From Newsgroup: alt.bible

How can a God of love (1 John 4:8) permit so much suffering?

Unless we had the Bible, we would have no idea.

God permits those things to occur at this time because of an extremely important issue raised back in Eden. God originally created man and
put him in a beautiful garden-like place that had all kinds of
delicious foods. (Ge 2:15,16) God also created man to live forever on
the earth, IF he continually obeyed. (Ge 2:17) Disobedience was the
only condition that would bring death and end eternal existence on
this earth.

When God created the earth and man, all His other living intelligent
beings, the angels, saw what He did. They observed the situation that
occurred in Eden. A rebellious angel, Satan (cowardly hiding behind a
serpent), talked to Eve and told her that God had lied and that doing
things her way could prove beneficial to her; that Eve would do better
if she decided for herself what was right and wrong. (Ge 3:3,4)

Eve took the bate, fell for it and disobeyed, and Adam later joined
her. Right then and there they rejected God and His perfect guidance,
and instead went with their own.

If God would have destroyed the rebels right then, all the other
intelligent beings that God created would never know if Satan was
right. (also none of us would be here today since we are all direct
descendants of Adam and Eve) Thus throughout all eternity there would
be doubts if God's ways are really the best ways. And intelligent
creatures at times, no doubt would forever challenge God's ways. So
much for endless peace and harmony.

God, in His wisdom and in His mercy, permitted the challenge to His
sovereignty to continue, to prove that only His ways are correct. So,
God had to settle the issue. But such an issue would take time so
Satan could not claim that God didn't let enough time elapse to prove
Satan's case. Or if God stepped in before every 'natural disaster'
(see Job below) or evil human action, Satan could claim that God is
intervening and not allowing humans to take care of such things. So at
the present, God is letting humans 'run the show'. That means that the
whole world is basically ran by Satan. Joh 12:31,

"Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world
be cast out;" (RSV)

The first human couple listened to that liar, and disobeyed God. As
God said would happen, it brought on death. But in order for a perfect
body to die without any outside help, it has to become imperfect. And
since Adam and Eve were mercifully permitted to have offspring, (as
said before, if He destroyed them right in the beginning, none of us
would be here today) we also inherited that imperfection.

Later, Satan again challenged God saying that humans would not serve
God if faced with adversity of any kind. (see Job 1:9-12; 2:4,5)

Satan has been proven to be the liar that he is. Mankind has
demonstrated over the centuries that he cannot govern himself with
complete success. Mankind is even 'destroying the earth'. (Re 11:18)

Man must follow God's guidance in order to succeed in all things. As a
prophet put it at Jer 10:23,

"I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man
to direct his steps." (NIV)

Also, certain ones of mankind have also proven Satan to be a liar,
since they have faithfully served God despite the adverse conditions
they were under.

Since the challenge to God's sovereignty is reaching its climax, soon
all the pain and suffering will cease. Never again will such things be permitted to happen. God promises this at Re 21:3,4,

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of
God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people,
and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe
every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or
crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."" (NIV)

"Free Bible Course
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Help put the fire out in Hellfire
(God is not a sadist but a God of love)
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Sat, 19 Sep 2026 09:31:35 -0400,
<c02talt02qc0nkp3qj75an82b1dnu3fqss@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================

soon
all the pain and suffering will cease. Never again will such things be permitted to happen. God promises this at Re 21:3,4,

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of
God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people,
and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe
every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or
crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."" (NIV)

That's for those who take refuge in Christ for salvation. Those who
reject God's love and the only acceptable atonement offered for their
sins in Christ's death and resurrection, will experience conscious,
eternal torment for eternity:

The claim that the second death is merely symbolic and does not involve conscious punishment contradicts the plain teaching of Scripture.
Scripture repeatedly affirms that the second death is real, final, and includes conscious punishment for the unrighteous.

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of
fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
(Revelation 20:10, ESV)

This verse directly contradicts the claim that there is no torment. The
devil, beast, and false prophet are not annihilatedrCothey are *tormented* eternally.

"And if anyonerCOs name was not found written in the book of life,
he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15, ESV)

The lake of fire is not symbolicrCoit is the final destination for the unrighteous, following the resurrection and final judgment. It is the
*second death*, and not merely symbolic or unconscious.

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into
eternal life." (Matthew 25:46, ESV)

Jesus explicitly states that the punishment is *eternal*, not temporary
or symbolic. The parallelism with rCLeternal liferCY confirms that both destinies are equally enduring and conscious.

"In a flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know
God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They
will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the
presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might," (2
Thessalonians 1:8-9, ESV)

This passage describes conscious suffering (rCLthey will sufferrCY), not extinction or symbolic meaning. Eternal destruction refers to the irreversible, conscious ruin of their existencerConot annihilation of being.

"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they
have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its
image..." (Revelation 14:11, ESV)

Torment "forever and ever" and rCLno rest, day or nightrCY cannot be reconciled with the idea of unconsciousness or nonexistence.

"Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew
10:28, ESV)

Jesus warns of hell (*Gehenna*) as a place where both body and soul are destroyedrConot annihilated in the sense of nonexistence, but ruined in conscious judgment. The use of the word "destroy" (Greek: *apollymi*)
can mean ruin, not necessarily extinction.

Moreover, divine justice is not measured by human emotional standards
but by God's holiness and righteousness:

"For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait
for him." (Isaiah 30:18, ESV)

"Righteous are you, O Lord, when I complain to you; yet I would
plead my case before you. Why does the way of the wicked
prosper?" (Jeremiah 12:1, ESV)

Human empathy does not overrule divine revelation. GodrCOs justice
includes wrath against sin and eternal punishment for unrepentant rebellion:

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
(Hebrews 10:31, ESV)

The second death is not a metaphor or symbol of unconsciousness. It is
the eternal, conscious punishment of those who reject the gospel, and Scripture bears consistent, explicit witness to that reality.
--
Good News rCa

Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

The solitary true and saving gospel is that Christ died for our sins and
rose from the grave (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). Any
modification of this gospel is false and leads to conscious, eternal
torment in the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36;
Revelation 14:11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10-15). Unless you
believe Jesus is God, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

Jesus took our place on the cross to settle our debt with God
(Colossians 2:14), and God confirmed the acceptance of this payment by
raising Him from death (Romans 1:4). Thus, God remains holy while
justifying the ungodly (Romans 3:26) and shielding them from future
wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). This blessing is a free gift given to
those who believe (Romans 6:23). Place your confidence in Christ and
call on Him for salvation (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Why God Allows Suffering

Here's what the Bible actually teaches: christrose.news/suffering
--
Good News rCa

Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

The solitary true and saving gospel is that Christ died for our sins and
rose from the grave (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). Any
modification of this gospel is false and leads to conscious, eternal
torment in the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36;
Revelation 14:11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10-15). Unless you
believe Jesus is God, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

Jesus took our place on the cross to settle our debt with God
(Colossians 2:14), and God confirmed the acceptance of this payment by
raising Him from death (Romans 1:4). Thus, God remains holy while
justifying the ungodly (Romans 3:26) and shielding them from future
wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). This blessing is a free gift given to
those who believe (Romans 6:23). Place your confidence in Christ and
call on Him for salvation (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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