All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't scheduled to have it UHFO. Fortunately, I don't stream much TV, but for those advocates of losing broadcast TV in favour of a fixed connection
while they're still copper-connected, beware!
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't scheduled to have it UHFO.
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't
scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next year.
On 2025/12/4 12:56:24, Jeff Layman wrote:
[]
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but weI hadn't come across UHFO before; definite <grin> when I worked it
aren't scheduled to have it UHFO. Fortunately, I don't stream much
TV, but for those advocates of losing broadcast TV in favour of a
fixed connection while they're still copper-connected, beware!
out!
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 13:56:51 +0000 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:
On 2025/12/4 12:56:24, Jeff Layman wrote:You mean it doesn't stand for United Health And Financial Organization?
[]
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but weI hadn't come across UHFO before; definite <grin> when I worked it out!
aren't scheduled to have it UHFO. Fortunately, I don't stream much
TV, but for those advocates of losing broadcast TV in favour of a
fixed connection while they're still copper-connected, beware!
There is a town called Hell in Michigan, there are numerous photos of
the town sign with icicles hanging from it. It's not all that far from Climax, Michigan.
A friend of mine cycled to Hell (in Norway):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oCdi1Br4ryjiT4PS9
On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 17:33:34 +0000, Davey wrote:[]
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 13:56:51 +0000 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:
In several Germanic languages, it just means light (e. g. hellblau isI hadn't come across UHFO before; definite <grin> when I worked it out!You mean it doesn't stand for United Health And Financial Organization?
<g>
There is a town called Hell in Michigan, there are numerous photos of
the town sign with icicles hanging from it. It's not all that far from>> Climax, Michigan.
A friend of mine cycled to Hell (in Norway):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oCdi1Br4ryjiT4PS9
On 04/12/2025 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't
scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have fibre >> ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next year.
All the poles along my road have 'Overhead fibre' warnings, probably for
the main exchange connection to the local exchange, decades ago. No FTTP
for us yet, and the cabinets are half way to the local exchange from us.
Openreach have been around a lot the past week, usually 4 vans at a time
around one pole but occasionally 8 vans and a cherry picker for 2 poles. >Computer says "WerCOll be building in this area in the next year".
I hadn't come across UHFO before; definite <grin> when I worked it out!
On 04/12/2025 13:56, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
I hadn't come across UHFO before; definite <grin> when I worked it
out!
Googles says it probably means Ultra High Frequency Oscillator!
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't
scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have
fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next
year.
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home phone
service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do with FTTP of course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to add the area code
to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding various things (caller display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most of which I can already do
with my DECT phone.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this instead
of FTTP!
Jeff Layman wrote:
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home
phone service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do
with FTTP of course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to
add the area code to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding
various things (caller display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most
of which I can already do with my DECT phone.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this
instead of FTTP!
It feels as though the majority of people are giving up on having a
home phone as well as a mobile?
I still like a bit of resilience, which has been reduced by the
POTS->VoIP switch, and ought to increase a little with the FTTC->FTTP switch, though I do have a UPS.
I still like a bit of resilience, which has been reduced by the
POTS->VoIP switch, and ought to increase a little with the FTTC->FTTP
switch, though I do have a UPS.
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Davey wrote:
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Got a cheapo plug-in tester? Could it be crossed live/neutral?
Davey wrote:
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Got a cheapo plug-in tester? Could it be crossed live/neutral?
On 04/12/2025 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't
scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have
fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next
year.
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home phone
service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do with FTTP of
course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to add the area code
to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding various things (caller display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most of which I can already do
with my DECT phone.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this instead
of FTTP!
On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:53:22 +0000Have you tried the Eaton (I assume that's the UPS) on other sockets in
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Got a cheapo plug-in tester? Could it be crossed live/neutral?
I unearthed <g> my DMM, and opened up the wall socket. CB in the CU
kills power OK. Two red wires to the terminal marked 'L', two black
wires to the terminal marked 'N', two green wires to one of the two
terminals marked 'E' and the earth symbol. All looked good. Then
measuring volts: L-N:241. L-E:241. N-E:0.
I'm not sure what else I can do. The Eaton still won't run. My PC setup> and the fridge-freezer all run fine, powered from this socket.
Roll on electrician! Maybe I'll send Eaton a message, asking for help diagnosing what it's complaining about.
On 2025/12/6 9:30:57, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/12/2025 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't >>>> scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have
fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next
year.
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home phone
service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do with FTTP of
Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don't _think_ it mentions "VoIP"
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or
something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem there -
and of course the reliability will go _down_, as it now won't work if
the power is off.
course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to add the area code
to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding various things (caller
display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most of which I can already do
with my DECT phone.
Yes, I noticed the bit about having to add the area code. You'd have
thought that BT at least would have made that unnecessary. Yes,
voicemail (1571) _will_ be something I didn't have before on that line.
I was interested to read that it _won't_ work with answering machines -
why? (I don't have one, but can't see why not; I always thought they simulated a 'phone as closely as possible.)
It will actually _save_ them money - in the long run.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this instead
of FTTP!
The leaflet said I could have a free "adapter" for certain
circumstances, if I went to a certain web address. I did; it showed the "adapter" as costing about 20, but there was a "get your free adapter"
box, which I used, entering my number, and it said I could have. So I proceeded - and it wanted me to set up an account; I did (it involved
them emailing me a six-digit number, but that was OK). Then, it asked
for my mobile number, something like "so we can SMS you if there's a
problem in future" (it's obviously really setting up the account so that
EE can sell me other things in future) - and, it wouldn't let me past
that point - no possibility of not having a mobile number. I eventually
rang the number, and secured the adapters that way (well, we'll see).
Apparently, also, an "engineer" will have to call; I said I could manage
it all, but there seems no option.
The leaflet mentions a battery-backed option - in fact as _I_ read it,
it _implies_ you will get such; however, in my discussion, it seems it's _only_ for those with either telemonitoring equipment, or vulnerable in
other ways.
On 2025/12/7 11:51:56, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:53:22 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Got a cheapo plug-in tester? Could it be crossed live/neutral?
I unearthed <g> my DMM, and opened up the wall socket. CB in the CU
kills power OK. Two red wires to the terminal marked 'L', two black
wires to the terminal marked 'N', two green wires to one of the two terminals marked 'E' and the earth symbol. All looked good. Then
measuring volts: L-N:241. L-E:241. N-E:0.
I'm not sure what else I can do. The Eaton still won't run. My PC
setup and the fridge-freezer all run fine, powered from this
socket.
Have you tried the Eaton (I assume that's the UPS) on other sockets in
the house, and it works OK? If so, can you check (with power off of
course) the live/neutral connectivity between the "OK" sockets and the
"not OK" one(s)? (I'm assuming only one phase in the house.)
Roll on electrician! Maybe I'll send Eaton a message, asking forHow does it not run - does it just have a light (or display) that says
help diagnosing what it's complaining about.
socket fault, or is there more? (It doesn't have a serial port, or
wifi connectivity, or such, through which it can explain itself?
On 2025/12/7 11:51:56, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:53:22 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
I have just bought (a non-APC) UPS for my PC setup,
which would include my router. But I can't use it yet, because it
detects a wiring fault with the wall socket
Got a cheapo plug-in tester? Could it be crossed live/neutral?
I unearthed <g> my DMM, and opened up the wall socket. CB in the CU
kills power OK. Two red wires to the terminal marked 'L', two black
wires to the terminal marked 'N', two green wires to one of the two terminals marked 'E' and the earth symbol. All looked good. Then
measuring volts: L-N:241. L-E:241. N-E:0.
I'm not sure what else I can do. The Eaton still won't run. My PC
setup and the fridge-freezer all run fine, powered from this
socket.
Have you tried the Eaton (I assume that's the UPS) on other sockets in
the house, and it works OK? If so, can you check (with power off of
course) the live/neutral connectivity between the "OK" sockets and the
"not OK" one(s)? (I'm assuming only one phase in the house.)
Roll on electrician! Maybe I'll send Eaton a message, asking forHow does it not run - does it just have a light (or display) that says
help diagnosing what it's complaining about.
socket fault, or is there more? (It doesn't have a serial port, or
wifi connectivity, or such, through which it can explain itself?
On 07/12/2025 12:08, J. P. Gilliver wrote:You've made me get off my a* and retrieve the letter :-)
On 2025/12/6 9:30:57, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/12/2025 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't >>>>> scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have
fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next >>>> year.
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home phone
service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do with FTTP of
Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don't _think_ it mentions "VoIP"
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or
something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem there -
and of course the reliability will go _down_, as it now won't work if
the power is off.
course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to add the area code
to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding various things (caller >>> display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most of which I can already do>>> with my DECT phone.
Yes, I noticed the bit about having to add the area code. You'd have
thought that BT at least would have made that unnecessary. Yes,
voicemail (1571) _will_ be something I didn't have before on that line.
I was interested to read that it _won't_ work with answering machines -
why? (I don't have one, but can't see why not; I always thought they
simulated a 'phone as closely as possible.)
I think we're talking about two different letters here. There's nothing
in mine about an answering machine not working. Mine isn't about VOIP
(or FTTP requiring an ONT), and all changes will be done by an engineer
at the exchange.
I have read that a DECT built-in answerphone probably won't work because
of the delay involved in the router's voicemail facility (see first line
of reply here: <https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/DECT-phone-and-VOIP/m-p/1478191/highlight/true#M108284>).
I know that my FRITZ!box router has a voicemail facility so will
probably use that when the time comes.
[]It will actually _save_ them money - in the long run.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this instead >>> of FTTP!
The leaflet mentions a battery-backed option - in fact as _I_ read it,>> it _implies_ you will get such; however, in my discussion, it seems it's
_only_ for those with either telemonitoring equipment, or vulnerable in
other ways.
Yes, it'll be supplied free if you meet certain requirements; if not,
you'll have to buy a UPS.
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes red/green/red/green<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups---emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
ad infinitum.
On 2025/12/7 13:3:33, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 07/12/2025 12:08, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/12/6 9:30:57, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/12/2025 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don't _think_ it mentions "VoIP"
Jeff Layman wrote:
All around where I live there are new estates with FTTP, but we aren't >>>>>> scheduled to have it UHFO.
There's two new roads tacked-on the end of this estate and those have >>>>> fibre ... so it goes past my house ... They say we should get FTTP next >>>>> year.
Funnily enough, I had a letter from BT yesterday that "my home phone
service is about to get a whole lot better". Nothing to do with FTTP of >>>
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or
something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem there -
and of course the reliability will go _down_, as it now won't work if
the power is off.
course, just a change at the exchange so I'll have to add the area code >>>> to numbers; I do that already. And they're adding various things (caller >>>> display, voicemail, call protect, etc) most of which I can already do
with my DECT phone.
Yes, I noticed the bit about having to add the area code. You'd have
thought that BT at least would have made that unnecessary. Yes,
voicemail (1571) _will_ be something I didn't have before on that line.
I was interested to read that it _won't_ work with answering machines -
why? (I don't have one, but can't see why not; I always thought they
simulated a 'phone as closely as possible.)
I think we're talking about two different letters here. There's nothing
in mine about an answering machine not working. Mine isn't about VOIP
(or FTTP requiring an ONT), and all changes will be done by an engineer
at the exchange.
You've made me get off my a* and retrieve the letter :-)
Standard BT envelope, containing an A4 sheet folded in two, and an A5
leaflet (also in practice an A4 sheet folded in two). The first is in
the form of a letter, headed "Important upgrade to your home phone
service". It starts
"Hello,
Good news! We're now upgrading you to Digital Voice, our new home phone service."
I remembered right, neither the letter nor the leaflet mentions VoIP
anywhere - they keep calling it Digital Voice. The letter (mine is dated "November 2025") says (in tiny print at the bottom back) PHME 1389; the (colour) leaflet is PHME 1390v1.
I have read that a DECT built-in answerphone probably won't work becauseThe leaflet says "No, you won't be able to use a standalone answer
of the delay involved in the router's voicemail facility (see first line
of reply here:
<https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/DECT-phone-and-VOIP/m-p/1478191/highlight/true#M108284>).
I know that my FRITZ!box router has a voicemail facility so will
probably use that when the time comes.
machine, but you will have free BT Voicemail to record messages. Just
dial 1571 to hear them." (No mention of _why_ such won't work, but from
the general tone, I wasn't expecting any such explanation.)
It will actually _save_ them money - in the long run.
Seems to me it's adding insult to injury that they're doing this instead >>>> of FTTP!
[]
The leaflet:The leaflet mentions a battery-backed option - in fact as _I_ read it,
it _implies_ you will get such; however, in my discussion, it seems it's >>> _only_ for those with either telemonitoring equipment, or vulnerable in
other ways.
Yes, it'll be supplied free if you meet certain requirements; if not,
you'll have to buy a UPS.
"What if there's a power cut?
If there's a power cut or your broadband's down, you won't be able to
make calls using Digital Voice, including 999 calls.
You could still use a mobile, which you should always keep charged.
But for additional peace of mind, we'll send you a battery backup device
- free of charge - ahead of your engineer visit."
No mention there of needing to satisfy anything.
Davey wrote:
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups---emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio alarm
beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed the. UPS
capacity or Battery fault."
Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don'tthink it mentions "VoIP"
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or
something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem there
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don'tthink it mentions "VoIP"
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem
there
They've got to phrase everything as "progress" ...
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:53:57 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups---emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio alarm
beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed the. UPS
capacity or Battery fault."
That's not exactly my unit, a 3S, but I expect the strategy is similar.
I don't hear a beep. There are no connected loads yet, so that isn't
the problem. Battery Fault, on a unit that has only been plugged in and charged, seems the probable fault, but why? The manual for mine only
mentions Green or Red lights, but not together. And I know that the
socket is not at fault.
I will be contacting Eaton. I know I should send it back to Amazon, but
Eaton might have some other insight before I do that.
Thanks for help.
On 07/12/2025 14:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/12/7 13:3:33, Jeff Layman wrote:
I think we're talking about two different letters here. There's nothing
in mine about an answering machine not working. Mine isn't about VOIP
(or FTTP requiring an ONT), and all changes will be done by an engineer
at the exchange.
You've made me get off my a* and retrieve the letter :-)
Standard BT envelope, containing an A4 sheet folded in two, and an A5
leaflet (also in practice an A4 sheet folded in two). The first is in
the form of a letter, headed "Important upgrade to your home phone
service". It starts
"Hello,
Good news! We're now upgrading you to Digital Voice, our new home phone
service."
Nothing about Digital Voice on my letter.
I remembered right, neither the letter nor the leaflet mentions VoIP
anywhere - they keep calling it Digital Voice. The letter (mine is dated
"November 2025") says (in tiny print at the bottom back) PHME 1389; the
(colour) leaflet is PHME 1390v1.
My cover letter is PHME1277. I can't see anything like PHME1277v1 on the leaflet, but is is a very dark colour!
The leaflet:The leaflet mentions a battery-backed option - in fact as _I_ read it, >>>> it _implies_ you will get such; however, in my discussion, it seems it's >>>> _only_ for those with either telemonitoring equipment, or vulnerable in >>>> other ways.
Yes, it'll be supplied free if you meet certain requirements; if not,
you'll have to buy a UPS.
"What if there's a power cut?
If there's a power cut or your broadband's down, you won't be able to
make calls using Digital Voice, including 999 calls.
You could still use a mobile, which you should always keep charged.
But for additional peace of mind, we'll send you a battery backup device
- free of charge - ahead of your engineer visit."
No mention there of needing to satisfy anything.
This thread might be of relevance: <https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Digital/How-does-one-get-a-free-battery-backup-when-applying-for-full/td-p/2334176>
On 2025/12/7 16:30:31, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:53:57 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups---emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio
alarm beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed the.
UPS capacity or Battery fault."
That's not exactly my unit, a 3S, but I expect the strategy is
similar. I don't hear a beep. There are no connected loads yet, so
that isn't the problem. Battery Fault, on a unit that has only been
plugged in and charged, seems the probable fault, but why? The
manual for mine only mentions Green or Red lights, but not
together. And I know that the socket is not at fault.
I will be contacting Eaton. I know I should send it back to Amazon,
but Eaton might have some other insight before I do that.
Thanks for help.Have you tried with a light load (such as a light!)? I could imagine
some such units might not be happy with _no_ load - or, at least,
might get themselves into some condition they cannot recover from if
not loaded.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 17:35:27 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes, I've had it too at one address. I don'tthink it mentions "VoIP"
at all. It mentions an improvement in "reliability and quality", or
something like that. Well, the quality has never been a problem
there
They've got to phrase everything as "progress" ...
It sounds like all those computer programme 'Updates' that take ages to
sort out to resume operations again.
1. "has become outdated and needs to be replaced" - subjective.
2. "All UK providers are undertaking" - PlusNet for one isn't (a
subsidiary of BT!).
3. "a very straightforward upgrade" - why an engineer then? Good that
they're sending one, but if it's "straightforward", should be optional
(but when I rang for my adapters, I asked, and no, you can't do without
the engineer visit).
4a and b. "enhance the quality of your service." I've never had any
problem with its quality, and obviously the reliability will go _down_.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 22:52:11 +0000 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:
On 2025/12/7 16:30:31, Davey wrote:I can give it a try, although I would expect it to sit there with no
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:53:57 +0000 Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>Have you tried with a light load (such as a light!)? I could imagine
wrote:
Davey wrote:That's not exactly my unit, a 3S, but I expect the strategy is
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups- surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups--- emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio alarm
beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed the.
UPS capacity or Battery fault."
similar. I don't hear a beep. There are no connected loads yet, so
that isn't the problem. Battery Fault, on a unit that has only been
plugged in and charged, seems the probable fault, but why? The manual
for mine only mentions Green or Red lights, but not together. And I
know that the socket is not at fault.
I will be contacting Eaton. I know I should send it back to Amazon,
but Eaton might have some other insight before I do that.
Thanks for help.
some such units might not be happy with _no_ load - or, at least, might
get themselves into some condition they cannot recover from if not
loaded.
load quite happily. The APC does.
On Sun, 07 Dec 2025 23:30:47 +0000, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
1. "has become outdated and needs to be replaced" - subjective.
2. "All UK providers are undertaking" - PlusNet for one isn't (a
subsidiary of BT!).
3. "a very straightforward upgrade" - why an engineer then? Good that
they're sending one, but if it's "straightforward", should be optional
(but when I rang for my adapters, I asked, and no, you can't do without
the engineer visit).
4a and b. "enhance the quality of your service." I've never had any
problem with its quality, and obviously the reliability will go _down_.
I am so glad that I moved to VoIP only, about 12 years ago!
I got a vast number of hits which discussed *business* advantages, but couldn't find one which specifically referred to home advantages.
I also wonder, with the almost universal availability of mobile phone
usage, if VoIP is a solution looking for a problem. What advantages, for example, does VoIP have over a mobile phone?
On 08/12/2025 00:36, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2025 23:30:47 +0000, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
1. "has become outdated and needs to be replaced" - subjective.
2. "All UK providers are undertaking" - PlusNet for one isn't (a
subsidiary of BT!).
3. "a very straightforward upgrade" - why an engineer then? Good
that they're sending one, but if it's "straightforward", should be
optional (but when I rang for my adapters, I asked, and no, you
can't do without the engineer visit).
4a and b. "enhance the quality of your service." I've never had any
problem with its quality, and obviously the reliability will go
_down_.
I am so glad that I moved to VoIP only, about 12 years ago!
Why? I can see that VoIP can have an advantage for business users
over POTS, but for most home users I can see definite disadvantages, especially for those who require reliability and, for example, a
connection for emergency use. When I did an internet search on:
voip advantage analogue
I got a vast number of hits which discussed *business* advantages,
but couldn't find one which specifically referred to home advantages.
I also wonder, with the almost universal availability of mobile phone
usage, if VoIP is a solution looking for a problem. What advantages,
for example, does VoIP have over a mobile phone?
You might find it strange that as the OP for this thread I am
criticising the move to digital. Well, as I mentioned in my OP, "I
should say that there has never been a voice problem - the line has
always been loud and clear with no clicks, etc". So for over three
months /if/ I had had VoIP instead of analogue, not only would I have
had internet connection problems, but making simple voice calls would
not have been possible as well. Fortunately, I was able to use my
mobile phone as a hotspot when the broadband connection went down, so
in a way I should repeat here the final sentence of the paragraph
above.
On 2025/12/7 16:30:31, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:53:57 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups---emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio
alarm beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed the.
UPS capacity or Battery fault."
That's not exactly my unit, a 3S, but I expect the strategy is
similar. I don't hear a beep. There are no connected loads yet, so
that isn't the problem. Battery Fault, on a unit that has only been
plugged in and charged, seems the probable fault, but why? The
manual for mine only mentions Green or Red lights, but not
together. And I know that the socket is not at fault.
I will be contacting Eaton. I know I should send it back to Amazon,
but Eaton might have some other insight before I do that.
Thanks for help.Have you tried with a light load (such as a light!)? I could imagine
some such units might not be happy with _no_ load - or, at least,
might get themselves into some condition they cannot recover from if
not loaded.
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:03:05 +0000
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2025 00:36, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2025 23:30:47 +0000, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
1. "has become outdated and needs to be replaced" - subjective.
2. "All UK providers are undertaking" - PlusNet for one isn't (a
subsidiary of BT!).
3. "a very straightforward upgrade" - why an engineer then? Good
that they're sending one, but if it's "straightforward", should be
optional (but when I rang for my adapters, I asked, and no, you
can't do without the engineer visit).
4a and b. "enhance the quality of your service." I've never had any
problem with its quality, and obviously the reliability will go
_down_.
I am so glad that I moved to VoIP only, about 12 years ago!
Why? I can see that VoIP can have an advantage for business users
over POTS, but for most home users I can see definite disadvantages,
especially for those who require reliability and, for example, a
connection for emergency use. When I did an internet search on:
voip advantage analogue
I got a vast number of hits which discussed *business* advantages,
but couldn't find one which specifically referred to home advantages.
I also wonder, with the almost universal availability of mobile phone
usage, if VoIP is a solution looking for a problem. What advantages,
for example, does VoIP have over a mobile phone?
You might find it strange that as the OP for this thread I am
criticising the move to digital. Well, as I mentioned in my OP, "I
should say that there has never been a voice problem - the line has
always been loud and clear with no clicks, etc". So for over three
months /if/ I had had VoIP instead of analogue, not only would I have
had internet connection problems, but making simple voice calls would
not have been possible as well. Fortunately, I was able to use my
mobile phone as a hotspot when the broadband connection went down, so
in a way I should repeat here the final sentence of the paragraph
above.
When I transferred my landline over to Zen's SOGEA Digital Voice, I
could not receive calls from several of my neighbours, on the same
exchange.I could call them, but not the reverse. Zen investigated, and
BT found a problem in one of their cabinets. I didn't investigate
further, as it was then working.
So, 'improvement in reliability' proved to be a lie from the very start.
But that's in isolation. Over fibre you have no choice, it's digital voice or nothing. The copper is too decrepit and costly to keep going (in aggregate, over decade timescales), especially for the tiny voice revenue. Doing nothing is not an option.It's one of the many cases where the universal obligation doesn't gel
Theo
I am so glad that I moved to VoIP only, about 12 years ago!
Why? I can see that VoIP can have an advantage for business users over
POTS, but for most home users I can see definite disadvantages,
especially for those who require reliability and, for example, a
connection for emergency use.
I am so glad that I moved to VoIP only, about 12 years ago!
Why? I can see that VoIP can have an advantage for business users
Yes, Bob's comment after I'd detailed the _dis_advantages puzzled me
too!
On Sun, 07 Dec 2025 23:22:45 +0000, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 22:52:11 +0000 "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/7 16:30:31, Davey wrote:I can give it a try, although I would expect it to sit there with no
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:53:57 +0000 Andy BurnsHave you tried with a light load (such as a light!)? I could
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:That's not exactly my unit, a 3S, but I expect the strategy is
Instead of the 'I'm happy' green light, it flashes<https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-
red/green/red/green ad infinitum.
surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton_5e_ups/eaton-5e-ups--- emea/eaton-dpq-5egen2-ups-manual-en-gb.pdf>
"Green/Red LED alternative flashes every 0.5 second and audio
alarm beeps every 1.5 second. The connected loads are exceed
the. UPS capacity or Battery fault."
similar. I don't hear a beep. There are no connected loads yet,
so that isn't the problem. Battery Fault, on a unit that has
only been plugged in and charged, seems the probable fault, but
why? The manual for mine only mentions Green or Red lights, but
not together. And I know that the socket is not at fault.
I will be contacting Eaton. I know I should send it back to
Amazon, but Eaton might have some other insight before I do that.
Thanks for help.
imagine some such units might not be happy with _no_ load - or, at
least, might get themselves into some condition they cannot
recover from if not loaded.
load quite happily. The APC does.
What happens if you start it standalone (not plugged into the mains)?
If it then starts, it's a wiring fault. If it doesn't, it's probably
a battery fault.
If that works OK, and it's a wiring fault, is there a good earth
connection via the mains?
In uk.telecom.voip Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I got a vast number of hits which discussed *business* advantages, but
couldn't find one which specifically referred to home advantages.
I also wonder, with the almost universal availability of mobile phone
usage, if VoIP is a solution looking for a problem. What advantages, for
example, does VoIP have over a mobile phone?
Most domestic users run their 'landlines' in a basic way, so the flexibilty of VOIP is not something they would take much advantage of. Even less so, when substantially eroded by the limitations of BT/etc's digital voice product. The simplicity of POTS is to its advantage.
But that's in isolation. Over fibre you have no choice, it's digital voice or nothing. The copper is too decrepit and costly to keep going (in aggregate, over decade timescales), especially for the tiny voice revenue. Doing nothing is not an option.
The only problem I've ever had with VoIP is when the physical line broke - which would have killed POTS too.
I also wonder, with the almost universal availability of mobile phone
usage, if VoIP is a solution looking for a problem. What advantages, for example, does VoIP have over a mobile phone?
As to reliability, VoIP is really only any good in conjunction withYou keep saying this, clearly your own experience, but for those of us
FTTP.-a Anything that involves VDSL or ADSL in conjunction with SOGEA is extremely silly.-a The slightest break in the broadband service (from a nearby lightning strike, farmer's electric fence, or Christmas tree
lights) will mean that the router re-negotiates its connection - taking
a couple of minutes -
On 08/12/2025 13:11, Graham J wrote:
As to reliability, VoIP is really only any good in conjunction withYou keep saying this, clearly your own experience, but for those of us
FTTP.-a Anything that involves VDSL or ADSL in conjunction with SOGEA
is extremely silly.-a The slightest break in the broadband service
(from a nearby lightning strike, farmer's electric fence, or Christmas
tree lights) will mean that the router re-negotiates its connection -
taking a couple of minutes -
that live in a suburban or urban environment close to the cabinet, I can
go for MONTHS without a single glitch on my VDSL connection.
On 08/12/2025 13:11, Graham J wrote:
As to reliability, VoIP is really only any good in conjunction withYou keep saying this, clearly your own experience, but for those of us
FTTP.a Anything that involves VDSL or ADSL in conjunction with SOGEA is
extremely silly.a The slightest break in the broadband service (from a
nearby lightning strike, farmer's electric fence, or Christmas tree
lights) will mean that the router re-negotiates its connection - taking
a couple of minutes -
that live in a suburban or urban environment close to the cabinet, I can
go for MONTHS without a single glitch on my VDSL connection.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 16:50:36 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:
On 08/12/2025 13:11, Graham J wrote:
As to reliability, VoIP is really only any good in conjunction withYou keep saying this, clearly your own experience, but for those of us
FTTP.-a Anything that involves VDSL or ADSL in conjunction with SOGEA is >>> extremely silly.-a The slightest break in the broadband service (from a
nearby lightning strike, farmer's electric fence, or Christmas tree
lights) will mean that the router re-negotiates its connection - taking
a couple of minutes -
that live in a suburban or urban environment close to the cabinet, I can
go for MONTHS without a single glitch on my VDSL connection.
I don't think I've EVER had a fault on my ADSL and VDSL connections.
Can't remember the date I moved from ISDN to 0.5Mb with Bulldog but it
was probably about the millenium.
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My telephone
had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died altogether, but the
ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still both working. I put
this down to the wonders of error correction. The fault turned out to be
in the copper wire connections on the outside of the house.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:27:57 +0000, Richmond wrote:
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My
telephone had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died
altogether, but the ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still
both working. I put this down to the wonders of error correction. The
fault turned out to be in the copper wire connections on the outside of
the house.
ADSL will work with only one pair, but be warned, VDSL will not :)
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:32:43 +1000, noel wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:27:57 +0000, Richmond wrote:
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My
telephone had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died
altogether, but the ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still
both working. I put this down to the wonders of error correction. The
fault turned out to be in the copper wire connections on the outside of
the house.
ADSL will work with only one pair, but be warned, VDSL will not :)
errrrr I mean with one of the pair
On 22/12/2025 06:48, noel wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:32:43 +1000, noel wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:27:57 +0000, Richmond wrote:
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My
telephone had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died
altogether, but the ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still
both working. I put this down to the wonders of error correction. The
fault turned out to be in the copper wire connections on the outside of >>>> the house.
ADSL will work with only one pair, but be warned, VDSL will not :)
errrrr I mean with one of the pair
Whilst you all tell me that copper is great, on a number of occasions it
has let me down and taken a long time to fix...
... its valuable, so a target for theives. So when we I was a student we lost access remote computer access as someone had nicked the copper...
Not great, but at least it was only one pair, well two I think it was a 4-wire leased circuit..
Dave
Whilst you all tell me that copper is great, on a number of occasions it
has let me down and taken a long time to fix...
... its valuable, so a target for theives.
I was told that we have aluminium not copper wiring back to the cabinet which is about 250 m away.-a This must have been installed in the 1970s or 80s when this area was developed, and might have seemed a good idea at the time.-a But it seems to corrode more easily when water gets in to the cable ducts, and we've had several faults eventually fixed by some OpenReach technician finding an alternative pair that seems to work at least temporarily.-a-a But when I mentioned that we had aluminium cables, one of them told me "you are not supposed to know that"!-a Is that a widespread problem - I have no idea?
I don't think I've EVER had a fault on my ADSL and VDSL connections.
Can't remember the date I moved from ISDN to 0.5Mb with Bulldog but it
was probably about the millenium.
David Wade wrote:
Whilst you all tell me that copper is great, on a number of occasions
it has let me down and taken a long time to fix...
... its valuable, so a target for theives.
Do you think the thieves have learned yet the difference between copper
and fibre?
On 22/12/2025 09:05, David Wade wrote:
On 22/12/2025 06:48, noel wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:32:43 +1000, noel wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:27:57 +0000, Richmond wrote:
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My
telephone had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died
altogether, but the ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still >>>>> both working. I put this down to the wonders of error correction. The >>>>> fault turned out to be in the copper wire connections on the
outside of
the house.
ADSL will work with only one pair, but be warned, VDSL will not :)
errrrr I mean with one of the pair
Whilst you all tell me that copper is great, on a number of occasions
it has let me down and taken a long time to fix...
... its valuable, so a target for theives. So when we I was a student
we lost access remote computer access as someone had nicked the copper...
Not great, but at least it was only one pair, well two I think it was
a 4-wire leased circuit..
Dave
I was told that we have aluminium not copper wiring back to the cabinet which is about 250 m away.-a This must have been installed in the 1970s
or 80s when this area was developed, and might have seemed a good idea
at the time.-a But it seems to corrode more easily when water gets in to
the cable ducts, and we've had several faults eventually fixed by some OpenReach technician finding an alternative pair that seems to work at
least temporarily.-a-a But when I mentioned that we had aluminium cables, one of them told me "you are not supposed to know that"!-a Is that a widespread problem - I have no idea?
I guess we'll go for fibre to the premises sometime next year, but I'm
not looking forward to the disruption.
I don't think I've EVER had a fault on my ADSL and VDSL connections.
On 22/12/2025 10:31, Clive Page wrote:
On 22/12/2025 09:05, David Wade wrote:
On 22/12/2025 06:48, noel wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:32:43 +1000, noel wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:27:57 +0000, Richmond wrote:
Anecdotal evidence isn't much on its own, but here is mine: My
telephone had a lot of interference on it, and eventually died
altogether, but the ADSL internet, and VOIP with Voipfone were still >>>>>> both working. I put this down to the wonders of error correction. The >>>>>> fault turned out to be in the copper wire connections on the
outside of
the house.
ADSL will work with only one pair, but be warned, VDSL will not :)
errrrr I mean with one of the pair
Whilst you all tell me that copper is great, on a number of occasions
it has let me down and taken a long time to fix...
... its valuable, so a target for theives. So when we I was a student
we lost access remote computer access as someone had nicked the
copper...
Not great, but at least it was only one pair, well two I think it was
a 4-wire leased circuit..
Dave
I was told that we have aluminium not copper wiring back to the
cabinet which is about 250 m away.-a This must have been installed in
the 1970s or 80s when this area was developed, and might have seemed a
good idea at the time.-a But it seems to corrode more easily when water
gets in to the cable ducts, and we've had several faults eventually
fixed by some OpenReach technician finding an alternative pair that
seems to work at least temporarily.-a-a But when I mentioned that we had
aluminium cables, one of them told me "you are not supposed to know
that"!-a Is that a widespread problem - I have no idea?
Figures from searches suggest that 15% of the network is aluminium, typically from installs in the late 1970s early 1980s.
I guess we'll go for fibre to the premises sometime next year, but I'm
not looking forward to the disruption.
If you stick with BT or EE there will be little disruption even if you retain a "landline" number. Their box autoconfigures and you can plug
any existing devices into its "pots" socket. If you disconnect the BT
line (If you had copper they would probably re-claim the copper, but I
don't think they bother with ali) you can patch the router across into
any house wiring.
Dave
If you drop your "landline" no disruption for most with any ISP.
Unfortunately we are with Plusnet, who don't do landlines in their fibre offering.-a So have to decide whether we really need to retain the
landline or not.-a If we do, I gather it's possible to switch to using EE who do support landlines.
Trolleybus wrote:
I don't think I've EVER had a fault on my ADSL and VDSL connections.
I didn't have faults with ADSL1, when it was upgraded to ADSL2+ I
started getting multiple line drops per day, since upgrading to VDSL it
has been rock solid (even remaining up during thunder storms).
None of which means I won't take FTTP as soon as it becomes available
I could do a FTTP upgrade at home (wont cost me
anything anyway) but for what
noel wrote:
I could do a FTTP upgrade at home (wont cost me anything anyway) but
for what
Not relying on batteries in a roadside cabinet?
the node's batteries depleted after 6.5 hours - apparently
those on fibre also went dark at same time
Clive Page wrote:
Unfortunately we are with Plusnet, who don't do landlines in their
fibre offering.-a So have to decide whether we really need to retain
the landline or not.-a If we do, I gather it's possible to switch to
using EE who do support landlines.
It's also possible to switch from Plusnet FTTC to Plusnet SOGEA, and
then port the released PSTN number to a.n.other VoIP provider, such
as voipfone. You might be without the landline for a few days, and
you will lose the ability to send/receive SMS on DECT phones.
My Zen SOGEA line will accept SMS messages on my DECT 'phones, but not
send them. So I can receive the strange 100mph voice interpretations of various confirmation codes, but I can't send anything SMS.
My VoIP service (from Voipfone) receives SMS messages and reads them to me.
Davey wrote:
[snip]
My Zen SOGEA line will accept SMS messages on my DECT 'phones, but not>> send them. So I can receive the strange 100mph voice interpretations of
various confirmation codes, but I can't send anything SMS.
My VoIP service (from Voipfone) receives SMS messages and reads them to
me. But the hardware, either desk phones or handsets, has a small
screen and could in principle display such messages. But Voipfone tell
me this isn't possible. Anybody care to speculate why this is?
maybe the handsets-receiving-SMS
uses (used) special tones that don't pass uncorrupted through the CoDecs
VoIP uses. In much the same way as fax machines, and analog MoDems,
don't work reliably through anything where the voice signal is encoded/decoded, other than BT's original CoDec.
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
maybe the handsets-receiving-SMS
uses (used) special tones that don't pass uncorrupted through the CoDecs
VoIP uses. In much the same way as fax machines, and analog MoDems,
don't work reliably through anything where the voice signal is
encoded/decoded, other than BT's original CoDec.
I think the fixed line sms service operated using 1200baud modem tones
(like CLI) after a voltage reversal on the line, but they're killing it
off ...
<https://www.bt.com/help/landline/set-up-and-use-bt-text>
noel wrote:
the node's batteries depleted after 6.5 hours - apparently those on
fibre also went dark at same time
Does the telco in your country use GPON, or some other fibre technology?
Andy Burns wrote:
noel wrote:
the node's batteries depleted after 6.5 hours - apparently those on
fibre also went dark at same time
Does the telco in your country use GPON, or some other fibre technology?
gpon and pockets of ng-pon2
On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 11:05:35 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
maybe the handsets-receiving-SMS
uses (used) special tones that don't pass uncorrupted through the CoDecs >>> VoIP uses. In much the same way as fax machines, and analog MoDems,
don't work reliably through anything where the voice signal is
encoded/decoded, other than BT's original CoDec.
I think the fixed line sms service operated using 1200baud modem tones
(like CLI) after a voltage reversal on the line, but they're killing it
off ...
<https://www.bt.com/help/landline/set-up-and-use-bt-text>
Yes, they use FSK encoding. A compatible handset recogises the calling address and stores the message appropiately.
Do those tones work through the CoDecs used on VoIP?
(Does the system sending them even bother trying if the number is on
VoIP, assuming it "knows" that fact?)
On 2025/12/24 10:5:3, Trolleybus wrote:I don't know but doubt it.
On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 11:05:35 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
maybe the handsets-receiving-SMS
uses (used) special tones that don't pass uncorrupted through the CoDecs >>>> VoIP uses. In much the same way as fax machines, and analog MoDems,
don't work reliably through anything where the voice signal is
encoded/decoded, other than BT's original CoDec.
I think the fixed line sms service operated using 1200baud modem tones
(like CLI) after a voltage reversal on the line, but they're killing it >>> off ...
<https://www.bt.com/help/landline/set-up-and-use-bt-text>
Yes, they use FSK encoding. A compatible handset recogises the calling
address and stores the message appropiately.
Do those tones work through the CoDecs used on VoIP? (Does the system
sending them even bother trying if the number is on VoIP, assuming it
"knows" that fact?)
I don't know but doubt it.
Do those tones work through the CoDecs used on VoIP? (Does the system
sending them even bother trying if the number is on VoIP, assuming it
"knows" that fact?)
Trolleybus wrote:
[snip]
I don't know but doubt it.
Do those tones work through the CoDecs used on VoIP? (Does the system
sending them even bother trying if the number is on VoIP, assuming it
"knows" that fact?)
In 2010 I set up VoIP for a client.
A few years later her elderly father who lived in a "granny annexe" connected only by Ethernet and therefore using a VoIP phone - needed a
panic alarm. So I tried one from Tunstall.
The Tunstall device didn't work through VoIP. It tried - it
continuously made calls to its mother-ship and made all the right
bleeping sounds, but never established proper communication.
Tunstall - once I found somebody who could understand the issue -
admitted that it would not work through VoIP. Worryingly they didn't
seem to have a new product in design that would work. I checked again recently, and I think that they now do.
noel wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
noel wrote:
the node's batteries depleted after 6.5 hours - apparently those on
fibre also went dark at same time
Does the telco in your country use GPON, or some other fibre
technology?
gpon and pockets of ng-pon2
I'd expect the fibre headend to have generator backup as well as battery
...
Andy Burns wrote:for BT, VDSL equipment is in over 30,000 street cabinets, GPON equipment
I'd expect the fibre headend to have generator backup as well as battery
...
ha ha if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP, they wont do it for fibre
noel wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:for BT, VDSL equipment is in over 30,000 street cabinets, GPON equipment
I'd expect the fibre headend to have generator backup as well as battery >>> ...
ha ha if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP, they wont do it for fibre
is in around 1,000 exchange buildings ...
noel wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:for BT, VDSL equipment is in over 30,000 street cabinets, GPON equipment
I'd expect the fibre headend to have generator backup as well as
battery ...
ha ha if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP, they wont do it for fibre
is in around 1,000 exchange buildings ...
ha ha if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP
On 26/12/2025 02:40, noel wrote:
ha ha-a if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP
Fibre head end sites are few in number, and can be over 10km away, but
VDSL is maybe only 100m away.-a I think the factors that affect the
ability to provide backup power are very different.
On 26/12/2025 02:40, noel wrote:
ha ha if they didn't provide it to VDSL for all those years before
moving towards FTTP
Fibre head end sites are few in number, and can be over 10km away, but
VDSL is maybe only 100m away.
I think the factors that affect the
ability to provide backup power are very different.
Not sure what current state of mobile reception is in UK, but in Aus, its next to useless if you live outside of a city or major town.
noel wrote:
[snip]
Not sure what current state of mobile reception is in UK, but in Aus,
its next to useless if you live outside of a city or major town.
Much the same. Remote locations like the Shetland Islands are very
good, I'm told, but rural areas within 100km of London are pretty poor.
The signal outdoors on high ground is usually OK, but inside a building there's often nothing.
Of course the mobile operators deny this.
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
noel wrote:
[snip]
Not sure what current state of mobile reception is in UK, but in Aus, its >>> next to useless if you live outside of a city or major town.
Much the same. Remote locations like the Shetland Islands are very
good, I'm told, but rural areas within 100km of London are pretty poor.
The signal outdoors on high ground is usually OK, but inside a building
there's often nothing.
Of course the mobile operators deny this.
For another viewpoint, I travel a lot in rural Northumberland. Mobile coverage has improved no end in the last few years. Rarely am I unable to
get a Vodafone 4G signal. Mind you, thererCOs very few folk campaigning against base station masts.
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
Your lucky, however, please correct me if i'm wrong, isn't BT still a
private company? As in not government owned? You have that luxury, our residentials being a government clusterf..k means penny pinching, however
On 26/12/2025 09:00, noel wrote:
Your lucky, however, please correct me if i'm wrong, isn't BT still
a private company? As in not government owned? You have that
luxury, our residentials being a government clusterf..k means penny pinching, however
What is your country? These are UK newsgroups, but the above only
makes sense if you are writing in a non-UK context.
On 2025/12/26 13:2:11, noel wrote:
[]
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential >> fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can
download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
No, but it will lose them some votes if voters die because they can't
make emergency calls. (I don't mean ones already registered as
vulnerable, just ordinary folk.)
However, that's probably going to have to actually happen a few times
before anything is done.
[]
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/26 13:2:11, noel wrote:
[]
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential >>> fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can >>> download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
No, but it will lose them some votes if voters die because they can't
make emergency calls. (I don't mean ones already registered as
vulnerable, just ordinary folk.)
However, that's probably going to have to actually happen a few times
before anything is done.
[]
You can already make emergency text messages via satellite with a modern iPhone. Within the next year or two voice calls via satellite will be
available for all users of modern mobile phones (uk) So the perceived need for a copper pair to the exchange to make an emergency call after a long power cut will fall away.
Anyway, if the mobile network collapses they wonrCOt be able to send you an ambulance once the current TETRA based system is turned off in favour of
the Emergency Services Network, which is largely dependent on EErCOs mobile network.
On 2025/12/27 16:53:2, Tweed wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/26 13:2:11, noel wrote:
[]
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential >>>> fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can >>>> download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
No, but it will lose them some votes if voters die because they can't
make emergency calls. (I don't mean ones already registered as
vulnerable, just ordinary folk.)
However, that's probably going to have to actually happen a few times
before anything is done.
[]
You can already make emergency text messages via satellite with a modern
iPhone. Within the next year or two voice calls via satellite will be
Remember, there are folk who don't have even a dumb mobile 'phone, let
alone a smartphone, let alone an iPhone. Folk who don't see they need
the extra expense.
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/27 16:53:2, Tweed wrote:Well they will have to rely on their neighbours or a passing stranger. Everyone having access to their own landline phone is a relatively new
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/26 13:2:11, noel wrote:
[]
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential
fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can >>>>> download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
No, but it will lose them some votes if voters die because they can't
make emergency calls. (I don't mean ones already registered as
vulnerable, just ordinary folk.)
However, that's probably going to have to actually happen a few times
before anything is done.
[]
You can already make emergency text messages via satellite with a modern >>> iPhone. Within the next year or two voice calls via satellite will be
Remember, there are folk who don't have even a dumb mobile 'phone, let
alone a smartphone, let alone an iPhone. Folk who don't see they need
the extra expense.
thing. Growing up in the 1960s, my parents had the only phone on the
street.
Ubiquitous voice access via satellite is going to be a game changer for
those in difficulty. Normal use is going to cost an extra subscription.
IrCOve not seen any rules regarding emergency calls, but I expect OfCom will mandate it to be available to any handset, just as the current terrestrial system is.
The fallout from the Australian emergency call failure revealed something I hadnrCOt really thought about. TheyrCOve switched off 3G, but crucially theyrCOve
also turned off 2G. This means to make a voice call you need a phone that
is able to use VoLTE (ie VOIP). TheyrCOve been trying to disable phones that
canrCOt do this in an attempt to get old phones off the network. In the UK we are still maintaining a residual 2G service which should allow older phones to make voice calls.
On 2025/12/28 8:46:2, Tweed wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/27 16:53:2, Tweed wrote:Well they will have to rely on their neighbours or a passing stranger.
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/26 13:2:11, noel wrote:
[]
still doesnt change how (poorly) they desgined the broadband residential
fibre, its a residential service do you think the govt cares if kids can
download their pr0n during prolonged blackouts.
No, but it will lose them some votes if voters die because they can't >>>>> make emergency calls. (I don't mean ones already registered as
vulnerable, just ordinary folk.)
However, that's probably going to have to actually happen a few times >>>>> before anything is done.
[]
You can already make emergency text messages via satellite with a modern >>>> iPhone. Within the next year or two voice calls via satellite will be
Remember, there are folk who don't have even a dumb mobile 'phone, let
alone a smartphone, let alone an iPhone. Folk who don't see they need
the extra expense.
Everyone having access to their own landline phone is a relatively new
thing. Growing up in the 1960s, my parents had the only phone on the
street.
I too grew up in the 1960s. And yes, my grandma didn't get one until the
'70s (I think when her US brother visited).
But: that _is_ 50 years ago!
And sadly "neighbours or a passing stranger" is also a societal change
since then.
Ubiquitous voice access via satellite is going to be a game changer for
those in difficulty. Normal use is going to cost an extra subscription.
I can't see that happening in the UK, except possibly for some _very_
remote areas (probably mostly Scotland, if at all). At least, not for
some time. Technically, yes, administratively/financially, no - for some decades at least.
IrCOve not seen any rules regarding emergency calls, but I expect OfCom will >> mandate it to be available to any handset, just as the current terrestrial >> system is.
I hope I'm wrong above. Have you heard some plans to give universal
satellite access in UK (at other than huge cost to the users)?
The fallout from the Australian emergency call failure revealed something I >> hadnrCOt really thought about. TheyrCOve switched off 3G, but crucially theyrCOve
also turned off 2G. This means to make a voice call you need a phone that
is able to use VoLTE (ie VOIP). TheyrCOve been trying to disable phones that
And is, presumably, 4G or above capable too.
canrCOt do this in an attempt to get old phones off the network. In the UK weAnd is fairly solid.
are still maintaining a residual 2G service which should allow older phones >> to make voice calls.
Indeed. And any amateur radio fallback almost certainly already doesn't
exist
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/28 8:46:2, Tweed wrote:
Ubiquitous voice access via satellite is going to be a game changer for
those in difficulty. Normal use is going to cost an extra subscription.
I can't see that happening in the UK, except possibly for some _very_
remote areas (probably mostly Scotland, if at all). At least, not for
some time. Technically, yes, administratively/financially, no - for some
decades at least.
IrCOve not seen any rules regarding emergency calls, but I expect OfCom will
mandate it to be available to any handset, just as the current terrestrial >>> system is.
canrCOt do this in an attempt to get old phones off the network. In the UK weAnd is fairly solid.
are still maintaining a residual 2G service which should allow older phones >>> to make voice calls.
Vodafone are signed up with ASTSpaceMobile and I believe EE and O2 are signing up with Starlink. Both systems are still in their infancy at the moment. They are starting with text messages (as per the current iPhone capability) but are likely to be offering voice and very low speed Internet in the next couple of years. Yes, you will have to pay an extra
subscription for general use but IrCOm willing to bet that they will accept emergency calls from any handset. Ofcom rules aside, I canrCOt see any mobile
network willing to accept the negative publicity of a death because a subscription had not been paid. The introduction of a full service
coincides reasonably nicely with the full withdrawal of copper landlines.
It certainly answers the need for communications should your local cell site(s) fail.
Copper landlines will go because they are increasingly uneconomic. The per
minute voice revenue that helped pay for the service has gone. Most people now rely on mobile phones and increasingly fibre broadband. They arenrCOt willing to pay for a copper pair for an emergency. So the economies of
scale for exchange fed copper pairs has vanished. Or put another way, most people arenrCOt willing to pay an extra couple of hundred pounds per year just so somebody else can make that unlikely emergency call during that unlikely prolonged power cut, which is what it boils down to. Once the
economies of scale are lost the full economic cost of an exchange fed
copper line would run into many thousands a year. I canrCOt see many willing to pay that.
On 2025/12/28 11:21:48, Tweed wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/12/28 8:46:2, Tweed wrote:
[]
Ubiquitous voice access via satellite is going to be a game changer for >>>> those in difficulty. Normal use is going to cost an extra subscription. >>>I can't see that happening in the UK, except possibly for some _very_
remote areas (probably mostly Scotland, if at all). At least, not for
some time. Technically, yes, administratively/financially, no - for some >>> decades at least.
IrCOve not seen any rules regarding emergency calls, but I expect OfCom will
mandate it to be available to any handset, just as the current terrestrial >>>> system is.
[]
canrCOt do this in an attempt to get old phones off the network. In the UK weAnd is fairly solid.
are still maintaining a residual 2G service which should allow older phones
to make voice calls.
Vodafone are signed up with ASTSpaceMobile and I believe EE and O2 are
signing up with Starlink. Both systems are still in their infancy at the
moment. They are starting with text messages (as per the current iPhone
capability) but are likely to be offering voice and very low speed Internet >> in the next couple of years. Yes, you will have to pay an extra
subscription for general use but IrCOm willing to bet that they will accept >> emergency calls from any handset. Ofcom rules aside, I canrCOt see any mobile
Yes - but that still assumes everyone will _have_ such a handset.
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