From Newsgroup: alt.bible.prophecy
========================================
Sat, 1 Aug 2026 23:37:13 -0700,
<tABbS.4400$
NR94.2739@fx11.iad>
Noah Wang <
noah-wang45@gmx.com> wrote: ========================================
It is those who come out of the church who are the apostates:
rCLChildren, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is
the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if
they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went
out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.rCY (1 John 2:18rCo19, ESV)
https://zionintravail.com/
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and
is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly
furnished unto all good works.
That doesn't teach that believers should flee from the church. The
believers ARE the church:
The Definition and Nature of the Church
(1) 1 Corinthians 12:27rCo"Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it." (1 Corinthians 12:27 ESV)
"The Body Of Christ." The church is not an earthly, corrupt organization
that a Christian can walk away from; it is the spiritual body of Jesus
Christ Himself. Because every true believer is a member of this body, it
is impossible to "come out" of the church without attempting to separate oneself from Christ.
(2) 1 Peter 2:9rCo"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous
light." (1 Peter 2:9 ESV)
"Who Called You Out." The word translated "church" in the New Testament
is "ekklesia," which literally means "the called-out" or "called
together out of the world" assembly." The church consists of those whom
God has already called out of the world and into His light. Therefore,
to tell believers to "come out" of the church is a contradiction in
terms, as the church itself is the body of those who have been called out.
Proposition: The church is the spiritual body of Christ, made up of all believers whom God has called out of the world; therefore, a true
believer cannot "come out" of the church of God. To "come out" of the
church then, would mean to become unsaved and no longer be a member of
the body of Christ.
Daniel 12:9-10 KJV: And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified,
and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of
the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
idem.
Ecclesiastes 8:5 KJV: Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.
idem.
Proverbs 12:15 KJV: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he
that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
idem.
Proverbs 11:4 KJV: Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
idem.
Psalm 119:24 KJV: Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.
This doesn't mean "Harold Camping". This means God's word is our
counselor. However, we are also told from Scripture:
rCLAnd he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds
and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building
up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and
of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of
the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be
children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind
of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.rCY (Ephesians 4:11rCo14, ESV)
God has given pastors and teachers to build the church up in the
knowledge of Christ.
Isaiah 4:1 KJV: And in that day seven [100 %] women [those saved in the local churches make up the bride of Christ] shall take hold of one man ["Son of man," Christ], saying, We will eat our own bread["I am the
bread of life:..." (John 6:35), "And the Word was made flesh" (John
1:14)], and wear our own apparel [not the "robe of righteousness" Isaiah 61:10] only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
idem. It's not clear to me what you think this verse is supporting.
Revelation 18:2 KJV: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon [persecuted church] the great is fallen, is fallen, and is
become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and
a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Revelation 1:19 gives a general outline of the book. John is told to
write down the "things which thou hast seen" (vision of the glorified
Christ), the "things which are" (letters to the churches), and the
"things which shall be hereafter" (Tribulation, millennial kingdom,
Great White Throne judgment, New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem). This
shows the different time periods the prophecy deals with.
The "things which are" pertains to the church directly (Revelation 1-3).
The word "church" occurs over 19 times in the "things which are". It
does not appear even once during the events of the Tribulation, until
chapter 22. Nowhere does the Bible say the "church" is present during
the Tribulation described in Revelation 5-20.
A door opens in heaven, and John is told to "Come up here..." before he
is allowed to see the "things which shall be hereafter". When he goes up
into heaven, he sees 24 elders. This means the church is in heaven
during the things which shall be hereafter.
Revelation 18:2 speaks of "the things which shall be herafter". If "the
things which are" is the church age, then the "things which shall be hereafter" pertains to events which come after the church era.
The Tribulation is the time of "Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah 30:7), which
will test Israel and prepare her for the return of Christ. In addition
to the 144,000 of the children of the tribes of "Israel", Revelation 7
also includes a myriad of Gentile who are not "Israel" who will be saved
out of the Tribulation. If anyone who is saved out of the Tribulation is "Israel", and "Israel" meant all true believers, there would be no point
in mentioning the additional people from every tribe and tongue and
nation who are also saved.
Revelation 3:10 says the tribulation pertains to the "inhabitants of the earth". This implies there will be a group who are not the inhabitants
of the earth (e.g. the raptured church) during the events of the
Tribulation. Yet none of the Tribulation believers are referred to as
the "Church" (Revelation 7).
This is consistent with the understanding that the Church will be caught
up before the events of the Tribulation. The Babylon which is judged in Revelation 17-18 is the false religion that pervades the political and economic systems as well, under the antichrist, beast, and false
prophet. The church is NOT Israel, nor is it Babylon, the beast, or the
false prophet.
Your theology seeks to confuse the church, Israel, and Babylon. Nowhere
does the Bible ever tell believers to come out of the church. The church
is the group of believers who are called out of the world and Babylon.
Revelation 18:4 KJV: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come
out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
This is calling Tribulation believers out of the false, antichrist beast-worship system, not believers out of the church. Observe:
rCLLet us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he
who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another
to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit
of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the
Day drawing near.rCY (Hebrews 10:23rCo25, ESV)
1 Peter 4:17 KJV:
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and
if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
You isolate that verse from the context which explains it:
rCLYet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let
him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at
the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome
for those who do not obey the gospel of God?rCY (1 Peter 4:16rCo17, ESV)
The "judgment" here is talking about the suffering we endure as a
Christian, not God condemning or calling people to come out of the church.
2 Thessalonians 2:11,12 KJV: And for this cause God shall send them
strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Again, this refers to those who "believed not the truth", not the
church. The actual church consists of only the born-again believers. The
weeds and tares are not actually the "church". If someone doesn't
believe the gospel, they are not the "church". You seek to conflate unbelievers with believers.
Isaiah 28:7 KJV: But they also have erred through wine, and through
strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the
way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
The qualification for elders and deacons is given in 1 Timothy 3 and
Titus. If they don't meet that standard, then you don't appoint them as
elders or deacons.
The New Testament instruction is to avoid doctrinal error and those who promote it, not to abandon the church as God's institution. If the
leadership is bad, you simply go to a local church that proclaims the
truth. I do not go to churches that promote doctrinal error. Once, I was attending a local church. They got a new pastor who taught doctrine I
did not agree was Biblically sound. I left that assembly, and went to a different one. You don't stop assembling with believers because you can
point to doctrinal error in one local assembly. Not all local assemblies promote doctrinal error, and nowhere does God indicate in the Bible that
the believer is to come out of the church. The church IS ultimately the
true believers in Christ, not the building or location where some
"believers" assemble.
Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV:
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that
is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Where does this passage or any other in the entire bible ever say
anything instruction the church (believers in Christ) to come out from
the church (other believers in Christ)? Nowhere. The church is the group
of believers who are called together out of the world, not to come out
from the church. My local church does not promote apostasy, but fidelity
to the word of God.
It is those who come out of the church are the apostates:
rCLChildren, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is
the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if
they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went
out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.rCY (1 John 2:18rCo19, ESV)
2 Corinthians 11:15 KJV: Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall
be according to their works.
Jeremiah 7:4 KJV: 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple [church/congregation] of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of
the Lord, are these.
1 Thessalonians 2:14 KJV:
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in
Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of
your own countrymen.
Matthew 24:15-16 KJV:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand): Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24:14 KJV:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
idem. These passages were add4ressed above already. None of them says
come out of the church. You conflate Israel, the church, and Babylon.
--
Good News rCa
Jesus took our place on the cross to settle our debt with God
(Colossians 2:14), and God confirmed the acceptance of this payment by
raising Him from death (Romans 1:4). Thus, God remains holy while
justifying the ungodly (Romans 3:26) and shielding them from future
wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). This blessing is a free gift given to
those who believe (Romans 6:23). Place your confidence in Christ and
call on Him for salvation (Romans 10:9-13):
How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2