Violent Verses in the Quran: Their holy book in its own words. In this message I am not going to discuss it like a commentary, but rather let it speak for itself. If it is false let it be known to be false, If it is true then let it be known to be true, However, whatever the case let it be examined here in the Quran's own words. See for yourself and make an informed decision.


Quran (2:191-193)

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they
have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing" but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshiping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let
there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)


Quran (2:244)

"Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah heareth and knoweth
all things."


Quran (2:216)

"Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But
perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not."


Quran (3:56)

"And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe
punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."


Quran (3:151)

"We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers."


Quran (4:74)

"So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world
for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory. We will bestow upon him a great reward."


Quran (4:76)

"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve
fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak."


Quran (4:89)

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike.
So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you
find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."


Quran (4:95)

Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the
disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward"


Quran (4:101)

"And when you travel throughout the land, there is no blame upon you for shortening the prayer, [especially] if you fear that those who disbelieve may disrupt [or attack] you. Indeed, the disbelievers are ever to you a clear enemy."


Quran (4:104)

"And do not weaken in pursuit of the enemy. If you should be suffering -
so are they suffering as you are suffering, but you expect from Allah that which they expect not. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise."


Quran (5:33)

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed
or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment"


Quran (8:12)

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, I am with you, so
strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.


Quran (8:15)

"O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight]."


Quran (8:39)

"And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of
it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do."


Quran (8:57)

"So if you, [O Muhammad], gain dominance over them in war, disperse by
[means of] them those behind them that perhaps they will be reminded."


Quran (8:59-60)

"And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah ]. And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged."


Quran (8:65)

"O Prophet, urge the believers to battle"


Quran (8:67)

"It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah's enemies] in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires [for you] the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."


Quran (9:5)

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."


Quran (9:14)

"Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them
and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing
people"


Quran (9:20)

"The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah
with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah. And it is those who are the attainers [of success]."


Quran (9:29)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."


Quran (9:30)

"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah;" and the Christians say,
"The Messiah is the son of Allah" That is their statement from their
mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?"


Quran (9:38-39)

"O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah, you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little. If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people, and you will not harm Him at all. And Allah is over all things competent."


Quran (9:41)

"Go forth, whether light or heavy, and strive with your wealth and your
lives in the cause of Allah . That is better for you, if you only knew."


Quran (9:73)

"O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination."


Quran (9:88)

"But the Messenger and those who believed with him fought with their wealth and their lives. Those will have [all that is] good, and it is those who are the successful."


Quran (9:111)

"Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to
his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment."


Quran (9:123)

"O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers
and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."


Quran (17:16)

"And when We intend to destroy a city, We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word comes into effect upon it, and We destroy it with [complete] destruction."


Quran (21:44)

"But, [on the contrary], We have provided good things for these
[disbelievers] and their fathers until life was prolonged for them. Then do they not see that We set upon the land, reducing it from its borders? So it
is they who will overcome?"


Quran (25:52)

"So do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with the Qur'an
a great striving."


Quran (33:60-62)

"If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who
spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little. Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely. [This is] the established way of Allah with those who passed on before; and you will not find in the way of Allah any change."


Quran (47:3-4)

"That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who
believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah present to the people their comparisons. So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds."


Quran (47:35)

"So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is
with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] your deeds."


Quran (48:17)

"There is not upon the blind any guilt or upon the lame any guilt or upon
the ill any guilt [for remaining behind]. And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger - He will admit him to gardens beneath which rivers flow; but whoever turns away - He will punish him with a painful punishment."


Quran (48:29)

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful
against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward."


Quran (61:4)

"Indeed, Allah loves those who fight in His cause in a row as though they
are a [single] structure joined firmly."


Quran (61:10-12)

"O you who have believed, shall I guide you to a transaction that will save you from a painful punishment? [It is that] you believe in Allah and His Messenger and strive in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is best for you, if you should know. He will forgive for you your sins and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow and pleasant dwellings in gardens of perpetual residence. That is the great attainment."


Quran (66:9)

"O Prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination."

--------
All verses taken from The Quran.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Hello warmfuzzy!

Violent Verses in the Quran: Their holy book in its own words. [...]

Quran (4:74)

"So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life
of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the
cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory. We will
bestow upon him a great reward."

"WE will bestow"? So there is more than just Allah proclaiming
that? Interesting.

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off.. [...]

" ..I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from
them every fingertip.

"And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of
it, is for Allah [...]

..."you may terrify the enemy of
Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows.

"O Prophet, urge the believers to battle"

"It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah's enemies] in the land."

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them...

Sounds like the words from a war god. Revenge, physical harm,
etc.

I have to wonder what the Western Muslims really think of those
verses.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (700:100/16)

Ogg wrote to warmfuzzy <=-

I have to wonder what the Western Muslims really think of those
verses.

I'm sure they ignore them, as western theologians do the sections of the
bible that are violent, sexually inappropriate and/or illegal.




... "He who is without oil, shall cast the first rod."-Compressions 8.7:1.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (700:100/20)

I'm catholic, my family is from croatia, i've worked with muslims i've talked about this kind of stuff with them.

this part is just the rules on how to wage war.

our book doesnt have rules of war, but we still go to war, the holy roman empire, the pope himself went to war.

at least they are honest about it.

Osito

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

our book doesnt have rules of war, but we still go to war, the holy roman empire, the pope himself went to war.

Well, Old Testament is very clear about the rules of engagement in a war.
"Eye for an Eye, Tooth for an Tooth"

The New Testament is all crap about forgiving, while the world is brutal anyway... so very contradicting and inconsistent between what the book teaches and world functions.

Me born in Catholic Poland find it amusing as my national culture is very focused on being vengeful, while very religious...

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

focused on being vengeful, while very religious...

Haha lol. yeah its funny. I guess to make a manual for life is very difficult. I think just try to be a good person and not turn crazy. Those crazy people cause a lot of problems. :)

Osito

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Haha lol. yeah its funny. I guess to make a manual for life is very difficult. I think just try to be a good person and not turn crazy.
Those crazy people cause a lot of problems. :)

Oh.. this is actually easy for most Polish catholics. Nobody will say that out loudly but it's like... "let's save all that crap about forgiveness for Sunday's mess and priest talking nonsense to our kids and singing.

Monday-Saturday we follow the old books, Jews also respect. And the books
say simply: eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth for any bastard that breaks my personal definition of morality. Including that fuckin priest if he dares to touch our kids. we'll bury motherfucker in the potatoes field the way nobody finds the rotting body!"

... kind of thing...

Can't be easier, right?

Especially with the corrupted priesthood stuff..

In my hood while I was a kid we had a priest who liked kids. Local right-wing youth (you can call them skin-heads) broke this guy's both legs and arms the way that his catholic retirement somewhere Bolivia was instantly including a wheelchair transport. And nobody needed to know, neither pigs nor faithful elders in the area. it was the Church and local enforcement to keep things the right way, later on.

This is also one of the reason why we don't have islamic terrorism in the country, even tho we have a lot of middle-east imported people. They fucking know this is not Germany.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

And apologies to be perhaps a bit too colorful with emotions put into language, but that's what I thought could match the group's name mood as a proper christian extremist counter part to those surahs by some example interpretation.

Point is, all religions come with extreme versions that can be easily manifested with war and aggression. I don't believe this is unique to Muslim world.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

that out loudly but it's like... "let's save all that crap about forgiveness for Sunday's mess and priest talking nonsense to our kids

I am pretty sure its the same everywhere. Its good to have ideals to aspire to, and with normal people its easy to follow, but there are some people where its impossible or they take advantage. Some are too dumb (but they think they are smart), others have twisted minds with crazy views on reality that you cant explain anything to them, and theres people with failed lives and disasters follow them strike anyone near them.

My grandfather told me stories about what the town used to do those people. A bunch of townsfolk would get together and try to beat some sense into them. You can't do that now a days though. you would be beating up half the people you meet :)

Osito

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

I think that the Muslims in The West think honestly that their religion is a religion of peace. If they're anything like the Christians in The West they believe what other people tell them is true rather than reading the word of God. I hope that this message thread hasn't offended anyone, I'm just printing direct quotes from their holy book.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

I'm sure they ignore them, as western theologians do the sections of the bible that are violent, sexually inappropriate and/or illegal.

Hrm, well the first thing that comes to mind regarding "illegal" activity is that things are only illegal in countries where things are illegal, there is stuff in one country that is perfectly legal while in other countries for the very same thing if worthy of the death penalty. And about "sexually inappropriate" you're right, some of the things that Kind David did made the faith be in a bad light. Specifically him killing the husband of a lovely looking lady so that he could have her sexually. He made a serious mistake. It was inappropriate, the Holy Bible isn't politically correct though, its a book of real life, which can be dirty at times, but nonetheless part of the story of life, recorded as it happened. Don't think I'm defending King David, I'm not. I'm just saying that the book is Holy and not made by a politically correct person who wants to please everyone.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

I'm catholic, my family is from croatia, i've worked with muslims i've talked about this kind of stuff with them.
this part is just the rules on how to wage war.
our book doesnt have rules of war, but we still go to war, the holy roman empire, the pope himself went to war.
at least they are honest about it.

Our collective history has a lot of bad stuff in it, from violence to war. Just because "we" have gone to war in the past doesn't mean that we are responsible for the war crimes of others. It seems like just about every culture has violence and war. What I'm saying is I don't feel burdened by the horrors that others have done, yes I'm labeled a "Born Again Christian" and that is good, but those millenniums of people who were born and died before me, why should i carry their collective guilt.

Now the Holy Bible says that up to seven generations a person can be tainted by the actions of their fathers, however at the same time "your sins were washed away at the point where you gave your life to God." It also says that people are blessed to a thousand generations of the faithful (paraphrase).

As for the Pope going to war, the Catholic Church did many inappropriate things which can be examined by Luther's 95-point treatise that he nailed on the door belonging to the church. I am a Christian -- I have no Pope over me. I'm a Protestant. I respect the Catholics as people, but I have no adherence to their dogma. Both Christians and Catholics can get to heaven by being born again, so I'm not at war with my brothers, they just don't think the same war I do on matters of Faith.

Peace and blessings!

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

The New Testament is all crap about forgiving, while the world is brutal anyway... so very contradicting and inconsistent between what the book

This relates to the two covenants. That Covenant in the Old Testament was for the people of that time, while the New Covenant it a far better and greater covenant. Especially the having to slaughter animals as sacrifices to God. Wouldn't that be a problem? I'm not saying anything against God, but I'm acknowledging how very much better The New Covenant is where we no longer need to send up burnt offerings as Jesus Christ became an offering for all,without end and complete, our sin being put on Him and He forgiving us.

teaches and world functions.
Me born in Catholic Poland find it amusing as my national culture is very focused on being vengeful, while very religious...

Yes, some devout religious people owned and beat slaves, not so long ago, and this was in America. There are racists and evil people who put on a cloak of righteousness who poorly represent our Faith. Not everyone who calls themselves a person of God is actually what they claim.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

difficult. I think just try to be a good person and not turn crazy.
Those crazy people cause a lot of problems. :)

Jesus Christ said "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. And no one comes
to The Father but by Me." So without being Born Again through the power of Jesus Christ no one will see Heaven. A hard teaching I know, but its the Truth. There are plenty of "good" people who are heading in the wrong direction:

[Mat 7:13-14 NKJV] 13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is] the gate and broad [is] the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 "Because narrow [is] the gate and difficult [is] the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

In Contemplation,
warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Monday-Saturday we follow the old books, Jews also respect. And the books say simply: eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth for any bastard that
breaks my personal definition of morality. Including that fuckin priest
if he dares to touch our kids. we'll bury motherfucker in the potatoes field the way nobody finds the rotting body!"
Especially with the corrupted priesthood stuff..
In my hood while I was a kid we had a priest who liked kids. Local right-wing youth (you can call them skin-heads) broke this guy's both
legs and arms the way that his catholic retirement somewhere Bolivia was

A Holy BIble quote that relates to your above message is below:

[Mat 18:6 NKJV] 6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Point is, all religions come with extreme versions that can be easily manifested with war and aggression. I don't believe this is unique to Muslim world.

Its not unique to Muslims. I'm thinking of all those cults who kill themselves to get to Heaven. Do not drink the Kool Aid kind of thing. Its sad how people can be so easily deceived.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

My grandfather told me stories about what the town used to do those people. A bunch of townsfolk would get together and try to beat some
sense into them. You can't do that now a days though. you would be
beating up half the people you meet :)

Yeah, the culture has really changed, and not all for the better. This political correctness is really ridiculous

-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Here I go, my religion teachers will be ashamed of themselves probably:

Me, I pray to God, Jesus is like an example to live by, if you live like he did, God will say "wonderful! what more can I ask for?'

When I spoke to the muslims, they would hound me, "oh you believe in the trinity, this is wrong"

and I would say "I think the trinity is like a gang or a family, you mess with Jesus, you mess with God, but theres only one God."

"yes there is only one God, but your God is the Jesus"

"No, no he's not, I think they are exaggerating the importance of the trinity to us, there is only one God."

"Ok, very good."



-------
now to change topic,
the only criticism i would have for Islam, and probably of my own religion too, is that it is designed to be repetitive, so you not only don't forget, but becomes habit.

Like there repetitive prayers at regimented times, it doesn't sound like actions of a faithful person, more like a chore.

and they ban pork, and gambling, alcohol. in the old days pork could be dangerous, but not now. so i think they should update the list maybe. those same muslims who didnt drink, they smoked weed because the Quran didn't ban that. And they don't ban modern junk food, if pork is bad, processed foods cant be any better, and colas and all that. If Islam began today, im sure thats the stuff that would be banned not pork. :)

Osito

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

and they ban pork, and gambling, alcohol. in the old days pork could be dangerous, but not now. so i think they should update the list maybe. those same muslims who didnt drink, they smoked weed because the Quran didn't ban that. And they don't ban modern junk food, if pork is bad, processed foods cant be any better, and colas and all that. If Islam
began today, im sure thats the stuff that would be banned not pork. :) Osito

You might be right there. God wouldn't forbid something for no good reason, so there must be some legitimate reason for these things to be restricted. Pork can go bad really fast, alcohol can cause cancer or liver problems, gambling is a misuse of money, junk food gives heart attacks, and soda causes diabetes, and aspartame in diet soda can make you sick... so when Jesus Christ comes back I think that we would be strongly recommended not to partake, though not cut out of our diets completely...

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)