-Mark Harris


For some period of time, we've been subjected to the questionable
postings of one Walter Bartoo. This has gone endlessly back and forth,
trying the patience of the most calm participants, and driving the rest
of us to distraction. Enough is enough; I've put in about as much
effort as I'm likely to on this crap.

I've even gone to the extent of contacting Walter directly through
NetMail, and offering my services as a writer to clarify his
statements, allegations, and beliefs. This turned out to be
unnecessary, as his "Solinus" can communicate clearly with the written
word, and has done so, both in the March/April newsletter posted on
this conference, and the Jan/Feb '93 newsletter that Walter sent to me.

Most likely, no one here really needs to hear this, but I'll say it
anyway. It's all fake. This is one of the worst cases I've ever seen of
psuedo-scientific garbage, fake spiritualism, and generally poor
thinking; I'm frankly amazed that Mr. Bartoo can operate a computer,
let alone put all of this together.

Here's a few of the contradictions:

Date: 03-05-93 09:16 (Public)
From: WALTER BARTOO
To: MICHAEL THOMAS
Subject: ASHTAR COMMAND

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> In 1965 or earlier Pavlov was summoned to the Kremlin. Kruschev said

>> write everything down you know on animal conditioning or your wife

>> and kids die! We at the time had our double agent as number two guy

>> in the Kremlin who smuggled this very large text out of russia to

>> the U.S., now my point is!


> Don't know where you get your information Walter, but Pavlov died in
> 1936, quite a bit before 1965, and certainly before Kruschev ever
> came to power. That was still the age of Stalin. At least get your
> history straight before you try to persuade us of something.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

What a mind-blower. Cooper Himself couldn't have provided a more
uneducated, blatant contradiction of reality if he'd tried.

How about this?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Area: UFO
Msg: #91
Date: 03-09-93 09:41 (Public)
From: WALTER BARTOO
To: DANNI BREWI
Subject: ANOTHER ALIEN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> original post due to HD crash. But there is new things verifying the
>> l thing and I've known for a long while they do exist. Next
>> newsletter

> Walter,
> The word I would refer to is "lizy"...could you please verify...You
> say there is new things that "verify".....Thank you..


(WB) Lizy means Lizards or Reptillians. Some of us feel the planetoid
is in orbit around Mars. Reason being it is out of range of
Nuclear Missles. Once this is corrected we think it will come
closer. Correction only an opinion is what is coming in on the
fire balls will try and destroy missle capability first. Walter

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently, Mars is just past opposition; this means just past the point
where it lies directly opposite of the Sun, and is it's closest
approach to the earth. It has two moons, visible in larger amatuer
telescopes, a few miles across. OK, so you stated this as an "opinion"
this time; it just isn't there, Walter. An object 1,000 km across would
even show a disc at that distance, in large telescopes, and Mars has
been under continous watch by just such instruments all over the world
for months. Nothing new in orbit around it, or anywhere near it. Your
report is FAKE, period.

Point in fact, the whole report of a 1,000 km asteroid with reptoids in
it, coming to make dinner out of us, is a really major hoax. Yet you
keep on citing it as evidence of the "Evil ET's", and your whole reason
for posting your nonsense: to "wake us up" to it all, to "open our
eyes" to the reptoid threat.

There is _no_ such asteroid. Something that size moving into the inner
solar system would be fairly easily spotted, and there's no way to
cover up such a discovery. In addition to the professional astronomers
and their observatory instruments, there's literally _millions_ of
amatuers all over the world, and many of them diligently search for
just such asteroids. Their reward, of course, is having it named after
them; that's also why most comets are first spotted by amatuers. It's
all FAKE, Walter, but I suspect you knew that.

Your references to fireballs shows major ignorance of basic astronomy.
Allow me to educate you.

The meteors we see streaking across the night sky are about the size of
a grain of sand. No kidding. The fireballs that leave a glowing trail
for several seconds after their passage are about the size of a pea.
Your reptoids would have to be pretty small to ride one to the surface,
if that was even possible.

For a meteroic fragment to actually reach the surface of our planet, it
must start out at about 20 pounds; around the size of the average human
head. What actually makes it to the surface, assuming it made it in one
piece, would be lucky to be about the size of a baseball. Anything that
size, BTW, leaves a truly impressive flaming streak across the sky, and
usually makes national news. Well it should: those meteorites which
actually survive to crash onto the surface of our planet contain a lot
of valuable information about our solar system; when it formed, what
materials are out there, the list goes on and on. When one is sighted,
people from all over flock to the area to search for it; I suppose your
reptoids are using "mind control" to hide their presence? Given the
falsity of your allegations so far, I rather doubt it.

Here's what you had to say in your January/February 1993 newsletter
about some other supposedly scientifically based events:

"The wobble that has developed in the axis has increased and if
stabilization does not occur then a figure eight rotational pattern
will result which will cause water to inundate the land. This will be
followed by more instability of the continents which have movement of
their own and this also effects the fluid base beneath the land masses
upon which they float. All of these are effected by the use of ELF
waves and microwaves. Earth has begun her corrective action. We
forecast that 1993 will be a year of many physical changes on the
surface of this planet."

That's not even good psuedo-science. There's no "wobble", Walter; no
matter how many times you try to say it, it DOESN'T EXIST. Even amatuer
astronomers would be aware of it if it was real. Many of use make
observiations of what are called "occultations", and "grazing
occultations". This is where an asteroid or other orbital body passes
in front of a star, or just grazes the edge of the image. These events
are carefully timed according to at least one (and preferably two) WWV
atomic clock time signals. The time from first contact to last gives an
accurate size of the asteroid, for example; much more information can
be gleaned from a series of such observations. The point here is that
if the earth had a new wobble, or if any of the rotational
characteristics of the earth changed, they would immediately show up in
the timing of such events, in a way that not even the newcomer to this
hobby could possibly miss.

You obviously don't understand the ELF project, either. It's not too
far away from me, here in Wisconsin; when I went to school for
electronics, we learned a lot about it. We were curious, of course, and
one of our instructors was a former Navy man who actually worked on the
project.

Here's the basic problem they faced. We've got these great nuclear
submarines, but to get a message to them, they had to risk giving away
their location by coming near the surface and extending an antenna
above the water. Radio waves, over the vast majority of the part of the
electromagnetic spectrum we normally use, are either absorbed by the
water or reflected off of it. This is due entirely to the wavelength of
the radio transmission.

Ever wonder why radar transmissions are in the microwave range?
Microwave, BTW, refers to a specific portion of the electromagnetic
spectrum where the wavelengths are very short. That's also where ham
radio operators get their "2 meter band" and so on. If the wavelength
of the radio transmission is larger than the object it's beamed at, it
will pass right through it, unless the material contains a substance
which absorbs that frequency. So, to reflect a radio wave off of some
object, it's length must be smaller. Radar just won't work unless it
uses very high frequencies.

The ELF project was trying to do just the opposite; it was to produce
radio waves at a frequency where it would pass through the earth
itself, _without_any_kind_of_interaction_at_all_. Get it? ELF waves
can't be effecting people, plants, buildings, or the earth itself. They
are deliberately designed to pass through these things, without any
interference at all. You've made other allegations, that these waves
are producing "gravitational anomolies" or "shifts", and this is even
more absurd. Our most advanced science has not yet produced a device
which will allow the interaction of the electromagnetic force and
gravity. As I said before, this isn't even good pseudo-science.

Now, all of this is well and good; we already KNEW that one Mr. Bartoo
was full of it. Even the most cursory examination of his position shows
incredible errors and outright hoaxes. Here's an excerpt from a post
dated 3-13-93, to Don Allen (mis-addressed to Dan Ross), where Mr.
Bartoo states his position on the subject of proof:

"I can't prove anything to anyone. None of you can. When you believe
something it still is not proof. When you see something you cannot
share or verify that observation because the only way to really know
something is to experience it yourself. If everyones experience were
proven to everyone else then we'd have a group believing something that
still to another would not be proof."

Well, Walter, certainly _your_ ideas and allegations can't be proved;
one of the first and only honest things you've done in all this is to
admit that. It can't be proved for the simple reason that none of it is
true, and it's my personal opinion that it's that personal knowlege of
yours, that your whole line is, indeed, fake, that makes you so
defensive. The only way to accept your ravings is to suspend disbelief,
and perhaps get a frontal lobotomy; nothing short of that will win any
thinking person over to your demonstratably false views.

Here's a paragraph, with the header, from your March/April 1993
newsletter posted on this conference:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY: KNOW YOUR OWN MANIFESTATION POWER, AND SOON
the Earth and her inhabitants are not as you may seem. In one sense you
are an illusion. I say one sense as all forms of thought create
illusions, at least from your physical perspective. This may sound like
double talk, but it is really an attempt to give a simple explanation
for your basic premise of existences. It is not my intent to confuse in
this matter, so I will not dwell on it further.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, now, I recognize that. I even asked Walter about it, in one of
the many posts to him which he did not answer, and which he later
claimed not to have seen.

There was a whole series of books by Jane Roberts, the first of which
was "Seth Speaks". "Seth" was a "higher being" of some sort, who
dictated those books through Jane Roberts. That's right, they were all
channeled. I found them when I was in high school, and read every one
of them; they make a good read, if nothing else. There's also a lot of
really good messages in them, even if I don't agree with much of what
is presented there as reality.

"Seth" had two main messages. "You create your own reality", and "you
belong to a larger, multi-dimensional reality, which only your larger
self is aware of". I asked specifically if Walter had read any of these
books; after reading more of his newsletters, it's clear to me that he
didn't respond because the basic structure of his view of the universe
was lifted directly from the pages of the "Seth" books. What I quoted
above could have come out of any of them (I no longer have the books,
or I would look it up), but it sounds to me like it came out of "The
Nature of Personal Reality", the second or third book of the series.

So, not only are the "factual" portions of Walter's view flatly faked,
wrong, and hoaxed, his spiritual view of the universe was plagarised as
well. Nowhere in any of Walter's postings, or his personal writings, is
there _anything_ to indicate that any portion of his ramblings are
true.

As I said at the beginning, I've had it with this nonsense. Walter has
perpetrated a major hoax on us, been massively abusive to those who
only requested further information, and also violated the rules of this
echo in several respects, listed here:

1-* Discuss UFO. This is rule number one. This is not the forum
of discussion of religion, time travel, out of body
experiences and what not. However, the discussion of any
topic is admissable if it directly relates to the UFO
phenomenon. UFO is defined specifically as Unidentified
Flying Objects, and should not be taken to mean anything
else.

Let me insert one little note: Mr. Bartoo has abused the one exception
here by trying to tie his "religious" beliefs into UFO's. I believe
it's been demonstrated just how fake all of those allegations are; his
own posts show that most of what he's about is spiritual in nature, and
far outside any rational investigation of the UFO phenomena.

4-* Absolutely no advertising. That means no BBS ads, no service-
to-others ads, no personal ads, no any kind of ads.

And that's my last argument, and for me, the last straw. The only way
any rational person could possibly cling to such obviously false ideas
is if they stood to get some money for it. It wasn't two weeks ago that
Mr. Bartoo mentioned that his newsletter was for sale, and now they've
posted a full ad for "love donations".

I had asked Don Allen, the Moderator, if he would allow me some time to
get to the bottom of this, and he granted it. I see no reason to delay
any longer; Don, whatever actions you were going to take, I'm done with
Bartoo's fakery and abuse.

TO DON ALLEN:

This is just my personal opinion, and not one I'm going to press with
you or anyone else. Still, it's something I would like to say, here in
the open echo.

Mr. Bartoo has abused our patience and insulted our intelligence
enough. He's violated both the echo's rules, and those of the FidoNet
itself; it's my strictly personal opinion that his access to the
FidoNet should be immediately and permanently removed. His has been an
extreme case, and should be met with equally extreme measures.

Now, that's just my opinion, and most likely the only time I'll state
it. I'll support whatever decision is made; call this just my personal
"vote".

Regards,

Mark R. Harris

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(4352) Fri 19 Mar 93 1:24a
By: Mark Harris
To: Don Allen
Re: More Bartoo fraud
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 03-16-93 DON ALLEN wrote to ALL...

> Be advised that Walt does NOT 'channel' but as much fuss as these
> posts are

Hi, Don;

I wish I'd kept all of Walter's posts; as it is, I usually only keep a
couple of weeks' worth on my system. However, early on, he flatly
claimed he "channeled", but only for the "Trons". His story changed
when the Ashtar thing came up, and became "telepathic contact" and
meetings on UFO's. Like Cooper, Walter's story changes to fit the
conditions; remember the Pavlov post, and the Guardian(s) stuff? Parts
of his on-going story he finds here, then includes it as if it were
true all along.

> controversial aspects are those that center around the Pleiadian
> contacts of Billy Meier. It seems to me to be a matter of extremes.

I haven't commented on the Pleidians much before, but this has a
bearing on some claims Walter has made, and both are false for similiar
reasons.

The Pleides (the star cluster, that is) is made up of a little more
than 100 stars. They are young, blue-white, extremely hot stars no more
than a few million years old. They are also large, which means that
they burn fuel a couple of orders of magnitude faster than our sun, and
will burn themselves out in about another 10 to 20 million years. Note
that I said _million_; stars of this type just don't last very long.

That whole region of space is full of interstellar gas: mostly
hydrogen, some helium, carbon, oxygen, and other elements. It's visible
in larger amatuer telescopes. It's been whipped to tremendous speeds by
the energy of these stars, making the whole region a seething hell of
hot gasses and radiation. It would be sheer stupidity (if you were
aware of these conditions in the first place) to state that there are
_any_ beings, civilisations, or craft in that area. You just can't
reconcile the supposed superiority of alien intelligence with such an
obviously poor decision; no one familiar with the conditions that
prevail in that region of space would even remotely consider putting
anything there, or even traveling through it. Most especially since if
you have the technological ability to travel the stars, there are much,
much more hospitable places in the galaxy to put yourself.

> On the other hand, very little has been posited about 'who' and
> 'what' are the 'good guys'. Is it possible such a 'Confederation'
> does exist, and if so is there proof of it? And if such does exist,
> how come

I pulled this out of Walter's other newsletter, January-February 1993:

"says he is. The Metatrons are a "very old" universal presence. The
Trons have had many experiences from many universes. They are very good
at what they are doing within their Earth presence."

They appear to be entirely metaphysical creatures. This remains one of
my objections to Walter posting his ... stuff ... on this echo. At the
very best, most of what he's selling is religion, and I strenously
object to his making use of this echo for that.

The origin of the "Dark Lords of Orion" are stated somewhat more
clearly, as in this quote from that same document:

" Who are they? The answer is a secret government that controls all
governments and it is run by the Dark Lords of Orion. These beings
have come and gone since the time of Atlan- tis and have set up all
forms of social consciousness within the many different religions and
Earth societies. They come from a small area of Orion and consider
Earth and ALL life here their property. They are representatives of
and serve the Draconian Empire. They conquer, pillage, rape and
destroy all existing systems that fall under their control."

Now you'll see why I dealt with the Pleides above; the two regions are
similiar. BTW, it's just my opinion, but I believe the reason you see
these areas mentioned as the origin of aliens so often is because those
two regions are among the most photographed and published of all of the
astronomical objects in our galaxy. They are also among the first any
amatuer looks at through a telescope.

The Orion region is another birthplace of new stars, but at an earlier
stage than the Pleides. The dust and gas there is in the process of
collapsing into new stars and solar systems; to say the least, it's a
contradiction to claim that region as the home of an older, more
advanced civilisation. It CAN'T be; the solar systems that these "Dark
Lords of Orion" supposedly come from haven't even fully formed yet.

Even the oldest stars in the region are only a few million years old.
The brightest star in that consetllation, Betelguese, is a red super-
giant getting ready to nova. That means it's just one stage ahead of
the Pleiades; not that long ago, comparatively, it was just as blue-
white and active as the Pleides. It was also one of the first formed
out of the Orion gas cloud.

The reasons I cited above for advanced civilisations avoiding the
Pleides cluster are even more true for the Orion region of the sky.

Why would any advanced civilisation deliberately put themselves into a
place guaranteed to be uninhabitable?

What Walter proposes is a fraud, and not even a well done fraud, at
that. I don't care how long he tries to cling to it, but neither do I
have much desire to have people such as him and Cooper try to persuade
me they're correct, when they are so obviously wrong.

Oddly enough, since he first started posting, various names have had a
familiar ring. "Orvotron", "Metatrons", "Dark Lords of Orion". When I
was growing up, I bought just about every comic book I could, and I
vaguely remember a story using those names; from sometime between 1969
and 1974, perhaps. I'd have an answer by now if I hadn't sold my comic
books, but I'm in the process of looking for it at local stores, etc.
I'll let you know if I can come up with a title, unless Walter would
like to tell us first. <G>

Regards,

Mark R. Harris


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