People parking their vehicles in Norwich City Centre can't pay using
the 'App', as there is 'variable' connectivity.
OOps.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mp4vdy3ngo
On Sun 14/12/2025 09:18, Davey wrote:
People parking their vehicles in Norwich City Centre can't pay using
the 'App', as there is 'variable' connectivity.
OOps.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mp4vdy3ngo
The problem is probably due to the terrain. Norwich is quite hilly
and if you get near the top of such a location your phone may either
try to contact the 'wrong' site or just have too many signals (even co-channel interference) to be able to select a good site. The
strongest signal nay not be the best signal for the phone to use.*
The other side of the coin is that in such areas it is still quite
common to use directional aerials at the base site, but the control
channels are often on omni aerials. Ergo the phone picks a particular control channel but when the systems allocates a different radio
frequency it may be on an aerial that the phone cannot hear and the
call fails. Orange were beggars for that years ago!
Having said that, if the phone is using SMS for payment it should
work as SMS is carried on the control channel. If it uses an app then
it is a different matter altogether.
*I am a retired mobile comms eng and I used to go to a Police radio
site not far from here that stood on what might be called a
flat-topped knoll.. You could make calls from any of the roads around
it, but go to the site and try to make a call and it was almost 100% guaranteed to fail.
The other side of the coin is that in such areas it is still quite
common to use directional aerials at the base site, but the control
channels are often on omni aerials. Ergo the phone picks a particular control channel but when the systems allocates a different radio
frequency it may be on an aerial that the phone cannot hear and the call fails. Orange were beggars for that years ago!
The other side of the coin is that in such areas it is still quite
common to use directional aerials at the base site, but the control
channels are often on omni aerials. Ergo the phone picks a particular
control channel but when the systems allocates a different radio
frequency it may be on an aerial that the phone cannot hear and the
call fails. Orange were beggars for that years ago!
Are you suggesting that "control channels" use a different antenna ?
And when you have explained that, some clarification of the meaning of
"an aerial that the phone cannot hear" might be helpful
Yes. Omni aerials are in effect a suitable piece of vertical wire that radiates in every direction equally. On most sites this is the type of aerial used for the control channels.'
The original concept of cellular was that the base station site (BTS)
should be in the middle of the cell but this of course is very
inefficient, so the cell was sectored and aerials with 120deg radiation became the norm.
your direction are fully occupied then your call might be 'dumped' onto
one of the other aerials pointing in a different sector and your call
thus fails.
mobile, your mobile will may well hear the BTS but the BTS cannot
reliably talk to your mobile which is at much lower power.)
This is not now so much of a problem as BTS' are these days tend to be placed (where possible) at the junction point of three cells, and except
in largely rural areas cells are now much smaller so there is a good
chance that your call can be handled successfully from another site
covering part of the same cell if necessary.
Yes. Omni aerials are in effect a suitable piece of vertical wire that
radiates in every direction equally. On most sites this is the type of
aerial used for the control channels.'
so ... are you saying that sectorised sites have an additional omni
antenna just for the "control signal" ?
(btw - omni antennae are not all vertical)
The original concept of cellular was that the base station site (BTS)
should be in the middle of the cell but this of course is very
inefficient, so the cell was sectored and aerials with 120deg
radiation became the norm.
Whats so inefficient about having a BTS located in a cell centre ?
Sectorised sites became the "norm" in order to increase capacity, and
sector antennae are often deployed on buildings or structures which are
too tall for sensible coverage - in most cases omni antennae can only be deployed at the top of the structure. Also, mechanical downtilt is not
an option with an omni
If you are a distance from the BTS and the resources in
your direction are fully occupied then your call might be 'dumped'
onto one of the other aerials pointing in a different sector and your
call thus fails.
so what is the purpose of the handover candidate list ? (bearing in mind that the handover is initiated by the MS)
(Actually as the BTS power is rather higher than your
mobile, your mobile will may well hear the BTS but the BTS cannot
reliably talk to your mobile which is at much lower power.)
This is not now so much of a problem as BTS' are these days tend to be
placed (where possible) at the junction point of three cells, and
except in largely rural areas cells are now much smaller so there is a
good chance that your call can be handled successfully from another
site covering part of the same cell if necessary.
Still no-a clarification of the meaning of "an aerial that the phone
cannot hear"
On 15/12/2025 09:16, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
Yes. Omni aerials are in effect a suitable piece of vertical wire
that radiates in every direction equally. On most sites this is the
type of aerial used for the control channels.'
so ... are you saying that sectorised sites have an additional omni
antenna just for the "control signal" ?
(btw - omni antennae are not all vertical)
The original concept of cellular was that the base station site (BTS)
should be in the middle of the cell but this of course is very
inefficient, so the cell was sectored and aerials with 120deg
radiation became the norm.
Whats so inefficient about having a BTS located in a cell centre ?
Sectorised sites became the "norm" in order to increase capacity, and
sector antennae are often deployed on buildings or structures which
are too tall for sensible coverage - in most cases omni antennae can
only be deployed at the top of the structure. Also, mechanical
downtilt is not an option with an omni
If you are a distance from the BTS and the resources in
your direction are fully occupied then your call might be 'dumped'
onto one of the other aerials pointing in a different sector and your
call thus fails.
so what is the purpose of the handover candidate list ? (bearing in
mind that the handover is initiated by the MS)
(Actually as the BTS power is rather higher than your
mobile, your mobile will may well hear the BTS but the BTS cannot
reliably talk to your mobile which is at much lower power.)
This is not now so much of a problem as BTS' are these days tend to
be placed (where possible) at the junction point of three cells, and
except in largely rural areas cells are now much smaller so there is
a good chance that your call can be handled successfully from another
site covering part of the same cell if necessary.
Still no-a clarification of the meaning of "an aerial that the phone
cannot hear"
also-a ... since when has Norwich been "quite hilly" ?
https://en-gb.topographic-map.com/map-v7l6m2/East-Anglia/?center=52.39572%2C0.69214
Most of the City can't see Tacolneston TV transmitter about 10miles
away; there's a relay on Mousehold Heath.
Not hilly in absolute terms, but quite a bit of undulation.
James
Most of the City can't see Tacolneston TV transmitter about 10miles
away; there's a relay on Mousehold Heath.
Not hilly in absolute terms, but quite a bit of undulation.
James
Do you know the antenna height at Tacolneston ?
I think the issue is much of Norwich is in a dip.-a Relay station covers most of the central area.-a When I lived in the city, it was still
analogue days, but our aerial was 3 storeys up and could get Dutch
stations quite reliably (lots of football!) https://ukfree.tv/ transmitters/tv/Norwich_Central
James
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 54 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 03:15:43 |
| Calls: | 743 |
| Files: | 1,218 |
| Messages: | 188,321 |