===========================================================================
BBS: Flite-Line
Date: 06-10-92 (22:40) Number: 3964
From: DON ALLEN Refer#: NONE
To: ALL Recvd: YES
Subj: STS-UFO - Hard Copy Conf: (46) UFO Networ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Forwarded from Usenet **

[ This probably should be sub-titled "The Clueless Skeptic" ...it's
pretty apparent that Sheaffer did NOT see the segment. A number of people
in alt.alien.visitors have taken him to task, me included. - DonA ]

=========================================================================


Article 5415 of alt.alien.visitors:
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: bilver!tous!tarpit!fang!att!att!linac!
pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!
mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: UFO video from NASA - The CAMERA was moving!
Message-ID: <q#=lmw.sheaffer@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 92 21:17:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services guest)
References: <nreads01.707781749@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
Keywords: UFO

In article <nreads01.707781749@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
nreads01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Nick Eads) writes:

Did anyone catch today's Hard Copy (6/5)? (Of course, I hate to admit that

I

saw it myself -- it was an accident.) They showed what I feel is some of

the

most impressive evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial activity. The >video was shot by one of the astronauts on a recent (the most recent?) >shuttle mission. I will describe the video as it was shown...

Looking toward the surface of the earth, and just below the horizon, a
small light moved slowly (relatively, of course) from the right to the

left.

Then suddenly, and without *apparent* cause, the thing immediately executes
a 90 degree turn and accelerates rapidly off across the horizon and into >space. Meanwhile, at roughly the same location where the thing was at the >moment before turning, another something shoots rapidly *up* from earth and >into space. According to the UFO investigator (pardon me, but I forget
his name, but he is on the UFO magazine staff), somebody "shot" something
at it, and the thing anticipated the shot and evaded.

Official explanation from NASA was "it was ice" left by the shuttle. ICE? >That's a heck of a change in attitude and speed for a piece of orbiting
ice. Of course, one can't be sure of the distance from the shuttle, which >would be a vital piece of info. I'm usually not impressed by UFO reports, >but this was something to see. Anyone else catch it?

I spoke to James Oberg about this. He didn't know it had been on "Hard
Copy", but he's quite familiar with the video. Apparently it's something
that some UFO enthusiast taped off the "NASA Select" cable channel late
one night, got excited, and flew off the handle. The far-out fringe of
UFOlogy has been promoting it ever since.

Yes, it IS a piece of ice, floating in the payload bay of the shuttle Discovery. It's illuminated by the lights in the payload bay. But what
your Trash TV program surely did not tell you is: what you saw was motion
of the CAMERA, not motion of the object. You see, NASA mission controllers leave the camera on during the "night", while the crew is asleep. The
camera is then controlled from the ground, with a little joystick-type arrangement. If the mission controllers want to look over here, or
over there, they just flip the lever, and the camera moves. And if
some brain-dead UFOlogist just happens to be watching as the camera
is turned away from a piece of ice, he says "Wow! Look at that baby accelerate!!!!!!"
--

Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when
authorized!

"Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
table like a card cheat."
- Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry",
Spring, 1992)



** End of Article **

Dona @bilver.uucp


--- RemoteAccess 0.03+

===========================================================================
BBS: Flite-Line
Date: 06-12-92 (00:57) Number: 4041
From: DON ALLEN Refer#: NONE
To: JOHN HICKS Recvd: YES
Subj: STS-UFO - Hard Copy Conf: (46) UFO Networ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ This probably should be sub-titled "The Clueless Skeptic" ...it's pretty apparent that Sheaffer did NOT see the segment.

Yeah, Sheaffer's obviously talking about something else.

Well, hold on to your hats, this thread is getting interesting..

I got this off The Net just tonight:

-----Begin text-----------------------------------------------------------

** Forwarded from Usenet **

This is from a current thread on Usenet re: STS-UFO video that Don Ecker
showed recently on "Hard Copy" . This suggests a different perspective
than what "net.skeptic" Robert Sheaffer has echoed in NASA's "It was ice and thrusters..but no UFO's" postings on alt.alien.visitors.

Robert was quoted recently as saying:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

***** Begin Quote *****


I spoke to James Oberg about this. He didn't know it had been on "Hard
Copy", but he's quite familiar with the video. Apparently it's something
that some UFO enthusiast taped off the "NASA Select" cable channel late
one night, got excited, and flew off the handle. The far-out fringe of
UFOlogy has been promoting it ever since.

Yes, it IS a piece of ice, floating in the payload bay of the shuttle Discovery. It's illuminated by the lights in the payload bay. But what
your Trash TV program surely did not tell you is: what you saw was motion
of the CAMERA, not motion of the object. You see, NASA mission controllers leave the camera on during the "night", while the crew is asleep. The
camera is then controlled from the ground, with a little joystick-type arrangement. If the mission controllers want to look over here, or
over there, they just flip the lever, and the camera moves. And if
some brain-dead UFOlogist just happens to be watching as the camera
is turned away from a piece of ice, he says "Wow! Look at that baby accelerate!!!!!!"


***** End Quote ******


--Begin included article --


=======================================================================

Article 5460 of alt.alien.visitors:
Path: bilver!tous!peora!masscomp!usenet.coe.montana.edu!
rpi!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!dtix!oasys!283s
From: 283s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Marcy Weibe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO video from NASA - The CAMERA was moving!
Message-ID: <20872@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Date: 10 Jun 92 14:00:41 GMT
References: <1992Jun9.163756.5076@iscsvax.uni.edu>
<1992Jun10.123920.13222@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>
Reply-To: 283s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Marcy Weibe)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD
Lines: 43

First, I am using my wife's account. Second, I am very familiar with
this footage (just by the description) because I was one of the researchers
who pulled the original tapes. The trush is that the objects (not object)
were being referenced against an Earth background. The atmosphere is
also visible as a thin band along the edge of the Earth background.
This gives us the camera reference we are looking for. The camera
did not move. A rotation of the Earth versus the Orbiter reference
shows the camera very steady.

Next, we have the objects in question, and there are a couple of "hat"
shaped objects which are present at the same distance on different days.
However, these do not make abrupt turns or accelerate. They are very stationary with respect to the background and surrounding smaller particles.
The objects being mentioned that are seemingly changing velocity and direction, are very hard to get a size fix on. The stationary and slightly wobbling hat types are also hard to judge size but they have a definite observable shape to them; tophat if you will.

I am aware of Mr. Oberg's knowledge of this and the original ufologist
who brought these to our attention. A very talented collegue of mine
and myself proceeded to do an extensive study of these and remained
collective throughout the study. It then so happened that the astronauts
were attending a dinner locally to be congratulated on their successful misison. Digital zooming providing by me on all subject objects, with
color removed for clarity, and a tape of this was hand delivered to
one of the crew at this dinner. A thorough study was promised. By
this time, Mr. Oberg was in full defense. A somewhat cocky attitude
was observed in his correspondence. This was long before any rational
study was concluded.

My experiences with UFO's and video go deep into the Gulf Breeze sightings
case and beyond. I know a tru-f-o when I see one. The astronauts efforts,
---

===========================================================================
BBS: Flite-Line
Date: 06-14-92 (12:55) Number: 4187
From: DON ECKER Refer#: NONE
To: JOHN HICKS Recvd: YES
Subj: Nasa Videotape Conf: (46) UFO Networ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Hicks wrote:

Many of you presumably saw Don Ecker on Hard Copy the other night, and
the video tape from Discovery.
The tape shows a about a quarter-Earth, with a small white object
slowly moving along in the mid-upper right. The object appears to
suddenly make a 90-degree turn and accelerate. What looks like a faint
blob of material appears to shoot from the lower left toward the spot
where the object initiated its turn.
Don asserted that the object was a ufo of some sort, and something
fired a "shot" at it, which it dodged. However.......

Actually John, what I said was that IMHO it could not have been "ice", and
as far as it being a UFO, I mean in the truest sense of the word, "Unidentified, Flying, and an Object". I SPECULATED a "shot", and the 140 degree turn was somewhat dramatic. I just received a 1st generation copy of
the tape and will have analysis done on it. I also have the official NASA "explanation" of these events and more will be heard on this very soon.

a) What specifically were the astronauts supposedly taping?
b) Did a manuevering jet that would have been visible fire at the corresponding time with what we saw on the tape? (hint....the original
tape would almost certainly have been time-coded, and of course NASA
would know exactly what time a jet was fired.) If the times
coincide, then we're forced to accept that explanation pending
further information.

This was just prior to the "water dump" which did have shuttle manuvers connected with the "dump". In the dump, the camera, shuttle and everything
else did move. With event # 2, (object, "shot" etc.) nothing else had
movement. Stay tuned.

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
PO Bx 1053
Sunland, CA 91041

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