• False Bible doctrines: At death, all the righteous go to Heaven

    From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet on Thu Aug 6 17:43:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible.prophecy

    False Bible doctrines: At death, all the righteous go to Heaven.

    Moses and Abraham and all other righteous OT persons DID NOT go to
    Heaven. We have Jesus' word on this. It has been around 400 years
    since the OT ended and Jesus coming to earth. Jesus said:

    -- Revised Standard
    John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from
    heaven, the Son of man.

    Thus NO person in the OT made it to Heaven. Not one. But in the NT a
    lot of persons made it to Heaven, such as the Apostle Paul and other
    faithful Christians. (Heb 11:12)

    These are the Bible's TRUE teachings. Sadly, most churches don't teach
    those Bible truisms.

    More Bible truisms to come.

    The earth is warming up.
    What the Bible says.
    Go to: jw.org (8/6/2026)
    zebrabible@proton.me
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  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet on Thu Aug 6 17:54:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible.prophecy

    More Satan's Witnesses lies. See

    <4eebd1e7-9c7f-45f0-bfb5-88fe7f2ba3ea@christrose.news>

    The Heavenly State of Old Testament Saints and the True Meaning of John 3:13

    I. Old Testament Believers Entered God's Heavenly Presence

    1. 2 Kings 2:11 rCo "And as they still went on and talked,
    behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two
    of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2
    Kings 2:11 ESV)

    The Bible explicitly states that Elijah went directly up into heaven. To assert that no Old Testament person entered heaven directly contradicts
    the plain text of Scripture.

    2. Genesis 5:24 rCo "Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God
    took him." (Genesis 5:24 ESV) Hebrews 11:5 rCo "By faith Enoch
    was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not
    found, because God had taken him." (Hebrews 11:5 ESV)

    Enoch was taken directly by God into His presence without experiencing physical death. Scripture plainly records that God took him up.



    3. Matthew 17:3 rCo "And behold, there appeared to them Moses and
    Elijah, talking with him." (Matthew 17:3 ESV) Luke 9:30rCo31 rCo
    "And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah,
    who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was
    about to accomplish at Jerusalem." (Luke 9:30rCo31 ESV)

    Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration
    "in glory." Moses could not appear in heavenly glory if he were
    completely excluded from God's presence.

    4. Matthew 8:11 rCo "I tell you, many will come from east and west
    and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the
    kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 8:11 ESV)

    Jesus Himself declares that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the kingdom
    of heaven, and that believers will recline at table with them.


    5. Luke 20:37rCo38 rCo "But that the dead are raised, even Moses
    showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord
    the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
    Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live
    to him." (Luke 20:37rCo38 ESV)

    God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Abraham, Isaac, and
    Jacob are alive unto God.

    Proposition: The Scriptures explicitly affirm that Old Testament saints
    such as Elijah, Enoch, Moses, and Abraham entered into the presence and
    glory of God in heaven.

    II. The True Meaning of John 3:13

    1. John 3:11rCo13 rCo "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what
    we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not
    receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and
    you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly
    things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who
    descended from heaven, the Son of Man." (John 3:11rCo13 ESV)

    The context of John 3:13 is a discourse regarding divine revelation and authority. Jesus is responding to Nicodemus concerning who has the
    authority to reveal heavenly mysteries.


    2. Proverbs 30:4 rCo "Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who
    has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the
    waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the
    earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if you
    know?" (Proverbs 30:4 ESV)

    John 3:13 answers the ancient question posed in Proverbs 30:4. No human
    being has ascended into heaven by his own power or initiative to acquire divine knowledge and return to reveal it to men.

    3. John 1:18 rCo "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at
    the Father's side, he has made him known." (John 1:18 ESV)

    Christ alone possesses original, firsthand authority as the Son who
    descended from heaven to make God known. John 3:13 does not teach that
    the souls of Old Testament believers were denied heaven; it teaches that
    no human teacher can claim to have gone up to heaven to fetch divine wisdom.

    Proposition: John 3:13 establishes Christ's exclusive authority as the
    divine Revealer of heavenly truth; it does not deny the heavenly state
    of redeemed Old Testament believers.

    III. The Theological Unity of Salvation for Old and New Testament Believers

    1. Romans 4:3 rCo "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham
    believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.'"
    (Romans 4:3 ESV)

    Old Testament saints were saved by faith in God's promise, just as New Testament saints are saved by faith in Christ's fulfillment.

    2. Hebrews 11:13, 16 rCo "These all died in faith, not having
    received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted
    them from afar... But as it is, they desire a better country,
    that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be
    called their God, for he has prepared for them a city."
    (Hebrews 11:13, 16 ESV)

    God prepared a heavenly city for the Old Testament patriarchs who died
    in faith.

    3. Hebrews 12:22rCo23 rCo "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the
    city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to
    innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of
    the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the
    judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made
    perfect." (Hebrews 12:22rCo23 ESV)

    The "spirits of the righteous made perfect"rCowhich includes the faithful
    of former generationsrCoreside in the heavenly Jerusalem.

    Proposition: Both Old and New Testament believers are part of one
    redeemed body, cleansed by the atonement of Christ, and sharing in the
    same heavenly inheritance.
    --
    Good News rCa

    Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

    The exclusive, saving gospel states that Christ died for our sins and
    rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). All other
    gospels are counterfeit and doom people to conscious, eternal torment in
    the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36; Revelation 14:11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10-15). If you deny that Jesus is God,
    you will perish in your sins (John 8:24).

    Jesus fully satisfied our sin debt to God through His crucifixion
    (Colossians 2:14), a truth confirmed by His resurrection (Romans 1:4). Consequently, God maintains His perfect justice while pardoning
    believers (Romans 3:26) and rescuing them from imminent judgment (1 Thessalonians 1:10). This salvation is an unearned gift received through
    faith (Romans 6:23). Trust in Christ and call upon Him for your
    salvation (Romans 10:9-13):

    How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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