From Newsgroup: alt.bible

The Bible's answer to a lost opposer.

He wrote:

"You're in no better condition than the atheist, since you deny Jesus
is God and promote a false gospel that claims your own death atones
for your sins and that you can escape conscious eternal torment even
while rejecting Christ."

Let's see if he is right.

***"You're in no better condition than the atheist, since you deny
Jesus is God".

"... for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28; KJV)

"...and the head of Christ is God." (1 Cor 11:3; KJV)

"No man hath seen God at any time...." (1 John 4:12; KJV)

[Jesus] "...the firstborn of every creature:" (Col 1:15; KJV)
[brackets mine]

"...that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."
(Luke 1:35; NKJV)

"...because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:36; KJV)



***"and promote a false gospel that claims your own death atones for
your sins"

"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.'' (Gen 2:17;
NKJV)

"...For the wages of sin is death". (Ro 6:23; KJV)

"For he who has died has been freed from sin." (Ro 6:7; NKJV)

"...that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;" (1 Cor
15:3; KJV)

##both Scriptures apply: Ro 6:7 and 1 Cor 15:3. (Just ask for more
info)



***"and that you can escape conscious eternal torment even while
rejecting Christ."

"The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence".
(Ps 115:17; NKJV)

"...in that very day his thoughts perish." (Ps 146:4; KJV)

--Lake of Fire is symbolic. See what is tossed in it:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:14; KJV)

"that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11; KJV)
"Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."". (John 11:14;
NKJV)

" For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep" (1
Cor 11:30; NKJV)

"Can You Trust the Bible?
Find out for yourself with our
free interactive Bible course."
Go to: jw.org (9/29/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me

Help put the fire out in Hellfire.
God is not a sadist but a God of love. (1 John 4:8)

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Jesus is God

1. Divine Names And Direct Statements Of Deity

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1; ESV)

"Thomas answered him, 'My Lord and my God!'" (John 20:28; ESV)

"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." (Romans 9:5; ESV)

"Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:13; ESV)

"But of the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.'" (Hebrews 1:8; ESV)

Proposition: The Scriptures directly call Jesus Christ God.

2. Distinctively Divine Attributes Ascribed To Christ

"He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17; ESV)

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8; ESV)

"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." (Matthew 18:20; ESV)

"Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God." (John 16:30; ESV)

"For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." (Colossians 2:9; ESV)

Proposition: Eternity, immutability, omnipresence, and omniscience belong strictly to God, yet the Scriptures explicitly ascribe every one of these attributes to Jesus Christ.

3. Divine Worship Given To And Accepted By Christ

"And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'" (Hebrews 1:6; ESV)

"And behold, Jesus met them and said, 'Greetings!' And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him." (Matthew 28:9; ESV)

"Then Jesus said to him, 'Be gone, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'" (Matthew 4:10; ESV)

"So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:10-11; ESV)

Proposition: Scripture permits worship to God alone; yet angels and men are commanded to worship Christ, and Christ accepted this worship without rebuke.

4. The Proper Understanding Of Passages Showing Subordination

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." (Philippians 2:5-7; ESV)

"For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross." (Colossians 1:19-20; ESV)

Proposition: Passages stating the Father is greater than the Son or head of Christ refer to the voluntary submission and functional subordination assumed by the Son in His earthly incarnation, not an inequality of eternal nature or divine essence.

By this Satan's Witness heretic, women could not be human beings or children of God since they function in a role of submission.

The Atonement For Sin

1. Man Cannot Atone For His Own Sin By Physical Death

"Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life, for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice." (Psalm 49:7-8; ESV)

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Hebrews 9:22; ESV)

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." (Leviticus 17:11; ESV)

Proposition: Physical death is the penal consequence of guilt, not a sacrificial payment that cleanses or removes guilt; only blood given on the altar atones.

2. Christ Alone Made The Propitiation For Sin

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21; ESV)

"He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2; ESV)

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." (1 Peter 2:24; ESV)

Proposition: Atonement is accomplished entirely by the finished, substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus Christ, never by the death of the sinner.

3. The True Meaning Of Romans Chapter 6 Verse 7

"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin." (Romans 6:6-7; ESV)

"Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him." (Romans 6:8; ESV)

Proposition: Everything in Romans 6 speaks about the current benefits of a believer through a faith union to Christ's death and resurrection, not through the future death of the unbeliever who does not benefit from Christ's death and resurrection.

Romans chapter 6 verse 7 speaks of spiritual death to the mastery and legal enslavement of sin through vital union with Christ's crucifixion, not the judicial payoff of one's guilt through the sinner's grave.

Conscious Eternal Punishment Versus Annihilation

1. The Conscious Existence Of The Soul In Physical Death

"The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'" (Luke 16:22-24; ESV)

"And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (Luke 23:43; ESV)

"Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:8; ESV)

Proposition: Physical death terminates earthly labor and bodily consciousness toward this world, but the soul remains awake, conscious, and experiencing either torment or comfort immediately upon departure from the body.

2. The Lake Of Fire Is Conscious Eternal Torment

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:10; ESV)

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15; ESV)

"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:11; ESV)

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46; ESV)

Proposition: The Lake of Fire is not total extinction or cessation of being; the beast and false prophet remain there for a thousand years still unconsumed, and the punishment of the wicked is described as eternal, ongoing, day-and-night conscious torment identical in duration to the eternal life of the righteous.
--
Jesus is God

christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

christrose.news/salvation

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Tue, 29 Sep 2026 20:23:40 -0400,
<9hgoblhbc0sd55442gd04ssllqensef72e@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================

"For he who has died has been freed from sin." (Ro 6:7; NKJV)

This shows how Satan's Witnesses seek to confuse and contradict
Scripture. NOTHING in Romans 6 says or indicates that it's talking to unbelievers about how they can pay off their sin debt to God in the
future, just by dying physically. Romans 6 was written to believers to
tell them how to be free from the power of sin in their daily living
through faith in Christ. This shows how they try to take something with similarities and twist it till it flatly contradicts the plainly stated intention.

Observe

The Nature Of The Death Mentioned In Romans 6

(1) Romans 6:3-4rCo"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized
into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore
with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised
from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness
of life." (Romans 6:3-4 ESV)

This death is a baptism "into Christ Jesus." It is not the natural end
of physical life that every man experiences, but a specific spiritual
union. The result of this death is "newness of life," which is a present spiritual reality for the believer, not a post-mortem state for the unbeliever.

Bible: "baptized into Christ"
Satan's Witness Lie: "physical expiration"

(2) Romans 6:5rCo"For if we have been united with him in a death like his,
we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his."
(Romans 6:5 ESV)

This death is described as being "united with him." It is a shared
experience with Christ. Those who claim physical death alone frees a man
from sin's penalty ignore that this passage requires a union with the
person of Jesus Christ.

Bible: "united with him"
Lie: "united with the grave"

(3) Romans 6:6rCo"We know that our old self was crucified with him in
order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would
no longer be enslaved to sin." (Romans 6:6 ESV)

The "death" here is defined as the "old self" being "crucified with
him." The purpose is the cessation of slavery to sin in the present
life. Physical death does not "crucify the old self" with Christ; faith
in the gospel does.

Bible: "crucified with him"
Lie: "died in a hospital or bed"

(4) Romans 6:7-8rCo"For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now
if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with
him." (Romans 6:7-8 ESV)

While verse 7 states a general principle that death ends legal
obligations, verse 8 immediately qualifies this for the Christian
context: "if we have died with Christ." The freedom from sin described
in this chapter is predicated entirely upon being "with Christ."

Bible: "died with Christ"
Lie: "died alone in sin"

(5) Romans 6:11rCo"So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and
alive to God in Christ Jesus." (Romans 6:11 ESV)

We are commanded to "consider" or reckon ourselves dead to sin. A man
who has died physically cannot "consider" himself anything; this is an
act of the mind and heart of a living person who has placed their faith
in Jesus.

Bible: "consider yourselves dead to sin"
Lie: "be corpses in the ground"

The Purpose Of This Death Is Deliverance From Sin's Power

(1) Romans 6:12-13rCo"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies,
to make you obey their passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those
who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness." (Romans 6:12-13 ESV)

This death results in a choice of the will regarding "mortal bodies." If
the death mentioned were physical death, there would be no "mortal body"
left in which to resist sin. The passage is clearly speaking to living
people who have died to sin's authority through Christ.

Bible: "brought from death to life"
Lie: "staying dead to pay a debt"

(2) Romans 6:22-23rCo"But now that you have been set free from sin and
have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and
its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift
of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:22-23 ESV)

The "wages of sin" is deathrCothe very thing the legalist claims pays the debt. But the Bible contrasts this "wages" (what we earn) with the "free
gift" (what Christ gives). If physical death paid the debt of sin,
eternal life would be a receipt for payment, not a "free gift."

Bible: "free gift of God"
Lie: "payment through physical death"

Proposition: The death described in Romans 6 is not the physical death
of the body which all men suffer, but the spiritual crucifixion of the
old nature through union with Jesus Christ by faith. It is this union
alone that sets a person free from the slavery and penalty of sin.
--
Good News rCa

Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

To be saved, one must believe the only true gospel: Christ died for our
sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9).
Every false gospel leads individuals to conscious, eternal torment in
the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:18-19; Revelation
14:9-11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:14-15). Denying that Jesus is
God means dying in your sins (John 8:24).

The crucifixion of Christ completely satisfied the debt of our sins
toward God (Colossians 2:14), which God verified by bringing Him back to
life (Romans 1:4). As a result, God is proven just when He forgives
believers (Romans 3:26) and delivers them from the approaching wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). Eternal salvation is a free gift appropriated by
faith (Romans 6:23). If you believe in Him, call on the Lord for your deliverance (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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