I think that it is essential that our media be preserved in case of an all-out war that turns this earth into a barren rock in several places. I will examine various software tools that can be used to archive your favorite media. Please note that using this information for media piracy could get you into a lot of trouble, however, in my opinion this is a fair dealings if it is never distributed or sold, but kept in hidden places like was done with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Only for the purpose of preservation of our culture and history should this effort be taken up. You seriously don't want to get in trouble with the copyright police. There is a valid argument for the preservation of our history as a people if its done without monetary compensation and is not shared around to be consumed before the point where the copyright expires.

So here's what to use to back up your media:

Audible Audio Books: https://epubor.com/audible-converter.html
YouTube: https://itubego.com/4k-youtube-video-downloader64/
YouTube (free): https://www.rapidseedbox.com/blog/yt-dlp-complete-guide
CD-ROM Audio (free): https://installati.one/ubuntu/21.04/icedax/
DVD/BDR Video: https://redfox.bz/anydvdhd.html
eBooks: https://epubor.com/ultimate.html

Good luck on your new adventure in archiving our global history, just remember folks don't share this stuff around but may it be used for the sole purpose of keeping our ideas kept and not lost to time.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Certainly archiving is a worthwhile thing, but we need to be mindful of how long we're backing up for.

For example, if we're saying that we're backing up for personal use through a period of trials (say, tensions flare with China and our internet infrastructure becomes unreliable), that's one thing, and valuable.

On the other hand, if we're saying that, as a planet, we get bombed back to the stone age, and there are only small pockets of civilization left, that's very different. In that case it could be centuries before any new gear is constructed, and those generations would have an archaeological task to recover data from crazy media that was used in the past.

In that case, analog is going to win; printed media, books, vinyl records, kept in friendly climates (ala the Dead Sea Scrolls).

All that to say, be mindful of supporting infrastructure and the balance between keeping things available for your children/grandchildren (to include multiple copies of your critical media, multiple devices of different types/brands, etc) and for perpetuity (acid free paper media, sealed, stored somewhere with appropriate climate, etc).

Side thought, try to make a means of printing available to the folks in need; we may have stocked up on all media made by man, but the future generation using it will know what's important and what they need to make paper copies of for when the tech fails.

GreenLFC º e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro º masto> GLFC@mstdn.starnix.network
Avoids Politics on BBS º gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Certainly archiving is a worthwhile thing, but we need to be mindful of how long we're backing up for.
In that case, analog is going to win; printed media, books, vinyl
records, kept in friendly climates (ala the Dead Sea Scrolls).

Great response Greenlfc! Yes, if we do do digital backups we will need to include media in various forms, optical drives, tape backup, solid state media, etc. We will also need to include several varieties of computers so that those archives could still be read after being found many decades from now. Also, you're right about printed material on acid free paper... this would be a great addition to the archives.

Thanks!
Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

On 19 May 2023, warmfuzzy said the following...

Great response Greenlfc! Yes, if we do do digital backups we will need
to include media in various forms, optical drives, tape backup, solid state media, etc. We will also need to include several varieties of computers so that those archives could still be read after being found many decades from now. Also, you're right about printed material on
acid free paper... this would be a great addition to the archives.

Thanks! If you want to carry on down the rabbit hole, then you're looking at new capacitors, belts, cleaning supplies, etc to maintain those mechanical devices. Also, removing any internal batteries from the archival systems and ensuring the system will still work.

When you look at folks running retro systems, battery leakage, such as the the Varta battery on the old Amiga 500s, are a common failure mode, destroying gear.

For myself, I go with a balance. I've got a decent library of paper books, and a deep library of digital material on portable devices. If we go far enough down an electronics-destroying timeline, the books will keep us functional. I'm not too worried about keeping electronics going forever.

GreenLFC º e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro º masto> GLFC@mstdn.starnix.network
Avoids Politics on BBS º gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Thanks! If you want to carry on down the rabbit hole, then you're
looking at new capacitors, belts, cleaning supplies, etc to maintain
those mechanical devices. Also, removing any internal batteries from
the archival systems and ensuring the system will still work.

Where do you think the best places would be to hide the media archives?

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

On 22 May 2023, warmfuzzy said the following...

Where do you think the best places would be to hide the media archives?

Depends on purpose, I reckon. If you're going "Dead Sea Scrolls" and storing stuff for future generations, I think you could do a lot worse than paper, or even microfiche, vacuum sealed, placed in an ammo can or pelican case of some type, sealed again, and stuck in a remote cave.

For your own use, you could do similar and hide in a septic tank or similar unpleasant location.

Digital archives can be concealed anywhere on MicroSD cards. You could even build some furniture and, as you're assembling, carve out a small pocket for some cards, such that you'd have to disassemble or destroy the object to get to them.

GreenLFC º e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro º masto> GLFC@mstdn.starnix.network
Avoids Politics on BBS º gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

In a Faraday Caged enclosure. And then burried at least a few feet deep. That would survive nuclear fallout.

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (700:100/84)

I think that it is essential that our media be preserved in case of an all-out war that turns this earth into a barren rock in several places.

Good topic. I have an extensive Kiwix collection.

Kiwix allows you to run a local intranet w/ data from many sources... for example, you run a Raspberry Pi w/ Kiwix installed and the entirety of WikiPedia [80gig]... Kiwix creates a Wifi hotspot - you connect and can browse/search all of WikiPedia.
https://www.kiwix.org/en/

There are TONS of other 'ZIM files' that you can grab... for example, and Ubuntu or Arch Linux one - explaining ALL about those topics.

Or, you can download the ENTIRE StackExchange for topics... its insane. https://library.kiwix.org/?lang=eng

I have a dedicated Raspberry Pi 4 w/ Kiwix installed and an external 2TB HDD stocked with tons of topics. Theres even like... gardening or automotive repair - yer only limit is the space you can dedicate to yer bugout data box.

Mine is all installed in a little Pelican case - and no matter what I'll have a Wifi hotspot with a lot of data if shit hits the fan... anyone else use Kiwix or ZIMs??



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Digital archives can be concealed anywhere on MicroSD cards. You could even build some furniture and, as you're assembling, carve out a small pocket for some cards, such that you'd have to disassemble or destroy
the object to get to them.

Sounds good. This would be stored for future generations, like 40-200 years. So for this purpose a hollowed out compartment on a chair might not work so well, however your ideas of microSD cards is a good one. I've seen name brand microSD manufacturers put out chips with 512 G of data. So storing data on microSD cards would be more dense in terms of data to physical volume. Also with Samsung cards they offer "x-ray proof, water proof, and one other feature that doesn't come to my mind at this time.... i think the extra feature is heat proof. But anyways, the Samsung cards seem to be the very best. I'm thinking now of getting one of those super heavy duty \hard plastic storage boxes for guns and valuables. They go for about $120 USD and would make the whole kit having an extra layer of water protection. These boxes also don't break down, as in never ever break down. Which from an environmental perspective is horrible, but for this purpose would be just fantastic.

What do you think of for a place that these can be stored? I'm thinking at the bottom of a lake with a very large concrete block attached or being encased in concrete on all sides but one... any ideas?

Another thought is if it were attached to concrete blocks at the bottom of a lake it would need to have included a laptop or small computer I'd need an extra large protective case for the archive to be stored on, so we're looking big here in terms of physical storage for the kit...

The reason it would need a laptop (or hardened computer) is because it would need to be accessible from future generations who have long since forgotten what our tech now-a-days is like. Also, in the winter time it would need to survive -20degC temperatures at the bottom of the lake.

What's your words on this everyone?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

On 30 May 2023, warmfuzzy said the following...

Sounds good. This would be stored for future generations, like 40-200 years. So for this purpose a hollowed out compartment on a chair might

200 years of electronic data is *tough*. Even if the media survives flawlessly (and the idea of sinking it is solid, to protect it from radiation/cosmic rays/etc, and keeps it at a constant temperature), someone's got to be able to read it.

If you were to walk up to me today and hand me a hard sectored 8" floppy disk from 40-50 years ago, it would probably take me *months* to recover the data off of it reasonably safely. Look at what CuriousMarc went through with that fossil archive.

Dropping a computer off with it may or may not help. If you're serious, you'd need to have everything they would need to build it from the ground up; clean PCB, detailed schematic, any specialized chips that are necessary, etc. Again, look at 40 year old computers today, or even 30 year old computers with random self-destructing components.

It's another case of perhaps going for a diversity of devices. Remove all batteries, of course, and pick things that can be powered by simple DC power. Different devices from different brands will die at different rates and give you a higher chance of success.

A fun idea I just had that may or may not work would be to replace all of the electrolytics with pin headers so A) they don't leak on the board and B) hopefully that future generation can swap them on easier.

GreenLFC º e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro º masto> GLFC@mstdn.starnix.network
Avoids Politics on BBS º gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Hello warmfuzzy!

** On Tuesday 30.05.23 - 13:19, warmfuzzy wrote to Greenlfc:

Digital archives can be concealed anywhere on MicroSD cards. You could Gr>> even build some furniture and, as you're assembling, carve out a small Gr>> pocket for some cards, such that you'd have to disassemble or destroy
the object to get to them.

Sounds good. This would be stored for future generations, like 40-200
years. So for this purpose a hollowed out compartment on a chair might not work so well, however your ideas of microSD cards is a good one. I've seen name brand microSD manufacturers put out chips with 512 G of data. ...

Perhaps a lesson can be learned from film-industry archives
that stored original prints/copies (suitable for projectors).

Instead of trying to preserve the original physical media (and
later find that the original film is too delicate or
deteriorated for practical re-use) maintain a system that
converts or transfers that media to the current technology
available as it emerges. eg, 35mm/70mm movie film -> VHS ->
DVD -> SD -> whatever.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (700:100/16)

https://www.kiwix.org/en/
There are TONS of other 'ZIM files' that you can grab... for example, and Ubuntu or Arch Linux one - explaining ALL about those topics.

WOW!!! paulie420, that is a really amazing sweet link! I'd never heard of
that before. I'm going to look more into it and perhaps teach a lesson on databases and archives for offline viewing in one of my classes. Excellent find!

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Dropping a computer off with it may or may not help. If you're serious, you'd need to have everything they would need to build it from the
ground up; clean PCB, detailed schematic, any specialized chips that are

Yes, I'm quite serious about this. I'll try to have the archive on multiple media with multiple systems to read the media. I'm thinking that this might be an expensive venture, but I also think that its worth it.

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

Instead of trying to preserve the original physical media (and
later find that the original film is too delicate or
deteriorated for practical re-use) maintain a system that
converts or transfers that media to the current technology
available as it emerges. eg, 35mm/70mm movie film -> VHS ->
DVD -> SD -> whatever.

a progressively updating archive... a very cool idea... would i keep going back to the archive's drop spot or have several drop sites? So would I have a certain place to update periodically and swap out the archive, or just leave the archive in place and find a new spot each major update?

Cheers!
-warmfuzzy

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (700:100/37)

On 02 Jun 2023, warmfuzzy said the following...

Instead of trying to preserve the original physical media (and later find that the original film is too delicate or
deteriorated for practical re-use) maintain a system that
converts or transfers that media to the current technology available as it emerges. eg, 35mm/70mm movie film -> VHS ->
DVD -> SD -> whatever.

a progressively updating archive... a very cool idea... would i keep
going back to the archive's drop spot or have several drop sites? So would I have a certain place to update periodically and swap out the archive, or just leave the archive in place and find a new spot each
major update?

IMHO, if you were going to go that route, then rotating through a few locations makes sense. I'm reminded of that buried car time capsule that flooded and was a huge disappointment when it came up. Even if you lost a later version of the archive, you'd still have a chance of grabbing the previous one.

GreenLFC º e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro º masto> GLFC@mstdn.starnix.network
Avoids Politics on BBS º gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

Hello warmfuzzy!

** On Friday 02.06.23 - 18:50, warmfuzzy wrote to Ogg:

a progressively updating archive... a very cool idea... would
i keep going back to the archive's drop spot or have several
drop sites? So would I have a certain place to update
periodically and swap out the archive, or just leave the
archive in place and find a new spot each major update?

I would think same number of spots, but replace the tech when
the support tech changes, otherwise just add to the collection.

And no point adding to the old tech archive type, eg. VHS or
BetaMAX.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (700:100/16)

https://www.kiwix.org/en/
There are TONS of other 'ZIM files' that you can grab... for example, Ubuntu or Arch Linux one - explaining ALL about those topics.

WOW!!! paulie420, that is a really amazing sweet link! I'd never heard
of that before. I'm going to look more into it and perhaps teach a
lesson on databases and archives for offline viewing in one of my
classes. Excellent find!

Yea, its great; I have a Pelican case w/ the whole of wikipedia, stackOverflow [several Linux and other platforms], gardening, auto-repair and other stuff. I think its a damn good tool for bugout bags.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)

So here's what to use to back up your media:

I think all of what you've mentioned may be expendable in most cases.
What I found more useful is this:

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com, please back this website up completely and seal. ALso printed version (check offline) as 3 books is something I would seal in a concrete bunker.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS >> 20ForBeers.com:1337 (700:100/71)