PART 1


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Below is the transcript of the Billy Goodman Happening Show as it aired
on December 20, 1989. Robert Lazar was the guest of Billy Goodman.

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12/20/89
Billy Goodman

GOODMAN: What exactly does Area S-4 mean?

LAZAR: I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site" 4......
that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know.
There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The nuc-
lear test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites" or
"areas" 1 to 29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a nuclear
reactor. There's an S-4 just south of the Tonopah test range.
And there's an S-4....the one that I worked at....just south of
Groom Lake.

GOODMAN: Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government scientist, saw
not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And he's tell-
ing the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know that
in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time you were
here, you never really told us what are their plans with these
flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have flying saucers
at this point?

LAZAR: I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to back-
engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be dupli-
cated using earthly materials and technology.

606: Is it possible these machines travel in time back and forth?

LAZAR: It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create any artifi-
cial gravitational field, you technically move in your own time.
So technically, you do slip forward when you create your own
intense gravitational field.

606: BACK in time too?

LAZAR: Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would do that,
I don't know off the top of my head.

606: So that could be used like a time machine, right?

LAZAR: Essentially yeah, that is.....

606: For time travel?

LAZAR: ...that is possible.

606: Wow! That's really something!

LAZAR: Yeah, that's science-fiction-like.

FRITZ, Westlake, California:
Billy, it is sizzling again on the West Coast. Bob Lazar, thank
you very much for coming on again. You must come on. This has
got to go nationwide. The cat is out of the bag. I'm sure
those little gods in S-54 are listening in, and believe me, it's
your best security to come on. If anything happens to you,
we're all behind you, Bob Lazar....everybody. This is like a
snowball going down the hill and will become an avalanche, and
ignorance will be wiped out. We've got to know the truth....for
once and forever. They are here! Let's find out why they are
here and who they are and what their purpose is.

LAZAR: Well thank you!

FRITZ: Okay Bob, we're all behind you. Billy, keep that show going!
It's the Number One show in America in talk shows.

GOODMAN: Well, thank you very much Fritz. He did explain to you why we
have flying saucers, right?

FRITZ: Well, I know why they are here. The general public has to
become aware; they're just wakening up. It's like a film being
lifted from their eyes. I mean, they've been laughing for forty
years!

GOODMAN: Wait a minute Fritz. You know why they're here? Why are they
here, Fritz?

FRITZ: Well, first of all, it's a conditioning process.

GOODMAN: Okay, you got it.

FRITZ: We are in a quarantine because we are so ignorant; our ignorance
keeps us from meeting them. Big brother reaches out the hand
and says, "Come over, little brother, let's have the cosmic
connection," but we have to become a world together....earth-
lings. We are about 170 nations....170 languages; we have to
come together. When we have a spokesman, then we will meet on
equal ground.

TIM from Pasadena:
When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work? How
does it seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved?

LAZAR: The hatch....or whatever it was....was completely removed; there
was just an opening in the side of the craft.

TIM: Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a lip?

LAZAR: I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in looking
inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing
mechanism or any other thing around it.

TIM: When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you looked
into one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting.

LAZAR: Yeah, exactly.

TIM: Now, was that the only one you looked into?

LAZAR: No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I just
saw from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them.

TIM: And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"?

LAZAR: Yes, exactly.

TIM: And that's the only one you saw fly as well?

LAZAR: Right.

TIM: What was your work there?

LAZAR: Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer the pro-
pulsion and power system.

TIM: So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the craft
itself?

LAZAR: No, not at all.

TIM: But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of stuff you
were learning about?

LAZAR: Right.

GOODMAN: What is gravity?

LAZAR: Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like elec-
tromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't
know a good way to describe gravity.

GOODMAN: Einstein and other scientists really don't have an answer for
what gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really understand
it totally, do they?

LAZAR: No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand
ANYTHING about gravity.

GOODMAN: Why don't we just float away ourselves? What keeps us down on
the planet?

LAZAR: That is the attractive force of gravity.

GOODMAN: Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does it?

LAZAR: No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on an
atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the atoms
individually together.

GOODMAN: Is your actual title government scientist or physicist?

LAZAR: You could use either one.

GOODMAN: You are no longer a government scientist or physicist, right?

LAZAR: Not employed by the government.

GOODMAN: But you are continuing in the scientific field. What do you do?

LAZAR: I design and build advanced radiation detection equipment, main-
ly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in detecting
plutonium for national laboratories.

LEE SAMUELS:
How long has that craft been on this earth?

LAZAR: I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's been down
at S-4.

SAMUELS: Do you know where it originally landed?

LAZAR: No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep me in
as to....

SAMUELS: It could have been here for years?

LAZAR: Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from somewhere
else, too.

SAMUELS: Did you see just one craft or a number of craft?

LAZAR: I saw a number of them.

SAMUELS: Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from, or more
they towed in, or whatever?

LAZAR: I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation
between everyone.

SAMUELS: Were you by yourself when you were investigating the craft?

LAZAR: Walking by myself. There were security people around me, but
when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at the
gravity amplifiers, I got away from them. But there was no one
right next to me the whole time.

SAMUELS: Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive?

LAZAR: Nothing I could put my finger on.

SAMUELS: Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that sector?

LAZAR: Nothing I could put my finger on.

SAMUELS: Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens? Is it like a
Star Trek craft? What kind of craft is it?

LAZAR: No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of things were
removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't know what
they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground, so I don't
know what was removed. But it doesn't look like it had anything
like sleeping quarters or anything like that.

SAMUELS: Any writing you could detect or any language on the walls?

LAZAR: No.

SAMUELS: Any panels, like a dashboard on a car?

LAZAR: Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things....there was more
than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was
removed.

SAMUELS: Were these craft all from the same source? Were they all
identical?

LAZAR: No. Each craft was completely different in physical appearance.
I didn't get to look in depth at the other craft, but I only
fooled around with one.

SAMUELS: I applaud your courage.

CALLER (referring to a certain book):
Have you heard of him?

LAZAR: I think I thumbed through that book once. I think John Lear....

CALLER: What the heck is an energy grid on our planet?

LAZAR: I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in that book.
It's a grid outlined over the entire globe, and at each inter-
section there's an energy vortex of some kind. I'd rather not
comment since I don't buy it.

CALLER: On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a folding
over. What did you mean by that?

LAZAR: Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially or nat-
urally, distorts time and space.

CALLER: I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory of rela-
tivity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from matter. Where
does it come from if it doesn't come from matter?

LAZAR: That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from matter.
But it can be extracted by other means, too. I really don't
understand that [question].

TOM from Los Angeles:
How can UFOs be kept secret for 40 years?

LAZAR: I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the answer
that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep secret
because of the subject matter.

TOM: Is that because it's tied in with a lot of parapsychology-
psychic-type stuff....National Enquirer?

LAZAR: Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so available to
the public via the tabloids and things like that that any true
information getting out is assumed to originate from those
sources.

TOM: Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought science down to
the general public. What about getting him involved in this
somehow?

LAZAR: I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him.

TOM: He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers.

LAZAR: He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should require.
It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone that
hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for them-
selves. That's the way any scientist is going to look at it.

TOM: How far is Zeta Reticuli?

LAZAR: I think it's around 32 light years.

TOM: Do these ships travel faster than light?

LAZAR: It's an irrelevant question because they get around it because
they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're distort-
ing time and space, there's no true time reference. And since
velocity is distance over time, when you begin to fool around
with time, you really can't state a true velocity.

TOM: Re the SETI program....the search for radio signals....couldn't
some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed at the places
where aliens supposedly come from?

LAZAR: RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't utilized;
it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't
going to pick up anything of that sort.

GOODMAN: The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by anyone want-
ing you to see it, right? You were walking with security and
you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before?

LAZAR: It may have been planned by them. I had no advance warning of
it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time, and
one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked...
through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before....
walked directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it, and
they said, "Just keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and it
was just like that.

Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room.

GOODMAN: You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw it?

LAZAR: Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and then we
went to work on some of the work we were assigned to.

GOODMAN: What was some of the work that you actually did? What did you
actually do at S-4? When you had an assignment, what would it
have been, for example?

LAZAR: Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and being
brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of the
hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor itself:
being shown how it operated, giving demonstrations, and things
of that sort.

GOODMAN: There was practically no communication with your fellow workers?

LAZAR: Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were on the
buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the
person you communicated with, and there was really no cross-talk
between groups.

GOODMAN: When you went there for the initial interview, you said at the
time they actually had a gun at your head....

LAZAR: No, that was at the security briefing.

GOODMAN: Security, wherever that may be....the initial interview when you
went to work at S-4 I'm talking about, that's not when the gun
was at your head?

LAZAR: No.

GOODMAN: When you went there, what was your understanding about what you
were going to be doing?

LAZAR: Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were talking about
some sort of gravitational propulsion system.

GOODMAN: Were you excited about that?

LAZAR: Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about that
because it was something that I was interested in, something
they KNEW I was interested in, and that was the hint that I got.

GOODMAN: And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told you were
going to do actually happen?

LAZAR: Yeah.

GOODMAN: For what period of time?

[GOODMAN goes right into NEXT question.]
How long were you actually there before you let people know what
was going on up there? How many months or days or whatever?

LAZAR: Probably a couple of months.

GOODMAN: Every time you went there you literally had to fly up, land at
Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows.....

LAZAR: Right.

GOODMAN: ....and no communication on the bus. What were you thinking as
a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it.

LAZAR: I'm not that young.

GOODMAN: Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway, what
were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes
with the territory and I'm just going to go along with this?

LAZAR: Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more just to
be involved with the project.

GOODMAN: Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part of what
was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it?

LAZAR: Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they had dealt
out.

GOODMAN: Can you picture it? He's in his thirties, sitting on a bus, and
accepting the fact, OK, I'm going to work this morning, not
talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight ahead,
blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt roads...
Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything about the
dirt roads?

LAZAR: It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there are
dirt, in fact almost all are.

MARK in Los Angeles:
Previously, you described the central column of the propulsion
device as being a wave guide. There was a disk toward the
bottom of this thing down near the anti-matter generator that
spins. What is that disk made of.....

LAZAR: There's no spinning disk.

MARK: What is the disk made of? Is it a capacitor?

LAZAR: A disk? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out and sits
on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the reactor
is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all connected
together.

MARK: Is that plate a capacitor?

LAZAR: No.

MARK: Well, what is it made of?

LAZAR: Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't know what
kind; it's [electric-].....

MARK: Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was?

LAZAR: Not to my knowledge.

MARK: I understand that part of the propulsion system involves a very
large capacitor....which is usually the entire lower surface of
the disk....that can make use of something along the lines of
the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what the components of
the dielectric material in that capacitor are?

LAZAR: Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the capacitor,
then the dielectric material would be the air....if you're going
to look at the earth as another plate of the capacitor. But as
far as the capacitor being integral to the actual craft itself,
no, I found no evidence of that.

MARK: I understand there's an antenna section in this device; what is
the resonant frequency that that operates at?

LAZAR: The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know, but I
don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it.

MARK: Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz?

LAZAR: I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency.

MARK: Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz?

LAZAR: I really don't remember.

MARK: When you first started to go public and were meeting with people
at John Lear's house, I understand that there were a number of
witnesses at those first meetings. One of them claims that you
did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial while working
inside one of those saucers, trying to back-engineer the propul-
sion system, and that you had been looking out through a doorway
or through a porthole in the side of the device and that you had
actually seen an extraterrestrial walking around on the outside
of one of those devices.

LAZAR: Devices meaning disks?

MARK: Yes.

LAZAR: No.

MARK: So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial at S-4.

LAZAR: I really don't want to get into that.

MARK: The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming that
you have.

LAZAR: Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never did look
and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and the reason
I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw something once
...walking at a glance....and that's all there is to it. And I
won't stand on that fact because it was just a fleeting glimpse;
when I came back, whatever was there was gone; it could have
been a million things.

MARK: I have a contact that claims that you were responsible for
determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary to oper-
ate an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's magnetic
field. Is that true?

LAZAR: No, it's the exact opposite.

CALLER: Why are you going public? There's obviously a lot of other
staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty.

LAZAR: The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left the pro-
gram I became concerned about what happens now. I made a rou-
tine request for my birth certificate, which I needed just for
I.D. purposes, and I was told that it doesn't exist, I wasn't
even born at that hospital. I sat on that for about a week and
just wondered, and then I began to inquire at previous jobs and
also at other schools, and that information was also gone. And
I got the idea that soon someone was going to disappear, so
that's when I contacted the TV station and essentially let
everything out.

CALLER: But you left the program under very amicable circumstances?

LAZAR: No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't want to
get into.

CALLER: Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment?

LAZAR: Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time.

CALLER: Less so now?

LAZAR: Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of your
mind......

CALLER: If anything would happen to you now, that would cause such an
uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go
anywhere near you.

LAZAR: Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if they're
following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.

CALLER: Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that were
operational?

LAZAR: I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I was at
the area and then at extreme distance....about 15 miles, when I
brought some friends up to look at it.

CALLER: Using the technology that's being used, the craft are very
agile, aren't they?

LAZAR: Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel.

CALLER: In one direction at a time?

LAZAR: No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed mode and
a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them; they
had a specific name for them.

CALLER: What was the size of the staff working on the project?

LAZAR: 22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in. How
extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know.

CALLER: I understand you were frustrated at the size of the staff.
You thought it should have been larger?

LAZAR: Oh yeah! Much!

CALLER: More could have been learned about the program more quickly?

LAZAR: Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon!

CALLER: Do you think we understand enough about the alien propulsion
technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology....
or are we even close? Do we know what's going on?

LAZAR: Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is substituting
earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around that.

CALLER: How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the vehicles?

LAZAR: Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy
element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements....
and I'm sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered
elements in excess of atomic number 115....that the ATOMIC
gravity wave inside the atoms holding things together begins to
extend outside of the atomic structure itself, and it's this
wave that can be tapped off in quantity....small quantity,
actually. This wave can be amplified, contained, and used for a
useful purpose.

GOODMAN: Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants?

LAZAR: Not nuclear power plants; weapon......where they use plutonium.

GOODMAN: Like the latest flight above us now?

LAZAR: The Galileo?

GOODMAN: Yeah.

LAZAR: Yeah.

GOODMAN: Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar?

LAZAR: Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to detect....

CALLER: Are they flying these vehicles within our city areas at any
(#37) time?

LAZAR: I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple tests.
I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful with
them. I personally don't think they're whipping them around the
solar system because I don't know how profficient they are at
operating them.

CALLER: Do you read any UFO literature in book form?
(#37)
LAZAR: Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little tidbits
here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve into
reading.

CALLER: You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have you
(#37) read any of that information because you had mentioned that you
had seen some pictures?

LAZAR: Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly the....
whatever that book's called....Contact From the Plaeides or
something....but it's essentially a picture book; there's
really no text in it. One of the craft in there looks striking-
ly similar to the one I call the Sport Model.

CALLER: What did you think of that similarity? Did that puzzle you?
(#37)
LAZAR: Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the Billy
Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that
I worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they had
a picture of a grassy field with three round indents in the
ground. Now that would coincide with the three gravity ampli-
fiers in the bottom of the craft and the imprint that they do
make, so that kind of makes me believe that that really did
occur.

CALLER: You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of Bill
(#37) Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture was concerned?

LAZAR: I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is. John Lear
has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific story. I do
agree with both of them in the fact that, yeah, there's alien
craft here and so on and so forth. John Lear thinks they're
here to use us for food. I don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's
story. But the little intricate parts here and there....I just
haven't seen any evidence MYSELF of it. I don't know what these
gentlemen have found out on their own.

CALLER: From everything you know about it, do you believe there is a
(#37) possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe?

LAZAR: Oh sure.

GOODMAN: How would you describe this picture?

LAZAR: It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation of four
and a formation of two flying saucers.

GOODMAN: That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond Inn. No
name, no nothing. Just a note:

"This picture was taken from the 29-1/2-mile marker on the day
that I had the best time of my life, thanks to you, Billy Good-
man Happening."

That's all.

LAZAR: There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple of them;
that's really interesting.

GOODMAN: That is right up there where people have gone. Bob mentioned
the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's a
DAYTIME shot."

Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face!

LAZAR: It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree. Very
interesting. They're glowing the color that the crafts glow.

GOODMAN: I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you very, very,
very much, because that is absolute, positive proof that they
are up there in the sky having a good time.

Do you think that they're flown by alien beings, or are WE....
the military....doing it?


LAZAR: I think that the ones that we're testing.......the one that I
was involved in I think is being flown by the military. What-
ever else is going on I don't know.

Was that picture taken over Area 51?

GOODMAN: That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak?

LAZAR: Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was told
that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean, that's
interesting.

GOODMAN: You described, when you went inside one of these little puppies,
that there were very, very small seats, almost like a kinder-
garten type.

LAZAR: Right. Exactly.

GOODMAN: So we have to have some small guys doing it....jockeys or some-
thing?

LAZAR: No,no. You could squeeze into it.

PAUL: Do these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main craft?

LAZAR: I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two.

PAUL: In most instances, people speak of them joining up with another
craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could the models
you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in that respect?

LAZAR: I really don't know.

PAUL: They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people?

LAZAR: No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right in the
mid-30, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far as carry-
ing a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's not a
whole lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger craft
that they join with, but I didn't see any.

PAUL: Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4?

LAZAR: That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really don't
know.

PAUL: It would be something to explain how in the hell we got more
engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an
agreement or somebody helping us.

LAZAR: Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to be.

PAUL: Since they have released you and taken away your scientific
livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60 Minutes,
the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for
every dime you can get.

LAZAR: [laughs]

PAUL: You have a right to do that since they interrupted your career.
But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of
the scientific community, that can do some good with it.

They've been toying with it for years and nothing's come out of
it. We can't get anywhere. We've got to get it out of the
hands of these power-mongers.

LAZAR: I agree one hundred percent.

PAUL: I think that's why you took people up there in the first place.
You were tired of their games.

WESLEY CRUMB, Charleston, Illinois:
It's a great privilege to get a chance to speak with you. I
greatly admire your courage in coming forward. I saw a copy of
the KLAS program you did. When I first heard about you I ran up
about a $300 phone bill calling New York and Chicago, and every-
where. I got a rejection today from the Donahue show that they
don't want to do a program about you.

Did you go inside all nine spacecraft?

LAZAR: No, no, just one.

CRUMB: When you were inside the craft, did you see any indication that
either through markings on the controls or otherwise that these
ships were from a different place? Was there any writing on any
controls or anything?

LAZAR: No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see some
evidence of writing.

CRUMB: When you saw the slight demonstration that was performed for
you, were you the only person that was there that saw this
craft operate?

LAZAR: No, there were several people. I was standing right next to the
person who was in radio contact with the craft.

CRUMB: How long did this demonstration last?

LAZAR: It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid over to
the left, then back to the right, and set back down. It was a
very short duration.

CRUMB: But you never saw who was at the controls?

LAZAR: No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the hangar.
When I came out, it was already out of the hangar and sitting on
....well, sitting out away from the hangar some distance. So I
don't know how it was brought out, who brought it out, who got
in it. I can only guess.

CRUMB: Is the entire thing underground....all nine different hangars?

LAZAR: No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the side of
a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's kind of
inside the mountain.

CRUMB: Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being spent on
the space program by the administration is a waste of money, as
we already have these ships in our possession?

LAZAR: No, because look at all the technology that we did get out of
the space program.

CRUMB: Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on loan to
us? Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any time?

LAZAR: No, none of that was ever disclosed to me....anything about the
origin.

CRUMB: I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was shot at
recently. Is there any truth to that?

LAZAR: I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car.

CRUMB: It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in Yucaipa,
and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever since this news
broke.

I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer. They
might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob. The
Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go, but at
least it does have some national exposure.

BURT in Burbank:
You said there's more fuel than necessary at the Test Site?

LAZAR: Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's 500 pounds.

BURT: 500 pounds of Element 115?

LAZAR: Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's definitely an
abundance of fuel out there.

BURT: Could you quickly describe the underside of these ships?

LAZAR: No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only one craft. The
other ones were always sitting on the ground; I never saw it.
But the underside is essentially flat. Now, I never got direct-
ly under it to look. There might be some features down there,
but I really don't know.

BURT: The reason I ask is because you were talking about the three
distortions that can come down from the gravity engines to dis-
tort the grass.

Are you aware of any time distortion within the saucer itself
while they are running?

LAZAR: Yeah, there has to be.

BURT: What about SIZE distortion within the ship? I've heard reports
that people who have been in these that the inside seems much
larger than the outside would indicate.

LAZAR: I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen any evidence of
that.

BURT: You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes and the
control factors in there. Can you describe those modes and what
the ship looks like each time it is going through those modes?

LAZAR: The low-speed mode....and I REALLY wish I could remember what
they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember the frequency
of the wave....

The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs
around. And it's sitting on a weak gravitational field, sitting
on three gravity waves. And it just bounces around. And it can
focus the waves behind it and keep falling forward and hobble
around at low speed.

The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the field, and
the craft begins to lift, and it performs a ROLL maneuver: it
begins to turn, roll, begins to turn over. As it begins to
leave the earth's gravitational field, they point the bottom of
the craft at the DESTINATION. This is the second mode of
travel, where they converge the three gravity amplifiers....
FOCUS them....on a point that they want to go to. Then they
bring them up to full power, and this is where the tremendous
time-space distortion takes place, and that whips them right to
that point.

BURT: Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the craft itself?

LAZAR: The reactor, yeah.

BURT: About how large is this, and could you describe it?

LAZAR: The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches square; I
said diameter before but it is square. There's a half-sphere on
top where the gravity wave is tapped off of, but that's about
the size of it.

AMY: Are there subjects you won't talk about regarding what was going
on at Groom Lake at the project?

LAZAR: No, I don't think so.

AMY: Do you have future plans for more publicity?

LAZAR: There are several networks that are interested.

AMY: 60 Minutes?

LAZAR: That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything officially.

AMY: Would you do it?

LAZAR: Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure.

AMY: Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18?

LAZAR: Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out.

AMY: Do you remember any parallels to what you know now?

LAZAR: I don't remember enough about the movie.

AMY: The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper article about
you during the time that you were at Los Alamos. What paper was
that? When was it written?

LAZAR: The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that. I think I still
have a copy at home.

AMY: Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity in the area?

LAZAR: No.

AMY: The woman talked about on the show a few days ago....the child
and the two women [Cash/Landrum case?]....and they now have
cancer. How did that occur?

LAZAR: I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a really poor
attempt at us producing a craft....a nuclear-powered craft,
really dirty, spewing nuclear material all over the place. It
sounds something that we would make. It really rings human.

AMY: Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup? From your
research on the craft itself, can you tell if they are similar
to us....by the way it was designed?

LAZAR: Certainly smaller.

AMY: But there's nothing other than that?

LAZAR: Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining to what
they call the typical grey. I believe them to be that.

GOODMAN: It was interesting when you asked for your birth certificate,
and you could not locate it. And they told you that literally
you did not exist? They TOLD you this in so many words?

LAZAR: They said we just have no records here.

GOODMAN: And YOU felt that you didn't exist?

LAZAR: I felt that that's what they were trying to make happen.

GOODMAN: Are you familiar with that type of thing being done?

LAZAR: No, I never heard of it before. I guess other people have.

GOODMAN: Did you ever get your birth certificate?

LAZAR: Nope.

GOODMAN: What about diplomas and things of that nature? Was there any
record of any colleges you have attended?

LAZAR: George Knapp tracked down one, and they still had a record
there.

GOODMAN: All the rest are gone?

LAZAR: Yeah.

GOODMAN: Have you called the colleges yourself and asked for copies?

LAZAR: Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los Alamos, too, and
they said, no, you never worked here, and you know, I've been
there for years. You can present them with the information,
look, here's my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are
the people that I've worked with, here is the guy that I worked
for, this is the project I worked on, and all they say is no.
I mean it's ridiculous.

GOODMAN: And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure there are some
that probably are just working there; they don't know any diff-
erent. They are just checking the records and saying we don't
have anything.

LAZAR: Right. You can hear them when you call up. They are checking on
the computer. They will type in your name and it won't come up.
So that's probably all they do know.

GOODMAN: People should realize this....nowadays especially....you could
be pulled out....all of us could....and anything we've ever
done. If someone pulls your name out of a computer where you've
worked before or you've had some past, you don't exist because
the new person or a personnel director going in and checking....
you're not there. You have no record of that individual.

LAZAR: Right. It depends on the level that you look into it, too.
Like I said, George Knapp went out to Los Alamos, and that's
where he got the telephone directory and spoke to someone I
worked with out there, and so on.

GOODMAN: This mode of travel involved in moving these UFOs around: Can
you see that being a mode of travel for us in the future? You
said it only took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good to me
as far as being efficient. Do you think that it's possible that
we could be traveling like that in the future?

LAZAR: Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible in the
future.

GOODMAN: I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to be off
the ground in order to travel like this?

LAZAR: Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of slow-speed
travel.

GOODMAN: Something else we talked about off the air. We might as well
tell the people about it. Some strange things are going on in
your life. You mentioned about car doors being opened.
Describe what happened the other night when you and your.......
Shelley left the house and you came back and the doors were wide
open. What do you think about all this?

LAZAR: It's crazy! A friend of mine, Shelley, was over, and we went
out to a bar to have a, a, well, a buffet. We went out, locked
the door, checked everything, and we came back several hours
later, and all the doors were open. And nothing was disturbed
in the house; nothing was taken. In her car that was left in
the driveway, the seats were moved all the way back like someone
big sat in them.

I've gone with other friends to a health club that I go to. We
lock the doors and check them; in fact, I usually keep a gun in
the car and put my wallet on the dash. We've come out and the
doors have been not just unlocked but actually open....not even
the wallet taken or the gun. Certainly kids would not have done
THAT. It's just like someone wants me to know that they're
still there.

GOODMAN: The last time you were on the Happening, you revealed the
gentleman's name....

LAZAR: Dennis Mariano

GOODMAN: ...saying he was threatening you and was the biggest problem in
your life. Have you had any problems with him since then?

LAZAR: No, not recently, no.

GOODMAN: How would the anti-matter reactor act in a car?

LAZAR: I don't know if I'd use that in a car. But if you wanted to,
you could use it as a tremendous electrical power.

GOODMAN: Which goes back to the beginning of time: We were going to have
electric cars and were convinced we shouldn't have electric cars
because we were told we would have to plug them in along the
way.

It wouldn't be necessary....as they said years ago....to plug in
along the way to re-charge the batteries if we had something
inside to generate....

LAZAR: Right. Along the same lines, you could make a NUCLEAR-powered
car, too, running off plutonium.

GOODMAN: If we wanted to get involved with this anti-matter-reactor-type
or mode of travel, we'd have to have Element 115....

LAZAR: Right.

GOODMAN: ....which you had in your possession at one time.

LAZAR: Yeah, that's one of the things I got. And that was my ace-in-
the-hole.

GOODMAN: And they got it off you.

LAZAR: Yeah. We did get it......for people that saw the KLAS tape,
where George Knapp points and says, "It's stored in containers
similar to this one," well, that WAS one. And that's why we put
it on there. It was kind of a jab at them to say we got it.
That was the real ace-in-the-hole because if everyone came out
and jumped on it and said this is all garbage and everything,
you know, just to pop that out and say, go check this!

GOODMAN: Listen guys out there at Area S-4: I know you're listening
'cause we heard this recently. Why don't you get some of that
somehow to Bob.

Why would that be your ace-in-the-hole?

LAZAR: Because anyone can verify that it's an element that doesn't
exist.

GOODMAN: Boy, that would be wonderful if we could just get that. Any of
you Mercury Workers up there that want to get involved, and say
that you do want to get involved, that might be a great way to
help Bob's cause out and to prove his story, behind the story.

BILL from Las Vegas:
Someone previously called in and said that some of the Mercury
Workers had decided to get behind Lazar. Has Bob Lazar ever
heard anything in relation to that? Have any of the Mercury
Workers contacted him, and do any of them intend to go public
as you have done?

LAZAR: I don't know what the situation is with those guys, if they're
for real or not. I've got messages through people that someone
called once and said there were three of them and two of them
were captured down at S-4 being tortured. And there was another
guy out here. And so I really don't know what the story is with
those guys....if they're for real or not.

BILL: Have you had any contact from other scientists that you had
worked with or any other scientists either at S-4 or any other
scientists that don't work there?

LAZAR: Scientists that DON'T work there, yeah, that I worked with at
Los Alamos, sure. But none at S-4, no.

BILL: Since you've gone public with this, you've had contact with them
calling you and wanting to know what's going on, etcetera?

LAZAR: Oh yeah. There were a couple that I gave information to as we
were going along. And they knew what was going on already.....
through me.

BILL: If you had other people to back you up and support you, it might
lend more credibility to what you're saying.

LAZAR: That was part of the idea of getting it on the news, and I
thought hopefully I would shake the tree and have these other
guys come forward and all be able to corroborate the story and
also have 115 under my belt, but that whole plan backfired.

BILL: This is for them if they're listening: The rest of us simply
just don't have the guts to do anything, apparently.

LAZAR: I wish they did.

BILL: Anything in the works with regard to any national television
coverage or news media coverage of any sort?

LAZAR: There's been lots of talk but nothing definite. There's no date
set for anything, but there's been a tremendous amount of inter-
est, national and international.

BILL: I heard talk that there's a BIG underground base up there, too.
Did you know anything about that?

LAZAR: I've heard that story, but I have no first-hand knowledge of it.
I haven't been in any tunnels or any underground stuff.

BILL: If these aliens that have these UFOs are obviously thousands of
years advanced in technology, it seems, how in the world would
it seem that the Government would come in possession of these
UFOs, if in fact the aliens didn't actually want them to have
them?

LAZAR: I don't know. They look in very good condition. It doesn't
look like they were crashed, that they were retrieved somewhere.
It really looks like they were given. So I don't know; that
might be the case.

GOODMAN: Have you ever given thought to the fact that maybe they were
invited here and they actually landed here and that's why they
were here?

LAZAR: Yeah, it's possible.

GOODMAN: They could have come right to this area.

JIM from Las Vegas:
On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this anti-
matter gravity wave controller device. And you made a mock-up
copy?

LAZAR: A friend made one, yeah.

JIM: I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this anti-
gravity field?

LAZAR: Yeah.

JIM: And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame stood still?

LAZAR: Right.

JIM: And then the hole that you saw appear....

LAZAR: It wasn't a hole; it was a little disk.

JIM: Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated? Elaborate
on this. And how large was the force field?

LAZAR: The force field where the candle was?

JIM: The force field created by the anti-matter device.

LAZAR: It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the sphere.

JIM: Where was this area, just above the device?

LAZAR: Yeah, surrounding the sphere.

JIM: Did the sphere surround the device?

LAZAR: No, the sphere sits in the center of the device. It's a half-
sphere sitting on a plate, and a field surrounds the half-
sphere.

JIM: And you just place a candle in there?

LAZAR: No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I'm just tell-
ing you where the field EXTENDS from.

JIM: Oh, that's what I'm curious about.

LAZAR: No, they tap the field off using a wave guide, off of the
sphere. And this is a completely different setup, where they
had a mockup small gravity amplifier, and there were three
focused into a point, and that area of focus was probably nine
or ten inches in diameter.

JIM: They displaced this area or moved this area?

LAZAR: No, it wasn't displaced; it's just where the field was
generated.

JIM: And in there you put the candle?

LAZAR: Right.

JIM: And that thing can actually bounce golf balls of of it?

LAZAR: No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do with that
setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just when
the reactor was energized, before the wave guide was put on or
anything. We were just pushing on the field; it was being
demonstrated to me; and we just bounced a golf ball off the top.

JIM: And the candle: Does it melt and the flame stand still in this
DISK that you're talking about?

LAZAR: Well, in the AREA, yeah.

JIM: You don't have to put it in the center?

LAZAR: Right.

JIM: Just anywhere in the area?

LAZAR: Well, the actual flame of the candle WAS in the area.....in the
center of the disk.

JIM: And you saw this happen?

LAZAR: Yeah.

GOODMAN: You don't show much emotion.

LAZAR: Maybe that's my nature, but that's what happens after ten
o'clock if I'm sitting in one place.

GOODMAN: I'm not being derogatory about it. I'm just saying it seems
like there's no emotion. Some of this stuff that you're talking
about just gives me chills!

We get mail from people at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and
McDonnell Douglas. Would you like to work for people like that?

LAZAR: I don't know. I'm kind of used to working for myself. I don't
know about going to work for.......especially anything attached
to the Government again, [look with] distrust......

GOODMAN: Off the air, I asked what would you like to see for the future
and what could you do for humanity? He said we could talk about
that, but the main concern right now is how he can support him-
self, and I didn't realize you were having difficulty as far as
that.

LAZAR: Oh no, not really difficulty, but it's something always to look
for.

GOODMAN: How could anyone in our listening audience assist you?

LAZAR: Oh, they really can't. There's several things I did before I
began to get into the program up there. I used to race my jet
car. I'll probably start that up again this season and expand
my scientific business, United Nuclear. I'll probably increase
that into a sales field and things like that.

GOODMAN: Okay, I just thought we could bring that up just in case there
was someone out there that could use your services. What ser-
vice do you offer, if someone out there could use it?

LAZAR: Someone would have to be fooling around with plutonium, and
there aren't many people that do that.

GOODMAN: Don't bet on that. You never know.

CALLER: Was the craft you worked on one that WE made or was it one that
was brought here by the aliens from another planet?

LAZAR: This is a craft of alien origin.

CALLER: That was brought here BY them from another planet?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: Do we know anything about their way of life? Do they speak the
same language or what?

LAZAR: I really don't know. I really know very little about that. I'd
LIKE to know a lot about that. You assume that they mass-
produce the craft, so there must be some sort of factory some-
where. That means there must be workers in the factory. Do
they have a social life? I mean, the questions are endless.
I'd like to know myself.

CALLER: And if they are here on this planet, WHERE are they?

LAZAR: That's another good question. You got me. I really don't know.

CALLER: If one walked up to my door, what am I supposed to do?

LAZAR: I don't know. I guess you'll find out really quick if they're
benevolent or not. But as far as what to do, who knows?

GOODMAN: Say you're up in Kansas out in a farmland and you see this per-
son that looks really far-out, do you think they're just going
to wait for them to come to the door or do you think they're
going to shoot and ask questions later?

LAZAR: Probably shoot and ask questions later....

GOODMAN: That's the problem. Wouldn't that cause all kinds of conster-
nation amongst these people if they find out one of their people
were....

LAZAR: Well, you have all the stories of the abductee reports, about
medical examinations; I mean they go through a lot of trauma and
stuff like that. When it came right down to it, if I was con-
fronted by a bunch of them....my car stopped or something to
that effect, a craft obviously in sight....yeah, I'd take on a
hostile attitude really quickly.

GOODMAN: Unless you were told differently....

LAZAR: Right.

GOODMAN: ....by the Government: these people don't mean to harm you;
they're going to be landing in your cities, whatever; just
[kinda act friendly.]

CALLER: Do you think in the future our President will tell us on nat-
ional television that the UFOs are here, that he will make it
known to us?

LAZAR: I doubt it.

CALLER: You don't think he ever will?

LAZAR: No, I don't think he could muster up enough to do that.

CALLER: One of the presidents in the past was supposed to say that if he
was elected he was going to tell us all about it, but he didn't.

LAZAR: Carter. That tells you something right there, because he never
got in and denied it. He just got in and didn't say anything.

NEW CALLER:
Did you have a badge when you went to work?

LAZAR: Sure did.

CALLER: Did it have any designation on it?

LAZAR: As far as what?

CALLER: What did it say?

LAZAR: It's a white badge. It has two....a light blue and a dark blue
...diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12. The
clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was,
like I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as
the MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clear-
ance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it...
what else was on it......

CALLER: Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC....both words?

LAZAR: The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano]
badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly diff-
erent. I don't know if it was an older kind or what.

CALLER: You mentioned you were doing back-engineering, but specifically,
what was the breakdown of your duties, for example, for one day,
with respect to, say, what your co-workers were doing? What was
the breakdown, the division of tasks?

LAZAR: I have no knowledge of what the other people were doing.

CALLER: But you were not working simply by yourself.

LAZAR: No, just with one person.

CALLER: And what was the difference between what you did and what he
did?

LAZAR: Well, we were basically in the training phase. He was getting
me up to date on everything, so we never split off, and you
know, he went and did his thing, and I....

CALLER: Did you ever see an analysis or spectrogram of 115?

LAZAR: Yes.

CALLER: And what did that tell you?

LAZAR: Well, that it was an unknown element. Then we did density and
weight calculations, which are pretty basic, and of course it
was too heavy for its physical size. It was an X-Ray spectro-
graph. I don't remember what other tests we did to it.

CALLER: How did you know what the times of testing would be to go up to
the sites to view the object? And do you know where it's being
tested now?

LAZAR: Dennis told me the testing times. And of course those were the
times that I relayed to other people, and we went out there.
What was the other question?

CALLER: Do you know where it's being tested now?

LAZAR: Oh, I have no idea. In fact, if I was them, the last place I
would test them would be S-4.

NEW CALLER:
Are you familiar with Alnico 5 magnetic material we use here?

LAZAR: Yeah, it's a common....I never heard the 5 designation.

CALLER: It's a very dense magnet. Is that close to the material of 115?

LAZAR: Oh no, not at all. That's an acronym for aluminum, nickel,
iron, and cobalt, none of them being anywhere near it whatso-
ever.

CALLER: Are there portholes on that craft?

LAZAR: At the very top, there is portholes; they are square, though.

CALLER: But they must be able to see by TV or.....?

LAZAR: I don't know. I just saw from the outside. When I was inside,
I never....I don't think I really even bothered to look up
there; I don't recall.

CALLER: With the gravity generators running, is there thermal radiation?

LAZAR: No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom WHILE the
gravity generators were running, but the reactor itself....
there's no thermal radiation whatsoever. That was one of the
really shocking things because that violates the first law of
thermodynamics.

CALLER: The atomic weight of the 115 material: Is that heavier? We know
the 115 atomic weight would be different from the gravitational
weight. Is the gravitational weight of that material very
heavy?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: How does that stuff break off? Do you saw it or does it grind
up? How do you get to test grams or whatever it is?

LAZAR: I don't know. I really don't know how that's machined into it.
I know it is machined, but I don't know if there's any special
procedures employed.

CALLER: Does it melt?

LAZAR: I'm sure it does. And just historically, all heavy elements are
also toxic. I imagine it is a very toxic thing. What else? If
you use the standard designations as started at 103, its name
would be "unuspentium [sp?]." Its symbol....if it's going to be
plugged into the periodic chart....would be UUP. In fact, I
have a friend that gave it kind of a cute name; he calls it
"unobtainium."

CALLER: In your wildest dreams, do you think you would be able to create
any of this stuff on earth....in order to do the same thing?

LAZAR: In fact, I'm in the process of fabricating the gravity ampli-
fier, but then I'm at a tremendous shortage for power. So yeah,
I have even tried to do that stuff on my own.

CALLER: Is there any electronics as we know it....chips or transitors?

LAZAR: No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power
involved, too, there was no direct connection between the grav-
ity amplifiers and the reactor itself.

CALLER: Are the wave guides similar to what we use with microwaves?

LAZAR: Very similar.

GOODMAN: You mentioned all heavy metals are toxic?

LAZAR: Yeah, they seem to be. Lead, radium, plutonium......

GOODMAN: Element 115?

LAZAR: You would just assume it would be toxic.

CALLER: Is Sector 4 also called Papoose Dry Lake Bed?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: Is it also in a place called Emigrant Valley?

LAZAR: Right. You can see Papoose Dry Lake from out of the hangar
doors.

CALLER: In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn't a propulsion
unit the wrong idea? I feel this device is creating a situation
where it is diminishing or removing the localized gravitational
field, and long-distance body that they're heading toward is
actually PULLING the vehicle rather than it being pushed. Am I
correct in this?

LAZAR: The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled implies it's
being pulled by something externally: it's pulling something
else to IT. IT's creating the gravitational field.

CALLER: Is there any relation to the monopoles which [scientists] have
been looking for?

LAZAR: Well, they've been looking for the monopole magnet. But then
this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force.

CALLER: Different things but exhibiting similar effects?

LAZAR: Right.

CALLER: Last night I saw a four-door Japanese car. On the right-side,
rear, passenger door there were three 9mm bullet holes, about a
12-inch group. Is that the vehicle that was shot at?

LAZAR: No. That's similar to my car, but they missed me.

NEW CALLER:
Do we give something in exchange for all this information
they're giving us?

LAZAR: I really don't know. I don't know what went on behind the
scenes as far as how we got the technology.

CALLER: Did they give us the 115 in large quantities?

LAZAR: Yeah, 500 pounds is what I'm told. The way I've seen it, it
comes in little thin disks close to the size of a half dollar.

CALLER: Did you ever own any, or....?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: What happened to it?

LAZAR: It's gone. It was stolen out of my house along with some other
stuff that I got from there.

CALLER: [By] the Government?

LAZAR: That's what I assume; I HOPE it's in their hands; I'd hate it to
be in........a few people did know about it....some UFO-related
people....and I'd hate for unexperienced people to be in poss-
ession of the stuff.

But yeah, that was taken. We did get some film of it and some
film of it doing some really unusual things.

CALLER: How did you get hired at Area 51?

LAZAR: I was referred by a well-known physicist to talk to someone.
And I really don't want to go all into that because then I'm
pointing fingers at specific people.

CALLER: Were everyone's mouths shut where you worked?

LAZAR: Yeah, everyone wouldn't let you talk, and it wasn't a really
happy environment. Everyone was just into what they were doing
and that was it.

NEW CALLER:
What year were you working up there?

LAZAR: Last year.

CALLER: I heard from someone I know that's a pretty good source that a
small amount of plutonium, like a picogram, might be good for
you. Is that true?

LAZAR: No, not at all.

GOODMAN: What would you use plutonium for?

LAZAR: To die. In the lungs, it's almost immediate lung cancer. It's
toxic in itself. The body has a tough time getting rid of it.
It's just bad news.

GOODMAN: And you're messing with it.

LAZAR: I don't have any at my house.

GOODMAN: You said that's part of what you're working on.

LAZAR: Electronic equipment to detect plutonium: They're called alpha
radiation detectors or air proportional detectors.

GOODMAN: Why do you want to detect the plutonium?

LAZAR: They use them to screen personnel that are leaving an area
that's been plutonium contaminated; they check equipment for
plutonium contamination; so on and so forth.

GOODMAN: This is as bad as radiation?

LAZAR: Plutonium does produce radiation.

GOODMAN: So it's as bad as when they've been clearing the people in nuc-
lear power plants and stuff like this?

LAZAR: Yeah.

GOODMAN: And you're devising a device that's going to be easier?

LAZAR: No, our device is just less expensive.

CALLER: Can you list your credentials?

LAZAR: As far as what?

CALLER: Schooling, degrees.

LAZAR: I have two masters degrees; one's in physics; one's in electron-
ics. I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is magnetohydrodynamics.

I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then
as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section, dealing with the
accelerator there.

I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to work on gravi-
tational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with those
crafts.

CALLER: What school did you go to?

LAZAR: I'd rather not say, the reason being I am currently working with
them under contract, and I'm having enough trouble with this as
it is.

CALLER: Why did you leave the Groom Lake project?

LAZAR: I don't want to go into that either. That's a big, long compli-
cated story. It gets into my personal life, too, and I don't
want to get into that.

CALLER: Have there been any attempts made on your life?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: When was the last one?

LAZAR: There was only one direct one. I really don't remember when
that was, maybe six, eight months ago, something like that.
Just being shot at getting out on the freeway.

CALLER: Did another car drive by and shoot you?

LAZAR: Yeah.

CALLER: Are there any weapons on board the alien craft?

LAZAR: Not that I know of. Of course, the gravity generators them-
selves can be focused, and I imagine that can be used as a
weapon.

CALLER: How many alien people do they hold?

LAZAR: I don't know. How many people can you fit in a car? I imagine
if there's a bunch standing up, you can pack them in there.

CALLER: Is Element 115 an extraterrestrial material?

LAZAR: Yes, definitely.

CALLER: How do you suppose the S-4 project came to acquire 500 pounds if
it's not from this world?

LAZAR: I would imagine it came on one of the craft.

CALLER: Extra fuel, huh?

LAZAR: Maybe.

CALLER: How close can a civilian get to Area 51 or Emigrant Valley?
What is security like? How many guards and so forth?

LAZAR: I think the closest you can get is probably about 10 miles, and
then you get a mountain between you and them.

CALLER: A lot of patrols?

LAZAR: Oh yeah.

GOODMAN: Off the air, you said you traveled one time on hydrogen in your
car.

LAZAR: Yeah, I had a 1978 TransAm I converted to run on hydrogen.

GOODMAN: We were talking about this one night as a new fuel for transpor-
tation. Is that more dangerous than gasoline?

LAZAR: It depends how it's stored. There's ways you can do it.

You can store it as a gas, compressed in a cylinder where, yeah,
it's dangerous and explosive.

You can store it as a liquid....cryogenic liquid....where it's
also dangerous and explosive.

Or you can also store it in a hydride [sp], a chemical that
absorbs hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. When it's in that
storage state, it's really not flammable. You heat the chemical
using the radiator water, or electrically, or the exhaust gas to
produce the hydrogen, and there's only a small amount at a time
ever produced. And in that instance it's a lot safer than gaso-
line, and that's the method I use.

GOODMAN: In other words, we could put these in automobiles?

LAZAR: Absolutely, definitely. The only exhaust is water vapor....
essentially steam and very little oxides.

GOODMAN: Where do we get hydrogen?

LAZAR: The most common place is from water. When you pass electricity
through water, you break down the bonds and wind up with oxygen
and hydrogen.

GOODMAN: What could we be charged if we pulled up to a tank and asked for
some water?

LAZAR: It takes energy to separate the water back into its molecular
state, or atomic state rather.


GOODMAN: But forgetting what the components are inside the car, if a
driver were to drive up, they would just have to put water into
this particular unit? Could they make it that simple?

LAZAR: You could make it that simple, yes.

GOODMAN: Has this been known for years in the scientific field?

LAZAR: There's been plenty of cars that have been made to run on hydro-
gen. In fact one state somewhere has their entire postal fleet
with little jeeps that run on hydrogen. There's a company
called Billings Energy that does the conversions.

GOODMAN: Why do you think it's not being made readily available to us?

LAZAR: There's probably lots of reasons. You're looking at the oil
companies.....

GOODMAN: Okay. That's what I wanted to get to.

LAZAR: But you can always point your finger at them for anything.

GOODMAN: But I mean, it's just being held back from us even though it
could be here.

LAZAR: But you've got the problem of availability, too, if you're going
to just use gaseous hydrogen.

GOODMAN: What would it take to change our current motor in a car to
accept this?

LAZAR: Not very much at all. It's very similar to a propane
conversion.

GOODMAN: Have you heard from Mr. Teller at all?

LAZAR: No.

GOODMAN: Not one word? In other words, he's done nothing at all?

LAZAR: No.

GOODMAN: You said we're nowhere near being able to have an anti-matter
reactor?

LAZAR: No, not at all. The first thing we'll come up with when we toy
with that some more is -- and there's already been talk of it --
is an anti-matter weapon. Unfortunately, that's the easiest
thing to produce. First we'll see that before we'll see poten-
tial useful uses.

GOODMAN: I was talking to Bob Lazar off the air, and Bob is a jet car
driver. That's how he relaxes, doing 350 miles per hour.

ROGER: Are the nine disks quite different in appearance?

LAZAR: Yeah, they're all completely different in appearance.

ROGER: Are they then perhaps from different star systems?

LAZAR: Could be.

ROGER: You said the one you looked at, the Sport Model, was from
Reticulum, right?

LAZAR: That's what I READ.

ROGER: So that has the gravity propulsion system. But then some of the
others may have some other type of propulsion system?

LAZAR: I was told that the reactors are all similar in them [the
crafts], and from that I just assume that the propulsion system
is the same. But it is possible that the other ones have diff-
erent propulsion systems, yeah.

ROGER: How many light years from Earth to Reticulum?

LAZAR: 32, 33, 34, somewhere around there.

ROGER: They must get away from Earth before they amplify these gravita-
tional systems, do they not?

LAZAR: They don't HAVE to, but it has to be a line of sight where they
can move to.

ROGER: In other words, it wouldn't have any effect on the Earth even
though it were close to it when they turned it on?

LAZAR: No.

ROGER: Where do the aliens fit into religion? They must say something
about it. I heard that they had a [bearing] on us through
religion, perhaps through colonization.

LAZAR: I've read some about that. You know, I don't want to go into
that because that's going to upset everybody.

CALLER: What is the top speed of the craft?

LAZAR: It's tough to say a top speed because to say speed you have to
compare distance and time. And when you're screwing around with
time and distorting it, you can no longer judge a velocity.
They're not traveling in a linear mode where they just fly and
cover a certain distance in a certain time. That's the real
definition of speed. They're bending and distorting space and
then essentially snapping it back with the craft, so the dis-
tances they can travel are phenomenal....in little or no time.
So speed has little bearing.

CALLER: Is the laser part of their technology or their flying speed?

LAZAR: No, I haven't seen anything along that line.

CALLER: Is Rockwell involved with that?

LAZAR: Not that I've seen.

PISTOL: You've mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter genera-
tor. Are they different?

LAZAR: It's not a gravity generator; it's a gravity amplifier. I get
tongue-twisted all too often.

The anti-matter reactor provides the power for the craft and the
basic low-amplitude gravitational wave, which is too low of an
amplitude to do anything. It's piped into the gravity ampli-
fiers, which are found at the bottom of the craft. There it's
amplified into an extremely powerful wave, and that's what the
craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter reactor: that's
what provides the power.

ROGER NELSON, KBAY-Radio San Francisco announcer:
Last time I asked Bob Lazar about the hyper-light propulsion
systems he had seen, he said the crafts have hyper-light capa-
bilities....beyond the speed of light. Do you know anyone in
our government or who worked on the craft who might be from
Earth who has taken those craft and flown past the speed of
light to other galaxies?

LAZAR: I don't, and I don't know if they have been used for that.

NELSON: Is there any way to find how many of our guys on particular
programs have gone to space, what they're learning, exactly
where they are now, and whether or not there's any tie-in with
the Alternative Three Escape-Earth Plan that supposedly the
Government leaders are stirring up now. Is there any place that
you know of that this information can be found?

LAZAR: I imagine, if any of that is in fact true, it would be found in
the midst of S-4 or 51 down there. But how to contact those
guys and actually get them to talk is a feat not yet attained.

NELSON: What is it you are now doing now that they have cut you off at
the knees?

LAZAR: I do other scientific research and produce, design, and repair
alpha radiation detection equipment.

NELSON: A number of copies of these broadcasts and the show on Channel 8
and all the other stuff has been getting around, perhaps even
internationally. Has anybody bothered you since you went
public?

LAZAR: Other than the sily little things that have been done, no,
nothing, nothing big to be concerned about.

NELSON: Are we going to see you at any of these things like the January
7th conference ["An Evening With Bill Cooper," Showboat Hotel
Sports Pavilion, Las Vegas, Nevada, 5:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m., $15
per person], or other symposiums in the future?

LAZAR: I don't think so, no.

NELSON: Well look, I think you're a very brave man. With that kind of
an onus on your head, it takes a lot of courage to keep coming
back to the airwaves. I stand up and cheer as one.

CALLER: How do your magnetohydrodynamics studies relate to the hot spots
in the earth's magnetic flux, and does that relate to the deep-
hole theory, the Soviet Union's plan?

LAZAR: I don't know what the Soviet Union's plan was. I looked at it
from a power point of view, as producing on a large scale plasma
-generated energy in a power-plant situation, or producing some-
thing that would retrofit....like a coal-fired plant that has a
lot of waste heat and high-energy plasma.

CALLER: The question is, are you experimenting using the earth's flux?

LAZAR: No. There's stand-alone high-energy magnets that I use.

CALLER: What is the atomic weight of 115?

LAZAR: I hate even to guess. I know it because we've written it down
because we've calculated it, but I really don't remember.

CALLER: Can you give us a ballpark?

LAZAR: No, 'cause I'd be wrong! Just like if I gave a ballpark on the
gravitational wave frequency....and that's really bugging the
hell out of me.

There were three things, as a matter of fact, that for some
reason I've developed a mental block on. I'll have to call
Billy, and then he can announce it on the air. I'll just call
him and then he can relay it to everyone.

NEW CALLER:
I'd like to stand up and cheer for Bob Lazar! It does take a
lot of courage, and it's about time somebody stepped forward
with some information that's being kept from us for so long.

How long do you think it took them to make their journey here,
using their methods of propulsion?

LAZAR: An extremely short time. I'd hesitate to say, but I don't think
you're even looking at days.

CALLER: Is that because of this gravity lines-of-force thing or because
time stands still for them and it really does take a long time
but they don't know it because time stands still?

LAZAR: No, they're actually traveling almost IN-BETWEEN time because of
the way that they distort time and space. So that they're
traveling vast distances without the incrementation of time.
The time would be very, very little. Days is probably....I'm
way off saying that, too. But I hate to say something and be
really far off.

CALLER: Could these aliens be robots and not actually be native beings
from that galaxy?

LAZAR: I imagine it's possible. Who knows what actually flew the
craft, whether or not aliens have ever been in Area S-4 down
there, but it's possible that some automated creature flew them.
Who knows?

GOODMAN: You made a statement when he asked how long it took them to get
here, and when you were inside the spacecraft itself you didn't
see any sleeping quarters. So perhaps they just start in the
morning and they're here in the afternoon; it's that simple as
far as OUR time goes.

LAZAR: If it even takes that long.

BARBARA: When your hypnotherapist, Layne Keck, talked on the air about
you, did you request that?

LAZAR: That he talk about me?

BARBARA: Uh huh.

LAZAR: No, George Knapp requested that, and then Layne called me to
find out if it would be okay, and I said yeah, go ahead.

BARBARA: Well, I called the office and that was what I was told, and it
didn't seem quite....

LAZAR: That I requested Layne to go on? No.

BARBARA: That's what the person in the office said.

How was your experience there with him? How did you feel about
your experience?

LAZAR: As far as what? How I got along with Layne?

BARBARA: No. As far as how you felt comfortable with going back to some
unpleasant experiences.

LAZAR: The emotions came up when you're under hypnosis, and that part
wasn't exactly pleasant.

BARBARA: How do you feel about it today?

LAZAR: I feel better. At the time, it wasn't very pleasant. But in
general, just being under hypnosis is a really good feeling.

BARBARA: You have the videotape of that?

LAZAR: Yeah.

BARBARA: It's in your possession?

LAZAR: I don't want to say where it is, but I know where it is.

BARBARA: I'm going to be doing that because I was with him. So for my
own personal information, I just wanted to do that, because I
have good aliens, bad aliens, you know, it runs in my family.
And there's an extreme reason why I'm going to be doing this,
so I wanted to clarify that and try to make myself . . .Although
I can do it on my own, I won't go deeper than a certain point.

NEW CALLER:
Is there any limit on the distance a spaceship can travel. Can
it actually travel out of our galaxy to the Andromeda galaxy?
How far can 223 grams of Element 115 take you?

LAZAR: I really don't know. From what I understand, the actual con-
sumption of the element is very low; I imagine it is possible
with enough [junk] made to travel to another galaxy.

CALLER: I assume the gravity wave is more powerful than the gamma wave,
correct?

LAZAR: Than the GAMMA wave?

CALLER: Or the spectral wave? What's the limit on light waves with the
10 billion light years or something....how far light can travel?

LAZAR: A limit as far as what? It depends on the interaction: the
gravitational fields the beam passes through, the photons pass
through, and so on and so forth, so there's no real limit at
true dead space.

As I said last time, and only one person took advantage of it,
if anyone does have any questions they want to ask me, they can
write in care of this station. A person called earlier and
wanted a copy of that newspaper article. I have no problem in
copying that and sending it to him. So just write to the
station, whatever the address is.


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