• Discard it

    From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Fri Oct 17 04:02:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    One of the papyrii found at Oxyrhynchus (744) is rather chilling to our
    modern ears. It is a letter from a man to his wife who is, apparently, pregnant.

    "Know that I am still in Alexandria.... I ask and beg you to take good
    care of our baby son and as soon as I received payment I shall send it
    up to you. If you are delivered before I come home, if it is a boy keep
    it, if a girl, discard it."

    Only the heathen, we feel, could have such a callous disregard for human
    life as to throw a baby out just because it is a girl - and throw it out
    for the pi dogs or vultures after it has been born!

    Yet that is precisely what the abortion lobby want to introduce into
    Britain. Some MP has attempted to smuggle such a provision into law by creating an ammendment to the Crime and Policing Bill (and ammendments
    do not get a full debate) which would allow abortion at any time (even
    up to birth, which effectively means after birth) and for any reason (including sex selection).

    Fortunately the Lords seem to be deciding against it, but doubtless the
    Labour majority in the Commons will try to ram it through against the
    Lords. There are those who wish to abolish one of the houses of
    parliament: I strongly suspect that we would be better governed if it
    was the Commons which was abolished and with it the political peers.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Fri Oct 17 09:48:28 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 17/10/2025 04:02, Kendall K. Down wrote:

    Only the heathen, we feel, could have such a callous disregard for human life as to throw a baby out just because it is a girl - and throw it out
    for the pi dogs or vultures after it has been born!

    Sadly, many, many acts of slaughter have been carried out by Christians
    - often against other Christians.

    In the case of European colonisation, advanced (for the era) military technology was ruthlessly used against weaker folk.

    The British fought wars to allow their traders to import opium into
    China, including modern steel battleships 'heroically' battling Chinese
    junks.



    Is there any evidence of Parliament adopting the amendment to the
    current abortion laws?







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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Sun Oct 19 06:49:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 17/10/2025 09:48, GB wrote:

    Sadly, many, many acts of slaughter have been carried out by Christians
    - often against other Christians.

    Yes, though at least in theory, women and children are spared. The
    present bill is directly aimed at children.
    In the case of European colonisation, advanced (for the era) military technology was ruthlessly used against weaker folk.

    The word "Gaza" springs irresistably to mind.
    The British fought wars to allow their traders to import opium into
    China, including modern steel battleships 'heroically' battling Chinese junks.

    Beware of going too far in portraying the Chinese as helpless innocents.
    I agree that the opium wars were a disgrace, but there was much, much
    more involved, primarily Chinese refusal to allow *any* trade except
    under highly controlled and restrictive conditions where corruption flourished.

    The junks to which you refer were large and equipped with canon. I
    agree, no match for modern steel battleships, but that's what happens
    when you insist on living in the past and refuse to learn from the "barbarians".

    Is there any evidence of Parliament adopting the amendment to the
    current abortion laws?

    Apart from the fact that it is actually in the proposed bill and is
    being debated, you mean?

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Sun Oct 19 13:36:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 17/10/2025 04:02, Kendall K. Down wrote:



    Yet that is precisely what the abortion lobby want to introduce into Britain. Some MP has attempted to smuggle such a provision into law by creating an ammendment to the Crime and Policing Bill (and ammendments
    do not get a full debate) which would allow abortion at any time (even
    up to birth, which effectively means after birth) and for any reason (including sex selection).

    Warning to other readers, one must always check Ken's "facts" because he
    has misrepresented what the amendment proposes
    Fortunately the Lords seem to be deciding against it, but doubtless the > Labour majority in the Commons will try to ram it through against the
    Lords. There are those who wish to abolish one of the houses of
    parliament: I strongly suspect that we would be better governed if it
    was the Commons which was abolished and with it the political peers.

    "It quite simply provides that women in England and Wales who act in
    relation to their own pregnancies cannot be guilty of any
    abortion-related offences. It is a measure designed specifically to deal
    with cases like Carla FosterrCOs. It leaves the offences in place so that other people can be guilty of them rCo for example, a doctor who fails to comply with the terms of the 1967 Act when performing abortion, or a man
    who covertly gives his partner abortion drugs to procure an abortion
    without her consent; or someone who violently attacks their pregnant
    partner or ex-partner, causing her to lose a viable pregnancy. The
    existing offences exist to deal with all of these things, and in fact
    they have been used far more often to prosecute men who cause the loss
    of wanted pregnancies than to prosecute women who self-induce abortion. AntoniazzirCOs amendment would allow the law to continue dealing with
    these crimes as it currently does. It would also have no impact on the conscience clause that allows professionals with a conscientious
    objection to opt out of direct involvement in abortion, and that
    professionals throughout the UKL rely on every day.

    NC1 is a rCycleanrCO amendment in the sense that it is straightforward to understand, and it would not lead to any legal confusion. Nevertheless,
    it would take the law much further than many people are comfortable
    with, by essentially legalising self-induced abortion at any point up
    until birth, something that is medically unsafe and which the majority
    of the public does not support. Most people support the legality of late abortion only when performed by doctors in extreme circumstances"

    https://www.strath.ac.uk/humanities/lawschool/blog/theabortiondecriminalisationamendmentsatwestminsterbadlawinthemaking/





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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Sun Oct 19 14:36:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 19/10/2025 06:49, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 17/10/2025 09:48, GB wrote:

    Sadly, many, many acts of slaughter have been carried out by
    Christians - often against other Christians.

    Yes, though at least in theory, women and children are spared. The
    present bill is directly aimed at children.
    In the case of European colonisation, advanced (for the era) military
    technology was ruthlessly used against weaker folk.

    The word "Gaza" springs irresistably to mind.

    Gaza, Sudan, Ukraine, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Syria ...



    The British fought wars to allow their traders to import opium into
    China, including modern steel battleships 'heroically' battling
    Chinese junks.

    Beware of going too far in portraying the Chinese as helpless innocents.
    I agree that the opium wars were a disgrace, but there was much, much
    more involved, primarily Chinese refusal to allow *any* trade except
    under highly controlled and restrictive conditions where corruption flourished.

    The trouble was that we wanted tea and the other wonderful goods the
    Chinese had, but they didn't need any of our manufactured goods, so the Chinese wanted to be paid in silver. Unfortunately, the quantity of
    silver needed was more than the entire world supply.

    So, this wheeze of creating a demand for something we could produce,
    namely opium, was dreamt up. At one point 10% of the Chinese population
    became addicted. As you say, entirely disgraceful.

    Of course, the Chinese should have allowed themselves to be paid in
    modern battleships...




    The junks to which you refer were large and equipped with canon. I
    agree, no match for modern steel battleships, but that's what happens
    when you insist on living in the past and refuse to learn from the "barbarians".

    Live in the past, and you get taken advantage of by the Christians, you
    mean? You do appear to be victim-blaming there.





    Is there any evidence of Parliament adopting the amendment to the
    current abortion laws?

    Apart from the fact that it is actually in the proposed bill and is
    being debated, you mean?

    I can't see it being passed, though?




    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down





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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Sun Oct 19 14:40:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 19/10/2025 13:36, John wrote:
    On 17/10/2025 04:02, Kendall K. Down wrote:



    Yet that is precisely what the abortion lobby want to introduce into
    Britain. Some MP has attempted to smuggle such a provision into law by
    creating an ammendment to the Crime and Policing Bill (and ammendments
    do not get a full debate) which would allow abortion at any time (even
    up to birth, which effectively means after birth) and for any reason
    (including sex selection).

    Warning to other readers, one must always check Ken's "facts" because he
    has misrepresented what the amendment proposes
    Fortunately the Lords seem to be deciding against it, but doubtless
    the > Labour majority in the Commons will try to ram it through
    against the
    Lords. There are those who wish to abolish one of the houses of
    parliament: I strongly suspect that we would be better governed if it
    was the Commons which was abolished and with it the political peers.

    "It quite simply provides that women in England and Wales who act in relation to their own pregnancies cannot be guilty of any abortion-
    related offences. It is a measure designed specifically to deal with
    cases like Carla FosterrCOs. It leaves the offences in place so that other people can be guilty of them rCo for example, a doctor who fails to comply with the terms of the 1967 Act when performing abortion, or a man who covertly gives his partner abortion drugs to procure an abortion without
    her consent; or someone who violently attacks their pregnant partner or ex-partner, causing her to lose a viable pregnancy. The existing
    offences exist to deal with all of these things, and in fact they have
    been used far more often to prosecute men who cause the loss of wanted pregnancies than to prosecute women who self-induce abortion.
    AntoniazzirCOs amendment would allow the law to continue dealing with
    these crimes as it currently does. It would also have no impact on the conscience clause that allows professionals with a conscientious
    objection to opt out of direct involvement in abortion, and that professionals throughout the UKL rely on every day.

    NC1 is a rCycleanrCO amendment in the sense that it is straightforward to understand, and it would not lead to any legal confusion. Nevertheless,
    it would take the law much further than many people are comfortable
    with, by essentially legalising self-induced abortion at any point up
    until birth, something that is medically unsafe and which the majority
    of the public does not support. Most people support the legality of late abortion only when performed by doctors in extreme circumstances"

    https://www.strath.ac.uk/humanities/lawschool/blog/ theabortiondecriminalisationamendmentsatwestminsterbadlawinthemaking/

    I'm not sure that a full term abortion is an abortion, anyway? It's
    called 'giving birth'.





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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 06:42:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 19/10/2025 14:36, GB wrote:

    The word "Gaza" springs irresistably to mind.

    Gaza, Sudan, Ukraine, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Syria ...

    Of course, but your post directly targetted Christians. I merely wished
    to point out that Christians are not the only ones capable of acting
    unjustly.

    The trouble was that we wanted tea and the other wonderful goods the
    Chinese had, but they didn't need any of our manufactured goods, so the Chinese wanted to be paid in silver. Unfortunately, the quantity of
    silver needed was more than the entire world supply.

    Didn't need or didn't want?

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but the link with silver I have not come
    across before.
    So, this wheeze of creating a demand for something we could produce,
    namely opium, was dreamt up. At one point 10% of the Chinese population became addicted. As you say, entirely disgraceful.

    I don't know that it was a wheeze, but it was certainly "free trade"
    carried to an extreme.

    Of course, the Chinese should have allowed themselves to be paid in
    modern battleships...

    If they wanted to get belligerent, they should certainly have upgraded
    their military.

    As well as the factors you list, there was also the Chinese conviction
    that they were superior, which led them to ignore basic diplomatic conventions. That, in turn, made negotiations impossible. Britain was
    wrong to force opium on China, but the Chinese are not without fault.

    Live in the past, and you get taken advantage of by the Christians, you mean? You do appear to be victim-blaming there.

    Sometimes victims are indeed to blame. Again, Gaza springs to mind.

    I can't see it being passed, though?

    I sincerely hope not, but I presume the person who inserted it into the
    bill a) had enough supporters to bring that about, and b) intended his
    ruse to succeed in getting the murder of babies made legal.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 06:47:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 19/10/2025 13:36, John wrote:

    Warning to other readers, one must always check Ken's "facts" because he
    has misrepresented what the amendment proposes

    You then go on to give further detail, which merely confirms the truth
    of my summary.

    "It quite simply provides that women in England and Wales who act in relation to their own pregnancies cannot be guilty of any abortion-
    related offences.

    1. Why should women be exempt from penalties for carrying out an illegal
    act?

    2. The phrase "slippery slope" springs to mind. This is just a first
    step in a campaign to bring in abortion at any time.

    NC1 is a rCycleanrCO amendment in the sense that it is straightforward to understand, and it would not lead to any legal confusion. Nevertheless,
    it would take the law much further than many people are comfortable
    with, by essentially legalising self-induced abortion at any point up
    until birth, something that is medically unsafe and which the majority
    of the public does not support. Most people support the legality of late abortion only when performed by doctors in extreme circumstances"

    I am glad that majority opinion is against the provisions of this bill.
    No doubt the BBC will now start a campaign with plays, sob stories in
    the news, and all the rest of it, to manipulate public opinion in favour
    of what the amendment advocates.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 06:49:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 19/10/2025 14:40, GB wrote:

    I'm not sure that a full term abortion is an abortion, anyway? It's
    called 'giving birth'.

    And killing a live baby is called "infanticide".

    There was an American girl currently in prison because she gave birth in secret and killed the baby because it would interfere with her social
    life and her aspirations to be a cheer leader. Under this bill she would
    have been exempt from prosecution.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 13:46:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 06:42, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 19/10/2025 14:36, GB wrote:

    The word "Gaza" springs irresistably to mind.

    Gaza, Sudan, Ukraine, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Syria ...

    Of course, but your post directly targetted Christians. I merely wished
    to point out that Christians are not the only ones capable of acting unjustly.

    I was responding to you saying:
    "Only the heathen, we feel, could have such a callous disregard for
    human life".

    The only way to disprove that is by showing that Christians, too, show a callous disregard for human life, I'm afraid.





    The trouble was that we wanted tea and the other wonderful goods the
    Chinese had, but they didn't need any of our manufactured goods, so
    the Chinese wanted to be paid in silver. Unfortunately, the quantity
    of silver needed was more than the entire world supply.

    Didn't need or didn't want?

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but the link with silver I have not come
    across before.

    I read a book about the opium wars, but I'm not an historian. I just
    checked AI, and it says:

    The Opium Wars had a profound impact on China's silver reserves and its broader economic stability. Here's how silver played a central role in
    the conflict:

    EfA# Silver and Trade Imbalance
    China's Silver Standard: For centuries, China operated on a silver-based monetary system. Silver was the backbone of its economy, used for taxes, trade, and savings.

    Western Demand for Chinese Goods: Britain and other Western powers
    imported large quantities of Chinese tea, silk, and porcelain. However,
    China demanded payment in silver, leading to a significant outflow of
    silver from Britain to China.

    Efi+ Opium as a Trade Equalizer
    British Strategy: To reverse the silver drain, Britain began exporting
    opium from India to China. The addictive drug created a massive demand,
    and Chinese buyers paid for it in silver.

    Economic Consequences: This led to a reversal of silver flowsrCosilver
    began leaving China in large quantities, destabilizing its economy and draining its reserves





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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 13:56:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 06:49, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 19/10/2025 14:40, GB wrote:

    I'm not sure that a full term abortion is an abortion, anyway? It's
    called 'giving birth'.

    And killing a live baby is called "infanticide".

    There was an American girl currently in prison because she gave birth in secret and killed the baby because it would interfere with her social
    life and her aspirations to be a cheer leader. Under this bill she would have been exempt from prosecution.

    The same parents in East London have now, for the third time(!),
    abandoned a baby child. This time, in freezing temperatures, the baby
    was abandoned in a park. Fortunately, she was found and has now been
    taken into care.

    https://news.sky.com/story/search-for-mother-of-three-abandoned-babies-narrows-as-police-fear-fourth-child-may-be-found-13368084

    There must be a better way of dealing with this issue, which has been
    around a very long time.

    https://foundlingmuseum.org.uk/our-story/what-is-a-foundling/








    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down





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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 19:00:28 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 13:46, GB wrote:

    I was responding to you saying:
    "Only the heathen, we feel, could have such a callous disregard for
    human life".
    The only way to disprove that is by showing that Christians, too, show a callous disregard for human life, I'm afraid.

    Ah, but the "callous disregard" to which I was referring was the
    deliberate killing of unborn or newly born babies. Events in wars,
    however deplorable, do not come into the same category, I'm afraid.

    Interesting about the silver.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 19:40:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 13:56, GB wrote:

    The same parents in East London have now, for the third time(!),
    abandoned a baby child. This time, in freezing temperatures, the baby
    was abandoned in a park. Fortunately, she was found and has now been
    taken into care.

    And you think that killing the baby is an acceptable alternative?
    However in this case, where the woman is using abandonment as a form of
    birth control, a long spell in prison seems called for.
    There must be a better way of dealing with this issue, which has been
    around a very long time.

    Some places have special hatches in fire stations or police stations.
    You can open it from the outside, deposit unwanted baby in and scarper.
    Those inside open the inner door, retrieve baby and care for it.

    Not saying I approve, but it is *a* solution.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 20:07:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 19:00, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 20/10/2025 13:46, GB wrote:

    I was responding to you saying:
    "Only the heathen, we feel, could have such a callous disregard for
    human life".
    The only way to disprove that is by showing that Christians, too, show
    a callous disregard for human life, I'm afraid.

    Ah, but the "callous disregard" to which I was referring was the
    deliberate killing of unborn or newly born babies. Events in wars,
    however deplorable, do not come into the same category, I'm afraid.

    I broke my toe whilst in India and went to the local GP in Bangalore.
    There was a BIG sign on the wall saying they would not tell parents the
    sex of their unborn child.






    Interesting about the silver.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down





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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 20 20:32:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 19:40, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 20/10/2025 13:56, GB wrote:

    The same parents in East London have now, for the third time(!),
    abandoned a baby child. This time, in freezing temperatures, the baby
    was abandoned in a park. Fortunately, she was found and has now been
    taken into care.

    And you think that killing the baby is an acceptable alternative?

    No, I don't, actually. We should, if possible, support parents to keep
    their children or give them up for adoption.

    However, I'm in favour of birth control, and you have said much the same.

    The normal birth control pill prevents the fertilised eggs from
    embedding in the wall of the womb, which in principle is no different
    from abortion.

    But that raises the question of how many cells is it okay to abort? If
    it's okay to abort a single cell foetus, why not 10 billion cells?

    One consistent approach is only to approve of birth control that
    prevents fertilisation?


    However in this case, where the woman is using abandonment as a form of birth control, a long spell in prison seems called for.

    Without knowing more, I don't think we can blame the mother, rather than
    the father.


    There must be a better way of dealing with this issue, which has been
    around a very long time.

    Some places have special hatches in fire stations or police stations.
    You can open it from the outside, deposit unwanted baby in and scarper. Those inside open the inner door, retrieve baby and care for it.

    Not saying I approve, but it is *a* solution.

    I used to work in the City of London, and I vaguely recall one of the buildings had a niche built into the side for this purpose.




    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down





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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Tue Oct 21 03:52:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 20:07, GB wrote:

    I broke my toe whilst in India and went to the local GP in Bangalore.
    There was a BIG sign on the wall saying they would not tell parents the
    sex of their unborn child.

    Good for them. Sex-based abortion is a big problem in India, where the pressure is to have male children. Girls require huge doweries if they
    want to be married and attempts by government to legislate on the issue
    are so far unsuccessful.

    There have even been cases of women being murdered by their husbands so
    that he can marry again and get another dowery to solve financial
    problems. The favoured way is to burn the wife alive.

    Indian women wear saris, which have a long, trailing bit over the
    shoulder. Many also cook on kerosine or gas stoves on the ground and the trailing sari catches on fire from the stove, so it is only too easy to
    burn the wife and then blame it on an accident. Any suspicions by the
    police are easily put to rest with a few hundred rupees.

    India needs a huge cultural change. Get a kitchen bench and work
    standing up instead of squatting down. Keep your sari for formal
    occasions, not while cooking. Stop paying doweries - make it illegal
    with real penalties. Root out corruption among the police (probably
    hopeless considering that Hindu gods are dishonest and stealing is an essential attribute of godhead!) Maybe then women will be valued as
    human beings instead of cash cows.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Tue Oct 21 03:57:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 20:32, GB wrote:

    However, I'm in favour of birth control, and you have said much the same.

    Yes.
    The normal birth control pill prevents the fertilised eggs from
    embedding in the wall of the womb, which in principle is no different
    from abortion.

    Which is why the Catholic church is against it.

    But that raises the question of how many cells is it okay to abort? If
    it's okay to abort a single cell foetus, why not 10 billion cells?

    At what point does the foetus become "ensouled", to use the jargon. The problem is solved if "soul" is taken to be, not some divine spiritual
    thing infused into the foetus, but the personality, which develops
    throughout life and which makes you different from me. On that basis a
    single cell does not have soul and the earliest a soul could be present
    is once the foetus starts to respond to external stimulii.

    One consistent approach is only to approve of birth control that
    prevents fertilisation?

    I don't disagree.

    Without knowing more, I don't think we can blame the mother, rather than
    the father.

    I didn't say who should be imprisoned, but if the father is to blame -
    which may well be the case - the mother still deserves punishment for
    staying with him.

    I used to work in the City of London, and I vaguely recall one of the buildings had a niche built into the side for this purpose.

    Interesting.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.religion.christian on Tue Oct 21 12:00:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 21/10/2025 03:57, Kendall K. Down wrote:

    Without knowing more, I don't think we can blame the mother, rather
    than the father.

    I didn't say who should be imprisoned, but if the father is to blame -
    which may well be the case - the mother still deserves punishment for staying with him.

    I'm reminded of Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon. The local authority (rightly!) decided they were atrocious parents, and took their previous three children into care.

    They made sure their fourth child, Victoria, was born at home, without
    any midwife care. I have some sympathy with their wish to avoid the
    authority and look after Victoria themselves, but their chosen method
    (camping out mid-winter) was completely barmy.

    I can't see how sentencing them to 14 years will somehow make them
    better parents?






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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Tue Oct 21 17:44:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 21/10/2025 12:00, GB wrote:

    I can't see how sentencing them to 14 years will somehow make them
    better parents?
    Make it 24 and then there will be no danger of them becoming parents at all.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 19:54:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 20:07, GB wrote:

    I broke my toe whilst in India and went to the local GP in Bangalore.
    There was a BIG sign on the wall saying they would not tell parents the
    sex of their unborn child.

    My son is nearly 38 now, but neither of us wanted to know the gender
    until birth. Despite the new fangled fad of gender reveals, I still
    wouldn't want to know beforehand.



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 19:58:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 06:49, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 19/10/2025 14:40, GB wrote:

    I'm not sure that a full term abortion is an abortion, anyway? It's
    called 'giving birth'.

    And killing a live baby is called "infanticide".

    There was an American girl currently in prison because she gave birth in secret and killed the baby because it would interfere with her social
    life and her aspirations to be a cheer leader. Under this bill she would have been exempt from prosecution.

    How so? If the birth has already taken place, then it's no longer abortion.



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 20:09:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 20/10/2025 06:47, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 19/10/2025 13:36, John wrote:

    Warning to other readers, one must always check Ken's "facts" because
    he has misrepresented what the amendment proposes

    You then go on to give further detail, which merely confirms the truth
    of my summary.


    Except it doesn't. You gave a blanket statement that the amendment
    would make abortion legal up to the date of birth, whearas the amendment
    only allows mothers to be exempt from prosecution if they abort their
    own baby. Abortion after 24 weeks will still be illegal.
    I am glad that majority opinion is against the provisions of this bill.
    No doubt the BBC will now start a campaign with plays, sob stories in
    the news, and all the rest of it, to manipulate public opinion in favour
    of what the amendment advocates.Now you're just being silly.







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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 23:47:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 23/10/2025 19:54, John wrote:

    I broke my toe whilst in India and went to the local GP in Bangalore.
    There was a BIG sign on the wall saying they would not tell parents
    the sex of their unborn child.

    My son is nearly 38 now, but neither of us wanted to know the gender
    until birth.-a Despite the new fangled fad of gender reveals, I still wouldn't want to know beforehand.
    Indeed, but in India there is a more sinister significance. Parents want
    to use modern science to discover the gender of the baby so that they
    can abort a girl.

    Like the Chinese, who faced a similar issue during the One Child policy,
    they wanted to ensure that their family line continued, so now they have
    a son but they cannot find a wife for him anywhere and so the family
    line will die out. Much better to trust God and rely on Him to decide
    that sex of the baby.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 23:49:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 23/10/2025 19:58, John wrote:

    How so? If the birth has already taken place, then it's no longer abortion.
    Because the new law - if passed - will allow abortion up to the moment
    of birth. Exactly what does that mean? Up until the baby has crowned? Up
    until it has fully left the womb? Up until two minutes after birth?

    These people are positively evil.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 23 23:51:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 23/10/2025 20:09, John wrote:

    Except it doesn't.-a You gave a blanket statement that the amendment
    would make abortion legal up to the date of birth, whearas the amendment only allows mothers to be exempt from prosecution if they abort their
    own baby.-a Abortion after 24 weeks will still be illegal.

    Unfortunately, abortion after 24 weeks will only be illegal if carried
    out by a doctor. A mother at home will be exempt.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Fri Oct 24 11:43:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 23/10/2025 23:51, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 23/10/2025 20:09, John wrote:

    Except it doesn't.-a You gave a blanket statement that the amendment
    would make abortion legal up to the date of birth, whearas the
    amendment only allows mothers to be exempt from prosecution if they
    abort their own baby.-a Abortion after 24 weeks will still be illegal.

    Unfortunately, abortion after 24 weeks will only be illegal if carried
    out by a doctor. A mother at home will be exempt.

    The abortion will still be illegal, all the amendment proposes is that
    the person carrying the baby won't be prosecuted.

    The longer a pregnancy goes on the more likely tremendous harm will be
    done if someone decides to terminate their own foetus without external
    help. If external help is sought, eg a doctor, then the doctor can be prosecuted.



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Fri Oct 24 12:04:20 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 23/10/2025 23:49, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 23/10/2025 19:58, John wrote:

    How so? If the birth has already taken place, then it's no longer
    abortion.
    Because the new law - if passed - will allow abortion up to the moment
    of birth. Exactly what does that mean? Up until the baby has crowned? Up until it has fully left the womb? Up until two minutes after birth.

    One of the reasons the amendment is proposed is due to the Carla Foster
    case, who induced her abortion between 34 and 36 weeks pregnancy.
    Although I can see the reaoning behind the amendment I disagree with it,
    but Carla obviously had her reasons for wanting to abort it, and
    although 34-36 weeks is too late imo, no one is suggesting there will be
    women queing up carte blanc to abort their babies seconds before giving
    birth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Carla_Foster

    These people are positively evil.

    It's one person actually, and whilst I disagree with her amendment I
    would hardly call her evil. There is very little appetite for it to be included so methinks you're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.






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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Sat Oct 25 19:25:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 24/10/2025 12:04, John wrote:

    One of the reasons the amendment is proposed is due to the Carla Foster case, who induced her abortion between 34 and 36 weeks pregnancy.

    Changing the law to justify a crime does not seem like a good idea to me.

    Although I can see the reaoning behind the amendment I disagree with it,
    but Carla obviously had her reasons for wanting to abort it, and
    although 34-36 weeks is too late imo, no one is suggesting there will be women queing up carte blanc to abort their babies seconds before giving birth.

    Nonsense. People doubtless said that same about any leglisation of
    abortion, but now we *do* have women queuing up to have abortions
    instead of bothering with birth control.

    These people are positively evil.

    It's one person actually, and whilst I disagree with her amendment I
    would hardly call her evil. There is very little appetite for it to be included so methinks you're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

    One person has proposed the ammendment, trying to be devious and sneak
    in this abortion business without proper debate. Plus there is the whole abortion industry behind her which has previously advocated for abortion
    up to (and including) birth. She is just their cats-paw.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Sat Oct 25 19:43:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 24/10/2025 11:43, John wrote:

    The abortion will still be illegal, all the amendment proposes is that
    the person carrying the baby won't be prosecuted.

    Which is legalisation by the back door. It is akin to the police
    refusing to prosecute shop-lifters. Like it or not, Joe Public takes
    that to mean that shop-lifting is Ok.
    The longer a pregnancy goes on the more likely tremendous harm will be
    done if someone decides to terminate their own foetus without external
    help. If external help is sought, eg a doctor, then the doctor can be prosecuted.
    So the ammendment is dangerous as well as evil. It will result in the
    deaths of the women it is ostensibly trying to help. Really, all it is
    helping is the abortion industry, for whom this is the start of a
    genuine slippery slope.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Mon Oct 27 00:02:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 25/10/2025 19:43, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 24/10/2025 11:43, John wrote:

    So the ammendment is dangerous as well as evil. It will result in the
    deaths of the women it is ostensibly trying to help. Really, all it is helping is the abortion industry, for whom this is the start of a
    genuine slippery slope.

    Out of interest, do you eat eggs?



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  • From Kendall K. Down@kendallkdown@googlemail.com to uk.religion.christian on Tue Oct 28 19:16:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 27/10/2025 00:02, John wrote:

    Out of interest, do you eat eggs?
    Yes. I agree it is a bit inconsistent, but if the egg is unfertilised
    you aren't killing anything.

    God bless,
    Kendall K. Down
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com



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  • From John@megane.06@gmail.com to uk.religion.christian on Thu Oct 30 11:18:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

    On 28/10/2025 19:16, Kendall K. Down wrote:
    On 27/10/2025 00:02, John wrote:

    Out of interest, do you eat eggs?
    Yes. I agree it is a bit inconsistent, but if the egg is unfertilised
    you aren't killing anything.

    Fair point.



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