• The Debt Trap

    From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 13:34:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses.
    This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system
    would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with
    less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in
    time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll
    have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@punditster@gmail.com to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 10:49:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/2026 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    The obvious solution to debt is to charge more, and/or print more fiat
    money and just wipe it off the books. However, when I was a child, I
    spoke like a child, now that I've finished school I can no longer think
    like a child (1 Corinthians 13:11).

    The Truth:

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 18:17:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 1:34:32rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses.
    This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with
    less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress will be forced

    by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    And if you raise taxes, you lose the vote?
    I don't understand economics so can't say if this is true or not, but
    This was an article in the Globe&Mail

    The United States is headed for a fiscal cliff
    Andrew Coyne
    Published August 12, 2026

    In the time it takes you to read this column, the United States will add another US$20-million to its national debt. By the end of the day, it will be nearly US$9-billion more than it was yesterday; in a week, US$60-billion, more than the government of Canada borrows in a year.

    The annual U.S. federal budget deficit is now running at close to US$2-trillion: nearly 6 per cent of GDP, and headed for 9 per cent or more by 2036, assuming current tax and spending policies continue. The total national debt, at nearly US$40-trillion, now exceeds 120 per cent of GDP.

    Of course, some of that includes money the federal government owes itself:
    U.S. Treasury securities purchased by the Social Security Trust Fund out of
    the surpluses it racked up in years past. The Congressional Budget Office calculates that, net of these holdings, the national debt amounts to rCLonlyrCY US$32-trillion, or just over 100 per cent of GDP, though that, too, is projected to grow rCo to nearly 140 per cent by 2036, 175 per cent by 2056.

    However, Social Security is now rapidly burning through its reserves, the surpluses having long since turned to deficits. By 2032, they are expected to run out. At that point, barring major change, the U.S. government will have to meet its Social Security obligations out of current taxes. And since those taxes are already more than claimed by other obligations, that means the government will have to go even further into debt to cover the difference: roughly another 3 per cent of GDP annually, by 2056.

    The Social Security Board of Trustees calculates the present value of the unfunded liability in Social Security over the next 75 years at roughly US$29-trillion.

    Global debt hits record of near US$353-trillion, with signs of investors
    moving away from the U.S.

    Add it up, and thatrCOs close to US$70-trillion in debt. But thatrCOs not all. Including the unfunded liabilities in Medicare (what the U.S. calls their system of public health care for the poor and the elderly) would add about US$60-trillion to the total; the pension plan for federal government
    employees, civilian and military, roughly US$3-trillion, plus another US$9-trillion and change in unfunded health benefits for those same employees.

    Throw in state and local government debts of about US$3.7-trillion, and the
    net unfunded liabilities in their pension plans, at a measly US$700-billion, and you get something approaching the consolidated debt of the U.S. public sector: on the order of US$146-trillion, more than four times their GDP.

    Of late, the people who buy U.S. debt have begun to notice. The yield on 30-year U.S. Treasuries, which fell through 40 years of disinflation after the early 1980s, has lately been rising. It now stands at more than 5.2 per cent, the highest it has been since 2004.

    Some of that is real rCo all those government bonds competing for buyers with other bonds, from other issuers rCo and some of it is a premium for expected higher inflation, itself related to all that debt. At some point, market participants are betting, the U.S. may try to inflate its way out of its
    debts, paying back its lenders in devalued dollars. The interest rate they require to hold U.S. debt adjusts accordingly, to cover themselves against
    this risk.

    Either way, itrCOs all kinds of trouble. The higher the interest rate on its debt, the more the U.S. government will have to pay its lenders, and the greater its debts will grow. Interest costs on U.S. government debt currently amount to about 3.3 per cent of GDP. They are projected to be nearly three times that much, relative to GDP, in 30 years.

    But that assumes the average interest rate on U.S. debt, now at 3.4 per cent all maturities combined, rises only to 4.2 per cent. Were it to rise instead to, say, 5.2 per cent, the interest-to-GDP ratio rises to 15 per cent. At an average interest rate of 6.2 per cent rCo a rate more commensurate with the size
    of U.S. liabilities rCo it hits 22.4 per cent.

    Even at 10 per cent of GDP rCo the rCLrosyrCY scenario rCo interest costs would be
    eating up more than half of all federal revenues. (For comparison, at the height of CanadarCOs debt woes, interest costs consumed 36 per cent of federal revenues.) At higher interest rates rCo well, itrCOs just too horrible to even contemplate.

    The U.S. is heading straight for a fiscal cliff. And at its helm is a
    President who proposes to spend even more, and who demands the Federal
    Reserve, in the face of rising prices, cut interest rates. It is all going to end in an ocean of tears.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 19:44:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 15:03:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/2026 2:17 PM, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 1:34:32rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also
    impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses.
    This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The
    Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It >> can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if
    abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but
    clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system
    would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with
    less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security,
    Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts,
    without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and >> all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in
    time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point >> of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true
    greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is
    obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress >> will be forced

    by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll
    have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    And if you raise taxes, you lose the vote?
    I don't understand economics so can't say if this is true or not, but
    This was an article in the Globe&Mail

    The United States is headed for a fiscal cliff
    Andrew Coyne
    Published August 12, 2026

    In the time it takes you to read this column, the United States will add another US$20-million to its national debt. By the end of the day, it will be nearly US$9-billion more than it was yesterday; in a week, US$60-billion, more
    than the government of Canada borrows in a year.

    The annual U.S. federal budget deficit is now running at close to US$2-trillion: nearly 6 per cent of GDP, and headed for 9 per cent or more by 2036, assuming current tax and spending policies continue. The total national debt, at nearly US$40-trillion, now exceeds 120 per cent of GDP.

    Of course, some of that includes money the federal government owes itself: U.S. Treasury securities purchased by the Social Security Trust Fund out of the surpluses it racked up in years past. The Congressional Budget Office calculates that, net of these holdings, the national debt amounts to rCLonlyrCY
    US$32-trillion, or just over 100 per cent of GDP, though that, too, is projected to grow rCo to nearly 140 per cent by 2036, 175 per cent by 2056.

    However, Social Security is now rapidly burning through its reserves, the surpluses having long since turned to deficits. By 2032, they are expected to run out. At that point, barring major change, the U.S. government will have to
    meet its Social Security obligations out of current taxes. And since those taxes are already more than claimed by other obligations, that means the government will have to go even further into debt to cover the difference: roughly another 3 per cent of GDP annually, by 2056.

    The Social Security Board of Trustees calculates the present value of the unfunded liability in Social Security over the next 75 years at roughly US$29-trillion.

    Global debt hits record of near US$353-trillion, with signs of investors moving away from the U.S.

    Add it up, and thatrCOs close to US$70-trillion in debt. But thatrCOs not all.
    Including the unfunded liabilities in Medicare (what the U.S. calls their system of public health care for the poor and the elderly) would add about US$60-trillion to the total; the pension plan for federal government employees, civilian and military, roughly US$3-trillion, plus another US$9-trillion and change in unfunded health benefits for those same employees.

    Throw in state and local government debts of about US$3.7-trillion, and the net unfunded liabilities in their pension plans, at a measly US$700-billion, and you get something approaching the consolidated debt of the U.S. public sector: on the order of US$146-trillion, more than four times their GDP.

    Of late, the people who buy U.S. debt have begun to notice. The yield on 30-year U.S. Treasuries, which fell through 40 years of disinflation after the
    early 1980s, has lately been rising. It now stands at more than 5.2 per cent, the highest it has been since 2004.

    Some of that is real rCo all those government bonds competing for buyers with other bonds, from other issuers rCo and some of it is a premium for expected higher inflation, itself related to all that debt. At some point, market participants are betting, the U.S. may try to inflate its way out of its debts, paying back its lenders in devalued dollars. The interest rate they require to hold U.S. debt adjusts accordingly, to cover themselves against this risk.

    Either way, itrCOs all kinds of trouble. The higher the interest rate on its debt, the more the U.S. government will have to pay its lenders, and the greater its debts will grow. Interest costs on U.S. government debt currently amount to about 3.3 per cent of GDP. They are projected to be nearly three times that much, relative to GDP, in 30 years.

    But that assumes the average interest rate on U.S. debt, now at 3.4 per cent all maturities combined, rises only to 4.2 per cent. Were it to rise instead to, say, 5.2 per cent, the interest-to-GDP ratio rises to 15 per cent. At an average interest rate of 6.2 per cent rCo a rate more commensurate with the size
    of U.S. liabilities rCo it hits 22.4 per cent.

    Even at 10 per cent of GDP rCo the rCLrosyrCY scenario rCo interest costs would be
    eating up more than half of all federal revenues. (For comparison, at the height of CanadarCOs debt woes, interest costs consumed 36 per cent of federal
    revenues.) At higher interest rates rCo well, itrCOs just too horrible to even
    contemplate.

    The U.S. is heading straight for a fiscal cliff. And at its helm is a President who proposes to spend even more, and who demands the Federal Reserve, in the face of rising prices, cut interest rates. It is all going to end in an ocean of tears.

    That's pretty much the same conclusion, which I share.

    It's fixable, if we had a congress & president who were tough enough to
    deal in reality. But we don't.

    That debt is never getting paid back. It will be inflated away as much
    as they can get away with, but even that won't be enough to balance the
    books.

    You think that's bad? What will happen when a large portion of the
    people who currently believe in the system stop believing?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 19:23:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 3:03:08rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 2:17 PM, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 1:34:32rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >>> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >>> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >>> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >>> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point >>> of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >>> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced

    by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    And if you raise taxes, you lose the vote?
    I don't understand economics so can't say if this is true or not, but
    This was an article in the Globe&Mail

    The United States is headed for a fiscal cliff
    Andrew Coyne
    Published August 12, 2026

    In the time it takes you to read this column, the United States will add
    another US$20-million to its national debt. By the end of the day, it will be
    nearly US$9-billion more than it was yesterday; in a week, US$60-billion, more
    than the government of Canada borrows in a year.

    The annual U.S. federal budget deficit is now running at close to
    US$2-trillion: nearly 6 per cent of GDP, and headed for 9 per cent or more by
    2036, assuming current tax and spending policies continue. The total national
    debt, at nearly US$40-trillion, now exceeds 120 per cent of GDP.

    Of course, some of that includes money the federal government owes itself: >> U.S. Treasury securities purchased by the Social Security Trust Fund out of >> the surpluses it racked up in years past. The Congressional Budget Office
    calculates that, net of these holdings, the national debt amounts to rCLonlyrCY
    US$32-trillion, or just over 100 per cent of GDP, though that, too, is
    projected to grow rCo to nearly 140 per cent by 2036, 175 per cent by 2056. >>
    However, Social Security is now rapidly burning through its reserves, the
    surpluses having long since turned to deficits. By 2032, they are expected to
    run out. At that point, barring major change, the U.S. government will have to
    meet its Social Security obligations out of current taxes. And since those >> taxes are already more than claimed by other obligations, that means the
    government will have to go even further into debt to cover the difference: >> roughly another 3 per cent of GDP annually, by 2056.

    The Social Security Board of Trustees calculates the present value of the
    unfunded liability in Social Security over the next 75 years at roughly
    US$29-trillion.

    Global debt hits record of near US$353-trillion, with signs of investors
    moving away from the U.S.

    Add it up, and thatrCOs close to US$70-trillion in debt. But thatrCOs not all.
    Including the unfunded liabilities in Medicare (what the U.S. calls their
    system of public health care for the poor and the elderly) would add about >> US$60-trillion to the total; the pension plan for federal government
    employees, civilian and military, roughly US$3-trillion, plus another
    US$9-trillion and change in unfunded health benefits for those same employees.

    Throw in state and local government debts of about US$3.7-trillion, and the >> net unfunded liabilities in their pension plans, at a measly US$700-billion, >> and you get something approaching the consolidated debt of the U.S. public >> sector: on the order of US$146-trillion, more than four times their GDP.

    Of late, the people who buy U.S. debt have begun to notice. The yield on
    30-year U.S. Treasuries, which fell through 40 years of disinflation after the
    early 1980s, has lately been rising. It now stands at more than 5.2 per cent,
    the highest it has been since 2004.

    Some of that is real rCo all those government bonds competing for buyers with
    other bonds, from other issuers rCo and some of it is a premium for expected >> higher inflation, itself related to all that debt. At some point, market
    participants are betting, the U.S. may try to inflate its way out of its
    debts, paying back its lenders in devalued dollars. The interest rate they >> require to hold U.S. debt adjusts accordingly, to cover themselves against >> this risk.

    Either way, itrCOs all kinds of trouble. The higher the interest rate on its >> debt, the more the U.S. government will have to pay its lenders, and the
    greater its debts will grow. Interest costs on U.S. government debt currently
    amount to about 3.3 per cent of GDP. They are projected to be nearly three >> times that much, relative to GDP, in 30 years.

    But that assumes the average interest rate on U.S. debt, now at 3.4 per cent >> all maturities combined, rises only to 4.2 per cent. Were it to rise instead >> to, say, 5.2 per cent, the interest-to-GDP ratio rises to 15 per cent. At an >> average interest rate of 6.2 per cent rCo a rate more commensurate with the size
    of U.S. liabilities rCo it hits 22.4 per cent.

    Even at 10 per cent of GDP rCo the rCLrosyrCY scenario rCo interest costs would be
    eating up more than half of all federal revenues. (For comparison, at the
    height of CanadarCOs debt woes, interest costs consumed 36 per cent of federal
    revenues.) At higher interest rates rCo well, itrCOs just too horrible to even
    contemplate.

    The U.S. is heading straight for a fiscal cliff. And at its helm is President
    who proposes to spend even more, and who demands the Federal
    Reserve, in the face of rising prices, cut interest rates. It is all going to
    end in an ocean of tears.

    That's pretty much the same conclusion, which I share.

    It's fixable, if we had a congress & president who were tough enough to
    deal in reality. But we don't.

    That debt is never getting paid back. It will be inflated away as much
    as they can get away with, but even that won't be enough to balance the books.

    You think that's bad? What will happen when a large portion of the
    people who currently believe in the system stop believing?

    Coyne says all this doom is predicted - "baring major change"
    Revolution?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 19:36:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 2:44:21rC>PM EDT, "Julian" <julianlzb87@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also
    impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses.
    This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The
    Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It >> can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if
    abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but
    clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system
    would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with
    less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security,
    Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts,
    without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and >> all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in
    time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point >> of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true
    greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is
    obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress >> will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll
    have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    if nothing else, I now understand how poop gets stuck in the K-bend. (Commercial :)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 19:40:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:

    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60 cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8 trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By 2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the tax base. --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 20:06:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 3:36:22rC>PM EDT, "Tara" <tsm@fastmail.ca> wrote:

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 2:44:21rC>PM EDT, "Julian" <julianlzb87@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >>> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >>> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >>> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >>> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point >>> of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >>> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of aThe
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKM

    if nothing else, I now understand how poop gets stuck in the K-bend. (Commercial :)

    The video is good. Not that I understand a lot of it, but there is something about how a brit tells it that makes it entertaining.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 13:33:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/26 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    > not actual wealth
    >
    > #god
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 20:53:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60 cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8 trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By 2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt?

    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth.
    We studied this in school - 5th grade.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 21:59:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 15/08/2026 21:06, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 3:36:22rC>PM EDT, "Tara" <tsm@fastmail.ca> wrote:

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 2:44:21rC>PM EDT, "Julian" <julianlzb87@gmail.com> wrote: >>
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >>>> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >>>> Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the >>>> debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >>>> productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay >>>> the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >>>> systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving >>>> the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >>>> electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. >>>> And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >>>> leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >>>> definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much. >>>>
    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >>>> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it >>>> and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >>>> spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before >>>> any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was >>>> less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >>>> trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >>>> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >>>> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >>>> struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >>>> billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, >>>> the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >>>> conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is >>>> no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep >>>> piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and >>>> Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >>>> growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 >>>> itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the >>>> same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >>>> 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >>>> almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem >>>> is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on >>>> the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending >>>> is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking >>>> a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security >>>> will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago >>>> they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become >>>> the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt >>>> is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over >>>> $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >>>> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >>>> Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of aThe >>>> deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>>>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKM

    if nothing else, I now understand how poop gets stuck in the K-bend.
    (Commercial :)

    The video is good. Not that I understand a lot of it, but there
    is something about how a brit tells it that makes it entertaining.

    Patrick is Irish. :) He's a great story teller.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 21:19:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 15/08/2026 21:06, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 3:36:22rC>PM EDT, "Tara" <tsm@fastmail.ca> wrote:

    On Aug 15, 2026 at 2:44:21rC>PM EDT, "Julian" <julianlzb87@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>>>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>>>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt
    walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >>>>> Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt >>>>> reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the >>>>> debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>>>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending >>>>> and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>>>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>>>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60 >>>>> cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >>>>> productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>>>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay >>>>> the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>>>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>>>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure >>>>> spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >>>>> systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>>>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can >>>>> easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>>>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access >>>>> those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving >>>>> the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >>>>> electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. >>>>> And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on. >>>>>
    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>>>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it >>>>> will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >>>>> leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said >>>>> another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >>>>> definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>>>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much. >>>>>
    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What >>>>> programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar >>>>> the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it >>>>> and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>>>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>>>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >>>>> spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before >>>>> any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was >>>>> less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >>>>> trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55%
    above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the
    wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>>>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >>>>> struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >>>>> billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, >>>>> the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>>>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >>>>> conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>>>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is >>>>> no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to >>>>> change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep >>>>> piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>>>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future. >>>>> There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>>>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and >>>>> Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >>>>> growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive >>>>> capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 >>>>> itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer >>>>> interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the >>>>> same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is >>>>> about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >>>>> 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >>>>> almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem >>>>> is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>>>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on >>>>> the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending >>>>> is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the >>>>> world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>>>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking >>>>> a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security >>>>> will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago >>>>> they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will >>>>> probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become >>>>> the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt >>>>> is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>>>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By >>>>> 2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over >>>>> $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising >>>>> the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>>>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around
    that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a >>>>> greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>>>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >>>>> Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at >>>>> least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of aThe >>>>> deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. >>>>> WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKM

    if nothing else, I now understand how poop gets stuck in the K-bend.
    (Commercial :)

    The video is good. Not that I understand a lot of it, but there
    is something about how a brit tells it that makes it entertaining.

    Patrick is Irish. :) He's a great story teller.


    Of course he is. :) No better story tellers than the Irish.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sat Aug 15 14:40:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/26 1:53 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >>> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >>> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >>> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >>> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point >>> of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >>> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth.
    We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it
    will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked
    down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't
    say ...
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noah Sombrero@fedora@fea.st to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 17:55:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 13:34:32 -0400, Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid>
    wrote:

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyAs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnAt work, but was also >impossible to escape. ThatAs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canAt last, but we canAt
    walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    The attempt is to say that the finances of a nation are not different
    from the finances of an individual. Simplistic answers are best
    because we can at least understand them. It is not necessary for them
    to be correct, but let us escape when we can't comprehend a solution
    to the problems we face. And a good old elvis song will make us feel
    better every time.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canAt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IAve called The >Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenAt in the debt trap. We were omerelyo in a situation with only bad >choices. I didnAt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonAt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetAs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnAt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnAt have a direct payoff, but >clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional >representative gives lip service to the concept of oinfrastructure >spending.o And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatAs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of >productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said >another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HereAs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have >excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatAs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    u particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What >programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency u people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    omandatoryo expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called odiscretionaryo budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion u 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itAs headed the >wrong way again. The CBOAs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past >performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatAs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonAt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnAt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntAs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyAs productive >capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this >mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itAs a different pressure doing the pushing u elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most >countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The >explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to ogrow our way out of it.o The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canAt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will >probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatAs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnAt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >that time the bond markets will finally say, oEnough, already!o Congress >will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a >greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But weAll
    have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >Japan have done. Sadly, I donAt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canAt go on together.
    WeAre caught in a trap. We canAt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    --
    Noah Sombrero mustachioed villain
    Don't get political with me young man
    or I'll tie you to a railroad track and
    <<<talk>>> to <<<YOOooooo>>>
    Who dares to talk to El Sombrero?
    dares: Ned
    does not dare: Julian shrinks in horror and warns others away

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noah Sombrero@fedora@fea.st to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 18:29:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 10:49:04 -0700, Dude <punditster@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyAs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts
    in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnAt work, but was also
    impossible to escape. ThatAs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canAt last, but we canAt
    walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare,
    Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canAt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the
    debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses.
    This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IAve called The
    Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenAt in the debt trap. We were omerelyo in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnAt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonAt be fun
    for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut.

    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the
    productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetAs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnAt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build
    a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay
    the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if
    abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnAt have a direct payoff, but
    clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system.

    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of oinfrastructure
    spending.o And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatAs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water
    systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system
    would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee
    the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving
    the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with
    electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs.
    And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We
    use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses,
    leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the
    definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with
    less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HereAs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much.

    ThatAs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    u particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency u people who benefit from it
    and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security,
    Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    omandatoryo expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts,
    without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory
    spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before
    any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called odiscretionaryo budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was
    less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1
    trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion u 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55%
    above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itAs headed the
    wrong way again. The CBOAs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up
    from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court
    struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200
    billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House,
    the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party
    is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal
    conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatAs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ
    on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is
    no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonAt change, and debt will keep
    piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in
    time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnAt matter because we
    can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and
    Lacy HuntAs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic
    growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyAs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026
    itAs a different pressure doing the pushing u elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the
    same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early
    2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from
    almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem
    is to ogrow our way out of it.o The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canAt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true
    greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on
    the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending
    is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I
    am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking
    a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security
    will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago
    they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become
    the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt
    is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is
    obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over
    $2 trillion. ThatAs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes.
    But that doesnAt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around
    that time the bond markets will finally say, oEnough, already!o Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But weAll
    have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and
    Japan have done. Sadly, I donAt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canAt go on together.
    WeAre caught in a trap. We canAt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    The obvious solution to debt is to charge more, and/or print more fiat
    money and just wipe it off the books. However, when I was a child, I
    spoke like a child, now that I've finished school I can no longer think
    like a child (1 Corinthians 13:11).

    The Truth:

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal >budget surplusutaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    A well known canadian politician once said, my opponent wants to raise
    taxes. That is ok, with me, he is responsible for his own campaign.
    Sure trudy, say that.


    --
    Noah Sombrero mustachioed villain
    Don't get political with me young man
    or I'll tie you to a railroad track and
    <<<talk>>> to <<<YOOooooo>>>
    Who dares to talk to El Sombrero?
    dares: Ned
    does not dare: Julian shrinks in horror and warns others away

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 22:45:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 1:53 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt
    walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >>> Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the >>> debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >>> productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay >>> the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >>> systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving >>> the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >>> electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. >>> And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >>> leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >>> definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much. >>>
    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it >>> and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >>> spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before >>> any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was >>> less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >>> trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55%
    above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the
    wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >>> struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >>> billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, >>> the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >>> conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is >>> no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep >>> piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and >>> Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >>> growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 >>> itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the >>> same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >>> 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >>> almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem >>> is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on >>> the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending >>> is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking >>> a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security >>> will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago >>> they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become >>> the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt >>> is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over >>> $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around
    that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >>> Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>
    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked
    down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't
    say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sat Aug 15 22:51:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 1:53 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 10:34 AM, Wilson wrote:
    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>>>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>>>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt
    walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >>>>> Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt >>>>> reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the >>>>> debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>>>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending >>>>> and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>>>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>>>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60 >>>>> cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >>>>> productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>>>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay >>>>> the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>>>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>>>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure >>>>> spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >>>>> systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>>>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can >>>>> easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>>>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access >>>>> those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving >>>>> the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >>>>> electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. >>>>> And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on. >>>>>
    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>>>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it >>>>> will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >>>>> leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said >>>>> another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >>>>> definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>>>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much. >>>>>
    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics
    rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What >>>>> programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar >>>>> the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it >>>>> and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>>>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>>>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >>>>> spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before >>>>> any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was >>>>> less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >>>>> trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55%
    above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the
    wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>>>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >>>>> struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >>>>> billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, >>>>> the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>>>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >>>>> conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>>>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is >>>>> no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to >>>>> change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep >>>>> piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>>>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future. >>>>> There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>>>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and >>>>> Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >>>>> growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive >>>>> capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 >>>>> itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer >>>>> interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the >>>>> same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is >>>>> about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >>>>> 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >>>>> almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem >>>>> is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>>>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on >>>>> the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending >>>>> is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the >>>>> world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>>>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking >>>>> a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security >>>>> will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago >>>>> they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will >>>>> probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become >>>>> the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt >>>>> is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>>>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By >>>>> 2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over >>>>> $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising >>>>> the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>>>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around
    that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a >>>>> greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>>>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >>>>> Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at >>>>> least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a >>>>> deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things.

    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together. >>>>> WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>>>
    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth. >>> We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it
    will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked
    down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't
    say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt healthcare
    and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 12:03:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/2026 3:23 PM, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 3:03:08rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/15/2026 2:17 PM, Tara wrote:
    On Aug 15, 2026 at 1:34:32rC>PM EDT, "Wilson" <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

    We're caught in a trap
    I can't walk out
    Because I love you too much, baby
    Why can't you see
    What you're doing to me
    When you don't believe a word I say?
    -Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley, 1969

    Elvis PresleyrCOs rendition of Suspicious Minds topped the record charts >>>> in 1969. The lyrics portray a romance that couldnrCOt work, but was also >>>> impossible to escape. ThatrCOs also a good way to describe our
    relationship with government debt. We know it canrCOt last, but we canrCOt >>>> walk out. We love government spending and its benefits (like Medicare, >>>> Social Security, and unemployment insurance) too much.

    In other words, we are in a debt trap. Our political process canrCOt
    reduce spending and/or raise taxes enough to balance the budget, so the >>>> debt grows and grows. As it does, paying the interest plus the
    accumulated debt load pulls more capital away from more productive uses. >>>> This depresses economic growth, thereby generating even more spending
    and debt.

    This has to end, and I think it will do so in the event IrCOve called The >>>> Great Reset. When I first started talking about The Great Reset, we
    werenrCOt in the debt trap. We were rCLmerelyrCY in a situation with only bad
    choices. I didnrCOt think we would make them. Thus the underlying
    presumption was that we would end up in a debt trap.

    The Great Reset will be our escape from the debt trap. It wonrCOt be fun >>>> for anyone, as taxes will go up and government spending of all types cut. >>>>
    Diverted Capital

    Each additional dollar of debt in 1980 generated a rise in GDP of 60
    cents, up from 54 cents in 1940. The 1980s was the last decade for the >>>> productivity of debt to rise. Since then, this ratio has dropped
    sharply, from 42 cents in 1989 to 27 cents in 2019.

    LetrCOs unpack this. Debt, even government debt, isnrCOt necessarily bad. It
    can actually be positive depending on how it is used. Borrowing to build >>>> a productive asset can make sense, if its output is sufficient to repay >>>> the debt and then produce even more.

    Like many temptations, debt can be good in moderation but destructive if >>>> abused. Some infrastructure spending doesnrCOt have a direct payoff, but >>>> clearly helps the overall economy, like the US interstate highway system. >>>>
    Let me offer a few illustrations. It seems that every congressional
    representative gives lip service to the concept of rCLinfrastructure
    spending.rCY And they never really get around to doing it in any
    sufficient quantity. Airports are necessary infrastructure and are
    typically paid for by landing fees. ThatrCOs productive debt.

    I have read that much of the US loses up to 20% of the water our water >>>> systems produce due to leaky pipes. To rebuild the national water system >>>> would take hundreds of billions if not over $1 trillion. Congress can
    easily allow the formation of a public-private partnership and guarantee >>>> the bonds so the Federal Reserve could buy them. Cities could access
    those bonds and raise the cost of water by 1% or so to pay for the
    bonds. Consumer water bills should still drop since we would be saving >>>> the lost water.

    Everyone knows this. Congress does nothing. The same could be done with >>>> electric power. A smart grid could pay for itself even with debt costs. >>>> And consumer power prices would likely go down. I could go on and on.

    But the debt we are accumulating today is not productive in that way. We >>>> use it to finance current expenditures like Medicare and Social
    Security. Necessary? Absolutely. But not the economic definition of
    productive debt.

    Problems arise when debt becomes excessive, relative to the output it
    will produce. The cost of repaying it diverts capital from other uses, >>>> leaving less capital available for productive investment. You start
    needing more debt to generate the same amount of production. Or, said
    another way, each additional dollar of debt produces less benefit.

    Debt service comes from taxation and even more borrowing (which is the >>>> definition of a Ponzi scheme), which leaves businesses and families with >>>> less money to spend on other things. This results in lower economic
    growth, more inflation, and higher interest rates.

    Why is it a trap? HererCOs where I have to get political.

    Fiscal Futility

    To those on the conservative side, the problem is simple. We have
    excessively high taxes and debt because the government spends too much. >>>>
    ThatrCOs easy to say but gets a lot more difficult when you talk specifics >>>> rCo particularly if you are a member of Congress who must answer to
    voters. Exactly which government spending would you like to cut? What
    programs, departments, and agencies would you eliminate? Every dollar
    the government spends has a constituency rCo people who benefit from it >>>> and will fight to preserve it.

    Large amounts of spending are essentially on autopilot: Social Security, >>>> Medicare, assorted social programs, interest on the debt. These
    rCLmandatoryrCY expenditures happen automatically, no matter the amounts, >>>> without Congress acting at all. The simple fact is that this mandatory >>>> spending plus defense spending is now consuming all tax revenue before >>>> any other government services are paid for on the federal level.

    The so-called rCLdiscretionaryrCY budget that Congress votes on (defense and
    all the assorted departments and agencies) is relatively minor. You
    could cut it all in half and we would still have a serious problem.

    When Trump first entered office the US deficit as percentage of GDP was >>>> less than 5%. That pandemic-year deficit peaked at 16% of GDP, or $3.1 >>>> trillion. Fast-forward to today: the FY2025 deficit came in at $1.8
    trillion rCo 5.9% of GDP, well below the pandemic peak but still about 55% >>>> above the 50-year historical average of 3.8% of GDP. And itrCOs headed the >>>> wrong way again. The CBOrCOs latest FY2026 estimate is $2.1 trillion, up >>>> from $1.9 trillion projected back in February, after the Supreme Court >>>> struck down the IEEPA tariffs in February 2026 and blew a roughly $200 >>>> billion hole in expected tariff revenue. Whoever is in the White House, >>>> the deficit keeps landing in roughly the same trap.

    Sad to say, government spending just keeps growing no matter which party >>>> is in power. We have crossed a form of political Rubicon where past
    performance is not indicative of future results. The few serious fiscal >>>> conservatives are now gone after finding the Republican Party under
    Trump spends differently than Democrats would, but has no desire to
    spend less.

    And thatrCOs the real problem: Voters like all this spending. They differ >>>> on priorities, but no one really wants to balance the budget. There is >>>> no desire to make the sacrifices and endure the pain it would take to
    change the course we are on. So, it wonrCOt change, and debt will keep >>>> piling up.

    Jaws of the Trap

    Debt, as I have said many times, is future consumption pulled forward in >>>> time. It lets us consume more today by consuming less in the future.
    There is a school of thought which says this doesnrCOt matter because we >>>> can always just keep pushing the due date further out. I disagree, and >>>> Lacy HuntrCOs research explains why.

    While debt can be a problem, private debt is also critical to economic >>>> growth. It finances innovation and adds to the economyrCOs productive
    capacity. Excessive government debt diverts resources away from
    investment, without which growth slows to a crawl. Lacy proves this
    mathematically but really, all you have to do is look at GDP growth
    around the world since 2008. Europe, Japan, and the US have all
    struggled to maintain positive growth. It was only a matter of time
    until something pushed us all underwater. The pandemic did it. By 2026 >>>> itrCOs a different pressure doing the pushing rCo elevated-for-longer
    interest costs and a wall of AI-driven capital spending are testing the >>>> same limit from the other direction.

    All that being said, this can continue far longer than most people
    think. Japan is now at 248.7% (2025) of debt to GDP. Eurozone debt is
    about 87.8% (2025), but that understates the true situation in most
    countries. The US, on the same gross-debt basis, was at 122.6% in early >>>> 2026. Europe and Japan both have low or nonexistent GDP growth. The
    explosion of US debt means the US will soon join them. The answer from >>>> almost every economist of any stripe about how to fix the debt problem >>>> is to rCLgrow our way out of it.rCY The problem is we have passed the point
    of no return.

    We canrCOt stop growing debt. That would bring down the system in a true >>>> greater-than-the-Great Depression crash. What do you cut? Social
    Security? Medicare? Military pensions? Education? Interest payments on >>>> the debt? The State Department? The only way to maintain that spending >>>> is to keep adding debt, which sends us further into the debt trap.

    Anomalies in Paradise

    At some point, this will simply stop working. That moment is when the
    world will face what I first called The Great Reset over a decade ago. I >>>> am often asked exactly when it will happen. I typically demur as taking >>>> a date is tricky. But I think we can narrow it down.

    Right now, the Social Security Administration says that Social Security >>>> will have to be cut by roughly 22% at some point in 2033. 10 years ago >>>> they said 2034. Without some major changes in the economy, that will
    probably slip to 2032. It will be an election year and that will become >>>> the major topic.

    We are now at $39.9 trillion of US [federal] debt. Interest on the debt >>>> is $1.1 trillion, at an interest rate of a little under 3%. That rate is >>>> obviously rising. Deficits are climbing over $2 trillion per year. By
    2031, the debt will be over $50 trillion. Interest costs will run
    anywhere from an optimistically estimated low of $1.5 trillion to over >>>> $2 trillion. ThatrCOs assuming no recession.

    We are not going to cut Social Security for the vast majority of
    recipients. The compromise will likely be some combination of raising
    the age of benefits, means testing and increasing Social Security taxes. >>>> But that doesnrCOt solve the rest of the deficit problem. Somewhere around >>>> that time the bond markets will finally say, rCLEnough, already!rCY Congress
    will be forced

    by markets to act.

    Spoiler alert: We will need to completely revamp our tax code, with a
    greater percentage of GDP going to taxes than any of us want. But werCOll >>>> have to collect it differently and not destroy incentives as Europe and >>>> Japan have done. Sadly, I donrCOt expect a willingness to do that, at
    least political willingness, until we are already in the middle of a
    deep crisis. The bad news is we will get one and maybe change some things. >>>>
    We built our dreams on excessive debt. Now we canrCOt go on together.
    WerCOre caught in a trap. We canrCOt walk out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>>
    And if you raise taxes, you lose the vote?
    I don't understand economics so can't say if this is true or not, but
    This was an article in the Globe&Mail

    The United States is headed for a fiscal cliff
    Andrew Coyne
    Published August 12, 2026

    In the time it takes you to read this column, the United States will add >>> another US$20-million to its national debt. By the end of the day, it will be
    nearly US$9-billion more than it was yesterday; in a week, US$60-billion, more
    than the government of Canada borrows in a year.

    The annual U.S. federal budget deficit is now running at close to
    US$2-trillion: nearly 6 per cent of GDP, and headed for 9 per cent or more by
    2036, assuming current tax and spending policies continue. The total national
    debt, at nearly US$40-trillion, now exceeds 120 per cent of GDP.

    Of course, some of that includes money the federal government owes itself: >>> U.S. Treasury securities purchased by the Social Security Trust Fund out of >>> the surpluses it racked up in years past. The Congressional Budget Office >>> calculates that, net of these holdings, the national debt amounts to rCLonlyrCY
    US$32-trillion, or just over 100 per cent of GDP, though that, too, is
    projected to grow rCo to nearly 140 per cent by 2036, 175 per cent by 2056. >>>
    However, Social Security is now rapidly burning through its reserves, the >>> surpluses having long since turned to deficits. By 2032, they are expected to
    run out. At that point, barring major change, the U.S. government will have to
    meet its Social Security obligations out of current taxes. And since those >>> taxes are already more than claimed by other obligations, that means the >>> government will have to go even further into debt to cover the difference: >>> roughly another 3 per cent of GDP annually, by 2056.

    The Social Security Board of Trustees calculates the present value of the >>> unfunded liability in Social Security over the next 75 years at roughly
    US$29-trillion.

    Global debt hits record of near US$353-trillion, with signs of investors >>> moving away from the U.S.

    Add it up, and thatrCOs close to US$70-trillion in debt. But thatrCOs not all.
    Including the unfunded liabilities in Medicare (what the U.S. calls their >>> system of public health care for the poor and the elderly) would add about >>> US$60-trillion to the total; the pension plan for federal government
    employees, civilian and military, roughly US$3-trillion, plus another
    US$9-trillion and change in unfunded health benefits for those same employees.

    Throw in state and local government debts of about US$3.7-trillion, and the >>> net unfunded liabilities in their pension plans, at a measly US$700-billion,
    and you get something approaching the consolidated debt of the U.S. public >>> sector: on the order of US$146-trillion, more than four times their GDP. >>>
    Of late, the people who buy U.S. debt have begun to notice. The yield on >>> 30-year U.S. Treasuries, which fell through 40 years of disinflation after the
    early 1980s, has lately been rising. It now stands at more than 5.2 per cent,
    the highest it has been since 2004.

    Some of that is real rCo all those government bonds competing for buyers with
    other bonds, from other issuers rCo and some of it is a premium for expected
    higher inflation, itself related to all that debt. At some point, market >>> participants are betting, the U.S. may try to inflate its way out of its >>> debts, paying back its lenders in devalued dollars. The interest rate they >>> require to hold U.S. debt adjusts accordingly, to cover themselves against >>> this risk.

    Either way, itrCOs all kinds of trouble. The higher the interest rate on its
    debt, the more the U.S. government will have to pay its lenders, and the >>> greater its debts will grow. Interest costs on U.S. government debt currently
    amount to about 3.3 per cent of GDP. They are projected to be nearly three >>> times that much, relative to GDP, in 30 years.

    But that assumes the average interest rate on U.S. debt, now at 3.4 per cent
    all maturities combined, rises only to 4.2 per cent. Were it to rise instead
    to, say, 5.2 per cent, the interest-to-GDP ratio rises to 15 per cent. At an
    average interest rate of 6.2 per cent rCo a rate more commensurate with the size
    of U.S. liabilities rCo it hits 22.4 per cent.

    Even at 10 per cent of GDP rCo the rCLrosyrCY scenario rCo interest costs would be
    eating up more than half of all federal revenues. (For comparison, at the >>> height of CanadarCOs debt woes, interest costs consumed 36 per cent of federal
    revenues.) At higher interest rates rCo well, itrCOs just too horrible to even
    contemplate.

    The U.S. is heading straight for a fiscal cliff. And at its helm is President
    who proposes to spend even more, and who demands the Federal
    Reserve, in the face of rising prices, cut interest rates. It is all going to
    end in an ocean of tears.

    That's pretty much the same conclusion, which I share.

    It's fixable, if we had a congress & president who were tough enough to
    deal in reality. But we don't.

    That debt is never getting paid back. It will be inflated away as much
    as they can get away with, but even that won't be enough to balance the
    books.

    You think that's bad? What will happen when a large portion of the
    people who currently believe in the system stop believing?

    Coyne says all this doom is predicted - "baring major change"
    Revolution?

    As someone once said, Men and nations behave wisely when they have
    exhausted all other resources.

    If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.

    How long can an unsustainable situation continue? Often it's a lot
    longer than most expect. Other times, things seem stable from the
    outside even as the load bearing supports rot away unseen.

    Events often don't play out as expected and when things get really bad
    it tends to clarify one's outlook. That's when an opening arises that
    allows a strong leader to take the helm who's willing and able to do
    what needs to be done. Examples in the US include Abraham Lincoln and
    Franklin Roosevelt. There are plenty of other examples through history
    who aren't as positive.

    Sometimes strong and wise men aren't available - or are eliminated
    before they can arise - and eventually the system fails. Then it either reboots peacefully or there's revolution.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 12:53:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/15/2026 3:40 PM, Dude wrote:
    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the tax base.

    As your car is sliding off the road because you took the turn too fast,
    the obvious solution is to accelerate as you turn the wheel into the
    skid. The problem arises when you run out of road.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 17:17:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt? >>
    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth. >>> We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it >> will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked
    down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't
    say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland)
    are doing very well economically. They rank among the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt healthcare
    and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market capitalism with high levels
    of private ownership and robust, tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, where
    prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined by supply
    and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, aiming
    for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which encourages innovation
    and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 17:31:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Aug 16, 2026 at 1:17:51rC>PM EDT, "Dude" <user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt? >>>>
    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it >>>>
    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth. >>>>> We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it >>>> will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked >>>> down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't >>>> say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland)
    are doing very well economically. They rank among the wealthiest nations >>> globally by GDP per capita, combining free-market capitalism with strong >>> social safety netsrCoa system known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt healthcare
    and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market capitalism with high levels
    of private ownership and robust, tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined by supply
    and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, aiming
    for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which encourages innovation
    and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    Hope he gets it. - Nordic countries - Not communist!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 10:43:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off your debt? >>>>
    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can forgive it >>>>
    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate economic growth. >>>>> We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier said
    than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been doing) it >>>> will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many cans getting kicked >>>> down the road - something duds like u are fantastic at doing if i don't >>>> say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland)
    are doing very well economically. They rank among the wealthiest nations >>> globally by GDP per capita, combining free-market capitalism with strong >>> social safety netsrCoa system known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt healthcare
    and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market capitalism with high levels
    of private ownership and robust, tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined by supply
    and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, aiming
    for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which encourages innovation
    and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, no idea why
    ur deciding to change ur story now
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Creon@creon@creon.earth to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 18:29:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off
    your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier
    said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been
    doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system
    known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.
    --
    -c System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.0-rc7 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "Close your eyes and press escape three times."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 11:33:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off
    your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier
    said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been
    doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system
    known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market
    function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Creon@creon@creon.earth to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 18:48:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off
    your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier >>>>>> said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been
    doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends. >>>>>
    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system
    known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market
    function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire
    services?

    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.
    --
    -c System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.0-rc7 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "This screen intentionally left blank."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 12:08:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 11:48 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off >>>>>>>>> your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier >>>>>>>> said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been >>>>>>>> doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends. >>>>>>>
    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system >>>>>>> known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market
    function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire services?

    as an anarcho-anarchist i don't consider being called a commie an
    insult, but i'm not a marxist

    and yes i consider the state to own the means of production for most
    emergency services, as they certainly aren't privately controlled


    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.


    bro u act like ur part of this sub, but u somehow don't know that
    wilson's the megatard who wants to replace all govt with privatized
    services without public accountability, not me EfOa
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 17:39:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/2026 3:08 PM, dart200 wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:48 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact >>>>>> without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, >>>>>> aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market >>>>>> function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, >>>>> no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about:-a social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.

    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire
    services?

    as an anarcho-anarchist i don't consider being called a commie an
    insult, but i'm not a marxist

    and yes i consider the state to own the means of production for most emergency services, as they certainly aren't privately controlled

    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.

    bro u act like ur part of this sub, but u somehow don't know that
    wilson's the megatard who wants to replace all govt with privatized
    services without public accountability, not me EfOa


    I'm open to the idea of private service providers doing most of the work
    the government does not, but not dogmatic about it. Public
    accountability would be critical and a genuinely open market with free
    speech might do that. Imagine orgs like Underwriters Laboratories to
    verify performance and public forums to rate them.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 21:54:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> posted:

    On 8/16/2026 3:08 PM, dart200 wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:48 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, >>>>>> where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined >>>>>> by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact >>>>>> without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, >>>>>> aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market >>>>>> function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, >>>>> no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about:-a social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.

    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire
    services?

    as an anarcho-anarchist i don't consider being called a commie an
    insult, but i'm not a marxist

    and yes i consider the state to own the means of production for most emergency services, as they certainly aren't privately controlled

    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.

    bro u act like ur part of this sub, but u somehow don't know that
    wilson's the megatard who wants to replace all govt with privatized services without public accountability, not me EfOa


    I'm open to the idea of private service providers doing most of the work
    the government does not, but not dogmatic about it. Public
    accountability would be critical and a genuinely open market with free speech might do that. Imagine orgs like Underwriters Laboratories to
    verify performance and public forums to rate them.

    Some economists argue that instead of paying off the accumulated debt,
    a stable target is keeping debt steady relative to the size of the economy (GDP). YMMV.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 21:58:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off
    your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier >>>>>> said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been
    doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends. >>>>>
    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system
    known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market
    function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    That should wrap up the the discussion about the national debt!

    Good work, Nick!
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 15:03:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 2:39 PM, Wilson wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 3:08 PM, dart200 wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:48 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, >>>>>>> where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined >>>>>>> by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact >>>>>>> without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, >>>>>>> aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market >>>>>>> function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, >>>>>> no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about:-a social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.

    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire
    services?

    as an anarcho-anarchist i don't consider being called a commie an
    insult, but i'm not a marxist

    and yes i consider the state to own the means of production for most
    emergency services, as they certainly aren't privately controlled

    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.

    bro u act like ur part of this sub, but u somehow don't know that
    wilson's the megatard who wants to replace all govt with privatized
    services without public accountability, not me EfOa


    I'm open to the idea of private service providers doing most of the work
    the government does not, but not dogmatic about it. Public
    accountability would be critical and a genuinely open market with free

    open markets can't even begin to exist until you end the tariffs and
    open the borders u moron

    speech might do that. Imagine orgs like Underwriters Laboratories to
    verify performance and public forums to rate them.

    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From user7160@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 22:04:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    This message was cancelled from within Thunderbird.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 22:43:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/2026 3:40 PM, Dude wrote:
    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the
    tax base.

    As your car is sliding off the road because you took the turn too fast,
    the obvious solution is to accelerate as you turn the wheel into the
    skid. The problem arises when you run out of road.

    The US needs to broaden the tax base by eliminating or scaling back popular itemized tax deductions, exclusions, and loopholes. Plus, implement a broad-based value-added sales tax (VAT).

    Note: A value-added tax (VAT) is an indirect consumption tax charged on goods and services. Used by more than 170 countries worldwide, such as throughout the European Union. It differs fundamentally from standard retail sales
    taxes used in the U.S.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 23:53:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 16/08/2026 23:43, Dude wrote:

    Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/2026 3:40 PM, Dude wrote:
    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the
    tax base.

    As your car is sliding off the road because you took the turn too fast,
    the obvious solution is to accelerate as you turn the wheel into the
    skid. The problem arises when you run out of road.

    The US needs to broaden the tax base by eliminating or scaling back popular itemized tax deductions, exclusions, and loopholes. Plus, implement a broad-based value-added sales tax (VAT).

    Ireland massively increased its tax receipts by lowering the tax rates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65343497
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 15:53:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 2:39 PM, Wilson wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 3:08 PM, dart200 wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:48 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 11:33:09 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange, >>>>>>> where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined >>>>>>> by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact >>>>>>> without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, >>>>>>> aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market >>>>>>> function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, >>>>>> no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about:-a social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.

    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    Okay, I'll bite:

    What, in your estimation, is the meaning of your term
    "healthcare production", and how is it different than police or fire
    services?

    as an anarcho-anarchist i don't consider being called a commie an
    insult, but i'm not a marxist

    and yes i consider the state to own the means of production for most
    emergency services, as they certainly aren't privately controlled

    I have more to say, but I would really like to know how you answer
    that question.

    bro u act like ur part of this sub, but u somehow don't know that
    wilson's the megatard who wants to replace all govt with privatized
    services without public accountability, not me EfOa


    I'm open to the idea of private service providers doing most of the work
    the government does not, but not dogmatic about it. Public
    accountability would be critical and a genuinely open market with free

    open markets can't even begin to exist until you end the tariffs and
    open the borders u moron

    speech might do that. Imagine orgs like Underwriters Laboratories to
    verify performance and public forums to rate them.


    lol the only reason competition to UL exists is OSHA created a
    regulatory framework for labs to compete within. capitalists again never understand how the world actually works.
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Wilson@Wilson@nowhere.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 19:09:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/2026 6:53 PM, Julian wrote:
    On 16/08/2026 23:43, Dude wrote:

    Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/2026 3:40 PM, Dude wrote:
    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-
    debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a federal >>>> budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the
    tax base.

    As your car is sliding off the road because you took the turn too fast,
    the obvious solution is to accelerate as you turn the wheel into the
    skid. The problem arises when you run out of road.

    The US needs to broaden the tax base by eliminating or scaling back
    popular
    itemized tax deductions, exclusions, and loopholes. Plus, implement a
    broad-based value-added sales tax (VAT).

    Ireland massively increased its tax receipts by lowering the tax rates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65343497

    But that's impossible!

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Sun Aug 16 16:37:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 4:09 PM, Wilson wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 6:53 PM, Julian wrote:
    On 16/08/2026 23:43, Dude wrote:

    Wilson <Wilson@nowhere.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/2026 3:40 PM, Dude wrote:
    Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> posted:
    On 15/08/2026 18:34, Wilson wrote:

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a- >>>>>>> debt-trap
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh18YXKMk3g

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal
    budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends.

    The obvious solution is to accelerate economic growth to increase the >>>>> tax base.

    As your car is sliding off the road because you took the turn too fast, >>>> the obvious solution is to accelerate as you turn the wheel into the
    skid. The problem arises when you run out of road.

    The US needs to broaden the tax base by eliminating or scaling back
    popular
    itemized tax deductions, exclusions, and loopholes. Plus, implement a
    broad-based value-added sales tax (VAT).

    Ireland massively increased its tax receipts by lowering the tax rates.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65343497

    But that's impossible!


    it's race to the bottom for funding social services, yeah!
    --
    why are we god?
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Creon@creon@creon.earth to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Mon Aug 17 01:25:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:58:33 GMT, Dude <user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off >>>>>>> your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier >>>>>> said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been >>>>>> doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many
    cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are
    fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a
    federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends. >>>>>
    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden,
    and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among
    the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system >>>>> known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud?

    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact
    without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption,
    aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market
    function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production,
    no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    That should wrap up the the discussion about the national debt!

    Good work, Nick!

    I didn't know he's a red-baiting phobe, to boot!
    --
    -c System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.0-rc7 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "Some nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men"
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.messianic on Sun Aug 16 19:44:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 8/16/26 6:25 PM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 21:58:33 GMT, Dude <user2891@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/16/26 11:29 AM, Creon wrote:
    At Sun, 16 Aug 2026 10:43:01 -0700, dart200
    <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 10:17 AM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    On 8/15/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:

    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

    <snip>
    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/caught-in-a-debt-trap

    rich people could just forgive it if they wanted ...

    Rich people are not in debt - why would they want to pay off >>>>>>>>>> your debt?

    those in debt do not forgive the debt moron...

    and it's the rich people who hold the debt, so ofc they can
    forgive it

    not that u know what forgiveness is dud


    and all that would change is the perception of wealth,

    You are projecting - you're the rich kid in debt.

    > not actual wealth

    "Your health is your greatest wealth." - Adelle Davis

    > #god

    The obvious solution to the debt crises is to accelerate
    economic growth. We studied this in school - 5th grade.

    unfortunately deciding to "just accelerate growth" is far easier >>>>>>>>> said than done

    and we if we grow in an unsustainable manner (which we've been >>>>>>>>> doing) it will obviously not be sustainable, leading to many >>>>>>>>> cans getting kicked down the road - something duds like u are >>>>>>>>> fantastic at doing if i don't say ...

    It works in Scandinavia.

    The U.S. can pay down its national debt today only by running a >>>>>>>> federal budget surplusrCotaking in more tax revenue than it spends. >>>>>>>>
    All Scandinavian and Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, >>>>>>>> and Finland) are doing very well economically. They rank among >>>>>>>> the wealthiest nations globally by GDP per capita, combining
    free-market capitalism with strong social safety netsrCoa system >>>>>>>> known as the Nordic Model. YMMV.

    bruh those countries are basically communist with their govt
    healthcare and what-have-you... what are you suggesting here dud? >>>>>>>
    We studied this in school:

    The Nordic system is a mixed economy, combining capitalism and
    socialism.

    The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
    Sweden) are capitalist economies that combine free-market
    capitalism with high levels of private ownership and robust,
    tax-funded welfare states.

    Why that system works.

    A free market is an economic system based on voluntary exchange,
    where prices, wages, and the distribution of goods are determined
    by supply and demand.

    In a pure free market, private individuals and businesses interact >>>>>> without government intervention, regulation, or subsidies.

    Prices serve as signals that determine production and consumption, >>>>>> aiming for an efficient allocation of resources.

    Ownership of private property is respected and essential for market >>>>>> function. Businesses compete on a level playing field, which
    encourages innovation and efficiency.

    Hope this helps.

    well i learned from the cons around here that this is actually
    communism because the state owns the means of healthcare production, >>>>> no idea why ur deciding to change ur story now

    That is a necessity, similar to the fire dept. and the police dept.

    Two things you apparently don't know about: social necessities
    and natural monopolies.

    Reap it, mofo.


    wow creon's a faggot and a commie??? name a more iconic duo!

    That should wrap up the the discussion about the national debt!

    Good work, Nick!

    I didn't know he's a red-baiting phobe, to boot!


    as an anarchist i bait everyone who's a halfwit tard
    --
    hi, i'm nick!
    let's end war EfOa

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2