From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 26/12/2025 19:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

The trick for precise alignment of carbon arc limelights was a diagram
of the stage drawn on the ceiling of the projection booth. A small hole
in the top of the lamphouse cast a spot of light on the diagram, so the operator could aim the dowsed light where it was next required. When
the dowser was opened, it would be exactly on the actor (assuming the
actor was standing in the right place).

I would have thought it would need to be on the front wall of the
projection booth so it registered both side-to-side and up/down movement
of the lamp and hence the real beam. Wouldn't a tell-tale beam projected
at 90 degrees to the real one (so it's on the ceiling) only have
registered the up/down but not the side to side rotation about a
vertical axis?

This didn't work with filament lamps, so either the operator had to
'crack open' the dowser to get just enough light to see where the beam
was pointing or be very quick indeed to correct any errors. Both of
these expedients looked a bit amateurish - but with amateur productions:

Why didn't it work with filament lamps? Was it because the light source
was larger and less of a point source? Surely arc, xenon and filament
spot lights all have parabolic mirrors and lenses which focus the light
into a narrow beam, and a similar system for getting a narrow "finder"
beam to project onto the ceiling diagram. I feel I may be about to learn something about the differences between arc and filament lights ... ;-)



It must have been a major job keeping up with the script, preparing the follow-spot for the next cue by "invisible" means in the hope that when
you opened the dowser, the correct object would be highlighted. It shows
that everything goes in phases: rather like early word-processed
documents often used every available font under the sun, there is an overwhelming tendency with any new technology to do something "because
we can do it" ;-)

At least with a performer, you can align the beam to where you expect
him to be and then (once you have built up the muscle memory) you can
follow him after that because your "finder" beam is the real one: you
are not having to align your beam "blind".
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 26/12/2025 17:20, Max Demian wrote:

On 25/12/2025 18:55, NY wrote:

The Morrisons in the town where I used to live had no Vodafone
reception inside: you had to go about 10 yards outside the entrance to
get a signal. That was annoying if I needed to check with my wife
"they don't have any X; would you like me the get Y instead?".

You could use WhatsApp via the in-store Wi-Fi (perhaps).

I could, if they'd advertised that they *had* in-store wi-fi for
customers...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 26 Dec 2025 22:18:12 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2025/12/26 15:6:7, NY wrote:

On 26/12/2025 10:36, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

carbon. The outsides of the carbons were covered in copper to improve
the conductivity, this melted away as it neared the arc and dropped on
the floor of the lamphouse.

I have a pack of electrodes for my resistance soldering unit that are >manufactured like that,
must have a go at making an arc lamp with a couple.

GH

I remember generating an arc with a couple of pencils and a 120V radio
battery. (It would also work with a 90V one, just about, but not so impressive). You have to sharpen the pencils with a knife so enough of
the 'lead' is exposed for a small croc clip to attach to each one but
leaving the ends exposed, and of course the other ends of the leads go
to the battery. You then hold the two pencils very carefully so that
the pointed ends are very close but not touching and you'll get an
intensely bright pinprick of light and a faint hissing sound. It stops
if you allow the pencils to touch or if you move them too far apart;
it has to be exactly right.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Ashley Booth wrote:

James Heaton wrote:

On 25/12/2025 11:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/24 22:29:7, NY wrote:

On 24/12/2025 17:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/24 16:44:41, NY wrote:

On 24/12/2025 12:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

Being a Seekers fan (so knowing the alternative title of
one of their songs), I got 7 (and thus 8) fairly quickly!

I've got 7 and 8, but I'm trying to think which Seekers song
has that word (answer to Q7) as an alternative title...

Unofficial! A friend and I always refer to "I'll never find
..." as "The lonely ram song". Sorry.

Duh! Of course ;-) I like it.

It's almost a mondegreen rather than just a pun, in the same
vein as Neil Diamond's "Reverend Blue Jeans" (about a very
trendy vicar?) instead of "Forever in Blue Jeans", or Belinda Carlisle's "Blue Heaven is a place on earth" (which even after
multiple listenings is what I swear she sings) instead of "Ooh
heaven is a place on earth".

Oh, I love mondegreens. One of my favourites is ABBA "when I
called you last night from Tesco" (recorded long before fobile
moans were a thing!).

The large Tesco near us had a couple of payphones in that era -
useful given my Mum's writing... saved a few moans that way...

James

That reminded me of the Morecambe and Wise sketch!

Sorry, it was the Two
Ronnies.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6jWCVO38iA
--


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 26/12/2025 19:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

The trick for precise alignment of carbon arc limelights was a diagram
of the stage drawn on the ceiling of the projection booth. A small hole
in the top of the lamphouse cast a spot of light on the diagram, so the operator could aim the dowsed light where it was next required. When
the dowser was opened, it would be exactly on the actor (assuming the
actor was standing in the right place).

I would have thought it would need to be on the front wall of the
projection booth so it registered both side-to-side and up/down movement
of the lamp and hence the real beam. Wouldn't a tell-tale beam projected
at 90 degrees to the real one (so it's on the ceiling) only have
registered the up/down but not the side to side rotation about a
vertical axis?

That does make sense but perhaps the hole in the lamphouse wasn't
directly above the arc (or not on the rotational axis) so the was some
sideways movement? I have never worked the 'limes' in a theare where
this was done, but a friend has and he told me about it. Perhaps I misunderstood and the diagram actually was on the wall, not the ceiling.

This didn't work with filament lamps, so either the operator had to
'crack open' the dowser to get just enough light to see where the beam
was pointing or be very quick indeed to correct any errors. Both of
these expedients looked a bit amateurish - but with amateur productions:

Why didn't it work with filament lamps? Was it because the light source
was larger and less of a point source?

Yes, the pinhole-camera effect would give a fuzzy picture of the
filament, rather than a single spot.

Surely arc, xenon and filament
spot lights all have parabolic mirrors and lenses which focus the light
into a narrow beam, and a similar system for getting a narrow "finder"
beam to project onto the ceiling diagram. I feel I may be about to learn something about the differences between arc and filament lights ... ;-)

Filament-lamp follow-spots tended to occupy the cheaper end of the
market, so anything more elaborate than a hole in the lamphouse would be
too expensive. Also, they were more portable and would rarely have
been installed in a booth with a ceiling.

If you want to find out some interesting facts about the
quite-considerable differences in optical systems used for arcs,
high-voltage and low-voltage cinema projector lamps, there is a wealth
of information scattered throughout the Philips Technical review.

It must have been a major job keeping up with the script, preparing the follow-spot for the next cue by "invisible" means in the hope that when
you opened the dowser, the correct object would be highlighted.

It gets even more complicated when there is only one operator for two follow-spots (at least they were dimmable filament-lamp types). I have
done this whilst sitting on a plank at the top of a sectional
scaffolding access tower with the two dimmers screwed on another plank
below me. I worked barefoot with my toes curled around the dimmer
handles and had to learn the script, as there was nowhere to pin it up
and I had no free hand to turn the pages.

The coloured 'gels' were in frames which I kept on the plank beside me.
When one needed changing I had to lean out forwards to the front of the
lens housing and change it with one hand whilst holding on to the
scaffolding with the other (and trying not to disturb the other lamp if
it was operating at the time).

I learned the skills by being apprenticed to the stage electrician's
teenage daughter who, it turned out, had been working twin spots like
this ever since she could reach the handles!
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 2025/12/27 9:29:57, Ashley Booth wrote:

Ashley Booth wrote:

James Heaton wrote:

On 25/12/2025 11:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/24 22:29:7, NY wrote:

On 24/12/2025 17:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/24 16:44:41, NY wrote:

On 24/12/2025 12:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

Being a Seekers fan (so knowing the alternative title of
one of their songs), I got 7 (and thus 8) fairly quickly!

I've got 7 and 8, but I'm trying to think which Seekers song
has that word (answer to Q7) as an alternative title...

Unofficial! A friend and I always refer to "I'll never find
..." as "The lonely ram song". Sorry.

Duh! Of course ;-) I like it.

It's almost a mondegreen rather than just a pun, in the same
vein as Neil Diamond's "Reverend Blue Jeans" (about a very
trendy vicar?) instead of "Forever in Blue Jeans", or Belinda
Carlisle's "Blue Heaven is a place on earth" (which even after
multiple listenings is what I swear she sings) instead of "Ooh
heaven is a place on earth".

Oh, I love mondegreens. One of my favourites is ABBA "when I
called you last night from Tesco" (recorded long before fobile
moans were a thing!).

The large Tesco near us had a couple of payphones in that era -
useful given my Mum's writing... saved a few moans that way...

James

That reminded me of the Morecambe and Wise sketch!

Sorry, it was the Two
Ronnies.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6jWCVO38iA

Thanks - loved hearing it again!

Anyone know what year it was? (I've added uk.telecom as someone there
may be able to say - or at least put a range on it - from the telephones/booths/etc. shown.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art.
- Grayson Perry, interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 2025/12/27 11:2:55, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

[]

And all others who have contributed to this thread: I just wanted to say thanks, and how much I've enjoyed reading all of it.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art.
- Grayson Perry, interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2025/12/26 15:6:7, NY wrote:

On 26/12/2025 10:36, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

carbon. The outsides of the carbons were covered in copper to improve
the conductivity, this melted away as it neared the arc and dropped on
the floor of the lamphouse.

I have a pack of electrodes for my resistance soldering unit that are manufactured like that,
must have a go at making an arc lamp with a couple.

If you have an arc welder for car repairs that supplies around 40 to 60
amps, it will be a suitable power source (but beware of running it too
long continuously and oveheating it). A lime-cored theatre arc is even brighter than a welding arc, so don't be tempted to go without dense
goggles or you will get 'arc-eye' from even the briefest of flashes.
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 27/12/2025 13:38, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/27 9:29:57, Ashley Booth wrote:

Sorry, it was the Two
Ronnies.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6jWCVO38iA

Thanks - loved hearing it again!

Anyone know what year it was? (I've added uk.telecom as someone there
may be able to say - or at least put a range on it - from the telephones/booths/etc. shown.)

There is an on screen caption saying 1981 in the first few seconds... ;-)
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 27/12/2025 11:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

I learned the skills by being apprenticed to the stage electrician's
teenage daughter who, it turned out, had been working twin spots like
this ever since she could reach the handles!

That sounds like the start of a Two Ronnies sketch laden with
double-entendres :-)

I did a bit of work with stage lighting for school plays and operas when
I was in the fifth and sixth forms. The atmosphere was great: mine was
an all-boys school and it teamed up with the all-girls school across the
road (*), so there was a certain amount of ribaldry whenever people
thought they could get away with it.

Our school hall had old wire-wound slide-rheostats with huge Bakelite
knobs for the stage light dimmers, and am enormous rotary wire-wound one
with a little wheel for the house lights.

We were warned that with all the house lights on, with a 200 W bulb in
each lamp (and there were a *lot* of them) we had about five seconds to
go from full on to fully dimmed, otherwise "magic smoke" would billow
from the cage that surrounded the dimmer. The person on house lights was encouraged to practice with the house lights off, until they could do it
in the allotted time without making the dimmer produce a godawful
screeching noise... or "magic smoke".

The stage light dimmers were mounted vertically on a wooden panel with
several desk fans blowing onto them from behind to keep them cool. Each
dimmer could be connected to a variety of lighting circuits: there were
more lighting circuits than dimmers, and a fully-on circuit was
transferred from a dimmer to a straight-through connection to free up
the dimmer. I was presented with a piece of wood about an inch by half
an inch by eighteen inches; this was used to operate several dimmers at
once, either operating all at the same time (wooden bar horizontal) or
with the bar at an angle so some lights faded to black before others
did. The secret was to switch circuits that needed to be operated simultaneously onto *adjacent* dimmers. No prehensile feet were needed!

More than one, a dimmer's wire fuse blew in the middle of a play as we
were fading the lights up or down, so we rehearsed the transfer of the
failed circuit onto a different dimmer with its knob in roughly the same position so the visible effect was not *too* apparent. If it was a
critical light, someone actually shadowed the movement on a spare dimmer
and another lighting engineer was ready to transfer the circuit from one dimmer to another in record time.

Being on a hot stage lit by lots of hot lights, on a lighting gantry
high up in one of the wings, and with a grandstand view of the stage
from above where we could see nubile High School girls' cleavages in
low-cut costumes (**), the sweat was pouring off us, which was not a
good combination with all that electricity.


The school did have a modern thyristor-controlled lighting system that
was operated by a bank of little slide switches in a projection booth,
but it was a great white elephant. It was in the lecture theatre (tiered seats, dimmable fluorescent house lights etc) but it lack one crucial
thing for performing plays in it: there was no proscenium arch and
therefore no wings where actors could wait until their cue, so the only
way to make an entrance was through one of the pair of fire exits either
side of the stage, which led onto the playground so the actors arrived
frozen to death and covered in rain. They only tried it once, and
abandoned the idea for future plays.



(*) Our headmaster pompously referred to it as "a welcome opportunity
for a bit of cross-fertilisation" until a boy and a girl took the "fertilisation" bit rather too literally at the last-night party and she became pregnant :-)

(**) Best seat in the house, we had!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 27/12/2025 11:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

I learned the skills by being apprenticed to the stage electrician's teenage daughter who, it turned out, had been working twin spots like
this ever since she could reach the handles!

That sounds like the start of a Two Ronnies sketch laden with double-entendres :-)

I was very careful how I phrased that.

I did a bit of work with stage lighting for school plays and operas when
I was in the fifth and sixth forms. The atmosphere was great: mine was
an all-boys school and it teamed up with the all-girls school across the
road (*), so there was a certain amount of ribaldry whenever people
thought they could get away with it.

Our school hall had old wire-wound slide-rheostats with huge Bakelite
knobs for the stage light dimmers, and am enormous rotary wire-wound one
with a little wheel for the house lights.

We were warned that with all the house lights on, with a 200 W bulb in
each lamp (and there were a *lot* of them) we had about five seconds to
go from full on to fully dimmed, otherwise "magic smoke" would billow
from the cage that surrounded the dimmer. The person on house lights was encouraged to practice with the house lights off, until they could do it
in the allotted time without making the dimmer produce a godawful
screeching noise... or "magic smoke".

The stage light dimmers were mounted vertically on a wooden panel with several desk fans blowing onto them from behind to keep them cool. Each dimmer could be connected to a variety of lighting circuits: there were
more lighting circuits than dimmers, and a fully-on circuit was
transferred from a dimmer to a straight-through connection to free up
the dimmer. I was presented with a piece of wood about an inch by half
an inch by eighteen inches; this was used to operate several dimmers at
once, either operating all at the same time (wooden bar horizontal) or
with the bar at an angle so some lights faded to black before others
did. The secret was to switch circuits that needed to be operated simultaneously onto *adjacent* dimmers. No prehensile feet were needed!

More than one, a dimmer's wire fuse blew in the middle of a play as we
were fading the lights up or down, so we rehearsed the transfer of the
failed circuit onto a different dimmer with its knob in roughly the same position so the visible effect was not *too* apparent. If it was a
critical light, someone actually shadowed the movement on a spare dimmer
and another lighting engineer was ready to transfer the circuit from one dimmer to another in record time.

This all sounds so familiar. I have used a single-dimmer board with 6
circuits and a dummy load (electric fire) which could be switched in to
the low wattage circuits when required to ensure that the lamps dimmed completely.
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

This all sounds so familiar. I have used a single-dimmer board with 6 circuits and a dummy load (electric fire) which could be switched in to
the low wattage circuits when required to ensure that the lamps dimmed completely.

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 28/12/2025 10:29, Andy Burns wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

This all sounds so familiar.-a I have used a single-dimmer board with 6
circuits and a dummy load (electric fire) which could be switched in to
the low wattage circuits when required to ensure that the lamps dimmed
completely.

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.

Strand Grand Master?
There was one at the Arts Theatre, Cambridge around 1960.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Charles Hope wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.

Strand Grand Master?

Not as impressive as the images I can see of those ...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Charles Hope wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.

Strand Grand Master?

Not as impressive as the images I can see of those ...

Furze made some like that - so did Holophane.
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Charles Hope wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.

Strand Grand Master?

Not as impressive as the images I can see of those ...

Furze made some like that

This looks a lot closer to what my school had

<https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10160290699127191&set=gm.10160648729077115&idorvanity=16225877114>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

On 28/12/2025 10:29, Andy Burns wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

This all sounds so familiar.-a I have used a single-dimmer board with 6
circuits and a dummy load (electric fire) which could be switched in to
the low wattage circuits when required to ensure that the lamps dimmed
completely.

Ours had two axles, with several (8?) levers that could be rotated to
lock them onto their axle, or free them from it, so circuits could be
dimmed in groups or independently.

<four Yorkshiremen>

Luxury!

</four Yorkshiremen>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2