Bible Teachings Concerning Demons And The Conscious State Of The Dead
Topic 1: The True Nature And Work Of Demons
The popular mind is easily captivated by sensational tales of spooky >hauntings, poltergeists, and mysterious sightings in the night sky. Yet, >when we turn from the wild speculations of fiction to the sober,
unerring pages of Holy Scripture, we discover a reality that is far more >sobering. The Bible never directs the believer's attention to ghosts, >haunted houses, or flying saucers as the theater of demonic activity. >Instead, the word of God unmasks demonic forces as master deceivers
whose primary operational strategy is spiritual, moral, and doctrinal.
Their supreme triumph is not found in scaring a household with rattling >chains, but in capturing a pulpit; they do not seek to terrify the
physical senses, but to corrupt the human heart, to blind the mind to
the saving gospel of Jesus Christ, and to sow bitter division among
those who profess His name. A good example of this, is "Jehovah's
Witnesses" (actually Satan's Witnesses), who try to appear as ministers
or righteousness, but who actually promote a false, soul-damning gospel
and doctrines which deny and contradict the true gospel and Bible
teaching (Galatians 1:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Demons focus on masquerading as ministers of righteousness.
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan
disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his >servants, also, disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness. Their
end will correspond to their deeds." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15, ESV)
Satan and his demonic forces do not seek to draw people away from God >primarily through spooky, paranormal parlor tricks or visible, physical >terror. Their chief strategy is moral and religious deception. They
disguise themselves as agents of good, truth, and moral uprightness.
They preach a form of righteousness that is completely devoid of the
true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Demons actively promote envy, strife, and selfish ambition.
"But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do
not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes
down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where
jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every
vile practice." (James 3:14-16, ESV)
The Bible plainly characterizes bitter jealousy and selfish ambition as >"demonic." The operational presence of demons is not marked by physical >levitation or strange lights,
but by the sowing of division, pride,
envy, and self-promotion. Wherever these sinful attitudes rule a
person's life or ministry, demonic wisdom is actively at work.
Demons contradict and oppose the true Gospel of salvation through faith
in Christ's atoning death and resurrection.
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from
the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of >demons..." (1 Timothy 4:1, ESV)
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel >contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed." (Galatians >1:8, ESV)
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see
whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into
the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every >spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit
of the antichrist..." (1 John 4:1-3, ESV)
The primary target of demonic hostility is the gospel of Jesus Christ. >Demons dedicate themselves to promoting false doctrines that deny the >absolute necessity, sufficiency, and exclusivity of Christ's
substitutionary atonement on the cross. They distract men from simple
faith in Christ's death and resurrection, replacing it with legalism,
human philosophy, or false spiritualism.
There is no biblical warrant to believe that demons focus their efforts
on strange, paranormal, or sensational physical behavior.
While the Gospels record instances of physical affliction during the
unique earthly ministry of Christ, the instructions given to the Church
in the Epistles never warn against spooky paranormal occurrences.
Instead, we are repeatedly warned against "deceitful spirits,"
"teachings of demons," "arguments and every lofty opinion raised against
the knowledge of God" (2 Corinthians 10:5, ESV), and "schemes of the
devil" which consist of lies, anger, and division (Ephesians 6:11, ESV).
The battleground is the mind, the intellect, and the heart, fought with >truth rather than ghost-hunting.
PROPOSITION: The Scriptures teach that the primary focus of demonic
activity is not spooky paranormal phenomena, but spiritual, moral, and >doctrinal deception, specifically targeting the Gospel of Christ and
sowing division among believers.
Topic 2: The Conscious State Of The Dead And Refutation Of Soul Sleep Or >Annihilation
Old Testament passages such as Psalm 146:3-4 speak only of the cessation
of earthly plans and ambitions, not the cessation of the soul's
conscious existence.
"Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no >salvation. When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that
very day his plans perish." (Psalm 146:3-4, ESV)
This passage warns us against placing our ultimate trust in mortal
leaders. Why? Because when they die, their earthly plans, political >projects, and human ambitions perish with them. They can no longer help
us on this earth. This verse does not teach that the soul ceases to
think or exist in the spiritual realm; it simply teaches that a dead
man's earthly designs are terminated.
The Scriptures clearly show that at physical death, the soul or spirit >departs from the body and continues to exist.
"And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name >Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin." (Genesis 35:18, ESV)
"and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to
God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7, ESV)
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the >flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I
cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart
and be with Christ, for that is far better." (Philippians 1:21-23, ESV)
Physical death is not the extinction of human existence, but the
departure of the conscious soul or spirit from the physical body.
Rachel's soul did not cease to exist; it "departed." The body returns to
the dust, but the spirit returns to God. Paul knew that physical death >("departing") would result in immediate, conscious fellowship "with
Christ," which is "far better" than remaining in the body. If death were >unconsciousness or non-existence, it could not be "far better" than
serving Christ on earth.
Jesus Christ explicitly declared that the soul survives the death of the >physical body.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew
10:28, ESV)
This is a decisive, self-evident statement from the lips of our Lord.
Men are fully capable of killing the physical body. However, Jesus
asserts that they "cannot kill the soul." If death meant the immediate >cessation of conscious existence (soul sleep or annihilation), then
anyone who killed the body would inevitably kill the soul as well. But
Jesus says they cannot. The soul survives physical death.
The Bible teaches that there will be different degrees of punishment in
the judgment, which is impossible if the lost are annihilated.
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works
done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented
long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more
tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you."
(Matthew 11:21-22, ESV)
"But I tell you, it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Tyre and Sidon than for you." (Luke 10:14, ESV)
Our Lord clearly asserts that in the day of judgment, some will
experience a "more tolerable" sentence than others. If the ultimate end
of the lost is annihilation (the absolute cessation of existence), there >could be no degrees of punishment. Non-existence has no levels or
degrees; one person cannot be "more tolerably" non-existent than
another. For there to be varying degrees of suffering and tolerability, >those under judgment must remain in conscious, personal existence.
The Bible teaches that it would have been better for certain individuals
if they had never been born, which is mathematically and logically >impossible if death is annihilation.
"The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by
whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man
if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24, ESV)
Jesus makes a highly specific, logical statement regarding Judas. If the >destiny of the lost is annihilation, then the final state of Judas is >absolute non-existence. However, before he was born, Judas was also in a >state of non-existence. If his eternal punishment is simply returning to >non-existence, then his final state is exactly identical to his
pre-birth state. In that case, it could not be "better" for him to have >never been born; his existence would simply be a brief, neutral
interlude ending in the same nothingness. The declaration that it would
be "better" to have never existed proves that his eternal destiny is a
state of conscious, ongoing ruin that is far worse than non-existence.
The biblical terms translated "destroy" or "destruction" do not mean to >cease to exist, but rather to exist in a state of ruin, loss, or
separation from its proper purpose.
"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them,
does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one >that is lost, until he finds it?" (Luke 15:4, ESV)
"Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not >light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds
it?" (Luke 15:8, ESV)
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is
found." (Luke 15:24, ESV)
"you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh,
so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (1 Corinthians
5:5, ESV)
In the Greek Scriptures, the word for "lost" in the parables of the lost >sheep, lost coin, and lost son is the exact same word translatedthe physical
elsewhere as "destroy" or "perish" (apollumi). The lost sheep did not
cease to exist; it was physically present in the wilderness, but it was >ruined for its master's use. The lost coin did not turn to dust; it
remained in the house, but was out of service. The prodigal son was
"lost" and "dead" to his father, yet he was actively eating with pigs. >Similarly, when the Apostle Paul speaks of delivering a man to Satan for
the "destruction" (olethros) of his flesh, he does not mean
annihilation of his body, but the ruin of his fleshly desires and the >chastisement of his physical form.
To "destroy" something in biblical terms is not to end its being, but to >ruin its well-being. The destruction of the wicked is their eternal >exclusion from the presence of Goduexisting in a permanent state of >spiritual ruin, separation, and usefulness.
PROPOSITION: The Scriptures consistently and plainly show that the human >soul survives physical death in a fully conscious state, and that the >destiny of the lost is not annihilation or non-existence, but a
conscious, ongoing state of eternal ruin, separation, and just punishment.
Here is one for you. FISH ARE SOULS:
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]
Is there a fish Heaven? What about a fish hellfire. (saves cooking
time) Are fish souls immortal too?
There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul" in the Bible.
Before Gen 2:7, it calls FISH as being "souls". Gen 1:20,
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.
BUT WAIT A MINUTE, you might say. All the Bibles I looked at say
"living creatures" not "living souls". No problem. Just simply look up
the Hebrew word for "creatures" there. It is NEPHESH, which is the
Hebrew OT word for "soul". So do fish have immortal souls also?
(Christendom is quiet on this one)
========================================
Fri, 05 Jun 2026 10:57:54 -0400,
<dqc32ll240ufktin70br8s9tgmkp8at1t8@4ax.com
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
========================================
And you haven't commented on Gen 1:20 (nephesh) where fish are souls.
Do they also get eternal life or eternal torment? Please reply.
Notice what he claims:
"you haven't commented on Gen 1:20"
========================================
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate representation of what
the Bible says, while he denies and lies about what the people who
respond to him say?
Here's me responding to your Genesis 1:20 claim at least five times,
over the past two years:
========================================
Thu, 4 Jun 2026 17:19:54 -0500,
<10vstmb$nb0o$1@christrose.eternal-september.org>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
Here is one for you. FISH ARE SOULS:
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]
Darby's interlinear reads like this:
"...swarms of living [nepes] souls [hay],
not
"...swarms of living souls [nepes] (Darby).
The word translated "soul" here, is hay, not nepes.
Is there a fish Heaven? What about a fish hellfire. (saves cooking
time) Are fish souls immortal too?
Are fish created in the image of God? No. Are men? Yes they are. Does
this passage teach that men cease to exist when they die? No it does not.
_____________________
========================================
Wed, 13 May 2026 08:31:18 -0500,
<c4a06d6a-543f-4838-b2e9-ba3a97bb31a1@christrose.news
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul" in the Bible.
Argument 1: "It all depends on what the word "soul" means in a verse.
That is, you're saying the context determines the meaning. Well, the
context of Matthew 10:28 shows a contrast between the ability to kill
the body and the soul. Men can kill the body, they cannot kill the soul. >There's no self-deluded imagination that somehow makes that mean the
opposite of what it says, which is what your claims require. This
context necessitates that it means the soul survives the death of the body.
Argument 2: There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul"
in the Bible.
Now, after just stating that the context determines the correct meaning
of soul in a given context, you're trying to tell me that a remote
context determines the meaning of "soul" in Matthew 10:28? If you can
find some place else in the Bible where soul means something different,
then it must mean that Matthew 28:10
is using the remote context to
determine the meaning of the word? This just shows me how willfully >self-deluded you are.
(1) a person. Gen 2:7
(2) a fish, etc. Gen 1:20
(3) a person's future life. (Mt 10:28)
(4) life. (Gen 35:18)
idem. Matthew 10:28 does not say "future life". It says men can kill the
body but cannot kill the soul. This "future life" is a doctrine you try
to impose on the text, to delude yourself and others that men can reject >Christ as Savior,
the lake of fire. Your love of your own delusion just shows that God has >handed you over to strong delusion.
_____________________
========================================
Mon, 18 Aug 2025 21:08:44 -0500,
<95ac2a98-dd24-4160-b7fa-018e87767906@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
3. "Souls" of fish (nephesh/psuch?)
Hebrew nephesh and Greek psuch? can mean oliving creature/life.o Animals
are called nephesh (Genesis 1:20) because they are living beings,
but
only man bears God's image (Genesis 1:27) and faces resurrection and
judgment (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29). Scripture does not teach an
afterlife destiny for animals; its focus is mankind. Insufficient data. >Scripture does not explain where animals "go" after death.
_____________________
========================================
Fri, 25 Oct 2024 22:01:47 -0500,
<072033ff-c4ad-4ceb-8dad-a45b4be452a0@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
2. The Term oSoulo in Various Contexts:
James points out that osoulo (*nephesh*) is used for animals in Genesis
1:20 and for physical desires in Deuteronomy 12:20. This does not negate
the distinct teaching about human souls. The Bible uses words in a
variety of ways based on context, but it distinguishes human beings as >created in God's image, with eternal accountability (Genesis 1:27; >Ecclesiastes 12:7). While fish are described as "living souls" in a
general sense, Scripture reserves unique language for humans, reflecting >their spiritual nature.
_____________________
========================================
Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:23:44 -0500,
<tr3kcjljok6g0979qt8sf859pucg4gvttf@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
Before Gen 2:7, it calls FISH as being "souls". Gen 1:20,
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.
BUT WAIT A MINUTE, you might say. All the Bibles I looked at say
"living creatures" not "living souls". No problem. Just simply look up
the Hebrew word for "creatures" there. It is NEPHESH, which is the
Hebrew OT word for "soul". So do fish have immortal souls also?
(Christendom is quiet on this one)
For clarity and lack of confusion, I
would recommend the principle of clear
reference. Instead of going and looking
for a way to find an apparent
contradiction in some Old Testament
verse, just look at what the
overwhelming mass of clear data clearly
indicates in the epistles.
You're trying to establish doctrines
which were not even fully revealed yet,
based on a narrow interpretation of old
testament passages which were not the
final form of revelation on the subject.
Look more to what the epistles teach.
_____________________
Thus, you have a long, long pattern not just of trying to pit Old
Testament Scripture against clear New Testament revelation about the >afterlife, but of then pretending like no one has ever addressed your >contradictions.
You did the same thing, claiming no one has ever addressed your efforts
to undermine the fact Christ is God, even after I posted 18 message ID's >where I directly addressed each and every one of your claims.
This is why I say you're not honest enough to carry on an edifying >conversation with. You just keep repeating the same refuted claims over
and over again, then PRETEND like no one has even addressed them as if
it bolsters your claims.
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate
representation of what the Bible says, when he denies and lies about
what the people who respond to him say?
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 13:01:09 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
Fri, 05 Jun 2026 10:57:54 -0400,
<dqc32ll240ufktin70br8s9tgmkp8at1t8@4ax.com
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
========================================
And you haven't commented on Gen 1:20 (nephesh) where fish are souls.
Do they also get eternal life or eternal torment? Please reply.
Notice what he claims:
"you haven't commented on Gen 1:20"
========================================
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate representation of what
the Bible says, while he denies and lies about what the people who
respond to him say?
Here is what I am up against: Col 2:8,
" Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his
prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the
tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and
not according to Christ;" (NWT; see also 1 Tim 6:4)
Yes, I know. You will apply that to me.
Here's me responding to your Genesis 1:20 claim at least five times,
over the past two years:
You are blessed to have a good memory. (:>)
========================================
Thu, 4 Jun 2026 17:19:54 -0500,
<10vstmb$nb0o$1@christrose.eternal-september.org>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
Here is one for you. FISH ARE SOULS:
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]
Darby's interlinear reads like this:
"...swarms of living [nepes] souls [hay],
not
"...swarms of living souls [nepes] (Darby).
The word translated "soul" here, is hay, not nepes.
Is there a fish Heaven? What about a fish hellfire. (saves cooking
time) Are fish souls immortal too?
Are fish created in the image of God? No. Are men? Yes they are. Does
this passage teach that men cease to exist when they die? No it does not.
I never said it did.
That gem is at Ps 146:3,4 among others.
Notice what this Hebrew interlinear says on Gen 1:20 transliterated:
"and-he-is-saying Elohim they shall roam the-waters roamer soul-of
(NPHSH) "
"AI Overview
In Genesis 1:20, the Hebrew word often translated as "soul" or "living creature" is ?????? (pronounced nefesh).
Biblical scholars, including those at the Bible Project on YouTube,
note several nuances regarding nephesh in this verse:
The Translation: In Genesis 1:20, nefesh is often rendered as
"living creatures" or "living souls," depending on your Bible Hub
translation preference (e.g., KJV vs. ESV).
Shared by Animals: Unlike the modern, Western concept of a soul as
an immaterial, exclusively human spirit, nefesh in Genesis refers to
any breathing, physical, living
_____________________
========================================
Wed, 13 May 2026 08:31:18 -0500,
<c4a06d6a-543f-4838-b2e9-ba3a97bb31a1@christrose.news
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul" in the Bible.
Argument 1: "It all depends on what the word "soul" means in a verse.
That is, you're saying the context determines the meaning. Well, the
context of Matthew 10:28 shows a contrast between the ability to kill
the body and the soul. Men can kill the body, they cannot kill the soul.
There's no self-deluded imagination that somehow makes that mean the
opposite of what it says, which is what your claims require. This
context necessitates that it means the soul survives the death of the body.
Notice
ESV
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Do you trust a Scripture that lies? Your ESV here lied. Hell in the
Bible is Hades. And Hades will empty out its contents. But the
Scripture shows it to really be Gehenna. Notice this more accurate translation:
(Matthew 10:28) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body
but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul
and body in Ge-+hen?na.(NWT)
The soul can be "destroyed", thus it is not immortal. (Gen 2:7)
Argument 2: There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul"
in the Bible.
Now, after just stating that the context determines the correct meaning
of soul in a given context, you're trying to tell me that a remote
context determines the meaning of "soul" in Matthew 10:28? If you can
find some place else in the Bible where soul means something different,
then it must mean that Matthew 28:10
Make that Mt 10:28.
is using the remote context to
determine the meaning of the word? This just shows me how willfully
self-deluded you are.
??
(1) a person. Gen 2:7
(2) a fish, etc. Gen 1:20
(3) a person's future life. (Mt 10:28)
(4) life. (Gen 35:18)
idem. Matthew 10:28 does not say "future life". It says men can kill the
body but cannot kill the soul. This "future life" is a doctrine you try
to impose on the text, to delude yourself and others that men can reject
Christ as Savior,
Dream on:
-- New King James
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through Me.
I never said to ignore Christ. You are being false here.
then somehow still escape conscious eternal torment in
the lake of fire. Your love of your own delusion just shows that God has
handed you over to strong delusion.
And pigs can fly!
_____________________
========================================
Mon, 18 Aug 2025 21:08:44 -0500,
<95ac2a98-dd24-4160-b7fa-018e87767906@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
3. "Souls" of fish (nephesh/psuch?)
Hebrew nephesh and Greek psuch? can mean rCLliving creature/life.rCY Animals >> are called nephesh (Genesis 1:20) because they are living beings,
Fish are souls. (nephesh) crabs are souls (nephesh). Whales are souls (nephesh) Etc, etc.
Do they all have immortal souls? When they die, where do their souls
go?
but
only man bears God's image (Genesis 1:27) and faces resurrection and
judgment (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29). Scripture does not teach an
afterlife destiny for animals; its focus is mankind. Insufficient data.
Scripture does not explain where animals "go" after death.
Thus when they die, souls die. And thus souls ARE NOT immortal.
How about a "soul" craving to eat meat. (flesh) (Deut 12:20)
How about a soul containing blood. (Jer 2:34)
Can't you see how a "soul" defines a person?
_____________________
========================================
Fri, 25 Oct 2024 22:01:47 -0500,
<072033ff-c4ad-4ceb-8dad-a45b4be452a0@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
2. The Term rCLSoulrCY in Various Contexts:
James points out that rCLsoulrCY (*nephesh*) is used for animals in Genesis >> 1:20 and for physical desires in Deuteronomy 12:20. This does not negate
the distinct teaching about human souls. The Bible uses words in a
variety of ways based on context, but it distinguishes human beings as
created in God's image, with eternal accountability (Genesis 1:27;
Ecclesiastes 12:7). While fish are described as "living souls" in a
general sense, Scripture reserves unique language for humans, reflecting
their spiritual nature.
King David didn't think so: Eccles 3:19,20.
19. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even
one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea,
they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a
beast: for all is vanity.
20. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. (KJV)
_____________________
========================================
Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:23:44 -0500,
<tr3kcjljok6g0979qt8sf859pucg4gvttf@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
That's right. As Satan's Witness, we witness the facts about the evil
Satan; How he ruined everlasting life for all humans.
Before Gen 2:7, it calls FISH as being "souls". Gen 1:20,
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.
BUT WAIT A MINUTE, you might say. All the Bibles I looked at say
"living creatures" not "living souls". No problem. Just simply look up
the Hebrew word for "creatures" there. It is NEPHESH, which is the
Hebrew OT word for "soul". So do fish have immortal souls also?
(Christendom is quiet on this one)
For clarity and lack of confusion, I
would recommend the principle of clear
reference. Instead of going and looking
for a way to find an apparent
contradiction in some Old Testament
verse, just look at what the
overwhelming mass of clear data clearly
indicates in the epistles.
God's worshipers are to REASON on the Scriptures:
-- King James
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three
sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
You're trying to establish doctrines
which were not even fully revealed yet,
based on a narrow interpretation of old
testament passages which were not the
final form of revelation on the subject.
Look more to what the epistles teach.
Did you forget?
-- King James
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness:
THAT INCLUDES THE OT.
_____________________
Thus, you have a long, long pattern not just of trying to pit Old
Testament Scripture against clear New Testament revelation about the
afterlife, but of then pretending like no one has ever addressed your
contradictions.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself.
You did the same thing, claiming no one has ever addressed your efforts
to undermine the fact Christ is God, even after I posted 18 message ID's
where I directly addressed each and every one of your claims.
Yes, you do. And I appreciate that. That's the way it should be
This is why I say you're not honest enough to carry on an edifying
conversation with. You just keep repeating the same refuted claims over
and over again, then PRETEND like no one has even addressed them as if
it bolsters your claims.
I have no such intentions. And I repeat things because the churches
have come up with their own doctrines and false reasonings.
For example, When a youth, the RCC said as soon as an OT person dies,
he went straight to 'hell' or right to Heaven. Yet Jesus said no OT
person ever went to Heaven.
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate
representation of what the Bible says, when he denies and lies about
what the people who respond to him say?
?? Please give me an example.
Can we ever get to see a lasting peace? The Bible's coming peace may
surprise you.
I never said it did. That gem is at Ps 146:3,4 among others.
========================================
Mon, 08 Jun 2026 01:25:23 -0400,
<ilua2lthgsv45eq63slmv1satqeouu1429@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote:
========================================
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 13:01:09 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
Fri, 05 Jun 2026 10:57:54 -0400,
<dqc32ll240ufktin70br8s9tgmkp8at1t8@4ax.com
Satan's Witness <zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
========================================
And you haven't commented on Gen 1:20 (nephesh) where fish are souls.
Do they also get eternal life or eternal torment? Please reply.
Notice what he claims:
"you haven't commented on Gen 1:20"
========================================
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate representation of what
the Bible says, while he denies and lies about what the people who
respond to him say?
Here is what I am up against: Col 2:8,
Notice, he's not denying that he promotes falsehood about what I have
been saying in here, as he selectively "forgets" half a dozen times that >someone responded to his Genesis 1:20 claims, over a period of two
years, while pretending it never happened. Instead, he tries to justify
it by promoting some other lie, like he had no choice but to
misrepresent what I've been saying.
It was the same on all the attacks you made against the fact Jesus is
God. I can show 18 articles where I had addressed every single objection
you raised, yet you continually not only repeated them over and over but >kept stating to the effect that you were waiting for anyone to answer
the objections. You tried to lend credibility to your lies against
Christ, by pretending like no one had even bothered to furnish you with
a response.
You expected people to believe you selectively, "sincerely", and
"honestly" did not see any of my responses over those months, while you >responded to every other article except the ones I was posting.
" Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his
prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the
tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and
not according to Christ;" (NWT; see also 1 Tim 6:4)
That's exactly what you're up againstuFrom the Satan's Witnesses
religion you subscribe to.
Yes, I know. You will apply that to me.
It's you who was carried off with Bible-contradicting eisegesis and >philosophy from what Colossians actually says, as you eisegete words
that aren't there for the express purpose of denying what the text says, >which is that Jesus created "all things", and that all the fullness of
the Godhead dwells in Him in bodily form, etc.
Here's me responding to your Genesis 1:20 claim at least five times,
over the past two years:
You are blessed to have a good memory. (:>)
Lies:
o You have selective "forgetfulness". You never forget the lies
you keep telling. You just keep on pretending like you never
noticed or remembered that anyone is offering any response to
them.
o You use Forte Agent. It's capable of searches. That's how I
found these articles. You'd have people believe that every
couple of weeks, you "coincidentally" forget being refuted, and
so you simply repeat the same refuted lies over and over again.
========================================
Thu, 4 Jun 2026 17:19:54 -0500,
<10vstmb$nb0o$1@christrose.eternal-september.org>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
Here is one for you. FISH ARE SOULS:
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living >>>> souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]
Darby's interlinear reads like this:
"...swarms of living [nepes] souls [hay],
not
"...swarms of living souls [nepes] (Darby).
The word translated "soul" here, is hay, not nepes.
He has no response here. He misrepresented what the Bible says in
Genesis 1:20 to bolster his Satan's Witnesses lies about the state of
man's soul after death.
I never said it did.Is there a fish Heaven? What about a fish hellfire. (saves cooking
time) Are fish souls immortal too?
Are fish created in the image of God? No. Are men? Yes they are. Does
this passage teach that men cease to exist when they die? No it does not. >>
Yes you do. You try to use this passage to conflate the difference
between body and soul, as if they're one and the same and as if the soul >does not survive the death of the body. That's a refuted lie. You
ignore, deny, and contradict what the New Testament reveals (men can
kill the body but not the soul [Matthew 10:28]).
That gem is at Ps 146:3,4 among others.
Notice what this Hebrew interlinear says on Gen 1:20 transliterated:
"and-he-is-saying Elohim they shall roam the-waters roamer soul-of
(NPHSH) "
"AI Overview
In Genesis 1:20, the Hebrew word often translated as "soul" or "living
creature" is ?????? (pronounced nefesh).
Biblical scholars, including those at the Bible Project on YouTube,
note several nuances regarding nephesh in this verse:
The Translation: In Genesis 1:20, nefesh is often rendered as
"living creatures" or "living souls," depending on your Bible Hub
translation preference (e.g., KJV vs. ESV).
Shared by Animals: Unlike the modern, Western concept of a soul as
an immaterial, exclusively human spirit, nefesh in Genesis refers to
any breathing, physical, living
Let me guess. You selectively and "coincidentally" didn't happen to read
any of the articles where that was refuted. That Psalm 146:3-4 lie you >promote has already been refuted in several articles:
You twist Psalm 146:3-4 in a vain effort to support the doctrines of
soul sleep or total annihilation. The argument claims that because a
man's thoughts perish at death, conscious existence must cease. However,
a precise examination of the Hebrew grammar and context demonstrates
that this passage is not a treatise on the nature of the soul, but a
warning against placing ultimate trust in human rulers whose earthly
agendas end at death.
Lexical analysis reveals that the Hebrew word estonet can be translated
as plans, purposes, or thoughts. This lexical flexibility demonstrates
that the grammar allows for the understanding that the text refers to >earthly plans and the ability to carry them out, meaning there is no
textual obligation to interpret this passage as the cessation of
conscious existence.
Furthermore, the Hebrew verb avad, translated as perish, primarily
denotes a change of state, location, or functionusuch as being lost, >scattered, or rendered non-functionalurather than annihilation (1 Samuel >9:3, Psalm 119:176, Jeremiah 50:6, Ezekiel 34:4, Ecclesiastes 3:6). This
is consistent with its usage throughout the Old Testament, where it >describes lost livestock or stray sheep (1 Samuel 9:3, Psalm 119:176, >Jeremiah 50:6, Ezekiel 34:4).
The immediate context reinforces this understanding by addressing the >futility of trusting in princes for salvation. Men do not trust
political rulers simply because those rulers possess conscious thoughts,
but because they offer plans and promises of deliverance. When a ruler
dies, it is his ability to fulfill those earthly promises that perishes. >Interpreting this passage to mean the total cessation of consciousness >misconstrues the text and contradicts the explicit revelation of
scripture regarding the ongoing existence of the soul (Matthew 10:28).
_____________________
========================================
Wed, 13 May 2026 08:31:18 -0500,
<c4a06d6a-543f-4838-b2e9-ba3a97bb31a1@christrose.news
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul" in the Bible. >>>Argument 1: "It all depends on what the word "soul" means in a verse.
That is, you're saying the context determines the meaning. Well, the
context of Matthew 10:28 shows a contrast between the ability to kill
the body and the soul. Men can kill the body, they cannot kill the soul. >>> There's no self-deluded imagination that somehow makes that mean the
opposite of what it says, which is what your claims require. This
context necessitates that it means the soul survives the death of the body.
Notice, he does not address what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, which is
that men can kill the body, but not the soul. This necessitates a >distinction between man's soul and his physical body. Instead, he tries
to promote a distraction over the meaning of the word "hell". He does
this constantly. Whenever he gets cornered in a stupid lie that he can't >refute, he tries to turn the tables with a distraction over some other >issue.
Notice
ESV
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Do you trust a Scripture that lies? Your ESV here lied. Hell in the
Bible is Hades. And Hades will empty out its contents. But the
Scripture shows it to really be Gehenna. Notice this more accurate
translation:
(Matthew 10:28) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body
but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul
and body in Ge+hen?na.(NWT)
The stupid lie here, is that the translation choice for the word "hell" >somehow overcomes the fact that men can kill the body but cannot kill
the soul.
Here's why that's a stupid lie. To begin, you have failed to admit the
fact that men cannot kill the soul when they kill the body. Your Satan's >Witness LIE is that they are one and the same, so that if the body dies,
the soul necessarily dies with it, and ceases to exist upon physical
death. That cannot be. Jesus plainly states that men CAN kill the body
but they CANNOT kill the soul. That necessitates that the soul survives
the death of the physical body, and does NOT cease to exist when the
body dies.
The soul can be "destroyed", thus it is not immortal. (Gen 2:7)
More of your repeatedly refuted lies. The word "destroyed" [apollumi]
here is different than the word for "kill" [apokteino] (Matthew 10:28).
It is used frequently in the Bible to refer to things which are fully >conscious and/or in a state of existence, but which are in a condition
of being lost and ruined (lost coin (Luke 15:8-9), lost sheep (Luke
15:4-6), prodigal son (Luke 15:24, 32), man who was handed over to Satan
for the "destruction" of the flesh (1 Corinthians 5:5), etc.). Thus, we
are not contractually obligated to believe the lie that when it says God
can destroy the soul in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28), that it "actually"
means He makes the soul cease to exist.
Coupled with the many Scriptures which indicate that it
will be more tolerable for some than others in the day of judgment
(Matthew 11:22, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12), that it would have been better
for Judas if he had never been born (Matthew 26:24, Mark 14:21), that
the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:43, 48), that their worm does not die
(Mark 9:44, 46, 48), that they weep and gnash their teeth (Matthew 8:12, >13:42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, Luke 13:28), that the smoke of their
"torment" (Revelation 14:11) rises "day and night" (Revelation 14:11, >20:10), that they have "no rest" (Revelation 14:11), and that this
state of being goes on "forever and ever" (Revelation 14:11, 20:10),and
you have to be a determined liar and Bible-contradicting heretic to
promote your Bible-contradicting, brain-washed lies.
Argument 2: There are at least 4 different meanings of the word "soul"
in the Bible.
Now, after just stating that the context determines the correct meaning
of soul in a given context, you're trying to tell me that a remote
context determines the meaning of "soul" in Matthew 10:28? If you can
find some place else in the Bible where soul means something different,
then it must mean that Matthew 28:10
Make that Mt 10:28.
Notice, he did not answer the question or refute the argument. When he >doesn't like what Matthew 10:28 says, he points out that the word "soul"
can mean several different things, depending on the context. Then, the >hypocrite CONSISTENTLY tells us that remote Old Testament passages of >Scripture such as in Genesis, somehow determine the meaning of "soul" in >Matthew 10:28. Stupid hypocrite liar!
is using the remote context to
determine the meaning of the word? This just shows me how willfully
self-deluded you are.
??
idem. see above. You know you're a hypocrite idiot, because you have no >answer for this. You flip-flop constantly between your principles of >interpretation, depending on what you want the Bible to mean.
(1) a person. Gen 2:7
(2) a fish, etc. Gen 1:20
(3) a person's future life. (Mt 10:28)
(4) life. (Gen 35:18)
idem. Matthew 10:28 does not say "future life". It says men can kill the >>> body but cannot kill the soul. This "future life" is a doctrine you try
to impose on the text, to delude yourself and others that men can reject >>> Christ as Savior,
Dream on:
-- New King James
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through Me.
I never said to ignore Christ. You are being false here.
LIAR. Jesus said no one gets to the Father except through Him. You claim >it's through good works. You claim men's own physical death atones for
their sins. You promote a whole series of Bible-contradicting lies that
deny faith in Christ is the only way to salvation.
then somehow still escape conscious eternal torment in
the lake of fire. Your love of your own delusion just shows that God has >>> handed you over to strong delusion.
And pigs can fly!
idem.
_____________________
========================================
Mon, 18 Aug 2025 21:08:44 -0500,
<95ac2a98-dd24-4160-b7fa-018e87767906@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
3. "Souls" of fish (nephesh/psuch?)
Hebrew nephesh and Greek psuch? can mean oliving creature/life.o Animals >>> are called nephesh (Genesis 1:20) because they are living beings,
Fish are souls. (nephesh) crabs are souls (nephesh). Whales are souls
(nephesh) Etc, etc.
Do they all have immortal souls? When they die, where do their souls
go?
but
only man bears God's image (Genesis 1:27) and faces resurrection and
judgment (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29). Scripture does not teach an
afterlife destiny for animals; its focus is mankind. Insufficient data.
Scripture does not explain where animals "go" after death.
Thus when they die, souls die. And thus souls ARE NOT immortal.
"Thus" means the statement was correct. There is insufficient data to >determine what happens when fish die, because the Bible doesn't say.
That's not the case with man. It tells us man can kill the body but not
the soul (Matthew 10:28). The soul of a human survives the death of the >body. You have no answer for that other than distraction and lies, and >trying to pit one twisted interpretation of Scripture against other >Scripture. You promote confusion about Old Testament Scripture, and try
to present it in a way that contradicts the clear revelation of the New >Testament about the conscious existence of men's souls after death.
How about a "soul" craving to eat meat. (flesh) (Deut 12:20)
How about a soul containing blood. (Jer 2:34)
Can't you see how a "soul" defines a person?
idem.
_____________________
========================================
Fri, 25 Oct 2024 22:01:47 -0500,
<072033ff-c4ad-4ceb-8dad-a45b4be452a0@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
2. The Term oSoulo in Various Contexts:
James points out that osoulo (*nephesh*) is used for animals in Genesis
1:20 and for physical desires in Deuteronomy 12:20. This does not negate >>> the distinct teaching about human souls. The Bible uses words in a
variety of ways based on context, but it distinguishes human beings as
created in God's image, with eternal accountability (Genesis 1:27;
Ecclesiastes 12:7). While fish are described as "living souls" in a
general sense, Scripture reserves unique language for humans, reflecting >>> their spiritual nature.
King David didn't think so: Eccles 3:19,20.
Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture. That's how it's obvious you
promote lies. You don't even bother offering an explanation of how your >understanding of Ecclesiastes harmonizes with passages like Matthew
10:28, where it directly states men can kill the body but can't kill the >soul. There's no scenario where that is consistent with your lie that
the soul ceases to exist when the physical body dies.
19. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even
one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea,
they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a
beast: for all is vanity.
20. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust
again. (KJV)
_____________________
========================================
Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:23:44 -0500,
<tr3kcjljok6g0979qt8sf859pucg4gvttf@christrose.news>
Christ Rose <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
========================================
[Satan's Witness wrote:]
That's right. As Satan's Witness, we witness the facts about the evil
Satan; How he ruined everlasting life for all humans.
More satanic lies. Satan didn't ruin everlasting life for anyone who
trusts in Christ for salvation:
oMy sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give
them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch
them out of my hand.o (John 10:27u28, ESV)
oAnd this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life
is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the
Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe
in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal >life.o (1 John 5:11u13, ESV)
Before Gen 2:7, it calls FISH as being "souls". Gen 1:20,
-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living >>>> souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens. >>>> BUT WAIT A MINUTE, you might say. All the Bibles I looked at say
"living creatures" not "living souls". No problem. Just simply look up >>>> the Hebrew word for "creatures" there. It is NEPHESH, which is the
Hebrew OT word for "soul". So do fish have immortal souls also?
(Christendom is quiet on this one)
For clarity and lack of confusion, I
would recommend the principle of clear
reference. Instead of going and looking
for a way to find an apparent
contradiction in some Old Testament
verse, just look at what the
overwhelming mass of clear data clearly
indicates in the epistles.
God's worshipers are to REASON on the Scriptures:
Which does not conveniently exclude and contradict what the Bible
clearly and abundantly teaches in the more progressive revelation of the
New Testament.
You ignore and contradict what the New Testament teaches about the state
of men's souls after the death of their bodies, and try to confine the
whole doctrine to a contradictory understanding of a few verses of
Scripture in the Old Testament.
-- King James
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three
sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
idem. You're not reasoning from the Scriptures. You simply contradict
the clearer revelation of the New Testament with a twisted
interpretation of the Old Testament.
You're trying to establish doctrines
which were not even fully revealed yet,
based on a narrow interpretation of old
testament passages which were not the
final form of revelation on the subject.
Look more to what the epistles teach.
Did you forget?
-- King James
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness:
THAT INCLUDES THE OT.
idem. This proves your interpretation of the Old Testament is a twisted
lie, since you promote an understanding of it which ignores and
contradicts what the New Testament abundantly teaches about the souls of
men after physical death.
_____________________
Thus, you have a long, long pattern not just of trying to pit Old
Testament Scripture against clear New Testament revelation about the
afterlife, but of then pretending like no one has ever addressed your
contradictions.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself.
Which it's obvious your proposals about the meaning of the Old Testament
are twisted lies.
You did the same thing, claiming no one has ever addressed your efforts
to undermine the fact Christ is God, even after I posted 18 message ID's >>> where I directly addressed each and every one of your claims.
Yes, you do. And I appreciate that. That's the way it should be
Yet you'd have us believe this pattern points to selective, ongoing,
random "coincidences", rather than exposing you as a determined liar?
This is why I say you're not honest enough to carry on an edifying
conversation with. You just keep repeating the same refuted claims over
and over again, then PRETEND like no one has even addressed them as if
it bolsters your claims.
I have no such intentions. And I repeat things because the churches
have come up with their own doctrines and false reasonings.
You cannot refute the documented pattern that you continuously pretend
like no one has even offered an explanation about your claims in here,
when they can cite 18 message-IDs that show they have. That shows you >misrepresent what others say. You'd have us believe that's all due to a >random, ongoing series of "coincidental" oversights and "forgetfulness"
on your part. Likewise, you deny what the New Testament says, by
twisting Old Testament Scripture as if they contradict it.
For example, When a youth, the RCC said as soon as an OT person dies,
he went straight to 'hell' or right to Heaven. Yet Jesus said no OT
person ever went to Heaven.
Jesus did not say no Old Testament person went to heaven. That lie has
also been repeatedly refuted from Scripture. Jesus spoke there before
the cross. At that time, paradise was in Abraham's bosom. After He
ascended, paradise was moved to heaven.
You repeat the same, refuted, brain-washed lies over and over:
This claim was made before Jesus ascended. Paradise was in Abraham's
bosom until Christ ascended, then it was moved to heaven.
The Conscious Comfort of Old Testament Saints Before Christ's Resurrection
(1) Luke 16:22u"The poor man died and was carried by the angels to
Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried." (Luke 16:22 ESV)
"CARRIED... TO ABRAHAM'S SIDE." Before the death and resurrection of
Jesus Christ, departed believers did not immediately ascend to the
highest heaven. Instead, they were carried by angels to a place of
conscious comfort, fellowship, and rest, referred to by our Lord as >"Abraham's side" (or "Abraham's bosom").
(2) Luke 23:43u"And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will
be with me in paradise.'" (Luke 23:43 ESV)
"TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE." Jesus promised the dying thief
that they would be together in "Paradise" that very day. Since Jesus did
not ascend to the Father's throne until after His resurrection (John
20:17), this "Paradise" was the temporary place of comfort for the
righteous dead, located in the heart of the earth.
First Proposition: Before the resurrection of Christ, departed Old
Testament believers went to a place of conscious, happy rest called
Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, where they eagerly awaited the finished
work of the Messiah.
The Translation of Elijah and Enoch
(1) 2 Kings 2:11u"And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots
of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up
by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11 ESV)
"ELIJAH WENT UP... INTO HEAVEN." The Bible records that God made
sovereign exceptions for certain Old Testament prophets, translating
them directly into His heavenly presence without experiencing physical >death.
(2) Hebrews 11:5u"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see >death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he
was taken he was commended as having pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5 ESV)
"ENOCH WAS TAKEN UP." Just like Elijah, Enoch was taken directly by God
into His presence.
Second Proposition: While the general assembly of Old Testament saints >waited in Paradise, God made sovereign exceptions for Elijah and Enoch, >translating them directly into His presence as a testimony to their faith.
The Emptying of Paradise at Christ's Ascension
(1) Ephesians 4:8-9u"Therefore it says, 'When he ascended on high he led
a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.' (In saying, 'He
ascended,' what does it mean but that he had also descended into the
lower regions, the earth?)" (Ephesians 4:8-9 ESV)
"HE LED A HOST OF CAPTIVES." When Jesus Christ ascended into heaven
after His resurrection, He did not go alone. He went down into the lower >regions (the Paradise of Hades), emptied it of the Old Testament saints
who were waiting there, and escorted them triumphantly into the highest >heaven.
(2) 2 Corinthians 12:2-4u"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago
was caught up to the third heaven... and he heard things that cannot be >told, which man may not utter." (2 Corinthians 12:2-4 ESV)
"CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN... INTO PARADISE." The Apostle Paul makes
it clear that Paradise is no longer down in the heart of the earth, but
is now located in the "third heaven"uthe very presence of God's throne.
(3) Hebrews 11:39-40u"And all these, though commended through their
faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had planned
something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made >perfect." (Hebrews 11:39-40 ESV)
"THAT APART FROM US THEY SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT." The Old Testament >believers could not enter the final, perfected heavenly glory until the >blood of Jesus Christ was shed to pay for their sins. Once that
sacrifice was made, they were made perfect and ushered into heaven.
Third Proposition: At His glorious ascension, Jesus Christ relocated >Paradise from the heart of the earth to the highest heaven, leading the
Old Testament saints out of their temporary abode and into the immediate >presence of God.
How can someone be trusted to give an accurate
representation of what the Bible says, when he denies and lies about
what the people who respond to him say?
?? Please give me an example.
That statement right there is your most recent example, since it was
shown above that you continually deny that people have even addressed
your claims and reasoning, after they produce 18 articles which show
they have.
Can we ever get to see a lasting peace? The Bible's coming peace may
surprise you.
No one will experience peace who believes your Satan's Witnesses lies.--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
You promote a false Christ and a false gospel that will result in the
very eternal, conscious torment for those you pretend to "comfort" with
lies about how they can reject Christ and still avoid the conscious
eternal torment justice calls for.
-- New King James
1 Timothy 6:4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with
disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife,
reviling, evil suspicions,
That goes for both of us. We seem to have "arguments over words" and
"evil suspicions", and "disputes" etc.
Then I think it is about time (past time) that we cease our
discussions with each other. The name calling is getting worse.
Probably should have stopped a long time ago.
I do thank you for your conversations, esp at first. Maybe some day we
will be in agreement. (:>)
(I have looked down below here, and it is the same arguments as
before.)
Take care.
Sincerely James
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