How my Grandmother Lost $18,000 CAD
--------

It wasn't a trojan, or spy ware, or even a physical attack. The attack used common remote access software used to root her computer. AnyDesk and TeamViewer were found to be installed and active on her computer. They also used phishing to pretend that they were the police and that they needed her
to purchase many GooglePlay Cards for some purpose that is not immediately understood. She had early dementia at that time, so the fact that she would do things without thinking it through is probable. It was a store clerk that called her out for doing something suspicious and refused to sell any more cards to her. The police eventually got involved. However, as the hack seemed to be coming from India and Canada doesn't have police enforcement agreements with "small" hacks. We don't have that kind of agreement with them. In the end, the scammers got away with it, my grandma lost $18,000 CAD, and all her emails and the evidence of what happened was eliminated. The only thing that remained was the fact that her bank account was less by almost twenty thousand dollars.

When my parents got on the phone with the scammers, my dad made it clear that what they were doing had been found out. They responded with the statement that they couldn't do anything about it and my parents could go [expletive[ themselves.

The scammers had no scruples about what they were doing. They saw my grandmother as someone who had too much money and that the monetary system was unfair, that they had the right to more money for themselves. It was, in their sight, sort of like the redistribution of wealth. Their view was somewhat like they were Robin Hood (like the book), except there was no giving money to the poor, but keeping it to themselves.

Things like this are happening more often. As home there is at least one scam every two weeks, and at times we have had several in one single week. They somehow route their calls over VOIP (voice of Internet protocol) in such a way that they can't easily be traced back. It isn't fair, it isn't just, and it is the exploiting of people with weak minds or cognitive problems, or simply an average person who gets sucked into one of these schemes as the actors are just that good at their story telling. A friend of mine is a member of a group that goes about scamming the scammers. I don't know much about it as its none of my business, but I'm glad that he is doing what he does. What do you people think about this? As this is an international forum there will be people from various parts of the world online here. So I'm interested in your perspectives on this matter. Please let me know your opinions.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy


P.S. a take-away from this lesson is that commercial software that is good (TeamViewr and AnyDesk) can be re-purposed for evil. So on your boxes, unless you absolutely need remote control software not to have that kind of thing active. It may be installed, however keep it on a tight leech by deactivating it when not using it and activating it only while in use.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

good (TeamViewr and AnyDesk) can be re-purposed for evil. So on your boxes, unless you absolutely need remote control software not to have that kind of thing active. It may be installed, however keep it on a tight leech by deactivating it when not using it and activating it only while in use.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to your grandmother! It's sad. My dad got ripped off bigtime about 10 years ago. He lost like $100,000 on an investment scam.

Here's the common pattern that I think I'm seeing: People are getting stimulated by crap that they shouldn't be. Here are some examples:

* Americans watch the news, they've never been to Israel or Palestinian territory, but they end up protesting, and setting shit on fire anyway.

* An elderly person gets a phonecall, and they get incredibly focused on the phonecall, and distacted from reality (by that phonecall.)

* An average man drives and gets tailgated by the car behind him, and he pulls over and walks up to the car behind him and starts screaming at them.

Do you see a pattern here? People are getting over-stimulated by ridiculous stuff that they should just ignore. And it's all technology-related stuff too. God didn't intend for people to get tailgated, phone-scammed, or news-activated. We need to tune a lot of stuff out and stay focused on stuff that matters (food, sleep, work, play, spend time with loved ones, repeat.)

Distractions, phones, computers, cars, that stuff, despite how much we enjoy them, they really suck and they interfere with life in a negative way.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

Hello warmfuzzy!

** On Tuesday 10.09.24 - 17:49, warmfuzzy wrote to All:

How my Grandmother Lost $18,000 CAD
--------

It wasn't a trojan, or spy ware, or even a physical attack. The attack used common remote access software used to root her computer. AnyDesk and TeamViewer were found to be installed and active on her computer. They also used phishing to pretend that they were the police...

That whole story is a sad commentary, indeed.

Things like this are happening more often. As home there is at least one scam every two weeks, and at times we have had several in one single week.

Maybe consider https://jollyrogertelephone.com/ ..and it
screen the calls for you.

They somehow route their calls over VOIP (voice of Internet protocol) in
such a way that they can't easily be traced back. ...

I think phone companies should take greater responsibility for
allowing international calls to come through. And we should be
given to ability to block numbers when desired. Bell Canada
used to provide *-star numbers in their phone books to achieve
exactly that. But since the phone books are nolonger a common
thing, the info is gone. If you received a call that you
perceived to be harassment or unwanted, you could press
something like *88 or something and the last call would be
blocked and reported. I think that primarily worked for
landline. But now, since many people have cellpone or mobile
numbers, there is no single standard for blocking or reporting.

P.S. a take-away from this lesson is that commercial software that is good (TeamViewr and AnyDesk) can be re-purposed for evil. So on your boxes, unless you absolutely need remote control software not to have that kind of thing active. It may be installed, however keep it on a tight leech by deactivating it when not using it and activating it only while in use.

In the not too distant past, I've used Teamviwer to help assist
a few people with their machines. Very handy. The remote client
didn't even need a Teamviewer account, just a small generic
download that would connect to the Teamviewer network, assign
an access code, and all the client had to do was tell me over
the phone what that code was. But I can see how a scammer
might be able to use the same approach and convince their
target to do the same thing and gain full access to the
client's pc.

I personally liked RDP if assisting people with Windows
machines. It too had a simple mechanism that someone could use
to email me the "access link" and I could then connect to their
pc. But ultimately there were some reported security holes in
RDP and it was wise to stop using that.

Meanwhile, I discovered Tailscale, and that permits me to
access my own machines very easily so that I could primarily
use VNC to access and control my own remote PCs.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (700:100/16)

How my Grandmother Lost $18,000 CAD
--------

Thanks for sharing her story; this happens way more than we think and is horrible.

As you know, be vigilant w/ your family member because whether the scam goes thru OR doesn't they flag people who play the game and will hit them with all the other scams - reverse-scams and just know that they have a mark to work on. :/

Another angle, although the Indian gift card scams are usually a big boss and underling workers, is the pig butchering scams. They are more romance and crypto investment related, however many of the people doing the scams, from the text messagers to the beautiful women used at 'proof', can be human trafficked into the scam. There are HUGE community complexes built [Malaysia?] and they prey on foreigners looking for work and get them there with a ploy of IT jobs - hold their passports and literally keep them doing the scam. Not that its an excuse, but SOME of the scammers are being trafficked into it.

I want to do more to help victims, get the word out and educate people - what can we do??? I have all the time in the world to do scam baiting, I'm technical enough although I don't have remote hacking/teamviewer skills - yet and I'd love to get involved.

Its really terrible - and they prey on those of us who are at risk. You and I might know to never click a link, but grandma doesn't... and you know who else doesn't? Our children; I think theres a huge area to help here.

Sorry that it touched your family, warm.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Maybe consider https://jollyrogertelephone.com/ ..and it
screen the calls for you.

Nice - you know, while privacy is important [Although DEAD in 2024] I think this might be an area where AI could be implemented for people at risk for scamming.

It would be so easy to detect all the different scams and I wonder if it might be implemented in ways to help combat this issue in the future.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Hello paulie420!

Maybe consider https://jollyrogertelephone.com/ ..and it
screen the calls for you.

Nice - you know, while privacy is important [Although DEAD in 2024] I think this might be an area where AI could be implemented for people at risk for scamming.

I remember when jollyroger first announced its existence. Now,
many years later, it sounds like they have come a long way with
many improvements. They mention AI tech for their robots.
Maybe now instead of standard pre-recorded robots, the robots
adjust depending on what the caller says.

It would be so easy to detect all the different scams and I wonder if it might be implemented in ways to help combat this issue in the future.

Dunno if it would be easy to detect scam calls. I still get
pestering calls from POS (point of sales) companies that claim
to offer better debit and credit card rates. I get the
occassional call claiming to be from google maps. Both types
of calls, although reasonably benign, are still annoying and
time wasting. Regarding the former, I think it would be
ludicrous to follow through switching my current POS processor
over to a new and totally unvetted company/person who needs my
banking information inorder to "transfer" services and control
to them.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (700:100/16)

On 10 Sep 2024, shitty said the following...

Here's the common pattern that I think I'm seeing: People are getting stimulated by crap that they shouldn't be. Here are some examples:

....

Distractions, phones, computers, cars, that stuff, despite how much we enjoy them, they really suck and they interfere with life in a negative way.

A friend recently wrote:

Imagine if you will

In the year 2030, Forest Adams was in a car accident that left him comatose for an entire decade. To everyone's surprise, he awoke in 2040 and proceeded to make an incredible recovery and soon returned to his old life. His hobby had been fishing, and he couldn't wait to get back out on the lake where he lived. He had been told that there had been some changes in the fishing world that he first needed to catch up on.

People didn't bait hooks and cast lines anymore. Robots did that sort of mundane work now. A fisherman need only buy an "anglers robot" package, make certain its batteries are charged, then turn it loose on the lake. The fisherman was then free to enjoy the day doing more important things while the robot did his fishing. The robot would catch a fish, weigh and measure it, snap a photo, upload the "catch" photo and stats to Facebook and Instagram before turning the fish loose and continuing the hunt. An online leaderboard kept track of the fish caught, size, type, weight, etc. Top fishermen often boasted more than 100,000 catches on the big board and fancy plaques were awarded to the top fishermen each year!

When Forest complained that he enjoyed sitting out on the lake and fishing for himself others laughed and told him, "you've got to get with the times, everything changes, change is the only constant, tech is the future, go with the flow man!" (by Jeff KE9V)

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

On 10 Sep 2024, shitty said the following...

.... God didn't intend for people to get
tailgated, phone-scammed, or news-activated.

Evil does intend for all of this to happen.

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

When Forest complained that he enjoyed sitting out on the lake and
fishing for himself others laughed and told him, "you've got to get with the times, everything changes, change is the only constant, tech is the future, go with the flow man!" (by Jeff KE9V)

That sounds like a Twighlight Zone episode!

Taking a break from electronic stuff is very rewarding. When I go on vacation, my phone is on do-not-disturb, I don't read the news, I don't have any work to do, and I come back home feeling like I just had a full body massage.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

.... God didn't intend for people to get
tailgated, phone-scammed, or news-activated.

Evil does intend for all of this to happen.

It never ends well. Not even watching the news. I can't remember the last time I watched the news and said to myself "I'm so glad that I just watched that." They don't tell us happy stuff, unless the happy stuff has an evil underlying meaning.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

On 11 Sep 2024, shitty said the following...

.... God didn't intend for people to get
tailgated, phone-scammed, or news-activated.

Evil does intend for all of this to happen.

It never ends well. Not even watching the news. I can't remember the
last time I watched the news and said to myself "I'm so glad that I just watched that." They don't tell us happy stuff, unless the happy stuff
has an evil underlying meaning.

Remember the news is not designed to enrich us, rather it is meant to tantalize us with whatever attracts our attention. Tittalation, horror, raw sex, blood/gore, fear triggers...

All curated to draw you in.

Don't get any romantic ideas about the news.

--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

last time I watched the news and said to myself "I'm so glad that I j watched that." They don't tell us happy stuff, unless the happy stuff has an evil underlying meaning.

Remember the news is not designed to enrich us, rather it is meant to tantalize us with whatever attracts our attention. Tittalation, horror, raw sex, blood/gore, fear triggers...

Good point! Now how do we explain this to 244 million voters? :(

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)

On Wednesday, September 11th warmfuzzy muttered...

How my Grandmother Lost $18,000 CAD --------

It wasn't a trojan, or spy ware, or even a physical attack. The attack used common remote access software used to root her computer. AnyDesk

The lesson here is that people with Dementia shouldn't even be allowed to use a Computer, much less have access to their own finances.

You wouldn't let a person with Dementia operate a lawnmower or drive a car, for fear of harming themselves or others, so why a computer? With access to their bank accounts?

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 18.18.2)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (700:100/9)

I read in the latest medical news about half a year ago that some cases of dementia are caused by fungus in brain. And doctors treat dementia with antifungal drugs. Doctors are too lazy to deal with each patient. It was written that there are 50 types of dementia. Perhaps you need to contact doctors who are inquisitive and follow science.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (700:100/69)