The following file comes from the hard work of Bill Ralls and Allen Robinson. My thanks goes out to them.

Don Ecker
UFOs Tonite!
Cable Radio Network **************************************************************


The following are excerpts, highlights if you will from an inter-view of Dr. Bruce Maccabee (UFO researcher and physicist at the Naval Surface Weapons Laboratory) on August 8, 1993, by Don Ecker on the Cable Radio Network program UFOs Tonite! This was pre-pared by Allen Robinson (with whom the responsibility for any errors resides), with the vital assistance of Bill Ralls and the gracious permission of Don Ecker.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Topic: Dr. Maccabee and the CIA.

Ecker: "I guess the first thing we have to ask is, did you in fact, over the years, on a number of occasions, brief CIA?"

Maccabee: "It would be more correct to say that I presented some >lectures there. Briefing sounds a bit too formal. ....
First of all, my first talk at the CIA was in 1979, as a result >of the New Zealand sightings. The AIR report implies that I had >actively sought out the CIA to talk to them, which is incorrect. >Talking to the CIA would have been the farthest thing from my >mind. What really happened was this: I came back from
Australia and New Zealand where I carried out a major part in >the investigation. And then I started consulting with a number >of people as I started across the United States to get back to >the Washington, DC area. When back in Washington, I mentioned >to ... the head of NICAP at the time, that I would be interested >in talking to any radar experts. He happened to know of a guy >named Gordon MacDonald who was a chief scientist at Mitre Cor->poration in McLean, Virginia, at the time. He contacted Gordon >MacDonald and MacDonald invited me to go and talk at Mitre,>which I did--to him and two other scientists there--for three >or four hours, and they seemed to agree with what I was saying >in terms of my radar analysis of the New Zealand sightings." _________________________________________________________________

Dr. Maccabee said that a few days later he learned that Gordon MacDonald had contacted some people at the CIA who knew about radar. They contacted Maccabee and invited him to come over and talk to them. _________________________________________________________________

Maccabee: "What I had wanted to do was what I had done pre->viously for various people. I had presented the information to >go over the New Zealand sightings history and then my analysis >of the radar aspects and get their comments on what they thought >was happening, because there was a big controversy over whether >these were so-called 'radar angels' which are radar returns >(i.e., signatures that appear on a radar set) due to atmospheric >effects, or actual solid craft out there. So, I talked to this >group of people. I didn't know who they were. And I got some >comments, some feedback.

And then, one of the guys mentioned in >the AIR report invited me back for a more general discussion of >the UFO field. And a week or so later I went back and we talked >I guess about general UFOlogy. There were two other guys there,>people who basically had an interest in the subject. ...." Ecker: "What was the level of interest in the people that you talked to at CIA? Was it more-or-less casual?"

Maccabee: "I would say more or less casual, although I think >they may have been intrigued from the point of view of an
interesting test of their ability to explain things.....

"The second discussion I had at the CIA did mention a number of >documents that the CIA might have had, and a comment came out >that there might be thousands more. .... The guy who told me >that knew well enough that he didn't know everything about what >the CIA had. Now, it alleges in the AIR document that I con->tinued to have meetings with the CIA, 1979 through 1983, which >is false. After the second 1979 meeting, I didn't have any >further conversations or meetings at the CIA--had no further >contact, period. And probably wouldn't have, if it hadn't been >for the fact that some of the work I do for the Navy became of >interest to the CIA in 1984. At which point I was contacted >again, but by a totally different person (nobody that I had >ever met before) and I went there and briefed him (this was a >briefing) on some work I was doing for the Navy. ....
I didn't say a thing about UFOs and neither did the other guy >that I was talking to. But he must have found out somehow-->somebody there recognized me."

Ecker: "Now, we're talking about the Directorate of Science and Technology, Ron Pandolphi--is that correct?"

Maccabee: "Yeah, one of the employees who works in that."

Ecker: "Pandolphi."

Maccabee: "Right. And he was interested in some Navy work that >I was doing because he was tracking what at that time was the >Soviet version of it. And subsequently, somebody mentioned to >him that I had been there previously. So he called me up and >started askingme about this stuff that I had talked about back >in 1979.

Maccabee: "I would go over there occasionally in the following >years to talk about this particular item of interest from the >Navy work and sometimes get into discussions of what was going >on in the field of UFOs."

Ecker: "Did you realize how these things might look or would look, and did you assume that they would stay secret? .... Did you assume that this would not become an issue?

Maccabee: "Well, I hadn't made it an issue and it still
wouldn't be an issue if it hadn't been that Mr. Zechel has a >hidden agenda here, which people who don't know anything about >him wouldn't be aware of."

Ecker: "Now we're talking about W. Todd Zechel, one of the primary authors of this document. Many people may not know who he is."

Maccabee: "Actually, I now realize it was quite a success, or >evidence of stature in the scientific field. The guys over >there at the Agency who were interested knew of my work in con->ventional science and considered that highly enough so that >they'd be willing to listen to me talk about something that was >totally unconventional. Thery're pretty skeptical about the >whole subject."

Ecker: "Let's get this out right now, and I would like you to make a definitive statement. One of the things that have been suggested with your contact with people within CIA, and one of the things that invariably probably will get brought up is the fact that you are a disinformation person." ....

Maccabee: "The straightforward statement is, I have not
received any information from them for information or disin->formation. I have not received information from them, period."

Ecker: "Now one of the things that you had told me that they did have an interest in when you were over there lecturing ... you had indicated that a couple of people were interested in certain personalities in the field and in the computer bulletin networks --computer bulletin boards. Can you elaborate ...?"

Maccabee: "Well, they had somebody, one guy over there, I guess >who was interested in the subject, had checked bulletin boards >and came upon the stuff that was dumped on there by Lear and >Cooper and all those other people. What was that, 1988?"

Ecker: "Yeah, '88 - '89. Now was this official, or was this his own interest?"

Maccabee: "So far as I could tell it was just his own interest. >You know, I don't know what the hell they do there. I can't say >that it absolutely was not official. But I've been led to >believe at least, that this was just a question of the guy being >interested in the subject, and checking on bulletin boards to >see if there's anything on UFOs and coming on this Lear and >Cooper stuff on CompuServe. I don't know where else it might >have been but I know it was on CompuServe, because I checked in >on some of it myself. .... Well, anyway, I guess the guy who >checked up on that stuff, coming not too long after the MJ-12 >revelations and so on, didn't know what to make of it. So,>they asked me what was my opinion of this stuff that they were >finding on the computer network, and I told them that I didn't >have a very high opinion of it. I think that Lear and certainly >Cooper started off with some relative level of credibility, but >very quickly went down the drain."

_________________________________________________________________

Topic: The MJ-12 documents. _________________________________________________________________

Ecker asks if Maccabee thinks the MJ-12 documents made public by Bill Moore are real or disinformation.

Maccabee: "I would say it's still an open question."

It is alleged in the AIR document that Bill Moore faked the MJ-12 documents. Maccabee says he does not believe this.

"But if they were faked, they were faked by somebody who is >pretty damn clever and who knew things about history that we >didn't know until the investigations of the documents began. >.... [I]f Roswell was true, there was some organization that >had to do that job. It might not have been 'MJ-12.' If the >papers were generated to draw us off the trail, it caused us to >waste a lot of time but it didn't draw us off the trail. It >made us look harder."

"I would say that, assuming that the Roswell crash was real, >which is a reasonable assumption based on all the testimony >that we have, that there must be some hardware somewhere. And >if there is hardware, and perhaps bodies, held somewhere in sec->ret, then there must be some organization controlling it. And >the job of that organization would be the job that reportedly >has been assigned to this group called 'MJ-12.' I would say >that MJ-12 by any other name is still MJ-12. There is some con->trol group out there hanging on to the hardware, soaking up >information from the outside and not letting any information >get back out." ________________________________________________________________

--end of file highlights-- from UFOs Tonite! on CRN

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