Filename: Par-Adv3.Reb
Type : Rebuttal/Reply
Author : Paranet Information Service - Michael Corbin
Date : 08/20/92
Desc. : Response/Rebuttal to Phoenix Project

Note : See also; PAR-ADVx.ZIP

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On 6 August 1992, ParaNet Information Service posted a preliminary
statement on our investigation into an organization known as the
Phoenix Project, which had recently released "investigative reports"
entitled "The Dulce Report", "The K-2 Report", and "The Ultimate
Secret". In our statement we pointed out some apparent problems with
all three Phoenix Project reports, as well as some suspicious aspects
of the Project's organization itself. In our conclusion, we issued a
warning not to take the Phoenix Project reports at face value, pending
further investigation.

On 10 August 1992, Jack Mathias of the Phoenix Project responded in a
long, rambling message posted to a number of bulletin boards and news
groups. Unfortunately, rather than dealing with the substantive issues
raised in our previous postings regarding the project and its
publications, Mr. Mathias's statement consisted mostly of ad-hominem
attacks impugning the motives, integrity, and competence of ParaNet's
officers and investigators. Here is some typical language excerpted
from the Phoenix Project statement:

" ... you blew it ..."
" ... a snap judgement without examining the evidence ..."
" ... your spontaneous and instant negative reaction ..."
" ... your attitude problem ..."
" ... you abused your position of trust and responsibility ..."
" ... inexcusable ... a new record for prejudice ..."
" ... you've just won the Golden Fleece Award ..."
" ... outstanding ineptness ..."
" ... amateur sleuthing ..."
" ... self-centered ..."
" ... lacking any real expertise ..."
" ... seated upon your starry throne ..."
" ... elected yourself to be the final arbiter of the truth ..."
" ... Judge, Jury, and Executioner ..."
" ... Kangaroo Court Proceeding of your own fashioning ..."
" ... arm-chair expertise ..."
" ... laughable ..."

Following paragraph after paragraph of this kind of personal invective,
Mr. Mathias then suggests that:

PP> In our opinion, the public deserves the truth regarding the real
PP> story of UFO's, government involvement and the Alien threat. That
PP> should be our objective. ... Perhaps you'll agree that, that
PP> objective is more productive than entertaining the public via the
PP> BBS links with a side-show of petty squabbles and bickering between
PP> individuals and organizations.

This is a noble sentiment, and one which we at ParaNet wholeheartedly
agree with. Hopefully in the future the Phoenix Project's
representatives will take some of their own advice and try to keep the
rhetoric down to a more civilized level.

Having said that, let's look at the actual issues raised by this latest
salvo from the Phoenix Project, and see how they stack up.

PP> Let us review the facts. You reacted by issuing a public warning to
PP> the members of ParaNet, which was also widely distributed via other
PP> BBS's nation-wide. That warning contained language which implied
PP> the information, and the source, were highly suspect. Thus, single-
PP> handedly, you created a strong impression throughout the UFO
PP> community, that our information was false. Many sincere people,
PP> trusting your qualifications, accepted your warning.

True.

PP> You took it upon yourself to make a snap judgement without
PP> examining the evidence.

False. We did not arrive at our conclusion single-handedly or
instantaneously. Our analysis and the resulting warning were the
products of considerable discussion among ParaNet's researchers and
subscribers. They were also labeled as tentative, pending further
investigation.

PP> In your message, you mention that you wrote to the Phoenix Project,
PP> after the fact and your preliminary judgement, requesting further
PP> information. You made the same comment in other BBS messages. You
PP> state that we did not respond to your request. You also imply, by
PP> insinuation, that this is a mark against us and a further
PP> indication that we are suspect. ... To date we have not received
PP> your letter of inquiry. Apparently, of all the mail we receive,
PP> your letter is the only one that has gone astray. We can only
PP> conclude that is was either lost in the mail or you didn't mail it.
PP> Did it ever occur to you to mail us a second request, when you did
PP> not receive a response to your first inquiry?

The letter was followed up with electronic mail to the Project's
spokesman, Jack Mathias. The request for information was repeated
through that channel. The request was refused.

PP> But, this was not the end of your attitude problem regarding the
PP> Phoenix Project. You did the same thing, again, issuing warnings,
PP> etc., with our release of the K-2 and the Ultimate Secret Reports.
PP> And, again, you had not seen or examined the supporting documents
PP> at the time you issued those warnings to ParaNet and the public.

We have already stated our reasons for suspecting the "K-2" and
"Ultimate Secret" reports. As with the "Dulce" report, our suspicions
went to the core of the entire concept and execution of both reports;
consequently, it seemed unlikely that the "supporting documents" would
make much difference. Our judgement in this matter was borne out when
we received the "supporting documents" from another source. We were not
impressed.

PP> Would we be out of line in concluding that your mind was already
PP> made-up?

Yes, that would be out of line, since our minds were not and in fact
are not yet entirely made up. Our warnings were tentative, and in our
view totally justified. So far we have not been provided with any
evidence to the contrary. If such evidence is provided, we will not
only change our minds but say so publicly.

PP> Fortunately, for the UFO Movement, other investigators and
PP> researchers don't share your opinion.

That's not the feedback we've been getting.

PP> You state in your initial message that "much of the information in
PP> the Dulce Report about Dulce and the Archuleta Mesa contradicts
PP> information already provided to ParaNet by other capable
PP> investigators." What information? Who provided it? How did you
PP> determine its validity?

Our information consists of the testimony of ParaNet investigators and
others who have been in Dulce and on the Mesa. Their experiences were
very different from what you describe, and it is difficult to reconcile
your claims with the findings of our own people.

PP> We formally request access to that information. We'd like to
PP> examine it ourselves. Can we obtain copies of "that" information?

Our investigation continues, and the information will be made public
when it is complete At that time we will be glad to provide you with a
complimentary copy of our report.

PP> Now, let us get to the main thrust of your message - your
PP> investigation to reveal the personnel of the Phoenix Project.
PP>
PP> [several paragraphs of meaningless abuse deleted] > What, if
PP> anything, is the Phoenix Project guilty of? Is it the fact that we
PP> dared to question and investigate two of the sacred cows of UFO-dom
PP> namely the ones you mentioned, i.e., "underground alien bases, and
PP> the cluster of government projects referred to collectively as
PP> Operation Majestic Twelve?"

No. ParaNet has long questioned both of those sacred cows. To this
point we have seen no acceptable proof for the existence of any
underground alien base near Dulce, nor have we seen adequate proof for
the existence of "Operation Majestic Twelve". We have publicly stated
as much on many occasions.

PP> According to our sources within the intelligence community, the
PP> Dulce Scam, perpetrated by the disinformation specialists of MAJI,
PP> better known to you as Majestic Twelve with help from the CIA and
PP> NSA, is considered one of their most brilliant success stories.

But, of course, these "sources" cannot be named, and all we have to go
on is your word that they even exist. And, unfortunately, you are
making a concerted effort to keep anyone from knowing who *you* are,
either. Anonymous stories relayed by anonymous story tellers. Sorry,
but that's not "evidence".

PP> We sent in experienced investigators, not amateurs, to check out
PP> the alleged Dulce Base. Those people knew what to look for, how to
PP> look for it, how to get answers, and are not easily mislead.

We have no evidence for this except your say-so.

PP> If you do not agree with our findings, get off your posterior, go
PP> to Dulce, and check it out for yourself.

We have.

In fact, we invite anybody to do the same thing. We're sure you'll
find exactly what we did ...

We didn't.

You imply that you're good at asking questions -- how are you at
answering them? We have a few questions ... Would you mind sharing
with all of us, everyone on the BBS's and the public, what hard
evidence you have that, without question, supports the presence and
validity of the Dulce Base.

Would you mind sharing what hard evidence you have that we ever said
anything of the kind? We have never said anything in support of the
presence of a secret alien base at Dulce. In point of fact, we consider
it extremely unlikely that any such base exists--at Dulce or anywhere
else. That's one of the reasons we have so much trouble with your "K-2"
report, which purports to document the existence of just such a base in
California.

Unless you have irrefutable evidence to present, made available for
public scrutiny and evaluation, which invalidates the findings of
the Phoenix Project regarding Dulce, K-2, or the Ultimate Secret,
or our future reports, back off. Either put-up or shut-up. In other
words, get off our back.

All right, challenge accepted. Let's start with this statement from
your "Ultimate Secret" report:

According to eye-witness testimony, the CIA agent in charge of this
covert operation, wearing the uniform of an AF Colonel, was William
C. Cooper. ... This witness testifies that this is the same William
C. Cooper, who has been prominent since 1988 in the civilian UFO
movement.

Is this "William C. Cooper" supposed to be the famous Bill Cooper we
have all come to know so well? Apparently so. Unfortunately, in his own
published documents Bill Cooper gives his full name as "Milton William
Cooper", not "William C. Cooper". Either Cooper doesn't know his own
name, or the Phoenix Project's "eye witness" doesn't know what he's
talking about.

And while we're on the subject of Bill Cooper, it is instructive to
compare some of the text of the Phoenix Project's "Ultimate Secret"
document with some of Bill Cooper's material on the same subject.
Cooper writes in his "Operation Majority--Final Release":

BC> [Project Grudge] was financed by CIA confidential
BC> funds (nonappropriated)
BC> and money from the illicit drug trade ...
BC> The purpose of Project Grudge
BC> was to collect all scientific, technological, medical and
BC> intelligence information from UFO/IAC sightings and
BC> contacts with alien life forms. This orderly file of
BC> collected information has been used to advance the United
BC> States Space Program.

Now look at the corresponding paragraph of the Phoenix Project's
"Ultimate Secret" report:

PP> Project Aquarius was funded by CIA confidential
PP> funds (non-appropriated) ...
PP> The purpose of Project Aquarius
PP> was to collect all scientific, technological, medical and
PP> intelligence information from UFO/IAC sightings and
PP> contacts with alien lifeforms. This orderly file of
PP> collected information has been used to advance the United
PP> States' Space Program and provided the data needed to
PP> develop present stealth technology.

You don't have to be an intelligence agent to see that these two
passages are virtually identical in both content and phrasing. Since
Cooper's statement is dated 10 January 1989, more than half a year
before the "Ultimate Secret" report's "origination" date of 4 August
1989, we seem to be left with three possibilities: (1) Cooper was
somehow privy to the Phoenix Project's investigative results even
before they were first put to paper; or, (2) the Phoenix Project
plagiarized Cooper's writings; or (3) the Phoenix Project's own
investigations drew on the same tainted and discredited sources as
Cooper apparently did in compiling his own materials. Whichever one you
pick, it's not a pretty picture.

But it gets worse:

PP> The basic information revealing the existence of Operation
PP> Majestic-12, the crashed UFOs, alien beings, and their secret bases
PP> within the United States, was obtained through the Freedom of
PP> Information Act from the files of the CIA, NSA, FBI, State
PP> Department, the U.S. Air Force.

This is utter nonsense, as any perusal of published FOIA documents on
UFOs would quickly reveal. FOIA requests have forced the government to
disgorge many hundreds of pages of UFO documents over the years, but
they provide little if any support for the existence of Operation
Majestic Twelve, crashed saucers, alien beings, or secret bases. If the
Phoenix Project is relying on already published documents as their
source for this claim (e.g., "The UFO Cover-UP" by Lawrence Fawcett and
Barry Greenwood, or "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good), then clearly
they have not examined them very carefully. On the other hand, if the
project really does have such explosive FOIA documents in its
possession, let's see them; their publication would do more to
establish the project's credibility than anything else it could
possibly do short of producing a live alien.

PP> PROJECT GRUDGE: This project was originally established in 1953, by
PP> order of President Eisenhower and is under the control of the CIA,
PP> NSA, and MAJI. Project Grudge went underground and another project,
PP> Project Sign, was established as a cover operation. In 1960, the
PP> Project's name was changed from Project SIGN to Project Bluebook.

This is demonstrably and totally wrong. Project Sign was established
first, in 1947, and it was under the control of the Air Force, not the
CIA. The name was changed to Project Grudge in 1949, and to Blue Book
in 1952-- not 1960. (For details, see "The Report on Unidentified
Flying Objects" by Edward J. Ruppelt, who headed the project from 1951
to 1953.) The exact dates slide around a little bit depending on
whether you're talking about when the decision was made, when the order
was signed, or when the order became effective; but the differences are
on the order of months, not decades! How could the Phoenix Project's
experienced intelligence agents make so many ludicrous errors in a
single paragraph?

In fact, this whole business was such an embarrassing mess that the
Phoenix Project issued a "correction" document to try to straighten it
out. But, ironically, the correction is also wrong--just less obviously
so.

We could go on, but I think you get the point. The "Ultimate Secret"
report is, at best, a rehash of other people's garbage. At worst, it is
a deliberate effort to confuse and disinform.

PP> We actively encourage other serious investigators to use the
PP> information we have provided as a basis for conducting their own
PP> inquiry and to carry-on our effort. Can you, Mr. Corbin, or
PP> ParaNet, or Mufon, make the same claim. Or, is it true that the
PP> results of critical investigations are held sacred by the elite
PP> leadership of these organizations, and are not shared with the
PP> member's of their organizations or the public?

We can't speak for other organizations, but in the case of ParaNet we
have always made our results public as soon as our investigations are
complete.

PP> In your message, you insinuate that because of our past military
PP> and intelligence backgrounds, our area of expertise so-to-speak,
PP> that the motives of the Phoenix Project are suspect. You further
PP> insinuate that we are possibly government operatives attempting to
PP> send serious researchers off on a variety of wild goose chases.

Given the prior history of government disinformation in ufology, most
of it purveyed by active or former intelligence agents and their
victims, anyone who (1) purports to have a military intelligence
background, (2) refuses to divulge their identity, and (3) propagates
known disinformation as reliable intelligence (whether deliberately or
not) should expect his motives to be considered suspect until proven
otherwise. It is extremely naive of you to think it would happen any
other way.

PP> If anyone needed assurance that the truth regarding UFO's will
PP> remain a deep, dark, secret -- they can rest secure in the
PP> knowledge that you, are on the job. There are any number of
PP> government agencies who would welcome you with open arms. Expect
PP> some offers.

Sorry, none so far. We'll let you know if we get any.

PP> We are sure that the honest and sincere members of ParaNet and
PP> other UFO investigative organizations (and there are many) must be
PP> seriously considering whether your qualifications, fitness and
PP> investigative ability warrant your continuance in a position of
PP> leadership within what used to be a respected research
PP> organization.

Exactly the opposite, actually. Most of our people are grateful for the
warning, and are coming to the same conclusions as we did.

PP> Instead of making an honest attempt to validate or disprove our
PP> findings regarding the subjects mentioned -- missing the point
PP> completely, you chose to become obsessed with determining the
PP> identity of Phoenix Project personnel. For what reason? Do you
PP> intend to judge the validity of the information based on the
PP> credentials of those providing it? Some people would interpret that
PP> as putting the cart before the horse.

And some people would interpret it as a determination not to fall prey
to the same fate as far too many others in this field, who trusted
strangers too easily and ended up wasting years chasing wild geese--or
worse.

PP> Explain to us how or why the credentials of our investigators, or
PP> their identity, have any bearing on the validity of the
PP> information. Either the information is true or it isn't. It's as
PP> simple as that, or does that simple fact escape you.

The credentials of your investigators have a strong bearing on whether
or not it is even worth the trouble to examine your "information".
Anybody can sit down for a few hours at a word processor and cook up
reams of tittilating "information" about almost any subject under the
sun. But unless there is good reason to think there might be something
to it, it's a fool's errand to try to chase it all down.

It's like this: If ordinary claims come from an anonymous source, they
may be assigned some measure of trust simply because they accord with
everyday experience. If extraordinary claims come from a reputable
source, they may be assigned some measure of trust simply because of
the proven track record of the person making the claims. But when
extraordinary claims originate from an anonymous source, they generally
are given no credence at all, because there is simply no reason to
believe they are true. Life is too short to chase every wild goose that
comes cackling along. There must be *some* reason--either in the
plausibility of the claim or the authority of the claimant--to think
it's worth the trouble. You have provided neither one.

PP> How can we, or others, be assured of your motives. One does not
PP> need a brilliant mind to envision a scenario where the information
PP> the Phoenix Project has released is discredited because of an act
PP> of character assignation.

Please explain what "character assignation" is, and then maybe we can
envision the scenario you have in mind.

PP> Suppose we asked these questions -- would you be prepared to
PP> respond to them? Who are you? What are your credentials? Who are
PP> those holding positions of leadership in ParaNet? What are their
PP> qualifications and credentials? How do we know that you or ParaNet
PP> are not controlled by government operatives? What qualifications
PP> are required to hold a position of leadership within ParaNet?

There has never been any secret about what ParaNet is or who it
consists of. Lists of ParaNet nodes and their sysops have been posted
to the net on several occasions. Anyone who wants to follow the ParaNet
BBS echoes can log in to a local ParaNet node, receive the echo digests
over the net, or download them from our FTP archives. All postings are
signed with the user name and node ID of the originator. All articles
in Continuum, ParaNet's quarterly magazine, are signed by the authors.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but neither our personnel nor our purposes
are in any way secret or mysterious.

PP> We were unaware that anyone had ever attempted to create a
PP> corporation in Nevada calling itself the Phoenix Project. Due to
PP> the nature of our work, and to protect the identity of our
PP> personnel it would be a foolish endeavor. We never made an attempt
PP> to incorporate our organization in any State.

The incorporation issue originally came up because we were trying to
track down your trademark registration. We have been unable to find any
such registration, yet at the beginning of each of your reports you
explicitly state that "all publications of the "Phoenix Project" bear
the Project's Logo (a registered trade-mark)." Is that a lie? It
certainly seems that a trademark registration of the project logo would
be almost as much of a threat to "the identity of your personnel" as
incorporation would be.

PP> You suggest a possible link between our organization and America
PP> West. Sorry about that, but you're dead wrong. It has come to us
PP> from several sources that we're not on their list of favorite
PP> people. We will take this opportunity to categorically deny that we
PP> have any affiliation with America West, their publication the
PP> "Phoenix Liberator," or any other publication they provide.
PP>
PP> Do not expect us to respond to the other coincidences,
PP> suppositions, insinuations or innuendoes contained in your message.

Why? Perhaps because there are other "insinuations" that cannot be
truthfully denied? As a matter of fact, we now have solid confirmation
of another one of our "insinuations"--i.e., the fact that the Richard
Miller who owns Advent Publishing is indeed the same Richard Miller who
used to channel "Hatonn". That confirmation came from none other than
Mr. Miller himself. So I guess we're not doing too badly.

In consideration of your explicit denials of any ties to America West,
and in view of the additional information provided privately by Mr.
Miller, we withdraw our previous suggestion of possible connections
between the Phoenix Project and the America West/Phoenix Liberator
operation. As we stated before, those suggestions were tentative
pending further investigation, and further investigation has not
uncovered any additional evidence to support them. Unfortunately, this
is the kind of burden that the Phoenix Project inevitably took on when
it chose to publicly portray itself as a clandestine organization.

PP> Since you brought up America West and The "Phoenix Liberator," why
PP> not turn your investigative abilities loose on their organization.
PP> Just suppose that Milton Cooper is, quietly, linked to their
PP> organization. That should intrigue you.

It does, if true. We also find it intriguing that you are, apparently,
using Cooper's material without attributing it to him--thereby lending
it credibility when there is every indication that it is completely
bogus.

PP> Equally intriguing, is where their funding comes from - not the
PP> obvious subscription income - the covert funding. Or, how about the
PP> busy and numerous, off premise, writers that prepare the volumes of
PP> "Hatonn" material, and their use of high-speed modems to provide
PP> the copy for each weekly issue of the "Phoenix Liberator" and the
PP> dozens of books they produce. In our supposition, we're talking
PP> about a big-time operation. You might also check out their printing
PP> facilities, distribution centers, and world-wide circulation.
PP> Equally fascinating is their sudden rise, in a few short years, to
PP> the top of the New Age Movement. You might even think to ask
PP> yourself, why the New Age Movement? What possible connection is
PP> there with covert government UFO activities, or a New World Order,
PP> with the New Age Movement? The answer to that might be revealed, if
PP> you dig deep enough, and discover high-speed modem links between
PP> their headquarters and certain organizations located at Langley and
PP> Ft. Meade. Yes, if you really dig, you might uncover all kinds of
PP> interesting things about America West.

Thanks for the tip.

PP> As to your effort in trying to identify staff personnel of the
PP> Phoenix Project -- good luck. However, we do have to admit that you
PP> may get lucky and hit on a couple of them. However, since there are
PP> many, it is doubtful you will ever get beyond that point.

Our only interest in the personnel of the Phoenix Project is to
determine whether the Project has a hidden agenda, and whether it is
covertly linked to other organizations whose agendas are known. That
interest was made necessary by the Project's clandestine nature and
consequent lack of public accountability. You brought it on yourselves,
and your continuing hostility and evasiveness suggest that we were not
entirely mistaken in our suspicions.

Our investigation continues. We'll let you know what we find out.

Michael Corbin
Director
ParaNet Information Service


Jim Singleton
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23
http://ricksbbs.synchro.net:8080
---
þ Synchronet þ Rick's BBS telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23