From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Peace or War?

What is a Christian to do? Some have said you are living in your
country, you owe them to defend them.

Some others say, if you won't help to defend your country when at war,
then go somewhere else. We don't want you here with those that will.

A Christian may love his country, but he should love God over every
thing else. As Jesus says it: Mt 22:36-39:

" 36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all
thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

Can't one love God and Jesus, but support his country when at war?
Well, let's see. It is what Jesus said above:

"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

Killing your neighbor is not showing him much love. Also, if you
belong to a church, you may unknowingly be killing a member of your
church.

For example, during WWII there were American Baptists killing German
Baptists, and Catholic Germans killing Catholic Americans.

The Baptists in Germany then said:

" Led by figures like Paul Schmidt, top Baptist officials publicly
declared that Adolf Hitler's power was ordained by God." (AI)

And for Catholics:

"Most German Catholics followed the state. Catholic men served in the
German military, fought in the war, and swore loyalty oaths to Adolf
Hitler." (AI)

But what about JW's?

"Because their strict religious beliefs forbade political involvement,
military service, and swearing allegiance to Adolf Hitler, the Nazi
regime heavily persecuted them as enemies of the state, sending
thousands to concentration camps where they were identified by purple triangles." (AI)

But Jesus talked to some military men and never told them to quit.
That didn't mean he approved of war. He clearly did NOT!

-- "love your neighbor".
--When the Romans attacked Jerusalem, Jesus told his followers to flee
to the mountains.
--Mt 26:52, ""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him,
"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)

Mt 5:44,

"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)

2 Co 10:3,4,

"3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world
does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On
the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds." (NIV)

Thus, genuine Christians put Jesus' words above any human authorities.

My birth religion (Catholic), says they follow Christ. But as for
wars, look at they were involved in:

30 years war
French wars of religion
Early Muslim conquests
Hussite wars
Cologne war
Schmalkaldic war
Cromwelliam conquest of Ireland
Irish confederate wars
Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland
War of the Jnlich Succession
Albigensian Crusade
Second Schmalkaldic War
Williamite War in Ireland
Cristero War
The Troubles wars
Stedinger Crusade
Rising of the North
Sonderbund War
Dnsseldorf Cow War
SavoyarduWaldensian wars
Toggenburg War
First War of Villmergen
First War of Kappel
Second War of Kappel
Second Desmond Rebellion
Hessian War
Strasbourg Bishops' War
War of the Three Henrys
World War I
World War II

For young people, certain
skills are needed for life.
Go to: jw.org (8/16/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me









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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

The Divine Appointment Of Civil Government And The Sword
christrose.news/war

Romans 13:1-2rCo"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.
For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have
been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities
resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur
judgment." (Romans 13:1-2 ESV)

"Instituted By God." Civil government is not a human invention or a
pagan corruption; it is a divine institution. God Himself established
civil authority to maintain order and justice in a fallen world. To
rebel against the lawful authority of the government to bear the sword
is to rebel against the ordinance of God.

Romans 13:3-4rCo"For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is
good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for
your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the
sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out
God's wrath on the wrongdoer." (Romans 13:3-4 ESV)

"He Does Not Bear The Sword In Vain." The sword is an instrument of
physical force, execution, and warfare. God has explicitly armed the
civil ruler with this physical sword to restrain evil and execute
justice. When the government uses physical force to punish wrongdoers
and protect the innocent, the civil officer acts as "the servant of God"
and "an avenger who carries out God's wrath."

1 Peter 2:13-14rCo"Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human
institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as
sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do
good." (1 Peter 2:13-14 ESV)

"Sent By Him To Punish Those Who Do Evil." Lawful authorities are
commissioned by God to punish evildoers. This mandate includes the
defense of the nation against external aggressors and internal criminals through the use of authorized force.

Proposition: God has ordained civil government and armed it with the
physical sword to restrain evil, preserve order, and execute justice
upon wrongdoers.


The Command To Buy A Sword And The Changed Mission

Luke 22:35-36rCo"And he said to them, 'When I sent you out with no
moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?' They said,
'Nothing.' He said to them, 'But now let the one who has a moneybag take
it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his
cloak and buy one.'" (Luke 22:35-36 ESV)

"Sell His Cloak And Buy One." When Jesus originally sent forth His
disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, He explicitly
forbade them to carry moneybags, knapsacks, or extra footwear,
guaranteeing them miraculous provision and protection during that offer
of the kingdom. However, as Israel rejected Christ and His kingdom,
Jesus explicitly revoked those former instructions. He commanded His
followers to prepare for physical self-defense and survival in a hostile world, explicitly instructing anyone without a sword to sell his outer
garment and buy one.

Luke 22:37-38rCo"For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in
me: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written
about me has its fulfillment. And they said, 'Look, Lord, here are two swords.' And he said to them, 'It is enough.'" (Luke 22:37-38 ESV)

"It Is Enough." The disciples produced two physical, literal swords, and
Jesus affirmed that two were sufficient for their immediate group. This
proves that Christ was not speaking in allegorical terms, but was giving
a practical command regarding physical defense and preparation as the disciples transitioned into a new dispensation marked by hostility
toward the Gospel.

Proposition: Following the rejection of the kingdom, Jesus officially
changed the mission of His disciples, revoking their former instructions
and explicitly commanding them to equip themselves with physical swords
for protection in a hostile world.


The Scriptural Approval Of Military Service

Luke 3:14rCo"Soldiers also asked him, 'And we, what shall we do?' And he
said to them, 'Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.'" (Luke 3:14 ESV)

"Be Content With Your Wages." When professional soldiers came to John
the BaptistrCothe forerunner of ChristrCoasking how to live righteously,
John did not command them to abandon their military profession. He did
not tell them to lay down their weapons or desert the army. He commanded
them to act uprightly within their military calling and to be content
with their soldier's pay.

Acts 10:1-2, 47-48rCo"At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a
centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, a devout man who
feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people,
and prayed continually to God." (Acts 10:1-2 ESV) ... "Can anyone
withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy
Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name
of Jesus Christ." (Acts 10:47-48 ESV)

"A Centurion." Cornelius was a high-ranking military officer in the
Roman army. He was filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized as a true believer. Yet, there is not a single word in the New Testament
commanding him to resign his commission, nor is his military service
ever described as sinful.

Hebrews 11:32-34rCo"And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to
tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophetsrCowho through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice,
obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of
fire, escaped the edge of the sword, made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight." (Hebrews 11:32-34 ESV)

"Through Faith... Became Mighty In War." These godly men are
immortalized in the great "Hall of Faith" of the New Testament. Their
military exploits and defense of their nation were accomplished not
through carnal rebellion against God, but "through faith" in Him.

Proposition: God recognizes military service as an honorable and
necessary calling under the state, and the Holy Scriptures repeatedly
commend the faith and character of righteous soldiers.


The Distinction Between Personal Vengeance And Civil Administration

Matthew 26:52rCo"Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its
place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.'" (Matthew
26:52 ESV)

"Put Your Sword Back Into Its Place." Peter was a private individual
acting without civil authority. He drew a physical weapon to resist a
lawful, government-sanctioned arrest. Jesus' rebuke of Peter condemns
private vengeance and lawless violence, but it does not forbid the
lawful, defensive use of the sword by the state.

Romans 12:19rCo"Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the
wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says
the Lord.'" (Romans 12:19 ESV)

"Never Avenge Yourselves." The individual believer is commanded never to
seek personal revenge. Instead, they must leave room for God's wrath.
The very next sentences of Scripture reveal exactly how God executes
this wrath on earthrConamely, through the civil ruler, who is "the servant
of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer" (Romans
13:4 ESV).

Matthew 5:44rCo"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:44 ESV)

"Love Your Enemies." This command governs the personal attitude of a
Christian toward those who mistreat him for his faith. It does not strip
the civil government of its obligation to defend the nation or punish criminals. A soldier acting under the authority of the state is
executing civil justice, not pursuing personal hatred.

Proposition: The Scriptures forbid private citizens from taking
vengeance into their own hands, but they command the civil government to
use the sword to protect its citizens and punish evil.


The Fruits Of False Professors Do Not Invalidate God's Word

Matthew 7:15-16rCo"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by
their fruits." (Matthew 7:15-16 ESV)

"You Will Recognize Them By Their Fruits." Historical atrocities
committed in the name of Christ, were not the actions of true biblical disciples, but of "false prophets" and "ravenous wolves" who wore the
garments of religion but did not obey the Word of God.

Titus 1:16rCo"They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works.
They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work." (Titus 1:16 ESV)

"They Deny Him By Their Works." The fact that ungodly men have abused
their positions to wage bloody, unbiblical wars does not prove that
lawful national defense is sinful. It simply proves that those who
committed these atrocities were hypocrites who denied God by their actions.

Proposition: The sinful actions and unscriptural wars waged by false
religious systems throughout history do not compromise the true
teachings of the Bible, but rather fulfill its warnings concerning
apostasy and false teachers.
--
Good News rCa

Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

No other message can save except the true gospel: Christ died for our
sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). Any contrary gospel is false and plunges people into conscious, eternal
torment in the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:18;
Revelation 14:10-11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:11-15). Denying the
deity of Jesus ensures you will die in your sins (John 8:58).

Through the cross, Christ erased the spiritual debt we owed to God for
our rebellion (Colossians 2:14), a reality established when God raised
Him from the dead (Romans 1:4). God can now righteously pardon our sins (Romans 3:26) and exempt us from the coming divine judgment (1
Thessalonians 1:10). Salvation cannot be earned; it is a free gift for believers (Romans 6:23). Trust in Jesus and invoke His name to be saved (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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