• Looking for a decent VOIP provider for a small business, 4 phones and 1 remote one

    From Postman Pat@at@the-post-office-not.com to uk.telecom on Wed Jan 7 12:19:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    This sounds trivial but for some reason it isn't.

    We have FTTP with Andrews & Arnold; been with them for some years.

    We also have a VOIP system with 5 Snom POE phones. One of these 5 is
    at my house.

    Everything is on fixed IPs.

    For the 4 phones, A&A assign four IPs. This is some sort of "managed
    PBX" which they implement on their servers. Everybody I talk to laughs
    at having four IPs for four phones :)

    A 5th IP is used for our LAN. The router is a Draytek 2960 with
    pass-through for the four phones, port 5060.

    The system has mostly worked but with frequent weird behaviour. For a
    long time, call transfers would fail. A&A tracked this down to timing
    problems on inter-server handovers. More recently, we have the whole
    "ring group" ringing but when the call is answered the other phones
    keep ringing, until somebody goes round them all and picks them up and
    puts them back down.

    If we had a lot of incoming calls, the system would be unworkable, so
    I don't understand how they get away with this. They supplied all the
    phones too.

    At home I have a "landline" with an old Panasonic 3x8 PBX and have the
    number with Voipfone.co.uk and a u50 Grandstream box. That works
    perfectly. I have enquired with Voipfone about the business stuff but
    they never replied so probably not interested.

    But clearly "going analog" with a similar setup, and four old style
    phones and an old PBX, would work great. For 30 years we had a Siemens
    ISDN phone system which was 100.000% reliable. But then how would one
    set up the 5th phone at my house which is on the same ring group?

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the
    customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of
    everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :) Well I certainly would not use say
    Vodafone (OK for a phone but a script monkey call centre in India,
    like most) but I find Voipfone OK for my home FTTP (they do FTTP as
    well as basic VOIP).

    I am all ears for any recommendations :)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom on Wed Jan 7 14:37:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On Wed 07/01/2026 12:19, Postman Pat wrote:
    This sounds trivial but for some reason it isn't.

    We have FTTP with Andrews & Arnold; been with them for some years.

    We also have a VOIP system with 5 Snom POE phones. One of these 5 is
    at my house.

    Everything is on fixed IPs.

    For the 4 phones, A&A assign four IPs. This is some sort of "managed
    PBX" which they implement on their servers. Everybody I talk to laughs
    at having four IPs for four phones :)

    A 5th IP is used for our LAN. The router is a Draytek 2960 with
    pass-through for the four phones, port 5060.

    The system has mostly worked but with frequent weird behaviour. For a
    long time, call transfers would fail. A&A tracked this down to timing problems on inter-server handovers. More recently, we have the whole
    "ring group" ringing but when the call is answered the other phones
    keep ringing, until somebody goes round them all and picks them up and
    puts them back down.

    If we had a lot of incoming calls, the system would be unworkable, so
    I don't understand how they get away with this. They supplied all the
    phones too.

    At home I have a "landline" with an old Panasonic 3x8 PBX and have the
    number with Voipfone.co.uk and a -u50 Grandstream box. That works
    perfectly. I have enquired with Voipfone about the business stuff but
    they never replied so probably not interested.

    But clearly "going analog" with a similar setup, and four old style
    phones and an old PBX, would work great. For 30 years we had a Siemens
    ISDN phone system which was 100.000% reliable. But then how would one
    set up the 5th phone at my house which is on the same ring group?

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :) Well I certainly would not use say
    Vodafone (OK for a phone but a script monkey call centre in India,
    like most) but I find Voipfone OK for my home FTTP (they do FTTP as
    well as basic VOIP).

    I am all ears for any recommendations :)


    Two in the same area:-

    Zen Internet who are based in Rochdale. 01706 902000

    FirstComEurope (started life as voip.co.uk) who are based in Bolton.
    0333 023 7000

    Sipgate, whilst not serving private users any more still do business
    users and have several advantages over some others. 020 3393 3909

    You can but ring and ask?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip on Wed Jan 7 16:32:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 2026/1/7 14:37:58, Woody wrote:
    On Wed 07/01/2026 12:19, Postman Pat wrote:

    [problems with A&A]

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the
    customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of
    everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :) Well I certainly would not use say

    Useful to know that A&A have that problem, thanks.

    []

    I am all ears for any recommendations :)


    Two in the same area:-

    Zen Internet who are based in Rochdale. 01706 902000

    FirstComEurope (started life as voip.co.uk) who are based in Bolton.
    0333 023 7000

    Sipgate, whilst not serving private users any more still do business
    users and have several advantages over some others. 020 3393 3909

    You can but ring and ask?

    Nothing to add, sorry, other than that there is a specific newsgroup,
    which I _have_ added; might be useful.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    the two unwritten rules of life:
    1.
    2.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@is.invalid to uk.telecom on Wed Jan 7 18:42:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 07/01/2026 13:19, Postman Pat wrote:


    At home I have a "landline" with an old Panasonic 3x8 PBX and have the
    number with Voipfone.co.uk and a -u50 Grandstream box. That works
    perfectly. I have enquired with Voipfone about the business stuff but
    they never replied so probably not interested.


    Bit suprised voipfone didn't reply. They have a range of business
    services. How did you contact them?

    support@voipfone.co.uk


    But clearly "going analog" with a similar setup, and four old style
    phones and an old PBX, would work great. For 30 years we had a Siemens
    ISDN phone system which was 100.000% reliable. But then how would one
    set up the 5th phone at my house which is on the same ring group?

    Well ISDN is digital and no longer available for new supply.
    well perhaps you can get it but its dead tech.


    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :) Well I certainly would not use say
    Vodafone (OK for a phone but a script monkey call centre in India,
    like most) but I find Voipfone OK for my home FTTP (they do FTTP as
    well as basic VOIP).

    I am all ears for any recommendations :)

    I would try voipfone again. Check its not gone to your spam folder.

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jkn@jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk to uk.telecom on Thu Jan 8 12:32:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom


    On 07/01/2026 12:19, Postman Pat wrote:

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :)

    FWIW I would tend to agree with this. I have recently started to use A&A
    as a VOIP provider, having finally migrated to FTTP. The people on the
    sales & support lines seem competent but almost smug; you can imagine
    them rolling their eyes, either at the other businesses whose
    incompetence they have to deal with, or the clueless (not really)
    customer on the line.

    I am certainly not saying 'don't use them', but they could do with
    paying attention to their bedside manner IMO

    J^n

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom on Thu Jan 8 13:16:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:

    On 07/01/2026 12:19, Postman Pat wrote:

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :)

    FWIW I would tend to agree with this. I have recently started to use A&A
    as a VOIP provider, having finally migrated to FTTP. The people on the
    sales & support lines seem competent but almost smug; you can imagine
    them rolling their eyes, either at the other businesses whose
    incompetence they have to deal with, or the clueless (not really)
    customer on the line.

    I am certainly not saying 'don't use them', but they could do with
    paying attention to their bedside manner IMO

    I've never had to talk to them, but I also got that impression reading their CEO's blog. Particularly with respect to dispute resolution, the attitude
    of 'we're right, why do we need to pay a pesky dispute resolution service?' seems too common:

    https://www.revk.uk/search?q=dispute

    Then there was the cunning scheme they came up with to work around Ofcom's rules about number porting, and why porting out A&A-owned numbers might be tricky:

    https://www.revk.uk/2014/03/the-new-number-tax.html

    Although I can understand a certain weariness when they have to deal with BT all day long, so in those instances maybe they are indeed always right...

    (and the above does suggest Ofcom come with similar levels of craziness)

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom on Thu Jan 8 13:36:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

    jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:

    On 07/01/2026 12:19, Postman Pat wrote:

    A&A is a good ISP but they have a serious "attitude issue" whereby the
    customer is a bit stupid. I think this is the result of many years of
    everybody in Usenet saying they are the best UK ISP for business, and
    it has gone to their heads :)

    FWIW I would tend to agree with this. I have recently started to use A&A
    as a VOIP provider, having finally migrated to FTTP. The people on the
    sales & support lines seem competent but almost smug; you can imagine
    them rolling their eyes, either at the other businesses whose
    incompetence they have to deal with, or the clueless (not really)
    customer on the line.

    I am certainly not saying 'don't use them', but they could do with
    paying attention to their bedside manner IMO

    I've never had to talk to them, but I also got that impression reading their CEO's blog. Particularly with respect to dispute resolution, the attitude
    of 'we're right, why do we need to pay a pesky dispute resolution service?' seems too common:

    https://www.revk.uk/search?q=dispute

    Then there was the cunning scheme they came up with to work around Ofcom's rules about number porting, and why porting out A&A-owned numbers might be tricky:

    https://www.revk.uk/2014/03/the-new-number-tax.html

    Although I can understand a certain weariness when they have to deal with BT all day long, so in those instances maybe they are indeed always right...

    (and the above does suggest Ofcom come with similar levels of craziness)

    Theo

    In their defence, they have a Mastodon server, which suggests they
    aren't afraid of public feedback.

    Vodafone on the other hand, shutdown their forum to focus on refusing to
    talk to people except for asking security questions.

    https://social.aa.net.uk/@aaisp
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Postman Pat@at@the-post-office-not.com to uk.telecom on Tue Jan 13 15:07:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    If one used a dedicated VOIP PBX at the office, how would one
    implement the extra one phone at a different location?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom on Tue Jan 13 15:54:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On Tue 13/01/2026 15:07, Postman Pat wrote:
    If one used a dedicated VOIP PBX at the office, how would one
    implement the extra one phone at a different location?


    The remote voip phone sits on the broadband at its location and is
    programmed to connect to the PBX external address.

    One of the times when a static external address is really useful.
    Thankfully most SPs of this type of connection can and do offer such.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Postman Pat@at@the-post-office-not.com to uk.telecom on Tue Jan 13 16:45:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom


    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    On Tue 13/01/2026 15:07, Postman Pat wrote:
    If one used a dedicated VOIP PBX at the office, how would one
    implement the extra one phone at a different location?


    The remote voip phone sits on the broadband at its location and is >programmed to connect to the PBX external address.

    One of the times when a static external address is really useful.
    Thankfully most SPs of this type of connection can and do offer such.

    What about security? A friend with VOIP got hacked and lost about u10k
    :)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@g4ugm@dave.invalid to uk.telecom on Tue Jan 13 18:15:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 13/01/2026 16:45, Postman Pat wrote:

    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    On Tue 13/01/2026 15:07, Postman Pat wrote:
    If one used a dedicated VOIP PBX at the office, how would one
    implement the extra one phone at a different location?


    The remote voip phone sits on the broadband at its location and is
    programmed to connect to the PBX external address.

    One of the times when a static external address is really useful.
    Thankfully most SPs of this type of connection can and do offer such.

    What about security? A friend with VOIP got hacked and lost about -u10 > :)

    If you want security then use a VPN from the remote site back to the PBX
    site. I have a VPN between two Fritz!Boxes and the telephony is linked.

    Dave


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