Greetings!

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looking for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well supported and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells and whistles. So far, I've heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What else is out there?

HAGO!
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm look for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well supported and wel documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells and whistles. So far, heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What else is out there?

Renegade - http://www.rgbbs.info

... I don't recall running for this office.

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

To: Mortar M.
Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Mortar M. to All on Tue Nov 19 2024 11:43 pm

Greetings!

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looking for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well supported and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells and whistles.
So far, I've heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What else is out there?

i tried them all and i'd suggest synchronet.
the rest have issues.

for bbs softwares theres:
bbbs
vadv
wwiv
mystic
citadel

and many more. it's all about your preference.
try them out.

you can even run an older one that doesn't have a telnet server
by using dosbox or a telnet server like gameserv or synchronet with a script to run your bbs as a door.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looking for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well supported

and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells and whistles.

So far, I've heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What else is out there?

What OS are you wanting to run it on?

-- Sean



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.0 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Mortar M. wrote to All <=-

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looking for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well
supported and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells
and whistles. So far, I've heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What
else is out there?

Synchronet and Mystic are both well documented and well supported. Both
have their own look and feel, features and shortcomings. I think it
boils down to personal preference - you can't go wrong with either.



... Always the first steps
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

On 19 Nov 24 23:43:48, Mortar M. said the following to All:

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looki for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well supported and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells and whistles. So far, I heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What else is out there?

You may find your options are greatest if you run 32-bit Windows either on a real hardware or in a virtual machine.

Many DOS and Windows BBS software, all the fun door games, Fido mailers, utilities & mods etc... all of it just seems to be best on that OS.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Mortar M. <=-

Many DOS and Windows BBS software, all the fun door games, Fido
mailers, utilities & mods etc... all of it just seems to be best on
that OS.

DOS software runs well under DOSemu in Linux. I even set up your compile
of RG once to see if it'd work. It does, quite well.

-- Sean

... Software independent: it won't work with any software.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

I'm thinking about starting my own BBS, strictly through Telnet. I'm looking for a setup that's new-user friendly, i.e., stable, well
supported and well documented. It doesn't have to have lots of bells
and whistles. So far, I've heard about Synchronet and Mystic. What
else is out there?

I can suggest the following;

Synchronet
Mystic
Enigma.5
Talisman

Legacy;
Renegade
MajorBBS
Virtual BBS

All that being said, I'd suggest using Synchronet *IF* you are going to stick with it and completely customize your BBS in the end. IMO its the most stable, most capable and most reliable BBS software.

I use Mystic - its quick, easy and similar to Renegade but with advancements in the MPL language for customizing using code. Its where the cool kids go.

Enigma.5 is rad - built on current day .json and can be powerful - again, you'll have to customize to make something cool.

The legacy stuff if you want to live in 1990...



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Sean Dennis to Mortar M. on Wed Nov 20 2024 14:26:59

What OS are you wanting to run it on?

Either Windows or Linux. Too early to decide.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Nick Andre wrote to Mortar M. <=-

You may find your options are greatest if you run 32-bit Windows either
on a real hardware or in a virtual machine.

Many DOS and Windows BBS software, all the fun door games, Fido
mailers, utilities & mods etc... all of it just seems to be best on
that OS.

I'm testing out 64-bit Windows 11 with my BBS - I've gotten all of my
archivers switched out for Windows-compatible versions and most of my
door games are Javascript based. I've added a game door to multi-BBS
games, since I don't have a lot of gamers logging in here.

Worried that in 2025, Windows 10 will go EOL and there are no supported
32-bit windows options at that point. It's either that or Linux.




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

On 21 Nov 24 18:06:08, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

I'm testing out 64-bit Windows 11 with my BBS - I've gotten all of my archivers switched out for Windows-compatible versions and most of my
door games are Javascript based. I've added a game door to multi-BBS
games, since I don't have a lot of gamers logging in here.

Nice!

Worried that in 2025, Windows 10 will go EOL and there are no supported 32-bit windows options at that point. It's either that or Linux.

I'm more worried of "Windows as-a-service" or "Windows 365" in the longrun.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Kurt Weiske to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 21 2024 06:06 pm

I'm testing out 64-bit Windows 11 with my BBS - I've gotten all of my archivers switched out for Windows-compatible versions and most of my
door games are Javascript based. I've added a game door to multi-BBS
games, since I don't have a lot of gamers logging in here.

and you wont have any gamers with that kind of setup.
that's basically phoning it in.

Worried that in 2025, Windows 10 will go EOL and there are no supported 32-bit windows options at that point. It's either that or Linux.

what are you worried for all of a sudden? you ran tinyxp and other stuff for years.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Nick Andre
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nick Andre to Kurt Weiske on Thu Nov 21 2024 09:30 pm

Worried that in 2025, Windows 10 will go EOL and there are no supported 32-bit windows options at that point. It's either that or Linux.

I'm more worried of "Windows as-a-service" or "Windows 365" in the longrun.

that's their gameplan but people and businesses will not conform unless it's slipped in little by little.

i dont think home users would want to pay for windows as a service but pc desktops have been in the decline for a long time so it may be a non issue.
people have their phones.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Nick Andre wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I'm more worried of "Windows as-a-service" or "Windows 365" in the longrun.

I have a few friends who work for Microsoft and they've postulated that
Windows will end up a window manager running on top of Linux.

I don't take much stock in that but I do know that Windows is not the cash
cow it once was for M$.

-- Sean

... WinErr 010: Reserved for future mistakes by our developers.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Mortar M. wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Either Windows or Linux. Too early to decide.

I use MBSE under Slackware Linux. It works well for me. DOSemu also allows
me to run DOS doors and even participate in a few IBBS games. There's a
pretty steep learning curve but once you catch on, it's very reliable.

If you're wanting a more modern board, I'd stick with what's already been mentioned like Synchronet or Mystic.

If you're going more retro, maybe something like Maximus/NT might be worth
it.

However, the big problem as it's been said, is DOS doors under modern
Windows.

I ran my BBS under OS/2 for decades before switching to Linux. My personal justification for the move is that I needed the BBS to do more than just
run the BBS and remote access (I am not in good health and I have been hospitalized a lot).

-- Sean




... I pulled a muscle digging for gold. Just a miner injury.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Nick Andre on Fri Nov 22 2024 12:14:51

...people have their phones.

Pffft. Forget about some virus, it cell phones that'll cause the Zombie Apocolypse. Oh wait, it's already here.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Hello Nick,

On Thu, Nov 21 2024 15:30:19 -0600, you wrote:

I'm more worried of "Windows as-a-service" or "Windows 365" in the
longrun.

That may not actually be a bad thing. Something as dumb as that would probably convince more AAA game developing companies to make even *more* games for Linux, which would probably move more people away from Windows. :)

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

On 22 Nov 24 18:27:15, Nicholas Boel said the following to Nick Andre:

I'm more worried of "Windows as-a-service" or "Windows 365" in the
longrun.

That may not actually be a bad thing. Something as dumb as that would prob convince more AAA game developing companies to make even *more* games for Linux, which would probably move more people away from Windows. :)

Not all of us sit around playing games ;)

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Not all of us sit around playing games ;)

Well said. Or sit around playing I can type out a 900 line of text in
linux to do a COPY *.* command. Just to do things DOS did 30 years ago easier.

... You're floatin' for a slit-throatin'...

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

Hello T.J.,

On Fri, Nov 22 2024 15:40:55 -0600, you wrote:

Not all of us sit around playing games ;)

Play games, mess around with your BBS software on OS/2 for hours on end, same difference. We all waste countless hours doing what others would consider pointless shit. *shrug*

Well said. Or sit around playing I can type out a 900 line of text in
linux to do a COPY *.* command. Just to do things DOS did 30 years ago easier.

To be fair, I didn't talk shit about Windows, as I still use it also. I just said that if they do something stupid like some kind of 365 crap, more people will leave the Windows fandom.

Now, in defense to your statement:

First, to do the exact same thing you mention above is actually "cp *" in Linux, so it looks like you didn't do your studying on what commands are longer than others, before spouting off at the mouf. :D

Second, only one of the two you mention above is still currently supported.

Third, every few years you have to upgrade operating systems (not too far, though.. because any further into the new millenium and your old software won't work properly unless you update it) to stick with a 32bit version that still supports your hobbies. Then with the discontinuation of 32bit Windows, the future is looking pretty grim, especially for any newcomers that want to do all of this on their modern OSes.

Last, door games run great on 64bit Linux. You can definitely keep on hatin' on it, though! :D

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

To: Mortar M.
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Mortar M. to Jas Hud on Fri Nov 22 2024 03:59 pm

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Nick Andre on Fri Nov 22 2024 12:14:51

...people have their phones.

Pffft. Forget about some virus, it cell phones that'll cause the Zombie Apocolypse. Oh wait, it's already here.

i'd rather be on my phone than talk to some stranger.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: T.J. Mcmillen
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: T.J. Mcmillen to Nick Andre on Fri Nov 22 2024 09:40 pm

Not all of us sit around playing games ;)

Well said. Or sit around playing I can type out a 900 line of text in
linux to do a COPY *.* command. Just to do things DOS did 30 years ago easier.

i dunno, linux is stuff is pretty easy. i never had to type out 900 lines in text.

there are some things about it that piss me off, but not those kind of things. it's usually what developers do and how short sighted they are.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Third, every few years you have to upgrade operating systems (not too far, though.. because any further into the new millenium and your old software won't work properly unless you update it) to stick with a 32bit version th still supports your hobbies. Then with the discontinuation of 32bit Window the future is looking pretty grim, especially for any newcomers that want do all of this on their modern OSes.

Not really. I'm running the BBS from Win7, Nick is running from XP. The BBS is on it's own computer. No care about EOL or security for it. What are they gonna take, door game reg codes? ;)

... I'm part Scotch -- my other part's water.

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

On 23 Nov 24 11:08:07, T.J. Mcmillen said the following to Nicholas Boel:

Not really. I'm running the BBS from Win7, Nick is running from XP. The B is on it's own computer. No care about EOL or security for it. What are they gonna take, door game reg codes? ;)

I wish I kept all the hilarious messages from 2002 telling me I was going to be "hacked tomorrow" for running XP let alone running on port 23.

Tomorrow never came...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello T.j.,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 05:08:07 -0600, you wrote..

Third, every few years you have to upgrade operating systems (not too far, >> though.. because any further into the new millenium and your old software
won't work properly unless you update it) to stick with a 32bit version th >> still supports your hobbies. Then with the discontinuation of 32bit Window >> the future is looking pretty grim, especially for any newcomers that want
do all of this on their modern OSes.

Not really. I'm running the BBS from Win7, Nick is running from XP. The BBS is on it's own computer. No care about EOL or security for it. What are they gonna take, door game reg codes? ;)

I *think* everything I wrote above still stands here, even after your
reply. :)

I didn't say anything about not being secure, since that can be
controlled by the person operating it. You can definitely lock down XP
or 7, or anything prior to those, to only allow the connections you
want. The only reason people freak out about security issues is because
it's not actually getting security updates any more (which really isn't
a big deal if you have a decent firewall), and because Microsoft says
you shouldn't run it.

I was merely stating one must run old and outdated Windows operating
systems to run said software. Even more so with the phasing out of 32bit Windows.

That also doesn't affect the fact that I have an XP VM with said
software setup on it, either. :)

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Hello Nick,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 05:20:58 -0600, you wrote..

I wish I kept all the hilarious messages from 2002 telling me I was
going to be "hacked tomorrow" for running XP let alone running on
port 23.

Tomorrow never came...

IMO, people that freak out about EOLs are just too ingrained that they
should be paying for and/or upgrading to the latest and greatest when
they're told to do so.

How could you possibly be hacked on port 23, running a BBS, aside from
having some kind of backdoor in the software you're answering with
(which you don't, so it's basically impossible without gaining sysop
access)?

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Nick Andre wrote to T.J. Mcmillen <=-

I wish I kept all the hilarious messages from 2002 telling me I was
going to be "hacked tomorrow" for running XP let alone running on port
23.

Tomorrow never came...

I'm sorting through my mom's affairs while we get her ready for a new
living situation, and sorting through 25,000 unread emails. 500 of them
were from McAfee warning her of the danger of virii and the need for her
to renew the evaluation account she had on a Dell laptop I bought her in
2008 or so.

She's been on a Chromebook for the past 10 years.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

I was merely stating one must run old and outdated Windows operating systems to run said software. Even more so with the phasing out of 32bit Windows.

BOOO!! I was up for a good OS fight! ;)

... How will banning *MY* firearms reduce crime?

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (1:129/305)

On 23 Nov 24 09:35:19, Kurt Weiske said the following to Nick Andre:

I'm sorting through my mom's affairs while we get her ready for a new living situation, and sorting through 25,000 unread emails. 500 of them were from McAfee warning her of the danger of virii and the need for her
to renew the evaluation account she had on a Dell laptop I bought her in 2008 or so.

Is it the emails with the picture of a super-scary-Matrix-hacker-in-a-hoodie with the zeroes and ones in the background?

Or the ones with the big stupid shield icon and 22-point fonts?

I swear cybersecurity companies are as bad or worse as the malware itself.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello T.J.,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 08:25:51 -0600, you wrote ..

I was merely stating one must run old and outdated Windows operating systems to run said software. Even more so with the phasing out of 32bit Windows.

BOOO!! I was up for a good OS fight! ;)

HAHA. I don't think I'd be able to participate for very long, as I'd end
up fighting with myself! That might look a bit wierd.

I use both Windows and Linux for different tasks, and appreciate what
they both have to offer! :)

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

To: T.J. Mcmillen
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: T.J. Mcmillen to Nicholas Boel on Sat Nov 23 2024 11:08 am

Not really. I'm running the BBS from Win7, Nick is running from XP. The BBS is on it's own computer. No care about EOL or security for it. What are
they gonna take, door game reg codes? ;)

well what they are going to shoot for is putting some crypto thing on there where they want you to send them bitcoin and everything is encrypted, or they want to use your computer for a botnet.

you aren't entirely save because of obscurity.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 23 Nov 24 11:04:20, Nicholas Boel said the following to All:

How could you possibly be hacked on port 23, running a BBS, aside from having some kind of backdoor in the software you're answering with
(which you don't, so it's basically impossible without gaining sysop access)?

Dunno. When I asked politely this reason (And pointing out I have the source code for the software I run), was just given the Nothingburger replies of
"Go look it up why XP sucks" or "Anythings possible, nothing is hackproof".

One bragged about hanging out online with superhackerz "who take down networks for fun" to which I politely challenged him to go ahead and take my subnet
down while the popcorn gets ready. He never replied and vanished months later.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Nick,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 10:01:41 -0600, you wrote ..

Dunno. When I asked politely this reason (And pointing out I have the source code for the software I run), was just given the Nothingburger replies of
"Go look it up why XP sucks" or "Anythings possible, nothing is hackproof".

I mean sure, anything is possible. However, they're not getting through
unless you specifically let them. Aside from that, that "anything is
possible" also goes for the latest and greatest OSes out there, too.

One bragged about hanging out online with superhackerz "who take down networks
for fun" to which I politely challenged him to go ahead and take my subnet down while the popcorn gets ready. He never replied and vanished months later.

3y3m 601n6 70 h4x0r j00!
NO CARRIER

:)

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

To: Nick Andre
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nick Andre to T.J. Mcmillen on Sat Nov 23 2024 11:20 am

I wish I kept all the hilarious messages from 2002 telling me I was going to be "hacked tomorrow" for running XP let alone running on port 23.

Tomorrow never came...

well there WERE exploits released to get into windows xp and windows 7 easily. luckily if you kept it updating and didn't disable anything that wasn't possible or atleast harder for attackers. people were holding onto xp for so long so microsoft kept sending some updates for quite some time.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Nicholas Boel wrote to All <=-

Not really. I'm running the BBS from Win7, Nick is running from XP. The

BBS

is on it's own computer. No care about EOL or security for it. What are they gonna take, door game reg codes? ;)

I didn't say anything about not being secure, since that can be
controlled by the person operating it. You can definitely lock down XP
or 7, or anything prior to those, to only allow the connections you
want. The only reason people freak out about security issues is because it's not actually getting security updates any more (which really isn't
a big deal if you have a decent firewall), and because Microsoft says
you shouldn't run it.

I was merely stating one must run old and outdated Windows operating systems to run said software. Even more so with the phasing out of
32bit Windows.

I'm not 100% sure, as I don't use Windows and have only the info I read
(some of it on BBSes), but.... isn't there something called
"NTVDM<something>" that allows modern Windows (64-bit Win 10/11) to run
old 16-bit (DOS) software? I'm fairly certain many Sysops are doing
that, and running any/all software they want to.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

On 23 Nov 24 14:55:51, Jas Hud said the following to Nick Andre:

well there WERE exploits released to get into windows xp and windows 7 easi luckily if you kept it updating and didn't disable anything that wasn't possible or atleast harder for attackers. people were holding onto xp for long so microsoft kept sending some updates for quite some time.

Please tell us more Professor, we just got our first computers yesterday.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nick Andre to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 22 2024 19:37:34

Not all of us sit around playing games ;)

Here here!
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to T.J. Mcmillen on Fri Nov 22 2024 21:34:03

...if they do something stupid like some kind of 365 crap, more
people will leave the Windows fandom.

Probably not as many as might think. People, as a whole, tend to take the path of least resistance, even if it isn't the best path to take. I think most people will stick with Windows, no mater what's done with it rather than have to learn a whole new OS, especially if they've never heard of it before, which (based on informal surveying at work) seems to be most. And those who have heard of it, don't have a clue as to what it does.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

To: Nick Andre
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nick Andre to Jas Hud on Sat Nov 23 2024 05:31 pm

On 23 Nov 24 14:55:51, Jas Hud said the following to Nick Andre:

well there WERE exploits released to get into windows xp and windows

7
easi luckily if you kept it updating and didn't disable anything that wasn't possible or atleast harder for attackers. people were holding onto xp for long so microsoft kept sending some updates for quite some time.

Please tell us more Professor, we just got our first computers yesterday.

HAW!
someone's still got shortman syndrome!

why dont YOU tell us something we don't know since you are the know it all.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Nicholas Boel
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 23 2024 03:47 pm

Hello Nick,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 10:01:41 -0600, you wrote ..

Dunno. When I asked politely this reason (And pointing out I have the source code for the software I run), was just given the Nothingburger replies of
"Go look it up why XP sucks" or "Anythings possible, nothing is hackproof".

I mean sure, anything is possible. However, they're not getting through unless you specifically let them. Aside from that, that "anything is possible" also goes for the latest and greatest OSes out there, too.

well this guy probably got those windows exploits that were leaked and thought he was god. Years ago, I had a test vm that didn't have anything on it and i dropped the firewall, forgot about it and got hit with crypto.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to T.J. Mcmillen on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:47:54

I use both Windows and Linux for different tasks...

I'm curious, what is it you do with Linux you can't/won't do in Windows, and vice versa.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to T.J. Mcmillen on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:53:56

you aren't entirely save because of obscurity.

Or safe.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:55:51

people were holding onto xp for so long so microsoft kept sending some updates for quite some time.

Heh, I'm like that. I'll squeeze every last bit out of an OS before upgrading. Usually, that means using third-party virus blockers until even they stop supporting that versio.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

To: Mortar M.
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Mortar M. to Jas Hud on Sun Nov 24 2024 12:07 am

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to T.J. Mcmillen on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:53:56

you aren't entirely save because of obscurity.

yeah that was a typo. sometimes i type the wrong words in.
maybe i'm becoming senile.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: Mortar M.
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Mortar M. to Jas Hud on Sun Nov 24 2024 12:14 am

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:55:51

people were holding onto xp for so long so microsoft kept sending some updates for quite some time.

Heh, I'm like that. I'll squeeze every last bit out of an OS before upgrading. Usually, that means using third-party virus blockers until even they stop supporting that versio.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

well my processor is on the win 11 blacklist. i've looked it up and i have
the tech to meet their requirements but it's still on that list.

i'm not hitting any walls now. i download a game and i can play it. i need to encode video and it does it fast. If i want to login someplace and say how bad d'bridge is, I don't have any issues.

I'm not going to upgrade my older computer because i don't need to. I've got the money to just swap out a processor and a coworker offered to sell me a nice one for 69 bucks, but I don't feel like it. I'd rather do something else.
I'm lazy or i'm focused on something else. I know windows 10 has been around a long time but I'm old and for me it doesn't feel like a long time.

furthermore, windows 11 doesn't really excite me. I don't need it yet, and back when i was hesitant to switch from xp I found ways to get updates and ways to secure my system. I might have to do that again or maybe by then i'll have a newer computer at that time.

Anyways, back to the subject. If i were to recommend an Os to run bbs software on, in the short term i'd say run a vm with windows 10 32bit. If the sysop wants to be around for a while they should probably run a linux vm and use dosemu. I suggest running a vm because it makes backing up so easy.

I'm pretty sure i've been running my bbses in vms for over 10 years, and
using a commercial host for much longer than that. since i started doing things this way i have had very little problems.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hello Dan,

On Sat, Nov 23 2024 16:06:45 -0600, you wrote ..

I'm not 100% sure, as I don't use Windows and have only the info I
read (some of it on BBSes), but.... isn't there something called "NTVDM<something>" that allows modern Windows (64-bit Win 10/11) to
run old 16-bit (DOS) software? I'm fairly certain many Sysops are
doing that, and running any/all software they want to.

As far as I know, NTVDM is the 32bit version, and works decent. NTVDM64
is the 64bit version and it seems there's all sorts of problems with it
(as it needs some kind of crutch or hackery to still run 16bit
applications - and even then it's iffy whether it will work or not).

Maybe some day that'll work better, but at the moment it's still
recommended to use 32bit Windows if you plan on running door games or
other 16bit applications.

I would imagine things would be fine if one were to run one of the more up-to-date BBS softwares that at least have a 32bit version, on 64bit
Windows if you just used DoorParty, BBSLink, or whatever other hosted
door servers are out there. So there is definitely some options..

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Hello Mortar,

On Sun, Nov 24 2024 00:05:27 -0600, you wrote ..

I use both Windows and Linux for different tasks...

I'm curious, what is it you do with Linux you can't/won't do in
Windows, and vice versa.

It's not really about what I can and can't/won't do with either of the
two. I could probably go Linux full time and not be phased in the
slightest, aside from gaming. I just choose not to at this time.

I have a server machine running ESXi, with 3 Linux VMs (hosts all of my servers) and a Windows XP VM (I installed to tinker with old BBS
softwares). Then I have two desktops that I built for gaming (one was
handed down to my son when I built the next one) that run Windows (10 on
one, 11 on the other). I also have Virtualbox installed on my Windows 11 machine that has a couple Linux distros installed on it just to check
out some of the new offerings in desktop environments (these get added
and deleted often).

So again, reiterating my first paragraph, it's just personal choice,
really. While Linux gaming is getting better all the time, most of the
latest and greatest games to choose from aren't offered there just yet. Hopefully, some day they will be which would probably be the last straw
of keeping Windows around, for me at least.

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Nick Andre wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Is it the emails with the picture of a super-scary-Matrix-hacker-in-a-hoodie with the zeroes and ones in the background?

Or the ones with the big stupid shield icon and 22-point fonts?

I swear cybersecurity companies are as bad or worse as the malware
itself.

The latter. I'm surprised that a virus hasn't been traced to an
anti-virus company. Great way to increase market share...



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Nicholas Boel wrote to All <=-

How could you possibly be hacked on port 23, running a BBS, aside from having some kind of backdoor in the software you're answering with
(which you don't, so it's basically impossible without gaining sysop access)?

If that's all you do on the box, no one's going to pop it - you're
right. I used my BBS as a way to goof off when I was at work - I used Famatech's remote admin software to remote in, and read my home email,
browsed the web and used it like a desktop. I ran XP, then did the hack
to get patches for embedded XP, then bit the bullet and moved to Windows
10 when that support ended.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Mortar M. wrote to Nicholas Boel <=-

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to T.J. Mcmillen on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:47:54

I use both Windows and Linux for different tasks...

I'm curious, what is it you do with Linux you can't/won't do in
Windows, and vice versa.

Whenever I did a Linux desktop exercise at work, the developers loved
it, some old guy in finance had an excel macro that only ran in Excel
2000 that the company relies on (and I could never get Excel working in
WINE)




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Kurt Weiske to Nick Andre on Sun Nov 24 2024 09:07 am

I swear cybersecurity companies are as bad or worse as the malware itself.

The latter. I'm surprised that a virus hasn't been traced to an
anti-virus company. Great way to increase market share...

they sell your data.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Mortar M. on Sun Nov 24 2024 01:36:53

well my processor is on the win 11 blacklist. i've looked it up and i have the tech to meet their requirements but it's still on that list.

Don't let that stop you. It's possible to run 11 on non-approved CPUs. There are numerous articles/videos on how it's done.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Nicholas Boel wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I'm not 100% sure, as I don't use Windows and have only the info I
read (some of it on BBSes), but.... isn't there something called "NTVDM<something>" that allows modern Windows (64-bit Win 10/11) to
run old 16-bit (DOS) software? I'm fairly certain many Sysops are
doing that, and running any/all software they want to.

As far as I know, NTVDM is the 32bit version, and works decent. NTVDM64
is the 64bit version and it seems there's all sorts of problems with it (as it needs some kind of crutch or hackery to still run 16bit applications - and even then it's iffy whether it will work or not).

Ahhh, OK, I thought only 64bit needed that, and that it had been
smoothed up enough to work well.

Maybe some day that'll work better, but at the moment it's still recommended to use 32bit Windows if you plan on running door games or other 16bit applications.

Yes, I see that advice a lot. Of course, "use Linux" is another viable answer/recommendation. :-)

I would imagine things would be fine if one were to run one of the more up-to-date BBS softwares that at least have a 32bit version, on 64bit Windows if you just used DoorParty, BBSLink, or whatever other hosted
door servers are out there. So there is definitely some options..

Sure, the remote game servers make the whole issue a moot point. I have
a couple of those running here, but also quite a few local doors, which
seems to be more in the "traditional" BBS spirit. ;-)



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hello Dan!

24 Nov 24 18:41, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Yes, I see that advice a lot. Of course, "use Linux" is another
viable answer/recommendation. :-)

There's a substantial learning curve involved with BBSAing and Linux some sysops may not want to bother with. However, even though it took me a while to catch on, my Slackware-based system has been nothing but reliable. I even have actual off-site backups working correctly via rsync.net and AWS S3. Both cheap and reliable backup solutions.

-- Sean

... My other computer is a Timex/Sinclair 1000.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

To: Mortar M.
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Mortar M. to Jas Hud on Sun Nov 24 2024 04:56 pm

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Mortar M. on Sun Nov 24 2024 01:36:53

well my processor is on the win 11 blacklist. i've looked it up and i have the tech to meet their requirements but it's still on that list.

Don't let that stop you. It's possible to run 11 on non-approved CPUs. There are numerous articles/videos on how it's done.

yeah i've seen that. i think i'd have a target on my back for windows update to come by and nuke the os.

I think my next computer will be one of those mini ones with a little
bit of muscle. I don't really need much and i only use my computer for
watching tv and movies and telling everyone online what a shit retard program d'bridge is.

i'll probably get something like this https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-Gaming-Windows-Pro-USB3-2/dp/B0DCVRTSLH?
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Sean Dennis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Yes, I see that advice a lot. Of course, "use Linux" is another
viable answer/recommendation. :-)

There's a substantial learning curve involved with BBSAing and Linux
some sysops may not want to bother with.

Absolutely true, and completely agree.

However, even though it took
me a while to catch on, my Slackware-based system has been nothing but reliable. I even have actual off-site backups working correctly via rsync.net and AWS S3. Both cheap and reliable backup solutions.

Things run on Slackware here, too, and have for a LONG time. I have
similar backup configurations, all automated, validated, and reliable.

I do understand how folks are reluctant to make a switch from Windows to Linux. It's a big jump, with a LOT of learning needed. For many (most, even), it's not worth it. I'm glad I did it many years ago, when Linux
was even harder to learn about, but Windows wasn't completely
intertwined into everything I do. ;-)



... Honk if you love BBSing!
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hello Jas!

25 Nov 24 00:44, you wrote to Mortar M.:

watching tv and movies and telling everyone online what a shit retard program d'bridge is.

And you wonder why you lost access to Micronet.

Stop it, now.

TL;DR: Act your age, not your shoe size.

Sean
BBS_CARNIVAL Co-Moderator

... "He that would have fruit must climb the tree." - Thomas Fuller
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Hello Dan!

25 Nov 24 08:23, you wrote to me:

Things run on Slackware here, too, and have for a LONG time. I have similar backup configurations, all automated, validated, and reliable.

Except when I think I'm smart and start breaking things...

I do understand how folks are reluctant to make a switch from Windows
to Linux. It's a big jump, with a LOT of learning needed. For many (most, even), it's not worth it. I'm glad I did it many years ago,
when Linux was even harder to learn about, but Windows wasn't
completely intertwined into everything I do. ;-)

I'll be honest: if I was going to do it all over now, I'd just shut the BBS down and run as a point. However, over the years it took me to do what I want, I'm glad I did it as it helped me learn Linux and BSD. I learned a lot that does serve me well now but I'm at the point to where I am done experimenting. I remember trying to compile Slackware Linux's kernel in 2000 from scratch on my P3/933 and it took hours upon hours then configuring the system (I'm looking at you, X...). If Windows didn't enforce forced obsolsence (sp), I'd still be using Windows 2000 Professional.

On a side note, my parents will be using computers with Slackware installed soon as they basically only use Firefox and Thunderbird for everything. My mom needs more programs than my dad as she is the finance arm of their household but they were never fans of Windows anyway.

BBSing has always been a niche hobby even when it was more mainstream. While we all enjoy discussing the hobby's halcyon days, I also don't feel that there is a "one size fits all" solution and every BBS is different and a labor of love for its sysop.

-- Sean
(who is still sick and waxing poetic under the influence of Nyquil)

... Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Sean Dennis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Things run on Slackware here, too, and have for a LONG time. I have similar backup configurations, all automated, validated, and reliable.

Except when I think I'm smart and start breaking things...

Hahaha! Don't do that! :-)

I do understand how folks are reluctant to make a switch from Windows
to Linux. It's a big jump, with a LOT of learning needed. For many (most, even), it's not worth it. I'm glad I did it many years ago,
when Linux was even harder to learn about, but Windows wasn't
completely intertwined into everything I do. ;-)

I'll be honest: if I was going to do it all over now, I'd just shut the BBS down and run as a point. However, over the years it took me to do what I want, I'm glad I did it as it helped me learn Linux and BSD. I learned a lot that does serve me well now but I'm at the point to where
I am done experimenting. I remember trying to compile Slackware
Linux's kernel in 2000 from scratch on my P3/933 and it took hours upon hours then configuring the system (I'm looking at you, X...). If
Windows didn't enforce forced obsolsence (sp), I'd still be using
Windows 2000 Professional.

The last Windows I really used was XP, and somewhere around 2002 I
switched to Linux full time. Mandrake was my first daily driver, and
then around 2004 I went to Slackware for everything. I actually dabbled
with Slack first in 1998 but didn't do too much with it at that time. I
had run my BBS (PCBoard software that I paid for) back in 93-96, on
MSDOS of course. Was active duty Navy at that time and when I had to
transfer the BBS came to an end (as they all were generally around that
time) as the internet emerged. I continued full time with Linux though,
and finally in 2018 re-birthed my BBS (Synchronet now), on Linux. I
also remember the joy/pain of compiling Slack kernels back in the early 2000's, and having to edit X-Windows config files (remember
"modelines"?). Ugh. I don't bother with it any more either.

On a side note, my parents will be using computers with Slackware installed soon as they basically only use Firefox and Thunderbird for everything. My mom needs more programs than my dad as she is the
finance arm of their household but they were never fans of Windows
anyway.

Excellent idea, and likely no virus worries from them either.

BBSing has always been a niche hobby even when it was more mainstream. While we all enjoy discussing the hobby's halcyon days, I also don't
feel that there is a "one size fits all" solution and every BBS is different and a labor of love for its sysop.

100% agree.

-- Sean
(who is still sick and waxing poetic under the influence of Nyquil)

Hope you feel good soon, and thanks for the good convo!

Dan



... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

On 24 Nov 2024, Sean Dennis said the following...

Hello Dan!

24 Nov 24 18:41, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Yes, I see that advice a lot. Of course, "use Linux" is another viable answer/recommendation. :-)

To be honest, you should check out Linux Mint. If you are using it on a desktop, it has the look and feel of Windows, with a Linux core. It is based on Debian/Ubuntu and is extremely good.

I use Mint for development, and I use Slack15 for servers. Slackware is much more difficult to learn but well worth it.

Everyone is hung up on Windows to play doors and while that is true, its only a small part of the BBS experience. You can always use Linux, and then use Door game servers for your door games. Truth is with doors, you can do all this work to host them, and then have 1 player. Its just not worth it. Run whatever OS you want, whatever BBS software you want, and use a BBS Door Game server and still offer a better experience. I get the fun is setting it up, but it gets old..

-Nugax
The ByteXchange BBS

... What hair color do they put on the driver's licenses of bald men?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The ByteXchange BBS | bbs.thebytexchange.com (1:19/37)

To: Mortar M.
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations By: Mortar M. to Jas Hud on Sun
Nov 24 2024 12:14 am

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations By: Jas Hud to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 23 2024 14:55:51

people were holding onto xp for so long so microsoft kept sending

some

updates for quite some time.

Heh, I'm like that. I'll squeeze every last bit out of an OS before upgrading. Usually, that means using third-party virus blockers until

even

they stop supporting that versio.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

well my processor is on the win 11 blacklist. i've looked it up and i have the tech to meet their requirements but it's still on that list.

I can run Win11, but have no desire to do so.

i'm not hitting any walls now. i download a game and i can play it. i need to encode video and it does it fast. If i want to login someplace and say how bad d'bridge is, I don't have any issues.

Haha!

I'm not going to upgrade my older computer because i don't need to. I've got the money to just swap out a processor and a coworker offered to sell me a nice one for 69 bucks, but I don't feel like it. I'd rather do something else.
I'm lazy or i'm focused on something else. I know windows 10 has been around a long time but I'm old and for me it doesn't feel like a long time.

furthermore, windows 11 doesn't really excite me. I don't need it yet, and back when i was hesitant to switch from xp I found ways to get updates and ways to secure my system. I might have to do that again or maybe by then i'll have a newer computer at that time.

Anyways, back to the subject. If i were to recommend an Os to run bbs software on, in the short term i'd say run a vm with windows 10 32bit.
If the sysop wants to be around for a while they should probably run a linux vm and use dosemu. I suggest running a vm because it makes backing up so easy.

Doesn't work for me, running a Win32 BBS that also runs DOS doors. I tried
the Linux version of Ele, but couldn't get it to run external programs for
the life of me. If there is a way for me to run my bbs under Linux w/ Wine
and DOSEMU I'd like to know of it and would gladly switch!

I'm pretty sure i've been running my bbses in vms for over 10 years, and using a commercial host for much longer than that. since i started doing things this way i have had very little problems.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Yep, running Win10/32bit under VMWare Workstation Pro. Works pretty well! I ran XP 32 for a while, then switched to Win7/32 when XP/32 wouldn't run some newer MSVCRT stuff. When Win7 had support stopped, I moved to Win10/32bit
Pro, mostly from prompting from you. I agree with you wholeheartedly that
this is the way to run a BBS.

--
Shurato, Sysop Shurato's Heavenly Sphere (ssh, telnet, pop3, ftp,nntp,
,wss) (Ports 22,23,110,21,119,8080) (ssh login 'bbs' pass 'shsbbs').


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
---
* Origin: Shurato's Heavenly Sphere telnet://shsbbs.net (1:340/1101)

Sean Dennis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I'll be honest: if I was going to do it all over now, I'd just shut the BBS down and run as a point.

Given the traffic I'm getting, I could have been a point some time ago
- if I wasn't hubbing. Making it all work and making it look pretty has
been its own reward, though.

On a side note, my parents will be using computers with Slackware installed soon as they basically only use Firefox and Thunderbird for everything. My mom needs more programs than my dad as she is the
finance arm of their household but they were never fans of Windows
anyway.

My mom's been a Chromebook user for several years, and the simplicity
of the environment and relatively virus-free nature eliminated a lot of
potential "support calls" for me.

Chrome OS Flex looks pretty good to me, I'm currently trying to get it
to run on an old Samsung Chromebook (but they intentionally make it
difficult to run on Chromebooks so as to not cannibalize their new
market).

It's worth a look if your parents aren't technically minded and you
don't mind the google ecosystem. I'm a little worried about the future
of it, as Google has made comments that they want to move to an Android
core for the OS - and Google is good at discontinuing products with a
following.

BBSing has always been a niche hobby even when it was more mainstream. While we all enjoy discussing the hobby's halcyon days, I also don't
feel that there is a "one size fits all" solution and every BBS is different and a labor of love for its sysop.

-- Sean
(who is still sick and waxing poetic under the influence of Nyquil)

... Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Dan Clough wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

The last Windows I really used was XP, and somewhere around 2002 I switched to Linux full time. Mandrake was my first daily driver, and
then around 2004 I went to Slackware for everything.

I wish I'd done that around 2007, but back then I used my home system
for work and needed Windows. In retrospect, I should have kept Windows
on a work laptop and done Linux on my desktop. I don't remember if WINE
was around back then...



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Dan Clough wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

The last Windows I really used was XP, and somewhere around 2002 I switched to Linux full time. Mandrake was my first daily driver, and
then around 2004 I went to Slackware for everything.

I wish I'd done that around 2007, but back then I used my home system
for work and needed Windows. In retrospect, I should have kept Windows
on a work laptop and done Linux on my desktop.

Well, it's not too late... :-)

I don't remember if WINE was around back then...

I don't know if it was. I've never needed, wanted, nor used WINE
though.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Dan Clough wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I don't remember if WINE was around back then...

I don't know if it was. I've never needed, wanted, nor used WINE
though.

I did just fine with AbiWord and Libreoffice, never had a need for
Microsoft Office on Linux - nor could I ever get it working well.

Photoshop was my one hold-out. I'm a photographer, and I could never get
the hang of GIMP. It ran nicely under WINE when I needed it on my
laptop.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Chad Adams wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

To be honest, you should check out Linux Mint. If you are using it on a desktop, it has the look and feel of Windows, with a Linux core. It is based on Debian/Ubuntu and is extremely good.

I have used Linux Mint before. However, I am no fan of systemd and that
killed any interest for me right there.

I use Mint for development, and I use Slack15 for servers. Slackware is much more difficult to learn but well worth it.

Slackware is the most "UNIX-like" and the one Linux distro I like best. It
was very easy for me to jump over to FreeBSD from using Slackware. I've dabbled in many Linux distros over the past 24 years but I keep coming back
to Slackware.

Everyone is hung up on Windows to play doors and while that is true,
its only a small part of the BBS experience. You can always use Linux,
and then use Door game servers for your door games. Truth is with
doors, you can do all this work to host them, and then have 1 player.
Its just not worth it. Run whatever OS you want, whatever BBS software
you want, and use a BBS Door Game server and still offer a better experience. I get the fun is setting it up, but it gets old..

I don't need to use "door game servers" as I can run DOS doors just fine
using DOSemu. Doors are not my primary concern anyway as people mainly call for messages and files. I have one 84-year-old caller that's been calling
my board for 20 years. I don't care that I get a bunch of callers as that's not why I run a BBS.

The main reason I still run a board is for my enjoyment, not anyone else's these days. In the grand scheme of things, I have several other hobbies
that bring me joy also but I am just not ready to yet. I have the framework
in place where if I decided to quit it all tomorrow, Micronet would
continue on just fine without me as would my BBS software.

I'm not at that point yet and I don't know if I ever will be. My BBS runs
very nicely now; it's very stable and has not crashed once on its own. It works for me and I'm happy with it.

I could write a "door game server" using socat, a bash script, and DOSemu (it's
surprisingly very easy to do) if that's what I wanted and be done with it.
But my happy memories of BBSing's halcyon days of calling local boards are
one of the reasons why I still choose to run a hardware-based BBS stillo
even in this "modern" age.

-- Sean




... "To be happy, make other people happy." -- W. Clement Stone
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Hello Kurt,

On Wed, Nov 27 2024 08:52:01 -0600, you wrote ..

I did just fine with AbiWord and Libreoffice, never had a need for
Microsoft Office on Linux - nor could I ever get it working well.

While I still run Windows 11 on my desktop, I also have LibreOffice
installed on it, because piss on MS Office or any of their crap that
makes you login to it. :)

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Hello Nicholas!

27 Nov 24 18:01, you wrote to Kurt Weiske:

While I still run Windows 11 on my desktop, I also have LibreOffice installed on it, because piss on MS Office or any of their crap that
makes you login to it. :)

I like ONLYOFFICE as it seems to have better compatibility with MS files than LO.

I'm a treasurer for a local ham radio club and I share a lot of Word documents and Excel spreadsheets with Office usaers without issue.

https://www.onlyoffice.com/download-desktop.aspx

-- Sean

... Confession is good for the soul but bad for your career.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Given the traffic I'm getting, I could have been a point some time ago
- if I wasn't hubbing. Making it all work and making it look pretty
has been its own reward, though.

I've been running Micronet for 24 years now and it'd be hard to just get up
and walk away.

Chrome OS Flex looks pretty good to me, I'm currently trying to get it
to run on an old Samsung Chromebook (but they intentionally make it
difficult to run on Chromebooks so as to not cannibalize their new
market).

I know I can force Linux to run a chromebook but it's pointless when I can
pick up decent spec'd off-lease laptop for well under $200 online and I can just slap Linux on it. I have a slipstreamed ISO of W11 that bypassess all
of those silly meaningless checks that can get it running on all sorts of machines.

I used to use Tiger Direct but due to them being bought out and available
only to registered businesses, I quit using them. Recently I discovered Discount Computer Depot (https://discountcomputerdepot.com/) and they have
all sorts of great deals on a huge variety of system types.

Of course, there's always eBay.

-- Sean

... "The important thing is never to stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I don't remember if WINE was around back then...

I don't know if it was. I've never needed, wanted, nor used WINE
though.

I did just fine with AbiWord and Libreoffice, never had a need for Microsoft Office on Linux - nor could I ever get it working well.

Photoshop was my one hold-out. I'm a photographer, and I could never
get the hang of GIMP. It ran nicely under WINE when I needed it on my laptop.

Yes, I've heard that about Photoshop, it's hard to compete with when it
comes to Linux "equivalents". I've also struggled with GIMP over the
years, even just for casual use. I believe it is quite powerful once
it's "mastered", but have never had enough need for it to be motivated
to learn it. I suspect it will continue that way. ;-)



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

To: Nicholas Boel
Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 27 2024 06:01 pm

While I still run Windows 11 on my desktop, I also have LibreOffice installed on it, because piss on MS Office or any of their crap that
makes you login to it. :)

at home i use microsoft office 2002 aka office xp.
I don't do anything fancy at home so i prefer this version.
there's no stupid graphics or effects or logging in.

let me know if you want a copy.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hello Sean,

On Wed, Nov 27 2024 20:01:32 -0600, you wrote ..

I like ONLYOFFICE as it seems to have better compatibility with MS
files than LO.

I'm a treasurer for a local ham radio club and I share a lot of Word documents and Excel spreadsheets with Office usaers without issue.

https://www.onlyoffice.com/download-desktop.aspx

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a try on my phone first, since I
definitely need a replacement for all of the Office 365 crap that came
with it, and can never view anything on there because I refuse to create
an MS account and login to an app to view a PDF. :)

Otherwise, I haven't had any issues with LibreOffice as far as opening documents on Win11 so far, but maybe I'm just lucky and they don't
really come around often.. usually just when the kid's school sends
something over for us to sign (field trips, sports signups/fees, etc).
Still, always on the lookout for stuff that works better!

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Hello Dan,

On Wed, Nov 27 2024 23:00:06 -0600, you wrote ..

Yes, I've heard that about Photoshop, it's hard to compete with when it
comes to Linux "equivalents". I've also struggled with GIMP over the
years, even just for casual use. I believe it is quite powerful once
it's "mastered", but have never had enough need for it to be motivated
to learn it. I suspect it will continue that way. ;-)

This has actually been one of the biggest deal breakers for many people
for as long as I can remember in the world of Linux. Many have even
chose to dual boot /just/ so they can have Photoshop.

I wonder why, after all these years they haven't just made and support a
Linux version of it. Unless they have some exclusivity with Microsoft or something or there's differences in how they make people pay for it.

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Nicholas Boel wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Yes, I've heard that about Photoshop, it's hard to compete with when it comes to Linux "equivalents". I've also struggled with GIMP over the
years, even just for casual use. I believe it is quite powerful once
it's "mastered", but have never had enough need for it to be motivated
to learn it. I suspect it will continue that way. ;-)

This has actually been one of the biggest deal breakers for many people for as long as I can remember in the world of Linux. Many have even
chose to dual boot /just/ so they can have Photoshop.

Yep, I have heard/seen that too. In extreme cases it might even cause
some to not bother with Linux at all because of the extra hassle.

I wonder why, after all these years they haven't just made and support
a Linux version of it. Unless they have some exclusivity with Microsoft
or something or there's differences in how they make people pay for it.

I think they believe that there is not enough of an "audience" out there
to use it, and therefore make them money. Although many of us love and
use Linux daily, it still is not a huge player in the world of desktop commercial software.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.22-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

discovered Discount Computer Depot (https://discountcomputerdepot.com/) and they have all sorts of great deals on a huge variety of system
types.

I've never seen that site - interesting, they have some nice Lenovo USFF
PCs for around $100. I have 32 GB of DDR4 RAM from a dead laptop and an
i7-4790 CPU in an unused desktop I could throw into one of those to make
a nice homelab server for under $100.



... Are there sections? Consider transitions
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Nicholas Boel wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I wonder why, after all these years they haven't just made and support
a Linux version of it. Unless they have some exclusivity with Microsoft
or something or there's differences in how they make people pay for it.

They used to have Photoshop for SGI boxes running IRIX. IRIX was mostly
SYS V UNIX, I'm surprised that some ingenious soul hasn't gotten bored
and created a way to emulate IRIX "enough" to run it.

Although, they were MIPS machines. Different architecture.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/1)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Nicholas Boel to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 28 2024 05:45 am

I wonder why, after all these years they haven't just made and support a Linux version of it. Unless they have some exclusivity with Microsoft or something or there's differences in how they make people pay for it.

1. Adobe has a web version of Photoshop that works on any modern platform
2. There isn't a big market for Linux desktop users
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #73:
SyncTERM (created by Deuce) contains portions of Synchronet and SEXYZ code Norco, CA WX: 68.3°F, 22.0% humidity, 6 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Dan Clough to Sean Dennis on Mon Nov 25 2024 15:26:24

I also remember the joy/pain of compiling Slack kernels back in the early 2000's, and having to edit X-Windows config files...

Slackware was my first exposure to Linux. Got it on a Walnet Creek CD in the early '90s. The version I had was strictly command line level, everything had to be configured through config files and IIR, little documentation. I gave up on it pretty quick. I don't think I gave it another shot until Red Hat came out, which included X Windows.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Hello Rob,

On Thu, Nov 28 2024 13:21:55 -0600, you wrote ..

1. Adobe has a web version of Photoshop that works on any modern
platform

Well there you have it. That's probably why I haven't seen that excuse
used in some time now.

2. There isn't a big market for Linux desktop users

Especially in the proprietary software category of Linux desktop users,
up to and including adding pricing on their software in a realm of
mostly free software as well as alternative(s) to their product.

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)

Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Sean Dennis to Nicholas Boel on Wed Nov 27 2024 21:01:32

I like ONLYOFFICE as it seems to have better compatibility with MS files than LO.

That depends on the complexity of the Word doc. For your garden-variety document (text and images), I've had no problems. If the Word doc contains macros, imbedded spreadsheets/graphs, linked data, etc., then you could run into issues, it various on the actual content.

Unless you can afford a few hundred bucks, LibreOffice (FREE!) is the better choice.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

Re: Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Sean Dennis to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 27 2024 23:39:38

Of course, there's always eBay.

Aw Hell no! You could be buying someone else's problems.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

that's news to me. i unplugged form micronet.

when are you going to get your mouth off of nick andre's dick? is it because he provides you free hosting?
fuck off
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

To: sean dennis
Re: BBS Software Recommendations
By: Jas Hud to Sean Dennis on Thu Nov 28 2024 09:56 pm

that's news to me. i unplugged form micronet.

when are you going to get your mouth off of nick andre's dick? is it because he provides you free hosting?
fuck off

i apologize from my lack of quoting. i did it on the web and clicked too fast.

anyways haven't used micronet since like last summer, i deleted it from
my msg bases. wasn't informed of anything.

I put on a block in twitlist denn~ (to block another user) so i did not see anything from sean dennis,
not that you posted much on your own network.

Most of the time you were either in the hospital or spending your time on those creepy anime twitch shows all the time.

But yeah, you let Andre take shots and then only complained when I made shots back. Whatever, don't care. and you can quit acting like you care. You don't care about your own network or bbsing.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hello Nicholas!

28 Nov 24 05:40, you wrote to me:

Still, always on the lookout for stuff that works better!

I found ONLYOFFICE by accident quite literally during a Google search. Haven't had any issues with it yet.

-- Sean

... Next time, give the gift that keeps on giving: a female kitten.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Hello Kurt!

28 Nov 24 08:11, you wrote to me:

I've never seen that site - interesting, they have some nice Lenovo
USFF PCs for around $100. I have 32 GB of DDR4 RAM from a dead laptop
and an i7-4790 CPU in an unused desktop I could throw into one of
those to make a nice homelab server for under $100.

I found them through an Instagram ad. They have a lot of good deal on all sorts of satuff at random tiumes (usually when I don't have the money, hah).

-- Sean

... Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Hello Mortar!

28 Nov 24 18:48, you wrote to me:

That depends on the complexity of the Word doc. For your
garden-variety document (text and images), I've had no problems. If
the Word doc contains macros, imbedded spreadsheets/graphs, linked
data, etc., then you could run into issues, it various on the actual content.

True.

Unless you can afford a few hundred bucks, LibreOffice (FREE!) is the better choice.

You can get legal one-shot Office keys for cheap at gamers-outlet.net. Office 2024 Pro Plus is $33.36. Office 2021 Pro Plus is $7.23.

I have never, ever paid full price for Office professionally or personally.

LO has choked on damn near every Word doc I have given it so I dumped it years ago. OpenOffice, for me, was more compatible than LO. Then I discovered OPENOFFICE. But 9 times out of 10, I run Word docs through a .docx to markdown converter to read if it's for my use only.

-- Sean

... "Thanks a thousand." - Nelson Rockefeller
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Hello Mortar!

28 Nov 24 19:02, you wrote to me:

Aw Hell no! You could be buying someone else's problems.

I've had good success on eBay when buying computer equipment. Been on there for 23 years and haven't been burnt once.

-- Sean

... I used to be addicted to soap but I'm clean now.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

when are you going to get your mouth off of nick andre's dick? is it because he provides you free hosting?

I don't use hosting. Unlike you, I run everything on real iron at home because I know what I'm doing. I don't need anyone to do it for me like you, Mr. "I'm a hobbyist so I know better than the IT experts".

Find someone who cares. We certainly don't.

-- Sean

... Open mouth, insert foot, echo globally.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

But yeah, you let Andre take shots and then only complained when I
made shots back. Whatever, don't care. and you can quit acting like
you care. You don't care about your own network or bbsing.

Are you trying to bait me? It's not working. I know the truth and so does everyone else. You start shittalking the fidonet Z1c and several RCs who all are IT professionals, unlike you, Mr "I'm a hobbyist and I know more than you do". You were proven constantly wrong and your ego just couldn't take it. I don't care because I know you're just bloviating for attention. You might have been funny 20 years ago buit you';re an adult now, time to act like it.

You make a fool out of yourself everywhere and you wonder why no one likes you.

Go cry me a river somewhere else. No one wants you around here.

GoldEd+ has an excellent twit filter. Your new home here.

-- Sean

... Things that must work together, can't be carried to the field that way.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)