From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

First Proposition

The soul of man remains fully conscious after physical death

Luke 16:22-24

The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24 ESV)

The Lord Jesus Christ gives a clear account of life immediately following physical death. The physical body is buried, but the individual remains fully conscious. The soul does not temporarily cease to exist. It possesses memory, the ability to speak, and the capacity to feel comfort or pain.

Philippians 1:23

I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. (Philippians 1:23 ESV)
The Apostle Paul states that departing from this earthly life means immediate and conscious fellowship with Christ. An unconscious sleep or a cessation of existence is not far better than living and serving Christ on earth. Conscious fellowship with Him is.

Second Proposition

Death in the Scriptures signifies separation rather than cessation of existence:

Ephesians 2:1

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1 ESV)

A person can be physically alive yet spiritually dead at the same time. Spiritual death is separation from God because of sin, not cessation of existence.

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4 ESV)

When the Scriptures state that the soul who sins shall die, it refers to the penalty of sin, which is spiritual and eternal separation from God. It does not mean the soul passes out of existence.

rCLrCLThen he will say to those on his left, rCyDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.rCY (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

rCLJust as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.rCY (Matthew 13:40rCo43, ESV)

rCLsince indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.rCY (2 Thessalonians 1:6rCo10, ESV)

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 ESV)

rCLAnd another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, rCLIf anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of GodrCOs wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.rCYrCY (Revelation 14:9rCo11, ESV)

rCLAnd they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY (Revelation 20:9rCo10, ESV)

God defines the ultimate penalty for sin as the second death, which is to be cast into the lake of fire. This is a state of eternal and conscious separation from God.

Third Proposition

The biblical description of death as sleep refers to the physical body alone:

1 Thessalonians 4:14

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. (1 Thessalonians 4:14 ESV)

When the Scriptures speak of believers sleeping, it refers to the physical body resting in the grave awaiting the resurrection. The soul goes immediately to be with the Lord. This is why God brings their conscious souls with Jesus when He returns to awaken their physical bodies.

Fourth Proposition

The perishing of earthly thoughts does not mean the cessation of consciousness:

Psalm 146:4

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4 KJV)

The Hebrew word translated thoughts refers to earthly plans, schemes, and ambitions. A man's daily plans for this world come to an abrupt end upon physical death. It does not mean his mind ceases to function, as the Lord Jesus has already clearly demonstrated the dead speaking, remembering, and reasoning in eternity.

Fifth Proposition

The Scriptures expressly deny the theory of reincarnation

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27 ESV)

This single statement entirely destroys the false teaching of reincarnation. God decrees that man dies exactly one time. He does not return to this earth to live multiple lives. The very next event following this single death is judgment.

2 Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me. (2 Samuel 12:23 ESV)

When a person dies, they do not return to this world. King David understood that he would eventually go into eternity to join those who had gone before, but the dead do not come back to this earth. The demons may deceive the world with tales of past lives, but the plain word of God settles the matter permanently.
--
Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Thu, 14 May 2026 10:40:25 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

Yes, that is what the churches teach. But get this, THAT IS NOT WHAT
THE BIBLE TEACHES! See below.

First Proposition

The soul of man remains fully conscious after physical death

The soul IS the man. The man is a soul:

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.

Notice, the man wasn't 'given' a soul, rather, at life, he BECAME a
soul.

Luke 16:22-24

The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24 ESV)

That is a parable. What is a parable?

On Thu, 14 May 2026 10:40:25 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

Yes, that is what the churches teach. But get this, THAT IS NOT WHAT
THE BIBLE TEACHES! See below.

First Proposition

The soul of man remains fully conscious after physical death

The soul IS the man. The man is a soul:

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.

Notice, the man wasn't 'given' a soul, rather, at life he BECAME a
soul.

Luke 16:22-24

The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24 ESV)

That is a parable. What is a parable?

"A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, that
illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs
from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects,
or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human
characters.[1] A parable is a type of metaphorical analogy.[2]" (AI)

The Lord Jesus Christ gives a clear account of life immediately following physical death. The physical body is buried, but the individual remains fully conscious. The soul does not temporarily cease to exist. It possesses memory, the ability to speak, and the capacity to feel comfort or pain.

Jesus said the dead were "sleeping". He wouldn't say that if the dead
were still alive and conscious. (Mt 11:11)

Philippians 1:23

I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. (Philippians 1:23 ESV)
The Apostle Paul states that departing from this earthly life means immediate and conscious fellowship with Christ. An unconscious sleep or a cessation of existence is not far better than living and serving Christ on earth. Conscious fellowship with Him is.

You are forgetting something again. There are two possible eternal
futures. One is Heaven, the other is the earth. Paul, as part of the
144,000 (Rev 14:1), immediately go straight to Heaven when they die.
They do not experience the 'sleep' Jesus talked about. They are given
a SPIRIT body to get into Heaven with.

Those that are "sleeping" in their 'graves', cease to exist until the resurrection of the dead. (Acts 24:15) Here is the proof from God's
inspired word: Ps 146:3,4,

3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy
might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in
the grave, whither thou goest.

Second Proposition

Death in the Scriptures signifies separation rather than cessation of existence:

Ephesians 2:1

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1 ESV)

A person can be physically alive yet spiritually dead at the same time. Spiritual death is separation from God because of sin, not cessation of existence.

Yes, there are a spiritual death, and a physical death. There are a
spiritual life, and a physical life, etc, etc.

But the Psalms above and Ecclesiastes are not talking about a
spiritual death, but a physical death. And they clearly show that
there is no awareness for the earthly dead.

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4 ESV)

When the Scriptures state that the soul who sins shall die, it refers to the penalty of sin, which is spiritual and eternal separation from God. It does not mean the soul passes out of existence.

The soul IS THE PERSON. (Gen 2:7) So when a person dies, a soul dies.
The word "soul" also has several other meanings. For our discussion
right now, it means Gen 2:7.

ooThen he will say to those on his left, aDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.o (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

"Eternal fire" eternal destruction. But it is explained more down a
few verses:

-- King James
Matthew 25:46

Notice the contrast between life eternal and everlasting punishment.
Those in that alleged literal fire are still living forever. Just not
under ideal circumstances. So here is what you are contrasting.

'And these shall go away into everlasting life: but the righteous into
life eternal.'

oJust as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.o (Matthew 13:40u43, ESV)

It's not all literal in those verses. Is there gigantic furnaces
there?
Can the righteous actually shine like the sun? The luminosity of the
sun is so bright, that we can't even look at it with the naked eye.
Your own brightness would fry your optic nerves.

osince indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.o (2 Thessalonians 1:6u10, ESV)

Yes, "eternal destruction".

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 ESV)

Can "death" be burned by a literal fire? Can Hades (hell) be damaged
by fire?

oAnd another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, oIf anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of GodAs wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.oo (Revelation 14:9u11, ESV)

That one is loaded with symbolism. Beast, beast image, mark, wine,
cup, fire, sulfur, Lamb, smoke.

oAnd they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.o (Revelation 20:9u10, ESV)

Where is the "camp of the saints"? Where is the "beloved city"? What
is the beast? Who is the false prophet? If you take everything
literally, a lot of questions pop up.

God defines the ultimate penalty for sin as the second death, which is to be cast into the lake of fire. This is a state of eternal and conscious separation from God.

You misquoted the Scripture. The second death is NOT thrown into the
lake of fire. Rather the lake of fire IS the second death. So your
"fire" is being put out by being "death". Is death a fire? No.

Third Proposition

The biblical description of death as sleep refers to the physical body alone:

The Bible equates death as sleep:

-- New King James
John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our
friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.''

A dead body is no longer a person. It is rotting meat and bones.
The Scripture says "Lazarus" was sleeping. Thus that was the PERSON
Lazarus. If he was your church immortal soul, the soul was sleeping.
So he still is not conscious when dead, whether an immortal soul or a
body.

1 Thessalonians 4:14

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. (1 Thessalonians 4:14 ESV)

When the Scriptures speak of believers sleeping, it refers to the physical body resting in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

Then what about those right under the atomic bomb where their bodies
were vaporized? Do they come back as gasses?

The soul goes immediately to be with the Lord. This is why God brings
their conscious souls with Jesus when He returns to awaken their
physical bodies.

What, will there be a bunch of skeletons around? Spooky.
Actually, they all will be given new bodies, that probably resembled
their former ones so that recognition will occur.

Fourth Proposition

The perishing of earthly thoughts does not mean the cessation of consciousness:

Psalm 146:4

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4 KJV)

The Hebrew word translated thoughts refers to earthly plans, schemes, and ambitions. A man's daily plans for this world come to an abrupt end upon physical death. It does not mean his mind ceases to function, as the Lord Jesus has already clearly demonstrated the dead speaking, remembering, and reasoning in eternity.

Notice:

"Strong's Ref. # 7476

Romanized ra`yown
Pronounced rah-yone'

(Aramaic) corresponding to HSN7475; a grasp. i.e. (figuratively)
mental conception:

KJV--cogitation, thought."

It doesn't say anything about earthly thought. You are making it sound
like their is TWO of us always. One with a brain, and one that is a supernatural soul. But in reality, there is only one. The thoughts we
have when alive.

Fifth Proposition

The Scriptures expressly deny the theory of reincarnation

I totally agree, as my posting showed.

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27 ESV)

This single statement entirely destroys the false teaching of reincarnation. God decrees that man dies exactly one time. He does not return to this earth to live multiple lives. The very next event following this single death is judgment.

2 Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me. (2 Samuel 12:23 ESV)

When a person dies, they do not return to this world. King David understood that he would eventually go into eternity to join those who had gone before, but the dead do not come back to this earth. The demons may deceive the world with tales of past lives, but the plain word of God settles the matter permanently.

The Lord Jesus Christ gives a clear account of life immediately following physical death. The physical body is buried, but the individual remains fully conscious. The soul does not temporarily cease to exist. It possesses memory, the ability to speak, and the capacity to feel comfort or pain.

Then you are saying there is no such thing as death for humans. Humans
are always alive either in the body or in a supernatural soul. Then
you are showing the Bible to be wrong when it speaks of death over 700
times in the Bible.

Philippians 1:23

I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. (Philippians 1:23 ESV)
The Apostle Paul states that departing from this earthly life means immediate and conscious fellowship with Christ. An unconscious sleep or a cessation of existence is not far better than living and serving Christ on earth. Conscious fellowship with Him is.

As I mentioned the first time, there are two destinations for an
eternal future. One is the earth, and the other is Heaven. The 144,000 immediately go to Heaven when they die. There they will rule as kings
and priests over the earth with Jesus during his 1000 year rule.

Second Proposition

Death in the Scriptures signifies separation rather than cessation of existence:

Not at all. The resurrection of Acts 24:15 will be bad and good.
Humans will be separated from God physically since the human body
cannot exist in front of Almighty God, the Creator of billions of
suns and galaxies etc.

Ephesians 2:1

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1 ESV)

A person can be physically alive yet spiritually dead at the same time. Spiritual death is separation from God because of sin, not cessation of existence.

I never said that being spiritually dead was non-existence. It instead
is symbolism of a spiritual death-like state.

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4 ESV)

When the Scriptures state that the soul who sins shall die, it refers to the penalty of sin, which is spiritual and eternal separation from God. It does not mean the soul passes out of existence.

You get confused when you speak of an immortal soul. You are basing a
lot on that. Nowhere does the Bible state a soul is immortal.
The Bible does say a soul can equal fish etc, a person, life, and a
future life. It also says a soul can crave to eat meat. So it has more
than one meaning.

ooThen he will say to those on his left, aDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.o (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

oJust as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.o (Matthew 13:40u43, ESV)

osince indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.o (2 Thessalonians 1:6u10, ESV)

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 ESV)

oAnd another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, oIf anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of GodAs wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.oo (Revelation 14:9u11, ESV)

oAnd they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.o (Revelation 20:9u10, ESV)

God defines the ultimate penalty for sin as the second death, which is to be cast into the lake of fire. This is a state of eternal and conscious separation from God.

Third Proposition

The biblical description of death as sleep refers to the physical body alone:

1 Thessalonians 4:14

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. (1 Thessalonians 4:14 ESV)

When the Scriptures speak of believers sleeping, it refers to the physical body resting in the grave awaiting the resurrection. The soul goes immediately to be with the Lord. This is why God brings their conscious souls with Jesus when He returns to awaken their physical bodies.

Fourth Proposition

The perishing of earthly thoughts does not mean the cessation of consciousness:

Psalm 146:4

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4 KJV)

The Hebrew word translated thoughts refers to earthly plans, schemes, and ambitions. A man's daily plans for this world come to an abrupt end upon physical death. It does not mean his mind ceases to function, as the Lord Jesus has already clearly demonstrated the dead speaking, remembering, and reasoning in eternity.

Already covered most of that above. See above.

Fifth Proposition

The Scriptures expressly deny the theory of reincarnation

Again I agree

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27 ESV)

This single statement entirely destroys the false teaching of reincarnation. God decrees that man dies exactly one time. He does not return to this earth to live multiple lives. The very next event following this single death is judgment.

2 Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me. (2 Samuel 12:23 ESV)

When a person dies, they do not return to this world.

Then what does this mean?

-- King James
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also
allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the
just and unjust.

And

-- King James
Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein
for ever.

When Jesus quoted this verse at Mt 5:5, instead of "land", he said
"earth".

-- King James
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Putting the two together we get:

'Blessed are the righteous and the meek, for they shall inherit the
land of the earth, and dwell on it for ever'.

King David understood that he would eventually go into eternity to join those who had gone before, but the dead do not come back to this earth.

See right above.

The demons may deceive the world with tales of past lives, but the plain word of God settles the matter permanently.

Yes, the demons want to make the Bible one big lie. So they work hard
at ghosts (people live after they die which the Bible says no),
and reincarnation. (people keep being born more than once. The Bible
says no) And on and on.

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Thu, 14 May 2026 17:51:21 -0500,
<jh5c0l94cno2ckbgk1coutajub8eungdhh@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote: ========================================

On Thu, 14 May 2026 10:40:25 -0500, Christ Rose<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

Yes, that is what the churches teach. But get this, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES! See below.

No, liar. That's how you try to frame it to deny what the Bible says.
--
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Thu, 14 May 2026 17:51:21 -0500,
<jh5c0l94cno2ckbgk1coutajub8eungdhh@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote: ========================================

[Luke 16]
The soul of man remains fully conscious after physical death

The soul IS the man.

Luke 16, the passage which you're trying to flee from here, flatly shows what happens to the soul after the body dies. It continues in conscious torment or comfort.

Jesus doesn't teach lies, even when He uses parables. Notice, He does not seek, here, to comfort people with the delusion that men will enjoy the comfort of simply ceasing to exist if they reject Christ as Savior, like your Satanic, false gospel does.

Nothing in the Bible contradicts this New Testament revelation, especially not your effort to isolate some Old Testament passage from the clear NT insights.

You have no answer for the plain statements of Scripture, other than to try and pit one Scripture against another, as you do below.

The man is a soul:-- King JamesGenesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice, the man wasn't 'given' a soul, rather, at life he BECAME a soul.

Notice, it says God breathed into man the breath of life.

Clue: The life came from God, not from the dust.

This teaches nothing whatsoever, which contradicts Jesus' teaching in Luke 16. --
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Thu, 14 May 2026 19:37:07 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

========================================
Thu, 14 May 2026 17:51:21 -0500,
<jh5c0l94cno2ckbgk1coutajub8eungdhh@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
========================================

[Luke 16]
The soul of man remains fully conscious after physical death

The soul IS the man.

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.

If you "became" something, you take on those characteristics. Thus
Adam BECAME a soul when he was given life. Thus in this instance the
whole physical body = soul.

Luke 16, the passage which you're trying to flee from here, flatly shows what happens to the soul after the body dies. It continues in conscious torment or comfort.

Only a sadist tortures. What do you think God does when you accuse Him
of being a sadist? You are creating a god worse than Hitler. At least
Hitler let those tortured die. Your god keeps them living during the
torture.

Jesus doesn't teach lies, even when He uses parables. Notice, He does not seek, here, to comfort people with the delusion that men will enjoy the comfort of simply ceasing to exist

If you don't exist, you don't feel comfort. The Bible always contrasts
LIFE and DEATH, not life and a life of torture.

if they reject Christ as Savior, like your Satanic, false gospel does.

We teach the Bible's teaching of a paradise earth (Luke 23:43; Mt
5:5), where most humans (dead or alive) will live in super comfort.
Pain and suffering will be gone forever. Old age and death will be no
more. As for the wicked, they will mercifully cease to exist. That's
the false gospel you accuse JW's of. Now let's see yours.

The righteous will go to Heaven to be with God. But the wicked will be
tortured with painful fire FOREVER. Your god will not let them die. He
will keep them in pain and suffering eternally. If that isn't Satanic,
then nothing is.
You are not Satan's witnesses, you and the churches are its slaves,
carrying out its demented acts. FOR SHAME to do that to a loving God.
(1 John 4:8) Jesus here hit the nail right on the head:

21. "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22. "Many will say to Me in that day, `Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many
wonders in Your name?'
23. "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from
Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Mt 7:21-23; NKJV)

Nothing in the Bible contradicts this New Testament revelation, especially not your effort to isolate some Old Testament passage from the clear NT insights.

Yes, you just ignore the OT saying it is out of date. But the OT
prophesied the coming of the Messiah, his agony, and death. Yes, the
Mosaic Laws were done away with by Jesus dying. Yet the OT is full of prophecies and predictions of things yet to come. The Psalms and
Proverbs are relative to our day.

The whole Bible is inspired of God, not just the NT. (2 Tim 3:16)

You have no answer for the plain statements of Scripture, other than to try and pit one Scripture against another, as you do below.

You are supposed to REASON on the Scriptures. Paul provided an example
for us:

-- New King James
Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

The man is a soul:-- King JamesGenesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice, the man wasn't 'given' a soul, rather, at life he BECAME a soul.

Notice, it says God breathed into man the breath of life.

Clue: The life came from God, not from the dust.

I never said it did. But when he became alive, he became a "soul". We
use similar words today. For aircraft those in the tower on the
ground, ask the pilot, "How many souls on board?" And they are not
talking about a metaphysical entity, but persons on board.

This teaches nothing whatsoever, which contradicts Jesus' teaching in Luke 16.

What teaching? How does it contradict something? Show me the
Scriptures. As they say, put your money where your mouth is.

" Wisdom for Family Happiness
What can husbands, wives, parents, and children do to enjoy a happy
family?
Find Out "
See jw.org (5/15/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me
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On Thu, 14 May 2026 18:58:49 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

========================================
Thu, 14 May 2026 17:51:21 -0500,
<jh5c0l94cno2ckbgk1coutajub8eungdhh@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
========================================

On Thu, 14 May 2026 10:40:25 -0500, Christ Rose<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

Yes, that is what the churches teach. But get this, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES! See below.

No, liar. That's how you try to frame it to deny what the Bible says.

You and your churches make the Bible God out to be a sadistic monster.
We teach what He really is:

-- New King James
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His
ways are justice, a God of truth and without injustice; righteous and
upright is He.

If you drop Christendom's god, and obey the Bible God, you will find
out He is called by a name, and that He is really a God of love,
regardless what the churches of Christendom says. (1 John 4:8)

" Wisdom for Family Happiness
What can husbands, wives, parents, and children do to enjoy a happy
family?
Find Out "
See jw.org (5/15/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me
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========================================
Fri, 15 May 2026 11:42:56 -0500,
<a08e0lth5gk8sig1fut4avuvok1kdbdarc@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote: ========================================

[ChristRose wrote]
This teaches nothing whatsoever, which contradicts Jesus' teaching in Luke 16.

What teaching?

This shows you are too dishonest to carry on an edifying conversation. You know what Luke 16 teaches. It plainy shows that when the body dies, the soul goes to a place of either conscious torment or comfort. Jesus didn't teach lies, even when He used parables.

Your lie that the soul ceases to exist contradicts that plain teaching, and no passage you have ever cited has either said, necessitated, or justified such a contradictory interpretation.
--
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

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========================================
Fri, 15 May 2026 11:42:56 -0500,
<a08e0lth5gk8sig1fut4avuvok1kdbdarc@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote: ========================================

[ChristRose wrote]
Luke 16, the passage which you're trying to flee from here, flatly shows what happens to the soul after the body dies. It continues in conscious torment or comfort.

Only a sadist tortures.

Don't try to blame God for your sin. Torment is the just consequence of sin. Further, it will be of no use to you or any deluded person who believes your false gospel, that you agree with one another to believe a lie.

The Justice Of God In The Condemnation Of Sinners

1. Divine Justice and the Law

(1) Galatians 3:10rCo"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.'" (Galatians 3:10 ESV)

The Law of God is a perfect standard. Every person who fails to keep every single part of that Law perfectly and constantly is, by the Law's own declaration, "cursed." Because God is just, He must uphold the sentence that His own Law demands.

(2) Ezekiel 18:20rCo"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." (Ezekiel 18:20 ESV)

GodrCOs justice is individual and absolute. It is right for God to punish sin because the "wickedness of the wicked" belongs to the sinner himself. Justice does not stand in the way of the sinnerrCOs destruction; rather, it calls for it.

Proposition: The Justice of God and the rule of righteousness require the punishment of the sinner.

2. The Present Condition of the Unbeliever

(1) John 3:18rCo"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (John 3:18 ESV)

The sinner is not merely in danger of future condemnation; he is "condemned already." The sentence has been passed by the Supreme Judge. God is just in executing a sentence that has already been legally established by the sinner's own unbelief.

(2) Psalm 7:11rCo"God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day." (Psalm 7:11 ESV)

God does not look upon sin with indifference. As a "righteous judge," His holy anger is directed toward the wicked constantly. His justice is not a dormant feeling but an active attribute that is ready to be exercised at any moment.

Proposition: The sinner is already under a legal sentence of death, and GodrCOs righteous indignation is already directed toward him.

3. The Lack of Divine Obligation

(1) Romans 9:15-16rCo"For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." (Romans 9:15-16 ESV)

God is under no debt to any person to keep them out of the lake of fire. Mercy is a free gift, not a right that a rebel can demand. If God chooses to withhold mercy from those who have broken His law, He is doing them no wrong; He is simply being just.

(2) Romans 3:19rCo"Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God." (Romans 3:19 ESV)

Every sinner is "accountable to God." This means the sinner has nothing to say in his own defense. When God condemns the sinner, every mouth is "stopped" because the justice of the condemnation is self-evident.

Proposition: God is under no obligation, by any promise or debt, to preserve the unregenerate from the consequences of their sin.

4. The Destructive Nature of Sin

(1) Romans 6:23rCo"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23 ESV)

Death is not an arbitrary punishment; it is the "wages" of sin. It is what sin has earned. Just as a worker is justly paid his wages, the sinner is justly paid with death.

(2) Isaiah 1:31rCo"And the strong shall become tinder, and his work a spark, and both of them shall burn together, with none to quench them." (Isaiah 1:31 ESV)
Sin itself is like a "spark" and the sinner like "tinder." Sin is inherently ruinous and destructive to the soul. In condemning the sinner, God is allowing the nature of sin to reach its logical and just conclusion.

Proposition: Sin is a destructive power that earns the wage of death, and God is just in allowing that wage to be paid.

Summary: By the demands of the Law, the present state of condemnation, the absence of any divine debt to the rebel, and the inherently ruinous nature of sin, the Bible teaches that God is perfectly just in the condemnation of sinners.
--
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

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========================================
Fri, 15 May 2026 11:52:42 -0500,
<j9je0l9k0m24dc0ioujgq66mt4vdt0qaot@4ax.com>
Satan's Witness (SW) zebrabible@proton.me wrote: ========================================

Christ Rose<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:Eternal, Conscious Torment Awaits Those Who Reject Christ

Yes, that is what the churches teach...

You illustrated my point. Your lie is that this is a teaching of the church, but not the Bible. The teaching comes directly from the Bible:

The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42, WEB)

So will it be at the end of the age. The angels will come ahead, and separate the wicked from among the righteous, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:49-50, WEB)

Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;' (Matthew 25:41, WEB)

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46, WEB)

...to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, 'where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.' (Mark 9:43-48, WEB)

The beggar died, and he was carried by the angels to AbrahamrCOs bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in agony in this flame.' (Luke 16:22-24, WEB)

He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn't believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. (John 3:18, WEB)

One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36, WEB)

in flaming fire giving vengeance to those who don't know God, and to those who don't obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus is Christ. These will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might, (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, WEB)

Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11, WEB)

The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. (Revelation 19:20, WEB)

The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10, WEB)

If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15, WEB)

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8, WEB)

Now we will see that it is your lies which contradict what these Bible passages plainly teach: the eternal, conscious torment of those who did not love the truth of the gospel.
--
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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On Mon, 11 May 2026 07:48:14 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

Sound exegesis does not impose on one passage of Scripture, an interpretation which clearly contradicts the testimony of the overwhelming mass of clear Bible data on any given subject. Yet that's about all "Watchtower" heretics can do to try and prop up their false, Bible-contradicting lies.

Well, make REAL SURE that you have Jehovah's Witnesses pegged as a
false religion. Because if they are not........,then you are actually
fighting against God's organization.

The integrity of the Greek text

The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, and the integrity of the text is maintained through the thousands of extant manuscripts.

Well, the number of them by JW's, is many

The terms Kyrios and Theos are the inspired titles used by the apostles and gospel writers to refer to the Lord.

According to you!!
Moving West
You make no room for Bible copyists tainting the Scriptures. WE KNOW
THAT TO BE A FACT!

For example, the 4th century LXX DID FALSIFY the Scriptures. Every
time they ran into the Tetragrammaton, they translated it as "Lord",
which is ridiculous. Yet OLDER fragments of Scripture shows the
Tetragrammaton intact. Thus the original writing contained the
Tetragrammaton around 7000 times in the LXX.

Superstitious Jews did a similar thing with the NT. Even when the OT
containing the Tetragrammaton was quoted, they threw out the
Tetragrammaton and inserted "Lord" or "God".

There is more of a personal relationship when you know one's name. The
Jews took that away from Bible believers.

And instead you can call Him by a name, Jehovah, God.

The biblical evidence shows that the writers of the New Testament consistently applied these titles to both the Father and the Son, establishing that Jesus is God without the need for inserting names not found in the Greek text.

You like to live dangerously, don't you?

Dream on... The apostle Paul, who knew Jesus intimately, showed that
Jesus WAS NOT, IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE, GOD:

-- King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.

That was written at a time that Jesus was already in Heaven with his
Father, Jehovah. Even the popular KJV acknowledges that name:

-- King James
Psalms 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is
Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

The nature of the soul

The Bible presents the soul as the seat of personhood, emotion, and will, which exists in a relationship with God that transcends physical death.

The Scriptures tell us that man IS A SOUL:

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.

Thus when Adam became a man, he BECAME a soul.

As for the churches' teaching that the soul is immortal, you decide:

-- King James
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall
die.

Also, fish and other creatures of the sea, are called "souls".

"And God went on to say: "Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living
souls [nephesh] and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the
face of the expanse of the heavens."" [brackets mine]

Did you know that a SOUL craves meat?

-- King James
Deuteronomy 12:20 When the Lord thy God shall enlarge thy border, as
he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because
thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy
soul lusteth after.

Nowhere in the Bible is the use of the Hebrew word "nephesh" or the
Greek word "psykhe" ever associated with the thought of being
immortal.

In Mark 12:26-27, the text records Jesus stating that God is not the God of the dead, bu1t of the living, affirming the ongoing existence of the patriarchs.

It also says the dead cannot go to work, etc

Actually, Your steak should be fine

That's your conclusion on what it means. Yes. He is a God of the
living, which resides in His mind until the resurrection. (Acts 24:15)

This survival of the soul is necessitated by the command in Matthew 10:28, where Jesus specifically noted that men can kill the body but are not able to kill the soul.

Guess who can KILL a soul.

But it says that God can KILL the soul. So the soul is not immortal.

REMEMBER,



Soul has more than one meaning. In this case it means his future life.
Men cannot stop you from acquiring everlasting life. Yes, they can
kill the body, but not your chance for eternal life.

Jesus further confirmed that physical death is not the cessation of existence when He stated it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for certain cities (Matthew 11:24), and that it would have been better for Judas if he had never been born (Matthew 26:24).

If death were non-existence,

Then I take it, you do not believe all the Bible. DEAD HUMANS GET
raised from" Wisdom for Family Happiness
What can husbands, wives, parents, and children do to enjoy a happy
family?
Find Out "
See jw.org (5/15/2026)
zebrabible@proton.me
the dead.

Death is non-existence, until the great resurrection of the dead.
(Acts 24:15)

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.

-- New King James
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your
might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the
grave where you are going.

-- King James
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in
that very day his thoughts perish.

It is kind a hard to live without thoughts, isn't it?

judgment would be equal for all and non-existence would not be worse than a troubled life.

Yes it would. When you have life you are in a 3-D reality, and can
enjoy some of the things this world offers. In non-existence, one
CAN'T enjoy anything. Null, zero.

Jesus explicitly described the ongoing nature of eternal damnation as a place where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:44, 46, 48), indicating a conscious and perpetual state.

That is the way you interpret it, as literal. Show me those
superworms. Fire won't even kill them. It is amazing how that
description mirrors Gehenna, Jerusalem's garbage dump. things tossed
in there were forever destroyed.

This is confirmed in Revelation 14:11, 19:20, and 20:10, which show that the damned are tormented day and night forever and ever, and remain in this state even after the passage of a thousand years, proving the soul survives the death of the body.

That's the way you interpret it. You don't take into account Ec 9:5,10
& Ps 146:3,4. Believe it or not, they are part of the Bible.

The meaning of destruction

The Greek words often translated as destroy or destruction, such as olethros and apollymi, refer to a condition of ruin, loss, or separation rather than a cessation of existence or annihilation.

This is evidenced by the use of apollymi in the accounts of the lost coin, the lost sheep, and the lost prodigal son (Luke 15), where the objects existed but were useless or separated from their proper place.

That's as you see it. Here is a definition of apollumi Greek meaning:

Meaning: to destroy, destroy utterly. Strong's Concordance. destroy,
die, lose, mar, perish. From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy
fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively --
destroy, die, lose, mar, perish. see GREEK apo.

Similarly, when Paul speaks of handing a man over for the destruction of the flesh (1 Corinthians 5:5), it refers to a state of ruin and suffering for the purpose of correction, not the end of the man's being.

He was going to be destroyed while still living. He will be in Satan.s
hands.

Biblical destruction is the loss of all that makes existence blessed, resulting in ongoing ruin and separation from the presence of God.

The method of the atonement

The whole point about the word pole is idiotic,(are you knocking my fishing pole?)

because even if Romans didn't (they did) put patibulum on the pole

(forming a cross), Paul would still be noting that he preached about
the "pole" of Christ. Thus Watchtower heretics seek to associate with
paganism, that which Paul said he preached, confirming that they
promote a false gospel contrary to the one Paul proclaimed, which he
clearly anathematized in Galatians 1:8-9.

As you see it. But you forget that the best Bibles do not use the word
"cross", but refer to Jesus' impalement as a "stauros". A stauros is
an upright pole, NOT A CROSS.

And the cross predates Christianity. It was used by pagan nations in
their worship. Which is something detestable to God.

There is also the Egyptian ankh. Which is a cross with a loop on top.
A picture of one is at:

https://www.nps.gov/afbg/learn/historyculture/ankh.htm

I see professed Christians all the time wearing that pagan symbol. The
churches have failed to warn their flock. If you think God doesn't
mind, THINK AGAIN!!!

The certainty of the resurrection and commission

The reality of the resurrection and the mandate of the Great Commission are established by the overwhelming testimony of the Gospels, regardless of the textual history of the final verses of Mark.

Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 24, and John 20-21 provide exhaustive evidence of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ and His authoritative command to make disciples of all nations.

Jesus was raised as a spirit being. 'He was put to death in the flesh,
but make alive in the spirit'. But spirits are invisible to human
eyes. So Jesus had to materialize a human-looking body in order to
converse.

Jesus gave up his original body, so it didn't look like Jesus used to
look. He first appeared to Mary Magdalene. She didn't recognize his
body, so thought he was the gardener.

The biblical record across the canon confirms that the victory of Christ over the grave is the foundational truth upon which the church is built and the primary message to be carried to the world.

The principle of clear reference

Sound interpretation relies on the principle that difficult or isolated passages must be understood in light of the overwhelming mass of clear biblical data.

This principle is that one does not impose ideas onto the text that contradict the established and repeated testimony of the scriptures.

Where the Bible repeatedly and clearly defines the nature of God, the person of Christ, or the state of the dead, these clear references serve as the boundary for interpreting specific words or footnotes. Meaning is drawn from the harmony of the entire biblical text rather than from isolated or redefined terms.

The sufficiency of scripture

The Bible identifies itself as the final authority for faith and practice. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine and instruction. The biblical evidence suggests that the meaning of the text is to be drawn out from the words provided by the Holy Spirit, rather than having external doctrinal frameworks imposed upon it through selective footnoting or translation choices that deviate from the manuscript record.

-- King James
Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but
not according to knowledge.

" Wisdom for Family Happiness
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family?
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Already responded to this here:

<840eca7f-f462-4045-9838-31df13bb69e9@christrose.news>

You simple recycle the same refuted arguments over and over.
--
Jesus is God

https://www.christrose.news/Jesus-God

Good News rCa

Christ's death on a cross paid the debt we owe God for our sins (Colossians 2:14). The proof is God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:4).

This means God can now remain right, while forgiving our sins (Romans 3:26) and delivering us from His coming wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10). It's a free gift for those who believe in Christ (Romans 6:23).

If you believe, call on the Lord to save you (Romans 10:9-13).

https://christrose.news/salvation
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