I recently came across a phlog, gopher://sdf.org:70/0/users/atyh/phlog-2022-07-26-smol-happy-big-happy.txt, where the author discussed his offgrid living environment in that moment. As
I was reading it, I thought about how nice it is to be living a life debt
free (well atleast debt free from the banks) and self sufficient. While I do own property in Holbrook AZ, I decided to move to southern Idaho. I sold my house in Phoenix (I am holding on to the holbrook property, as it is vacant land. I paid for the land in cash, so no debt) and relocated to Idaho where
I am room mating with family. I work a 9 to 5 and pay my monthly dues. I am
not 100% debt free myself - more like 98%.

In a time of economic downturn, the least amount of debt you have, the better off you will be. You will be able to weather the negative effects of an economic downturn much better than those who hold large amounts of debt. Sure, that ferrari looks nice and it drives fast, but what good is that going to do you when you can't pay the bills?

It has to be one of the least stressful life styles - living debt free. There isn't that daily stress of having a large amount of debt on your head, knowing that if you loose your source of income, you will loose everything that you went into debt for.

Then there is also the topic of priorities - The author of the aforementioned phlog post, and his wife, both raise chickens and grow their own crops. To be able to live a self reliant life, you have to get your priorities straight! Once your shelter is established, and you have a good source of water, your next priority is food.

As for myself, I just got my hands on a couple packets of corn and tomato seeds. It is too late in the season now for me to be starting any of these,
so I am harvesting and stocking up on seeds while I can. There is a farmers market up the street from where I live and I harvest the seeds from some of
the jalapenos and bell peppers I buy from them.

A propper offgrid homesteader will also have a clear plan to run his homestead on. My plan for next year is to build a couple large garden boxes where I can grow corn, tomato's, and the various other peppers I collect along the way. Both me and my family raise chickens, so soil is not a problem for us (neither are eggs, nor chicken meat!). The people who I am roommating with are already aware of this plan and have already given the OK. I am building on this property as I will be inheriting this property when they pass on.

Who knows how long my job is going to last - our orders have gotten so low
that they have had to send people home early because there was just no work (all orders were processed and the entire factory was cleaned to a sparkling shine). They are already reducing hours for one of the production lines for
the aforementioned reason. When I first started with this company 3 months ago , we couldn't keep up with the orders! Now, we are struggling to get any orders. Interesting how things have changed so much in just 3 months.

If I do loose my job, it won't be as impacting to me as it will be to the others who work there, who don't have a large savings built up and who have
sky high debts. My part of the family that I am staying with currently has their house paid off and most of their debts paid, plus a large savings as well , so even they won't be impacted as badly. The number of new jobs in America
is on the decline as more and more companies face declining business.
2 quarters of negative GDP is an indicator of a recession. We will see now
the upcomming quarters turn out.

There will also be allot of time afforded to me as well to take on other
forms of work should I loose my current job. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I have a background in electronics and can render repair services. How something like this would shake out in an economic down turn remains to be seen. My speculation is that it will be very difficult and expensive to source replacement parts - and will make the repair very difficult and expensive, assuming the customer even wants the repair.


This is how I think - I think in novels, and this is what popped into my mind when reading over the article.

73, de KG7UJH
Debian

How ya gonna do it? PS/2 it!

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Nice write up - will commnet more later.

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

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Living debt free might also include not having any "calls upon you?"

Usually we are expected to pay up for things like property taxes, general and specific survices, health care/penalty for not having it, pension provisions, road tax/tag, insurances, , taxes and so on.

Some are avoidable but others seem pretty entrenched in the idea of economic serfdom.

Interestingly we are expected to set aside monies to bury ourselves (or whatever is supposed to happen).

What can we avoid and what do we need to provide for? What can we get away ignoring?

The ideas of growing your own food deserves a new thread.

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What can we avoid and what do we need to provide for? What can we get away >ignoring?

We should be putting our families and ourselves first in the list of priorities.
"Food, Water, Shelter, Clothing, Medicine, Means of Self Defense, and a Plan" is the framework that I use when preparing myself and maintaining my part of the homestead.

What can we get away with ignoring? We can start with the luxuries,
since they don't really serve any purpose other than to make us "feel good". We can survive without Starbucks.

73, de KG7UJH
Debian

How ya gonna do it? PS/2 it!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/02/11 (Linux/64)
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On 02 Aug 2022, debian said the following...

What can we avoid and what do we need to provide for? What can we get aw >ignoring?

We should be putting our families and ourselves first in the list of priorities.
"Food, Water, Shelter, Clothing, Medicine, Means of Self Defense, and a Plan" is the framework that I use when preparing myself and maintaining
my part of the homestead.

Include "information" and "skills" as high priorities.

Information in static tangible form (you might not be able to google for answers) and skills matched with needed tools & supplies.

Looking over contingency plans might be useful. What happens if health situation XYZ happens and there is no ready healthcare available? What happens if situation ABC damages our local personal infrastructure? What happens if a mob much bigger than our self-defense resources can handle shows up?

As nothing would be scripted or truely predictable, you are looking for broad-brush responses to include in contingency planning, and not overly detailed action plans.

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Good writeup.

I think there are many different forms and definitions of "self-sufficiency". Some people are all about going full Teddy K and living in an off-grid cabin, eating beans they grow. Others it is having enough shit paid off and ample savings/recurring income to whether crisis situations, etc.

I am more in line with the latter, personally. I am kind of social. I am, politically speaking, a syndicalist. I think, especially since humans are social creatures and we cannot easily (or necessarily want to) escape
society, finding solutions to liberate yourself from certain levels of risk
is important. Conversely, self-sufficiency (except for the hermit in the
woods) is a myth and not necessarily 100% desirable. I think a better goal is self-resiliancy. First on your own means, secondly though mutual aid, and lastly by contracted aid.

To unpack, one's own means is to make sure you can whether short and long
term crisis through your own resources. Your recurring expenses do not
outstrip your ability to earn or conceivably what you can earn/take from savings in a pinch. For, say, a family with two potential wage earners, being able to set the level so that either one can "carry" the household [even if tight] is ideal. Most people can't be expected (nor would necessarily want
to) set their budget based on outlying circumstances like sudden disability
or illness, or both earners being unemployed for extended periods of time. Rather a good level, again, from my perspective, is that bills and paid and food is sufficient on one earner.

As a syndie, I am a big proponent of what anarchists typically label as
mutual aid and forming mutual aid networks. These can be formal, but it more often more organic in nature [but do benefit by your awareness of them and maintaining them]. A simple example would be making friends with neighbors to the point you regularly can rely on sharing tools, pinch hitting with
pet/child care, etc. You know that if your car breaks down, your sibling/friend/neighbor has your back enough to lend you one or pick up the kids for a couple days for school until fixed. It's about cultivating communities of shared and mutual self-interest. I help you, cos I can can
rely on you for X. I may not be for Y, but I have him for Y, etc.

Also, this is very close to me living as foreigner [American living abroad],
as it is often very important to create and contribute to these web or relationships, since you don't have family to bail your out. Sure, my sister
or brothers-in-law would totally help me out with X but they are thousands of miles away... This is often my immigrant communities are resilient and sometimes clannish (whether or not the native population is or is not welcoming, and whether or not their status as foreigner contributes
negatively to their economic realities).

This can also include formal relationships (like a union) but I would only
say it is strictly this if you are actually involved and active in your union [which you honestly should if you have the time].

The last is contracted aid, which seems vague, but is exceedingly mundane. These are relationships that can be tapped by contract, as you have (by
choice or otherwise) been paying into it. Your home insurance is contracted aid. You can be as paid off and self-sufficient, but if you have a fire, well... you kind of need to have a policy. Similarly, you have contracted aid with the State, albeit they can be a bit lackluster (especially in the US)
and regardless where you are at, often *highly* dependent of your knowledge
of the system involved. Some of are straightforward... some states (take Massachusetts) have higher taxes, but actually have decent state unemployment insurance. They also have decent baseline health and disability insurance for residence. All of which are paid with state tax money and employment taxes.
You have to know what they fucking you are filing when you need it, but it is contracted and can be good. Some places have funds or scholarships for education and stipends if you become unemployed and want to change careers. Literally 1% of people living in those jurisdictions know about these. Some offer other social assistance [like with disability or elder care] for non-disabled/non-elder people in a "crisis" situation, but you don't know. I
am pretty plugged into this sort of thing, but when my wife was hours away
long term for several months in the hospital, I was actually entitled to some assistance where I live since I have two school age kids [but didn't know].
It could have been a care worker picking them up from school and watching
until I was finished with work or someone to come a clean a couple hours a week... Didn't fucking know.

So with contracted aid, you need to know what you need [insurance for home, health, disability, etc.] for your situation and family, optimize the
expense, and understand *everything* you are potentially entitled to from the municipality/state under what circumstances. The later actually can put more credence for "homesteading" *in town*. I live in a rather rural area overall, but I live on the outskirts of town. Sure I have to pay city water/sewer, but the schools are great, proximity to walk to town/access to buses [even if not city-level frequent] mean we can get by on one car, community programs are frequently available to free/dirt cheap for children or adults in the community. If I went a quarter mile out, I would be out of the district and
not a resident. But as you can see, it mean that closer to town is better for some [like my wife and I with two school-age kids and two infants], but
others [single or couple with kids out of house] being out in the woods with your own well and managing your own trash is more sustainable.

For me, the biggest is paying off home, vehicles, and debt. This is a tricky enough proposition, as the expense of these (and the social expectations and the business culture surrounding the buying and selling is around credit/debit). But if you can keep everything going on one income (if a
couple) or for X time until a new job (or even planning based on an easily available, but shittier job you can get in a pinch) makes things closer to sustainable.

With homes, buy what you need, buy good "bones" and location, and fix it up over time. Save and hire pros for what needs the pros and find time and money to do the rest yourselves. Likewise, with car, get what you need. Find the balance between utility, reliability, and expense. For some it is buying a beater and cycling every couple years. Some it is buying something a bit
nicer, since keeping it for a number of years or using it for hauling more
than your own ass is important. And when you can, pay it off and own it.
Taxes and tags are inevitable, so no reason to bitch. Fuel will always cost money, so plan your use (and selection) accordingly. A new car is almost
never a necessity.

Whenever possible buy the best quality [not most expensive] especially with tools and things you wear hard [boots, outerwear]. Whenever possible, if you can find it used and in good condition [especially for best quality stuff], that will usually serve you better in the long run. I forget which random
dirty socialist philosopher I read recently made this point, but the poor person often find themselves forced to buy $2 boots and replaces them every year... They leak almost immediately, so they have to always put up with
cheap, falling-apart, boots and wet feet. The $10 boots last at least five years and don't leak if maintained. The poor person is forced to get the $2 ones either because he cannot save for it or doesn't realize that he should.

But yeah, if you have space and time to grow food, do it. 100%. I skipped gardening, since bought this place about and year ago and between babies and fixing up the home, no time. But we are planning everything out for either
next spring or even potentially a fall planting. Animals are cool, if you are the type to want to do that, but finding farms who sell meat and eggs
directly may be worth it. Same with farmers markets, etc. Hunting and fishing is often an option for people to supplement and depending on where you are
at, it may be a significant enough piece of the food puzzle.

And make sure you have fun. Have hobbies. Travel if you enjoy it. The system wants you to buy shit, new shit, all the time, but not all leisure and entertainment is consumption. Musical instruments are fun. Programming is
great and you can do that on a potato of a computer. Making stuff is super
fun. Going and seeing new things is fun. Make sure you aren't just a serf toiling on your homestead with no joy.

In the end, very few want to be 100% off grid, but most people want to live securely, even if capitalists and imperialists are forcing the prices of
things up outside your control.

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