George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
Will Dockery wrote:
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) posted:
In article <1783306535>,
Will Dockery <user3274> wrote:
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) posted:
Please review Invasion of Time when you have a moment.
I will, but haven't had a chance to finish watching it, it's been a
very busy week in real life.
Take your time.
More time on the weekend.
Just work you way back in.
I'll also be relaying feedback from Dr Who experts Walter and Brian
Mallard.
As is always the case, I'm sure he will be doing his "when time permits", pretending he is busy. What could he possibly be busy with?
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
NancyGene wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
it's none of your business where Miguel is from, where he lives
Will Dockery wrote:
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) posted:
In article <1783306535>,
Will Dockery <user3274> wrote:
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) posted:
Please review Invasion of Time when you have a moment.
I will, but haven't had a chance to finish watching it, it's been a
very busy week in real life.
Take your time.
More time on the weekend.
Just work you way back in.
I'll also be relaying feedback from Dr Who experts Walter and Brian
Mallard.
As is always the case, I'm sure he will be doing his "when time permits", pretending he is busy. What could he possibly be busy with?
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
Columbus, with its "banjist,"
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
it's none of your business where Miguel is from, where he lives
Likewise, it's none of your business where I'm from, or where I live, NancyGene.
But that hasn't stopped you from maliciously stalking me for years, has it?
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American British should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
there is no such thing as "American British."
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
(Autocorrect typo corrected.)
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from is to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
(Autocorrect typo corrected.)
as usual, corrects one error
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from is to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
(Autocorrect typo corrected.)
as usual, corrects one error
Interesting how you jump on every error I make yet yo shrug and look the other was when a fellow troll such as Miguel makes one.
Hypocritical much, NancyGene?
Will-Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Thanks again for giving me a moment in the spotlight, GJD.
EfyA
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
I don't know about you, NG, but I was definitely talking about
American English, and Miguel got it wrong.
"When time permits," get it?
will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) wrote in news:IdudnRrQsLE-V-b3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
I don't know about you, NG, but I was definitely talking about
American English, and Miguel got it wrong.
"When time permits," get it?
I get you're having a tizzy
George J. Dance wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
it's none of your business where Miguel is from, where he lives
Likewise, it's none of your business where I'm from, or where I live, NancyGene.
But that hasn't stopped you from maliciously stalking me for years, has it?
Will Donkey xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
you should not try to be an English editor
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
it's none of your business where Miguel is from, where he lives
Likewise, it's none of your business where I'm from, or where I live, NancyGene.
But that hasn't stopped you from maliciously stalking me for years, has it?
No one has to stalk you
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
I don't know about you, NG, but I was definitely talking about American English, and Miguel got it wrong.
"When time permits," get it?
Just saying.
Will Dockery wrote:
[snip]
I don't know about you, NG, but I was definitely talking about American English, and Miguel got it wrong.
"When time permits," get it?
Just saying.
And what if Miguel is British or Australian?
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
[snip]
https://proofreading.org/learning-center/do-quotation-marks-go-inside-or-outside-other-punctuation/
Okay, I asked Miguel if he was British or from another country with different grammar rules than the USA.
If Miguel is an American, living in, say, New Jersey, he would probably be expected to use American English grammar rules.
it's none of your business where Miguel is from, where he lives
Likewise, it's none of your business where I'm from, or where I live, NancyGene.
But that hasn't stopped you from maliciously stalking me for years, has it?
exposed the racist past and present of the Ducky family.
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
<snip>
It's all you've whined about for days, Douchebag. I notice you won't
admit I'm right, so see if No-Nads can offer you some slurpage instead.
Here you go:
love playing Grammar Gestapo. Ever notice that, Kook?
But to answer your incorrect assessment, I'll point out the following:
"When quotation marks are used at the end of a sentence, the placement
of the period depends on whether the quote is a comple te sentence or a phrase.
If the quote is a complete sentence, the period is placed inside the closing quotation mark. For example:
She said, "I'm going to the store."
If the quote is only a phrase, the period is placed outside the closing quotation mark. For example:
She said she was going to "the store on Main Street".
Note that this rule applies to American English.
No, that rule applies to British English. The rule for American
English is:
"Put the period inside the quotation marks. (This is a rule without exception.)"
https://cmosshoptalk.com/2020/10/20/commas-and-periods-with-quotation-marks/
In British English, the
period is typically placed outside the closing quotation mark, even for complete sentences."
Wrong again. The rule of British English is to treat commas and
periods the same as other punctuation marks, and put them
outside the quotation marks unless they form part of the quoted
material (in which case they go inside).
<further frothing by Kevin snipped>
Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
<snip>
It's all you've whined about for days, Douchebag. I notice you won't
admit I'm right, so see if No-Nads can offer you some slurpage instead.
Here you go:
Kooks love playing Grammar Gestapo. Ever notice that, Kook?
But to answer your incorrect assessment, I'll point out the following:
"When quotation marks are used at the end of a sentence, the placement
of the period depends on whether the quote is a comple te sentence or a phrase.
If the quote is a complete sentence, the period is placed inside the closing quotation mark. For example:
She said, "I'm going to the store."
If the quote is only a phrase, the period is placed outside the closing quotation mark. For example:
She said she was going to "the store on Main Street".
Note that this rule applies to American English.
No, that rule applies to British English. The rule for American
English is:
"Put the period inside the quotation marks. (This is a rule without exception.)"
https://cmosshoptalk.com/2020/10/20/commas-and-periods-with-quotation-marks/
In British English, the
period is typically placed outside the closing quotation mark, even for complete sentences."
Wrong again. The rule of British English is to treat commas and
periods the same as other punctuation marks, and put them
outside the quotation marks unless they form part of the quoted
material (in which case they go inside).
<further frothing by Kevin snipped>
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
you should not try to be an English editor
George J. Dance wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
George J. Dance wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
HarryLime wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
I believe that her point
Will-Dockery wrote:
HarryLime wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
I believe that her point
NG is just trying to defend her fellow troll,, right or wrong, as expected
And so it goes.
EfyA
Will Dockery wrote:
HarryLime wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open[snip]I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will wrong to criticize Miguel
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
I believe that her point
NG is just trying to defend her fellow troll,, right or wrong, as expected
And so it goes.
No. She's just xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx
Will-Dockery wrote:
MummyChunk wrote:
Will, what do you do for work at your office?
Writing, art and music, basically.
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Will Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Thanks again for giving me a moment in the spotlight, GJD.
Thank you for providing me a poem for Valentine's Day, Will. I hope and expect,
that you'll get much more than a minute's publicity from it. I was happy to see
it reenter PPB's Top 10 this month, and I don't think that will be the last time.
It will be up and getting reads as long as the blog stays up; that's the least I
can do for a writer.
This response appears in the discussion at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=701517398#701517398--
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
George J. Dance wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
George J. Dunce, we are NOT talking about American English, but that other English-speaking writers may follow a different rule.
That may be what you're talking about, but it's not what anyone else in the thread has been talking about. Will and Kevin are disagreeing about the rules of American English. If you'd rather talk about something else, go open
your own thread; you should remember how to do that.
We don't know where Miguel is from or lives, but he has the right to write according to the conventions of his country (or the U.S.).
AAPC is an alt. group; Miguel or anyone else can follow the grammar rules they like, or none at all if they
prefer; and anyone who doesn't like that has the same freedom to criticize them. See how that works?
Will Donkey is wrong to criticize Miguel when Will Donkey cannot even write one sentence without making two mistakes. George J. Dunce again misses the point.
I understand your point completely. You're upset that Will is playing Grammar Gestapo, when you think
you're the real Grammar Gestapo.
Will Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Okay, you're right, for whatever reasons neither Pendragon or Dance has responded on the correct way to use a comma "inside quotation marks."
I suppose it isn't worth arguing about, anyhow, so we can just forget about it if you want to.
If GJD or Pendragon see this and want to comment, fine. Otherwise I say let's not continue wasting time going around and around over it.
If it happens again I'll probably mention it, but I have a feeling you won't be making that same mistake again, Miguel.
I suspect that it may be a time-waster, but since you name-checked me I'll venture
one quick response.
First off, the he /Chicago Manual of Style/ agrees with you. Here's an example:
"In publications that follow Chicago style, commas and periods are placed before a closing quotation mark, rCLlike this,rCY rather than after, rCLlike thisrCY. This convention has persisted even though itrCOs no longer universally followed outside the United States and isnrCOt entirely logical.
The other standard marks of sentence punctuation"semicolons, colons, question marks, exclamation points, and dashes"go after a closing quotation mark unless they belong to the quoted matter."
That's the rule in American English (whichh follows CMoS), and if you're a student at an American school, or writing for
an American publicaition, that's the rule you should follow.
Since I'm neither, I don't follow that rule; I prefer the more logical one of putting commas and periods inside the
quotation marks only if they are part of the quoted material. when a complete sentence is being quoted, it makes
sense to put the period inside, or a comma if it's taking the place of a period:
He said, "I'll do that when time permits."
or
"I'll do that when time permits," he said.
But if you're quoting a sentecce fragment, which doesn't end with any punctuation, it makes sense to not include punctuation:
He said he'll do that "when time permits".
or
He'll do that "when time permits", or so he said.
Having corresponded with MMP for more than a decade, I have a good idea how he'd respond. He's a champion of
American English, and likes to quote /CMOS/. However, since he probably considers it more important to never
ackowledge that you're right about anything, I suspect he won't be commenting.
This response appears in the discussion at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=701517398#70151739--
Will-Dockery wrote:
Miguel Sucio wrote:
Liar. You canrCOt write music, and we both know it. If yourCOre so desperate to prove otherwise, show me a sheet of staff paper with notes yourCOve actually written by hand. IrCOll even make it easy for you by accepting just the melody and not insisting on a full score.
From the archives, by special request of Miguel, example of my guitar playing:
EfyA
Will-Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
NancyGene wrote:
[snip]
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
you should not try to be an English editor
I didn't.
I simply corrected the error Miguel made, which set off a mass tizzy among you and your fellow trolls.
And so it goes.
EfyA
Miguel Sucio wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
The only reason I care where Miguel is from us to verify if the sentence he wrote contained an error.
Basically, the correct form in American English should be something like "when time permits."
If Miguel is a foreign guy, he might get a pass.
I simply corrected the error Miguel made, which set off a mass tizzy among you and your fellow trolls.
And so it goes.
You did not correct me
Miguel Sucio wrote:
[snip]
Will Dockery wrote:
MummyChunk wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo> posted:
Will Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Link fixed ^^^
This is an eventful area of time in my personal history, as some
who know my biography will understand.
Also, time does not have spatial dimensions, so there is no such
thing as an "area of time
So, enlighten me, Harry, what would you call it?
This was an eventful period in my personal history..."
You were
Again, all three are lies and misrepresentations by CujoDeSockpuppet aka Kevin Fries.
And so it goes.
Will said yesterday he was on the way to his rCLofficerCY
Will, what do you do for work at your office?
I write poetry and music there, snc the office is also an art studio where I also have created large paintings over the years.
Just all sorts of work has been created in my office.
See JLA Forums attachment below for another example of the large paintings I've created in . my office aka art studio woodshed.
There is no such thing as a "poetry-writing office,"
Will Dockery wrote:
MummyChunk wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo> posted:
Will Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Link fixed ^^^
<snip>
EfyA
--
Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
George J. Dance wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
MummyChunk wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo> posted:
Will Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html >>
Link fixed ^^^
<snip>
EfyA
--
Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k off, Dunce.
Bruce wrote:
[snip]
Bruce wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k off.
Why don't you try that, Bruce?
Eat sh*t
Daniel70 wrote:
On 11/08/2026 3:58 am, Bruce wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
<Snip>
Which you've just done again, now.
Stop with the lies, donkey, I'm not even in the post
that you and Binky are cross posting in, here's the
MID that proves you're full of sh*t -
Must be MAGIC then cause the post by Will that you are responding to was *ONLY* posted to rec.arts.drwho .... but YOUR reply to Will (directly,
no intervention by Binky) was posted into three groups ....
rec.arts.drwho, alt.arts.poetry.comments and alt.a**hole.binky.
Cross-posts into rec.arts.drwho and alt.a**hole.binky removed!!
--
Daniel70
Bruce wrote:
[snip]
Bruce wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
JLA Forums
It's a shitty server
Bruce wrote:
[snip]
Bruce wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
I'm not here for the Usenet, I'm here for the poetry.
This *is* Usenet
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k
George J. Dance wrote:
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k
Oooh, a snipping war! What am I gonna DO???
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Will Dockery wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Link fixed ^^^
<snip>
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
This response appears in the discussion at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=701517398#701517398--
Bruce wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Bruce is in a bit of a tizzy again, tonight.
Your projection is noted
George J. Dance wrote:
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k
Oooh, a snipping war! What am I gonna DO???
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Bruce wrote:
[snip]
Bruce wrote:
George J. Dance wrote:
Good idea. If Bruce is going to keep bumping the thread with off-topic
posts, one might as well keep bumping the actual subject, as well.
f**k
Oooh, a snipping war! What am I gonna DO???
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html.
This response appears in the discussion at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=701517398#701517398
George J. Dance wrote:
Penny's Poetry Blog's poem for Valentine's Day:
Poem for Kathy, by Will Dockery
[...]
I can't think of
anything else I should write.
If I try
my emotions explode.
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2026/02/poem-for-kathy-will-dockery.html
Bruce wrote:
[snip]
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 74 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 46:34:27 |
| Calls: | 1,100 |
| Files: | 1,339 |
| Messages: | 275,493 |