotion capability to speak of.
What Linux needs is some kind of "Geek Squad" service provider
for people needing guru help.
Just like MS Windows users have "Geek Squad". You have (at least)
two levels of user: "user" and "guru". I know a grandmother who
uses Linux, and uses Pan to post to Usenet. She's a "user". If she
needs help, she gets ahold of her daughter, a "guru".
Most people are like that. For MS Windows, if they don't have
a family member or friend to consult, there's always the local
computer shop, "Geek Squad", etc.
There are these "Linux Cafes" popping up everywhere.
A lot of the old LUGs are still around. Very grass roots.
Maybe there's a market opportunity for a "Linux Squad"..."I see
a great need"...
Correct, Linux can be utilized by non-tech people who have a helper.
Try^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced : Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus
on it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to
want to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus
on it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to
want to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
On 7/30/2026 6:02 PM, chrisv wrote:
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus
on it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to
want to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
I had a USB media that Winblows' provided crapware couldn't even reformat, but Rufus worked.-a Microsoft laughs at 50% of their own customers.
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05rC>PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not
Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good...
competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed? Dell has already publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can Windows survive?
On Wed, 7/29/2026 11:01 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 5:57:05rC>PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 29, 2026 at 11:15:38rC>AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<114dg0b$133f6$1@dont-email.me>:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art, >>>> so cool. Expensive, admittedly, heh. Comes with Win11 Home, BTW. Not >>>> Pro. I don't get that. A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
Both the site and the product seem heavily inspired by Apple. But good... >>> competition benefits us all.
Because Windows is tanking and Mac is growing. Thus Microsoft desperately >> wants the few remaining Surface PCs to "look like" Apple. But the problem with
Windows PCs is - are you sitting down? - WINDOWS. Not the PC hardware.
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or
HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed? Dell has already
publicly stated that the whole "Copilot PC" thing is a failure. No one is
interested.
Meanwhile, Google is going to be selling Android PCs. How much longer can >> Windows survive?
I'm surprised that anyone thinks in terms of "OS wars" in the year 2026.
This is the trend you have to watch.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ram/dram-chip-supply-to-module-makers
-could-drop-by-more-than-70-percent-year-on-year-in-2027-says-apacer
-ceo-demand-for-hbm-and-server-ram-continues-to-devour-manufacturing-capacity
The long term prognosis, is there just won't be a lot of up-to-date
desktops and laptops any more. And the OSes they run, will be irrelevant.
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 14:18:13 -0400, Paul wrote:
Try^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced : Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size
Gee, how many different levels of rCLAdvancedrCY can you have ... ?
On 30 Jul 2026 16:49:37 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I do have an ancient PC sitting around, mostly unused. But it is 10+
years old.
I have one like that as my backup machine, running the same Debian
Unstable version as my main machine.
Just for fun, I tried running a program I wrote using Pywebview <https://pywebview.flowrl.com/> to try out some real-time visual
transition effects ... and it can maintain a smooth 60fps, no problem.
On Thu, 7/30/2026 12:51 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Jul 30, 2026 at 4:38:51rC>AM MST, "Andy Burns" wrote
<nd0rdfF5tdgU1@mid.individual.net>:
Brock McNuggets wrote:
Do they still have the idiotic Control Panel and Settings?
Yes they still have both, and are lethargically moving from the former
to the latter, reducing functionality as they do ...
It is not a huge issue, to be clear, but just silly it has not be fixed in >> years.
Whoever writes a summary, about how the Settings were done,
that person is going to need giant balls, to not get fired for it :-)
Try
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced : Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size
Wheel <=== control panel ==>
as an example of "how deep we're willing to go" on <cough> hierarchy.
That's one reason why I explain about executing "sysdm.cpl" ,
which will look familiar when you try the above.
Paul
Windows is installed at the factory.
(verbose idiocy snipped)
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus
on it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to
want to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
On Thu, 7/30/2026 6:02 PM, chrisv wrote:
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus
on it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to
want to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
Windows is installed at the factory.
The thing is, nothing is left to chance.
The rails are greased.
Linux does not have that advantage, no automated
media preparation machines putting images on storage.
The factory has the automation to do this stuff
for their Windows products.
The Linux ecosystem is unlikely to have the funding
or resources, to do this.
It's not going to happen by spending one hour per
four hundred million candidate users.
If someone tells me statcounter reports 29% Linux users,
I need to see "cause and effect". How did magically,
29% users inherit enough brain power and certainty,
to get Linux running ? Whereas if someone told me a story
about a "new WUBI" and a campaign to inform people,
if you then told me statcounter said 29%, I might believe you.
But that line doesn't go up, just because there is a
gentle breeze in the room. Something has to do the
heavy lifting.
<snip>
On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 14:18:13 -0400, Paul wrote:
Try^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced :
Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom
Size
^^^^^^^^
Gee, how many different levels of rCLAdvancedrCY can you have ... ?
Paul wrote:
And that is how Linux does things.
And how does Windows do things, if the user needs to install it?
If someone can't obtain a USB stick and use the brain-dead-easy Rufus on
it and figure-out how to boot from it, then yeah, they are going to want
to buy a PC with the OS already installed.
On Jul 30, 2026 at 11:18:13rC>AM MST, "Paul" wrote
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced :
Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size
Wheel <=== control panel ==>
Not currently running Windows... but I am aware of the absurdity of the hierarchy. To be fair, macOS Settings are hardly intuitive (nor settings on most Linux systems). Just a LOT of settings on any modern system.
On Fri, 7/31/2026 4:48 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Jul 30, 2026 at 11:18:13rC>AM MST, "Paul" wrote
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced :
Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size
Wheel <=== control panel ==>
Not currently running Windows... but I am aware of the absurdity of the
hierarchy. To be fair, macOS Settings are hardly intuitive (nor settings on >> most Linux systems). Just a LOT of settings on any modern system.
They will fix that eventually, but we don't know when.
Some day it could be like this
Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings
with a lengthy Fluent list on the last page. But because
they do committee-design for these, it could be a long wait.
Paul
On 07/31/2026 3:50 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 7/31/2026 4:48 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Jul 30, 2026 at 11:18:13rC>AM MST, "Paul" wrote
-a-a Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings : Advanced : >>>> Performance Settings : Advanced : Virtual Memory : Change : Custom Size >>>> -a-a-a Wheel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a <=== control panel ==>
Not currently running Windows... but I am aware of the absurdity of the
hierarchy. To be fair, macOS Settings are hardly intuitive (nor settings on >>> most Linux systems). Just a LOT of settings on any modern system.
They will fix that eventually, but we don't know when.
Some day it could be like this
-a-a-a Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings
with a lengthy Fluent list on the last page. But because
they do committee-design for these, it could be a long wait.
-a-a-a Paul
Hypotheizing?
'Committee-design for these' with respect to prioritization for re-design of existing UI hasn't been the 'mo' or norm for some time.
Ever since the advent of the various feedback loops(Feedback app, Twitter, FB, Reddit, Insider) and heavy weighing toward Enterprise contracted support(not Consumer) with the incoming data filtering for ranking governs the direction for change(Acknowledgement, Fix, Ignore, Won't Fix)...and all well in advance of 'committee' review and directed approval.
Without an army/village of support...that long wait may be the next o/s or never.
On Sat, 8/1/2026 2:20 AM, ....winston wrote:Yes, inevitable.
On 07/31/2026 3:50 PM, Paul wrote:
They will fix that eventually, but we don't know when.
Some day it could be like this
-a-a-a Settings : System : About : Advanced System Settings
with a lengthy Fluent list on the last page. But because
they do committee-design for these, it could be a long wait.
-a-a-a Paul
Hypothesizing?
'Committee-design for these' with respect to prioritization for re-design of existing UI hasn't been the 'mo' or norm for some time.
Ever since the advent of the various feedback loops(Feedback app, Twitter, FB, Reddit, Insider) and heavy weighing toward Enterprise contracted support(not Consumer) with the incoming data filtering for ranking governs the direction for change(Acknowledgement, Fix, Ignore, Won't Fix)...and all well in advance of 'committee' review and directed approval.
Without an army/village of support(feedback, requesting change)...that long wait may be the next o/s or never.
Well, yes and no. A blog prepared by an ex-employee described
the departmental dynamic, and the reason blogs like this are
written, is it is inevitable that everyone in a large group
does not feel equally valued.
It really shouldn't take this long to do a complete Settings application.
A risk when a software project takes this long, is a lack of continuity.
Paul--
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed?
On 2026-07-30 05:01, Nick Charles wrote:
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or
HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed?
Lenovo does, since long time. Maybe your local shop doesn't sell them, but you can buy direct from Lenovo, even customize the laptop.
On Sun, 8/2/2026 8:43 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-07-30 05:01, Nick Charles wrote:
Windows is a Dead End. Linux is also growing. How long before Dell or Asus or
HP or Lenovo start selling PCs with Linux installed?
Lenovo does, since long time. Maybe your local shop doesn't sell them, but you can buy direct from Lenovo, even customize the laptop.
What appears at retail, is all a function of under-the-table dealings.
There is a reason at the grocery store, the Tidy detergent display
is 40 feet long and 8 feet high. It's because the manufacturer of
the stuff, "buys up" the shelf space so competitors cannot advertise
their wares. It's not because they're moving 320 units per day, every day. The Tide shelving, hardly ever has a gap from a removed unit.
Our bread shelves are under similar pressure. The bread suppliers
send their own representatives to stock the bread shelves, with
the opportunity to give a competitors loaf "a poke".
I'm not aware of what controls the "Table Of Shame" at the
computer store, but it isn't Mother Theresa.
Some "Invisible Force" keeps Linux off the "Table Of Shame" :-)
Paul
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-art,
so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home, BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false but yet
workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has Home.
People with money who don't really know computers make a cash cow for
MS, heh.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-
art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home,
BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false
but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it has
Home. People with money who don't really know computers make a cash
cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
On 8/5/2026 3:15 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-
art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home,
BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false
but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it
has Home. People with money who don't really know computers make a
cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because it's OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11 license purchased
from Microsoft (just use "change product key" in settings) is perfect
for me.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the-
art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home,
BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false >>>> but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it
has Home. People with money who don't really know computers make a
cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be
interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because it's
OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11 license
purchased from Microsoft (just use "change product key" in settings)
is perfect for me.
You not being interested in better value is what make you a zealot, not
a rational person.
On 8/5/2026 3:26 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of-the- >>>>> art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 Home, >>>>> BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has a false >>>>> but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is legit so it
has Home. People with money who don't really know computers make a
cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be
interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because it's
OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11 license
purchased from Microsoft (just use "change product key" in settings)
is perfect for me.
You not being interested in better value is what make you a zealot,
not a rational person.
Uh, dude, read what I wrote, I did get a better value, by not getting *either* of the Neo or the Surface corporate products.-a I paid an inexpensive price for the hardware, and $200 for Win11 Pro retail.-a That
is the best value *possible*.
On 8/5/2026 3:59 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of- >>>>>>> the- art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with Win11 >>>>>>> Home, BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from China has >>>>>>> a false but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this thing is
legit so it has Home. People with money who don't really know
computers make a cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be
interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because it's >>>>> OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11 license
purchased from Microsoft (just use "change product key" in
settings) is perfect for me.
You not being interested in better value is what make you a zealot,
not a rational person.
Uh, dude, read what I wrote, I did get a better value, by not getting
*either* of the Neo or the Surface corporate products.-a I paid an
inexpensive price for the hardware, and $200 for Win11 Pro retail.
That is the best value *possible*.
And how many "upgrades" did you have to make to make your computer right?
Lay it all out
This time, I realized that what I had before was overkill.-a I literally
had a self-assembled system with 32 GB RAM, dual NVMe drives, six cores
12 threads on the CPU, running *Linux*, and previously Win11.-a This inexpensive mini PC from China runs Win11 in 16 GB RAM *shared with* the GPU, so it's really more like 12 GB available, has 512 GB storage, but
it "just works", with four cores eight threads.-a You simply don't need
more than what I have for basic Winblows usage.-a I don't game.-a I'm just enjoying the benefit of how tech has advanced to where something like
this can be a workable system.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop >>>>>>>>
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of- >>>>>>>> the- art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with >>>>>>>> Win11 Home, BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from >>>>>>>> China has a false but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this >>>>>>>> thing is legit so it has Home. People with money who don't
really know computers make a cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be
interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because
it's OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11
license purchased from Microsoft (just use "change product key" in >>>>>> settings) is perfect for me.
You not being interested in better value is what make you a zealot, >>>>> not a rational person.
Uh, dude, read what I wrote, I did get a better value, by not
getting *either* of the Neo or the Surface corporate products.-a I
paid an inexpensive price for the hardware, and $200 for Win11 Pro
retail. That is the best value *possible*.
And how many "upgrades" did you have to make to make your computer
right?
Lay it all out
This time, I realized that what I had before was overkill.-a I
literally had a self-assembled system with 32 GB RAM, dual NVMe
drives, six cores 12 threads on the CPU, running *Linux*, and
previously Win11.-a This inexpensive mini PC from China runs Win11 in
16 GB RAM *shared with* the GPU, so it's really more like 12 GB
available, has 512 GB storage, but it "just works", with four cores
eight threads.-a You simply don't need more than what I have for basic
Winblows usage.-a I don't game.-a I'm just enjoying the benefit of how
tech has advanced to where something like this can be a workable system.
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
, bought back when the prices
were still reasonable. The Chinese companies were building
these using DDR4, then later the plan was a transition
to DDR5 (as the industry was all set to shut off DDR4 production,
and yet they're still making DDR4 today). But at that point,
the RAMpocalypse came along and threw all sorts of
careful plans out the window.
The hardware at the time, the material cost was able to undercut the average laptop design. Which is why it attracted customer interest.
Most laptop designs involve a "tax" for being a laptop processor,
where the same silicon magically attracts a much larger price,
when in fact, it's just a VID/FID adjustment . Silicon capabilities
covers a 7x range of performance. Pour power into it, it runs at
5GHz. Don't pour power into it, it makes a processor
for Joel. The N150 is 6 watts or so.
Total Cores 4
Total Threads 4
Max Turbo Frequency 3.6 GHz
Cache 6 MB
Processor Base Power 6 W
It doesn't even list a steady state frequency
(when railed on four cores), because that depends
on how well it is cooled. The iGPU thermal load,
subtracts from the CPU load possible. The max turbo
frequency assumes there is enough power to reach
3.6GHz without the device becoming too hot and
entering throttle state.
As a mini-PC, it does not come with a display, and
it uses the display you already own.
I tried searching for N150 laptops at the time, and
practically nobody was doing that. The manufacturers
were buying the slightly better, but much more
expensive boutique CPUs instead, with a price to
match.
The Intel CFO takes a dim view of some of this.
I think he put a stop to the making of the $17 processor,
as that endangered the sales of more lucrative materials.
To find them making the N150, my puzzled look. They
had dumped an 8085 business (embedded processors)
at maybe $5 a pop, for a similar reason.
Usually someone in the C-suite identifies
the "right" product mix, to pay the bills and keep
the lights on. And right now, that happens to not
include $1000 processors, as the other component
costs are too high to sustain the business. As everyone
in that business are discovering.
Even the Applians will eventually discover they cannot
make the Neo for the introductory price. A Toms article
within the last week or two, commented available
RAM output (DDR4/DDR5) would drop by 70% within the
next year or so. All prices will magically float higher,
even taking any RAM price fixing into account. Even the
Chinese, with CXMT, are not rocking the boat and are willing
to price fix with everyone else. Because if they
don't play nice, with a nice high price, there
will be additional efforts to block them. As far as
I know (little info to go on), CXMT is not making
HBM3, so their fab capacity could be used for
actual computer standards instead. And they could
drop the price and bite off a good chunk of market
share, but getting blocked would be their reward.
They won't starve, as they have the Chinese market.
And the really awful article content on the web,
is the contention that computers will "run on vapor
if we just squeeze the fat out of the OS". Any time
promises like that were made in the past, it was
all words and no action.
They could make a new OS, which was very tiny
(like Linux TinyCore), but it might not have
all the security subsystems, and it would be
suited to a naive 1990s environment. We would then
have to convince the web sites, to make less-scummy
web pages. Some of the web pages now, they don't
even scroll smoothly. And that's not an accident.
Web pages don't have to be like that.
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web access.
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:What's your new one ?
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web access. >>
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
On 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop >>>>>>>>>
This is just great, an ARM Microsoft-brand laptop, so state-of- >>>>>>>>> the- art, so cool.-a Expensive, admittedly, heh.-a Comes with >>>>>>>>> Win11 Home, BTW.-a Not Pro.-a I don't get that.-a A mini PC from >>>>>>>>> China has a false but yet workable license for 11 Pro, but this >>>>>>>>> thing is legit so it has Home. People with money who don't
really know computers make a cash cow for MS, heh.
Or get a better, faster system for less and buy a MacBook Neo.
Maybe a better value in a way, but it's Apple, so no way I'd be >>>>>>> interested.-a I wouldn't buy a Surface, either, though, because >>>>>>> it's OEM Wintendo bullshit, a mini PC with a legitimate Win11
license purchased from Microsoft (just use "change product key" >>>>>>> in settings) is perfect for me.
You not being interested in better value is what make you a
zealot, not a rational person.
Uh, dude, read what I wrote, I did get a better value, by not
getting *either* of the Neo or the Surface corporate products.-a I
paid an inexpensive price for the hardware, and $200 for Win11 Pro
retail. That is the best value *possible*.
And how many "upgrades" did you have to make to make your computer
right?
Lay it all out
This time, I realized that what I had before was overkill.-a I
literally had a self-assembled system with 32 GB RAM, dual NVMe
drives, six cores 12 threads on the CPU, running *Linux*, and
previously Win11.-a This inexpensive mini PC from China runs Win11 in
16 GB RAM *shared with* the GPU, so it's really more like 12 GB
available, has 512 GB storage, but it "just works", with four cores
eight threads.-a You simply don't need more than what I have for basic
Winblows usage.-a I don't game.-a I'm just enjoying the benefit of how
tech has advanced to where something like this can be a workable system.
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought gray-
market licenses from an organization that sourced such from MS previous
to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license agreement.-a They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on Amazon.
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
And how many "upgrades" did you have to make to make your computer
right?
Lay it all out
This time, I realized that what I had before was overkill.-a I
literally had a self-assembled system with 32 GB RAM, dual NVMe
drives, six cores 12 threads on the CPU, running *Linux*, and
previously Win11.-a This inexpensive mini PC from China runs Win11 in >>>> 16 GB RAM *shared with* the GPU, so it's really more like 12 GB
available, has 512 GB storage, but it "just works", with four cores
eight threads.-a You simply don't need more than what I have for
basic Winblows usage.-a I don't game.-a I'm just enjoying the benefit >>>> of how tech has advanced to where something like this can be a
workable system.
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought gray-
market licenses from an organization that sourced such from MS
previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license agreement.
They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch software
though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
So you're in for $470...
...if you count your time to put it all together as zero...
...but are you including ALL the costs?
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
And how many "upgrades" did you have to make to make your computer >>>>>> right?
Lay it all out
This time, I realized that what I had before was overkill.-a I
literally had a self-assembled system with 32 GB RAM, dual NVMe
drives, six cores 12 threads on the CPU, running *Linux*, and
previously Win11.-a This inexpensive mini PC from China runs Win11
in 16 GB RAM *shared with* the GPU, so it's really more like 12 GB
available, has 512 GB storage, but it "just works", with four cores >>>>> eight threads.-a You simply don't need more than what I have for
basic Winblows usage.-a I don't game.-a I'm just enjoying the benefit >>>>> of how tech has advanced to where something like this can be a
workable system.
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought gray-
market licenses from an organization that sourced such from MS
previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license agreement.
They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch software
though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?
cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?
cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
And yet I have zero issues using it!
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought gray- >>>> market licenses from an organization that sourced such from MS
previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license agreement.
They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch software
though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
On 8/6/2026 6:35 PM, Alan wrote:
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought
gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such from
MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license
agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch >>>>> software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on
Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of sketchy
sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive
hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless.
Mac Mini M4
On Thu, 8/6/2026 6:36 PM, Alan wrote:
Mac Mini M4
"The Apple Mac mini M4 starts at $1,099 CAD on the Apple Store Canada"
10rCacore CPU
10rCacore GPU
16rCacore Neural Engine
passmark multithread 23,611 Multithread bench
Apple M4 10 Core (66%) 4,500 NA Singlethread bench
******* competitor *******
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B0DZ6RNV9L
GEEKOM IT13 MAX AI Mini PC, Intel Core Ultra 9 185H, $944.10 CAD 24GB LPDDR5 500GB SSD | up to 5.1GHz, Wi-Fi 7, Dual 2.5G LAN
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236849/intel-core-ultra-9-processor-185h-24m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz/specifications.html
Intel Core Ultra 9 185H (14%) 29,020 NA Multithread bench
Intel Core Ultra 9 185H (53%) 3,661 NA Singlethread bench
P-cores 6 (HT 12 threads)
E-cores 8
LPE cores 2
Total Threads 22
Max Turbo 5.1 GHz
Base Power 45 W
Turbo Power 115 W
Max memory 2x48GB LPDDR5/X (for speed reasons, one DIMM equivalent per channel)
That has 8 core Arc graphics and can run Intels collection
of AI junk. OpenVINO, WindowsML, DirectML, ONNX RT, WebGPU.
The system RAM is too low to be doing any decent models,
but the chip supports mapping of a significant percentage
of system RAM. If you fill machines like this with max RAM,
the box price starts heading for $3K. You can still buy the
box as configured, and enjoy it with no LLM-AI activity whatsoever.
*******
I'd rather have a properly selected desktop, rather than
squeeze that into a mini-PC. There are a few machines intended
for AI use, that are packed like sardines. It's just not
reasonable to do that, when the machine needs to breath. That's
why my Big Machine blows the curtains on the other side of the
room (I didn't know it could do that).
If you're going to spend money on RAM these days, it might
as well be bolted to a decent "carcass" :-) The RAM situation
tips everything upside down when shopping.
The Geekom IT13 makes a fine general purpose machine, but
it's kinda overkill for a desktop websurfer. The engine components
are in it for AI work (just needs max ram installed though). And if you're web surfing as an Olympic event, it would web surf better
with Linux than with Windows (threading issue).
The people who buy mini-PC, do not normally shop at that
price level. That's like in the "old days", shopping for
high end NUC. Sure, at least one person in the Windows group
bought a high end NUC, but Intel was very happy to sell you
one of those, for the margin on it. The mini-PC industry
of today, is partially the result of Intel leaving behind
the NUC business (Intel likes to shut down everything
that is a "distraction", which is a weird policy if it
makes money). Today, Intel could not compete with the
mini-PC people, they would eat Intels lunch.
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
And yet I have zero issues using it!
The difference being that the Mac Mini will run silent and the
PC equivalent will be as loud as a hair dryer to provide you with
better multi-core performance.
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not
legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought
gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such from >>>>>> MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license
agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with
sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was >>>>>> $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of
sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive
hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless.
So your inexpensive hardware suddenly became a lot more expensive,
didn't it?
Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/6/2026 5:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288> >>>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>>
That's just...sad.
And yet I have zero issues using it!
Just ask him for the price of the Mac Mini M4 with comparable specs -
i.e. RAM, SSD storage, ports, etc. - as your Mini-PC. After all, we're
in for a laugh.
N.B. I had such a (non-)contest once with him. Sadly for him, my phone out-specced his - sometimes by a factor of two - and was half the price.
Bottom line: Apple makes good stuff. Whether you can and want to pay
their prices is another matter. But more to the point, the 'comparison'
is moot anyway, because it doesn't run most of our software.
FTR, some of my loved ones use Apple devices and are very happy with
them. Good on them!
On 8/6/2026 8:25 PM, Alan wrote:
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not >>>>>>> legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought >>>>>>> gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such from >>>>>>> MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license
agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with
sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was >>>>>>> $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of
sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive
hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless.
So your inexpensive hardware suddenly became a lot more expensive,
didn't it?
I actually already had the Win11 license because I *attempted* to use it
on the previous mini, but it kept crashing because the CPU was too slow.
-aI bought it for the same *reason*, though, because *both* minis came
with gray-market 11 Pro licenses.
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not >>>>>>>> legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought >>>>>>>> gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such
from MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license >>>>>>>> agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with
sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was >>>>>>>> $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of
sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive
hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless.
So your inexpensive hardware suddenly became a lot more expensive,
didn't it?
I actually already had the Win11 license because I *attempted* to use
it on the previous mini, but it kept crashing because the CPU was too
slow. -a-aI bought it for the same *reason*, though, because *both*
minis came with gray-market 11 Pro licenses.
So you still had to buy extra stuff to end up with one system you want
to use.
Got it.
On 8/8/2026 2:58 PM, Alan wrote:
So your inexpensive hardware suddenly became a lot more expensive,I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not >>>>>>>>> legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought >>>>>>>>> gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such >>>>>>>>> from MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license >>>>>>>>> agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with >>>>>>>>> sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it >>>>>>>>> was $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of
sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive
hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless. >>>>
didn't it?
I actually already had the Win11 license because I *attempted* to use
it on the previous mini, but it kept crashing because the CPU was too
slow. -a-aI bought it for the same *reason*, though, because *both*
minis came with gray-market 11 Pro licenses.
So you still had to buy extra stuff to end up with one system you want
to use.
Got it.
No, I don't think you got it.-a Windows 11 is intellectual property.
Paying for a legit license is not "extra stuff", it's required if one doesn't want to just be some person buying it as it comes from a dealer
not working directly with MS.-a And having to buy a second mini PC may
have cost something but big deal, these are commodity products, unlike
your Apple luxury bullshit.
On 2026-08-07 08:26, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/6/2026 8:25 PM, Alan wrote:
I paid the $200 because the Win11 Pro that came with it was not legitimate intellectual property.-a The company in China bought gray- market licenses from an organization that sourced such from MS previous to that.-a That is a violation of MS's license agreement. They tolerate it, maybe, I don't fuck around with sketch software though.-a As for the cost of the hardware, it was $270 on Amazon.
So you buying from sketchy sources is whose fault?
It was sold on Amazon.
So what? Every intelligent person knows that there are lots of sketchy sellers on Amazon.
Which does explain why you bought it anyway.
Uh huh, but that was intentional, Alan, I wanted the inexpensive hardware.-a I did not want their gray-market OS license, nevertheless.
So your inexpensive hardware suddenly became a lot more expensive, didn't it?
I actually already had the Win11 license because I *attempted* to use it on the previous mini,
but it kept crashing because the CPU was too slow. -a-aI bought it for the same *reason*, though,
because *both* minis came with gray-market 11 Pro licenses.
So you still had to buy extra stuff to end up with one system you want to use.
Got it.
I actually already had the Win11 license because I *attempted* to
use it on the previous mini, but it kept crashing because the CPU
was too slow. -a-aI bought it for the same *reason*, though, because
*both* minis came with gray-market 11 Pro licenses.
So you still had to buy extra stuff to end up with one system you
want to use.
Got it.
No, I don't think you got it.-a Windows 11 is intellectual property.
Paying for a legit license is not "extra stuff", it's required if one
doesn't want to just be some person buying it as it comes from a
dealer not working directly with MS.-a And having to buy a second mini
PC may have cost something but big deal, these are commodity products,
unlike your Apple luxury bullshit.
You paid extra for the "previous mini" you "*attempted* to use", but
which ended up, "keeping" crashing because the CPU was too slow".
Any way you slice it, you've bought more stuff to finally end up with something you describe as merely adequate.
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows.
It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288> >>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
On 2026-08-10 6:35 a.m., vallor wrote:
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288> >>>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
It might just be powerful enough to run Leisure Suit Larry AND Calculator simultaneously.
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web
access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288> >>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
On Mon, 8/10/2026 8:05 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-08-10 6:35 a.m., vallor wrote:
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>>>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
It might just be powerful enough to run Leisure Suit Larry AND Calculator simultaneously.
I'm sure we can find something...
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (86%) 171,200 NA MultiThread bench AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (66%) 4,542 NA SingleThread bench
Take that and that, AppleFanClub :-)
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-pro-9995wx.c4163
96C 192T 350 Watts MSRP of $11700
"but can boost up to 5.4 GHz, depending on the workload"
Yes, running SuperPI 1.5XS all day long, that's my workload.
There you go. I could pair that with my two GT1030 cards :-)
With a processor that powerful, you don't even need RAM!
Your kernel could live in the L3 cache. You could do your
taxes in the L2 cache.
ThererCOs little question that thererCOs some serious chips out thererCa
rCabut at $11.7K, thatrCOs at around two full orders of magnitude too pricy for
Joel to contemplate.
(And IrCOve not really been following this .. is this JoelrCOs *THIRD* replacement PC now?)
-hh
On Mon, 8/10/2026 8:05 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-08-10 6:35 a.m., vallor wrote:
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never
had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040> >>>>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
It might just be powerful enough to run Leisure Suit Larry AND Calculator simultaneously.
I'm sure we can find something...
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (86%) 171,200 NA MultiThread bench AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (66%) 4,542 NA SingleThread bench
Take that and that, AppleFanClub :-)
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-pro-9995wx.c4163
96C 192T 350 Watts MSRP of $11700
"but can boost up to 5.4 GHz, depending on the workload"
Yes, running SuperPI 1.5XS all day long, that's my workload.
There you go. I could pair that with my two GT1030 cards :-)
With a processor that powerful, you don't even need RAM!
Your kernel could live in the L3 cache. You could do your
taxes in the L2 cache.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 8/10/2026 8:05 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-08-10 6:35 a.m., vallor wrote:
At Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:49:13 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2026-08-05 15:08, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 6:05 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 5:56 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-05 14:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/5/2026 5:22 PM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 8/5/2026 4:10 PM, Alan wrote:
No dollar figures...except you're already in $200 for Windows. >>>>>>>>>>>It's an N150 based miniPC
No, I replaced that one with an eight-thread AMD CPU/GPU.
So you paid twice to get the computer you actually needed.
I am intending to give the previous one to a friend who's never >>>>>>>> had a PC of his own, putting Linux on it for him, to have basic Web >>>>>>>> access.
What's your new one ?
Quite a few processors would be 4C 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GHV7W7F6
AMD Ryzen 5300U
So less than half the CPU power in a Mac Mini M4
9,240 vs 23,611 on cpubenchmark.net.
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+5300U&id=4288>
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040>
That's just...sad.
Don't look now, but there's a hot rod on the track:
62,898
<https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+Threadripper+3970X&id=3623>
It might just be powerful enough to run Leisure Suit Larry AND Calculator simultaneously.
I'm sure we can find something...
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (86%) 171,200 NA MultiThread bench >> AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX (66%) 4,542 NA SingleThread bench >>
Take that and that, AppleFanClub :-)
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-pro-9995wx.c4163
96C 192T 350 Watts MSRP of $11700
"but can boost up to 5.4 GHz, depending on the workload"
Yes, running SuperPI 1.5XS all day long, that's my workload.
There you go. I could pair that with my two GT1030 cards :-)
With a processor that powerful, you don't even need RAM!
Your kernel could live in the L3 cache. You could do your
taxes in the L2 cache.
ThererCOs little question that thererCOs some serious chips out thererCa
rCabut at $11.7K, thatrCOs at around two full orders of magnitude too pricy for
Joel to contemplate.
(And IrCOve not really been following this .. is this JoelrCOs *THIRD* replacement PC now?)
(And IrCOve not really been following this .. is this JoelrCOs *THIRD* replacement PC now?)
You can't imagine the processing power necessary to display images of
"girl cock!"
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers
that can double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather
than the quiet, elegant machines they use today.
On 2026-08-10 11:32 a.m., Paul wrote:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX-a (86%)-a 171,200-a-a NA-a-a MultiThread >> bench
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX-a (66%)-a-a-a 4,542-a-a NA-a-a SingleThread
bench
Take that and that, AppleFanClub :-)
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-pro-9995wx.c4163
-a-a-a 96C 192T 350 Watts-a MSRP of $11700
-a-a-a-a "but can boost up to 5.4 GHz, depending on the workload"
Yes, running SuperPI 1.5XS all day long, that's my workload.
There you go. I could pair that with my two GT1030 cards :-)
With a processor that powerful, you don't even need RAM!
Your kernel could live in the L3 cache. You could do your
taxes in the L2 cache.
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers that can double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather than the quiet, elegant machines they use today.
On 8/11/2026 8:43 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-08-10 11:32 a.m., Paul wrote:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX-a (86%)-a 171,200-a-a NA-a-a MultiThread >>> bench
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 9995WX-a (66%)-a-a-a 4,542-a-a NA-a-a SingleThread
bench
Take that and that, AppleFanClub :-)
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-
pro-9995wx.c4163
-a-a-a 96C 192T 350 Watts-a MSRP of $11700
-a-a-a-a "but can boost up to 5.4 GHz, depending on the workload"
Yes, running SuperPI 1.5XS all day long, that's my workload.
There you go. I could pair that with my two GT1030 cards :-)
With a processor that powerful, you don't even need RAM!
Your kernel could live in the L3 cache. You could do your
taxes in the L2 cache.
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers that can
double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather than the
quiet, elegant machines they use today.
Yeah their computers are cool and quiet but running a lame-ass OS.
On 2026-08-11 14:00, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/11/2026 8:43 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers that
can double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather than the
quiet, elegant machines they use today.
Yeah their computers are cool and quiet but running a lame-ass OS.
Except you've yet to ever articulate a single way macOS is supposedly "lame-ass", beyond:
"Waahhh! I don't like it!".
On 8/11/2026 5:23 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-11 14:00, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/11/2026 8:43 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers that
can double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather than
the quiet, elegant machines they use today.
Yeah their computers are cool and quiet but running a lame-ass OS.
Except you've yet to ever articulate a single way macOS is supposedly
"lame-ass", beyond:
"Waahhh! I don't like it!".
That's a good reason, though, because I'm cool AF.
On 2026-08-11 14:26, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/11/2026 5:23 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-08-11 14:00, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 8/11/2026 8:43 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm sure that all the Apple fans would love to have computers that
can double as room heaters and sound like hair dryers rather than
the quiet, elegant machines they use today.
Yeah their computers are cool and quiet but running a lame-ass OS.
Except you've yet to ever articulate a single way macOS is supposedly
"lame-ass", beyond:
"Waahhh! I don't like it!".
That's a good reason, though, because I'm cool AF.
Says a sample group of one.
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 74 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 45:27:31 |
| Calls: | 1,100 |
| Files: | 1,339 |
| Messages: | 275,372 |
