From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Jesus Christ: Created or Creator?

JW's say created. The Churches say Creator. The majority of believers
say Creator. They use as some proof John 1:1, John 10:30, John 14:8,9,
etc.

The reason for the differences between the JW's and the churches for
most of the Scriptures, is INTERPRETATION of the verses. For John 1:1
is translation error. Here are some differences. Churches -- JW's:

John 1:1 -- 1 Cor 11:3, etc.
John 10:30 -- John 17:21,22, etc.
John 14:8,9 -- John 6:46, etc.

Most Bible translations of the churches get across the Bibles main
doctrines, such as God is love, and love your neighbor etc. For this
they are commended, even though at times they break their own
doctrines such as supporting wars of their countries. They put
patriotism above Bible doctrines of love.

Jesus the Creator?

-- King James
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

-- King James
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the
Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father
David:

God never had a father. He ALWAYS existed. (Ps 90:2) For God to claim
David was His father (even symbolically would be a big, fat lie. And
the Bible says it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie. (Heb 6:18)

He didn't say he WAS the highest, but was "Son" of the highest.

-- King James
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent
into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

He didn't say he was God, but "the Son of God".

But don't the churches say Jesus claimed to be "I Am"? (OT GOD) (John
8:58) That is a total
misinterpretation.
Jesus was saying here that he existed before Abraham, not that he was
the God punishing the Egyptians. This is shown by how some Bible
translations render it. For example:

An American Translation reads. "I existed before Abraham was born!"

Moffatt, "I have existed before Abraham was born"

Sacred Bible, "Before Abraham existed, I was existing"

The New Testament, "Jesus said to them, 'I tell you, I existed before
Abraham was born!"

The Four Gospels According the Sinaitic Palimpsest, "He said unto
them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have
been."

The Twentieth Century New Testament, "Believe me 'Jesus replied,
'before Abraham was born I was already what I am."

The Modern New Testament, "Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to
you, Before Abraham was born, I was."

The Syriac New Testament, "Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say
to you, That before Abraham existed, I was."

In some non-English Bibles such as C. Stage's Das Neue Testament
(German) "Jesus said to them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you" : Before
Abrham was born, I was."

Nuevo Testamento (Spanish),"Jesus answered: 'In truth, in truth, I say
to you: Before Abraham was born, I was"

F. Pfaefflin's Das Neue Testament (German), "Jesus: 'Before there was
an Abraham, I was already there,"

The same expression "ego eimi",(I am) is used at John 8:24 and 28. But
many of the same translators who translate it just as "I am" at John
8:58, translate it as "I am he" at John 8:24 and 28. (NASB,
NIV-footnote).

And finally there is John 1:1:

-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

"In the beginning". Yes, Jesus had a beginning. God did not. (Ps 90:2)

And, if you are WITH someone, there are two present.

And There is the Greek translation rule which is not observed here.
Look at the verse. It has the word "God" twice. (Greek theos) The
first one has the word "the" before it. (Greek ho) That makes it God
Almighty.

BUT THE SECOND ONE DOES NOT. That makes it more like an adjective,
than a noun. Thus the translation should be:

(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)

The Greek NT was written in all small letters. It is the translators
who capitalize words. Notice these comments by some Bible scholars:

William Barclay:

"William Barclay (5 December 1907 u 24 January 1978) was a Scottish
author, radio and television presenter, Church of Scotland minister,
and Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of
Glasgow. He wrote a set of Bible commentaries on the New Testament
that sold 1.5 million copies." (Wikipedia)

And he said:

oWhen John said the word was God he was not saying that Jesus was
identical with God; he was saying that Jesus was so perfectly the same
as God in mind, in heart, in being that in him we perfectly see what
God is like.o

Jesus also quoted this scripture at Joh 10:34,35. When charged by
opposers with 'making himself a god,' Jesus' reply was: "Is it not
written in your Law, 'I said: "You are gods"'? If he called 'gods'
those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot
be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and
dispatched into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, I am God's
Son?" (Joh 10:31-37)

Jesus there quoted from Psalm 82, in which human judges, whom God
condemned for not executing justice, were called "gods." (Ps 82:1, 2,
6, 7) Thus, Jesus showed the unreasonableness of charging him with
blasphemy for stating that he was, not God, but God's Son.

Other than the Jehovah's Witness Bible (NWT), here are some others:

"the Logos was divine." (MO);
"the Word was divine." (AT; SD);
"a god was the Word." (interlinear ED) ;
"the Word was a god" (NTIV).
"the Word was a god." (NWT)
"The Word was deity." (Simple English)

The Catholic Bible, New American Bible (NAB), says in a footnote on
John 1:1,

"Was God:lack of a definite article with "God" in Greek signifies
predication rather than identification".

Thus to ACCURATELY get across what the writer of Joh 1:1 was saying,
is to show that the "Word" [Jesus] was with Almighty God in the
beginning, and that the "Word" was also like a god, or godlike.

That is how the Greek manuscripts read, and that is how an honest and
accurate translator, should translate it for his readers.

For young people, certain
skills are needed for life.
Go to: jw.org (8/15/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2