From Newsgroup: alt.bible
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Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:36:38 -0400,
<
dmbl2l1osulua32fhs2oksci4gt1dpbsfr@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness <
zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================
For example:
rCo your denial that Jesus is God when the Bible repeatedly states He
is God (John 1:1;
That is a Greek error. I've been over this "more times than I can
count."
No Greek manuscript has an article that could accurately be translated
as "a god". They all have the equivalent of "was God". Thus, your
ongoing effort to brain-wash continues to contradict what the Bible says.
The absence of the article before +++|-i-e in John 1:1 reinforces the fact Jesus is God. When a predicate nominative appears before the verb +|b+#+++> (to be), it typically lacks the definite article even when it should be understood as definite.[1] This pattern, known as ColwellrCOs Rule,
appears throughout the New Testament. In John 1:49, when Nathanael
confesses Jesus as king, the word for king lacks the article and
precedes the verb, yet clearly carries the sense of rCLThe King of IsraelrCY[1]rConot merely rCLa king...rCY
Research shows that preverbal position helps determine significance: an anarthrous predicate nominative in that location most often carries qualitative meaning, and this prominent sentence placement would help audiences recognize a qualitative sense.[2] The anarthrous +++|-i-e in John 1:1 is qualitative, emphasizing the divine status of the WordrCoGod in essence.[2]
Additionally, in biblical Greek, the singular theos is never used affirmatively to refer to anyone other than the Lord God, and the notion
of a supreme God having a second deity under his command has no biblical precedent.[3] The rhetorical structure of the Greek text interweaves the
Word and God, affirming the full deity of the Word in eternal fellowship
with God the Father before creation.[2] The absence of the article, far
from undermining JohnrCOs claim, is simply the grammatical means by which
he expresses it.
John 1:1,2-- in the BEGINNING was Jesus (the Word). Since God had no "beginning" (Ps 90:2), it can't be referring to God.
Complete idiocy and self-contradicting lies.
The sense is not rCLFrom the very beginning,rCY which would be b+C-Cb++ b+C-U-cb+a-e (1
John 1:1; 3:8). rCLIn the beginningrCY means in effect rCLbefore the world was createdrCY (GNB; cf. John 17:5, 24; Eph 1:4). In Prov 8:23rCo24 (LXX) b+E++ b+C-U-cb+c clearly means rCLbefore time wasrCY and rCLbefore he (the Lord) made the
earth.rCY In itself v. 1a speaks only of the pretemporality or supratemporality of the Logos, but through the conjunction of b+E++ b+C-U-cb+c and b+a++ (not b+E+|+!+++|-a++) John implies the eternal preexistence of the Logos.
b+<++ therefore signifies timeless existence: rCL(In the beginning the Word) was already eternally existingrCY or rCL(At the beginning the Word) had
always been in existencerCY (cf. McHugh 9, rCLthere existedrCY) (Murray).
rCo The same context goes on to say that He already "was" God in
the beginning (1:2).
rCo It says "all things" (not all "other" things) were made through
Him. Then it adds that "without him was not anything made that
was made". If it was made, Jesus made it. That means Jesus
cannot be a created being.
And before you start promoting your idiotic lies of confusion about the
word "through", that same phrase is used of God the Father, not just
Jesus. If the use of the word "through" (dia) automatically denotes a subordinate, created status, then this exact same interpretive rule must
be applied to God the Father, because the New Testament repeatedly uses
the identical preposition and grammatical construction to describe the Father's own creative and sovereign acts.
Romans 11:36 - "For of Him and through (dia) Him and to Him are all
things, to whom be glory forever. Amen."
In this text, the Father is the absolute source ("of Him"), the agent ("through Him"), and the ultimate goal ("to Him") of the entire
universe. If "through" implies a created, secondary instrument, then the Father would be a created instrument of someone else.
1 Corinthians 1:9 - "God is faithful, by (dia) whom you were called into
the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."
The Greek text explicitly reads "through whom" (+|+|b++ ++b+u), referring directly to God the Father as the one who performs the action of calling believers.
Galatians 1:1 - "Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but
through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead)."
Here, the single preposition "through" (dia) governs both Jesus Christ
and God the Father together. It is grammatically impossible to argue
that the word establishes a lower, created status for Jesus while
establishing an eternal, uncreated status for the Father in the exact
same sentence.
Hebrews 2:10 - "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and
by (dia) whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make
the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."
The phrase "by whom" is literally "through whom" (+|+|b++ ++b+u) and refers explicitly to the Father, for whom and through whom all physical and
spiritual reality exists.
Linguistically, the Greek preposition dia with the genitive case does
not inherently mean a subordinate or created instrument. It indicates
agency. When applied to creation, the New Testament writers use it to
show that the Father and the Son operate in perfect, undivided unity.
The Father is the source who creates *through* the Son, and the Son is
the co-equal agent who executes the creation.
Claiming that "through Him" forces Jesus into the category of a created
being creates a theological disaster that would strip deity and eternity
from God the Father Himself. The biblical text uses the word to show
that Jesus shares the exact same sovereign, creative agency that belongs uniquely to the uncreated God.
That you sit and lie through all of that to deny Jesus is God, just
shows God has handed you over to strong delusion, and that for you,
language ceases to be a medium for conveying truth.
Thus as
supported by Col 1:15, in vs 1 here Jesus was created and 'began' to
exist.
You promote the lie and confusion that any time the word "firstborn"
appears, it must refer to the order in which something was created. This
is false. You have been shown this again and again, and you have no
answer for it. Yet you persist, as if to accomplish through
brain-washing, what you can't overcome by Bible reasoning.
In Psalm 89:27, God declares concerning David, "I also will make him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth," which establishes
firstborn as a title of preeminence and supreme rank, given that David
was actually the youngest son of Jesse rather than the first
chronologically.
Similarly, in Jeremiah 31:9, God states, "For I am a Father to Israel,
and Ephraim is My firstborn," despite the fact that Manasseh was the chronologically older brother of Ephraim, demonstrating that the title signifies a designation of priority and covenant inheritance.
In Exodus 4:22, the Lord commands Pharaoh, "Then you shall say to
Pharaoh, 'Thus says the Lord: "Israel is My son, My firstborn,"'" which applies the term to a whole nation to designate its chosen status, preeminence, and special relationship to God among all the nations of
the earth.
In Colossians 1:15, Jesus is described as "the firstborn of all
creation," which the subsequent verses immediately define not as being
part of creation, but as having supreme authority and preeminence over
it, "for by Him all things were created." Finally, in Colossians 1:18,
He is called "the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may
have the preeminence," showing that the term denotes His rightful
position of absolute supremacy, sovereignty, and headship over all things.
You promote continual confusion and contradiction to what the Bible
teaches. You have cited NOTHING that says Jesus was created or began to
exist at a point in time. EVERYTHING you have cited proves Jesus always existed. You CONTRADICT EVERYTHING the passage says to promote stupid,
refuted lies.
After this, then ALL the rest of creations came from God, but went
through Jesus.
See "through" above. The Bible says no such thing, which is why you
never quote it saying any such thing. You promote obvious, refuted lies
over and over, as if by brainwashing you can overcome the facts to
establish stupid lies.
Works Cited
[1] Fredrick J. Long, Kairos: A Beginning Greek Grammar (Mishawaka, IN: Fredrick J. Long, 2005), 50.
[2] Fredrick J. Long, Koine Greek Grammar: A Beginning-Intermediate
Exegetical and Pragmatic Handbook, ed. T. Michael W. Halcomb and
Fredrick J. Long, Accessible Greek Resources and Online Studies
(Wilmore, KY: GlossaHouse, 2015), 107rCo108.
[3] Robert M. Bowman Jr., rCLJohn 1:1,rCY in The Evangelical Dictionary of World Religions, ed. H. Wayne House (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books: A
Division of Baker Publishing Group, 2018), 269.
Harris, Murray J. John. B&H Academic, 2015, p. 18.
--
Good News rCa
Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.
The true gospel that saves declares that Christ died for our sins and
rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). Every
alternative gospel is a lie that leads to conscious, eternal torment in
the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10-15). If you refuse to believe Jesus
is God, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).
Our offense against God was completely paid for when Christ died on the
cross (Colossians 2:14), and God openly proved this by raising Him to
life (Romans 1:4). Because of this sacrifice, God upholds His justice
while granting us forgiveness (Romans 3:26) and safety from the wrath to
come (1 Thessalonians 1:10). This rescue is a gift of pure grace for
those who believe (Romans 6:23). Call on the Lord in faith to receive
His salvation (Romans 10:9-13):
How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation
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