Bus readers do try to ask the second question. I've had one reject myHmm, I wonder how railway barriers deal with the inherent card-clash of
being presented with two protocols at once.
The London readers, when sensing the presence of an RFID card, will first >ask, oAre you an Oyster card?o. If theyAre rail (but not bus) readers, >theyAll then ask, oAre an ITSO card with a pre-loaded travelcard?o. If
they donAt get a positive answer to either, will ask, oAre a CC card?o.
That might partly explain the slightly slower response to CC cards.
Bus readers only ask the first and third questions, leaving it to the
drivers to accept ENCTS bus passes.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 12:36:39 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Bus readers do try to ask the second question. I've had one reject myHmm, I wonder how railway barriers deal with the inherent card-clash of >>> being presented with two protocols at once.
The London readers, when sensing the presence of an RFID card, will first
ask, -oAre you an Oyster card?-o. If they-Are rail (but not bus) readers, >> they-All then ask, -oAre an ITSO card with a pre-loaded travelcard?-o. If >> they don-At get a positive answer to either, will ask, -oAre a CC card?-o. >> That might partly explain the slightly slower response to CC cards.
Bus readers only ask the first and third questions, leaving it to the
drivers to accept ENCTS bus passes.
bus pass with a message to the effect that it's an ITSO so I should
stop annoying it.
On 22/02/2026 22:36, Sam Wilson wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <XaHmR.43$Oe4c.24@fx11.ams1>, at 17:39:03 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
In the railway context, Freedom Passes are Oyster cards. They turn into >>>>>> ITSO cards when used as bus passes outside London.
Finally, some rail related content.
Huh? YourCOre the one you constantly hijacks rail-related threads >>>>tell us irrelevant, non-rail-related personal stories from >>>>yesteryear.
And yet you are the one who complains my more recent occupations are of
little worth. So that's an invitation to debunk.
But wrong. ITSO and Oyster are quite different (although both RFID) >>>>> technologies, and the Freedom Pass is ITSO.
As I said, itrCOs an Oyster card in London, and an ITSO card on non-London >>>> buses.
No it isn't. A card like that can't have two RFID technologies side by
side [Barclaycard briefly tried to have a dual Oyster/CCC but the fact
it was guaranteed card-clash as soon as TfL's gates started accepting
CCC, sunk it]. So the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it
- it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
For avoidance of doubt (wich I suspect there was little of, but in any >event,) Roland is of course talking nonsense as usual.
Oyster and ITSO are not "two RFID technologies", and neither in fact is
the EMV used on payment cards - they all implement ISO/IEC 14443.
It is entirely possible - even, common - for a single NFC device to
have multiple different card applications loaded; probably the most
entirely commonplace one you might have to hand would be "a mobile
phone" - my phone is simultaneously presenting as an EMV payment card,
a French Navigo card, and doubtless a few things I've forgotten.
IOW, there is zero technical barrier to having ITSO and Oyster loaded
on the same card. The card reader selects the application it wants to
talk to as the first step of the communication protocol.
(The issue with having both Oyster and an EMV card on the same card
isn't "card clash" - it's that TfL gates would need to guess at which
one it is supposed to use when presented with two equally valid
options.
The gates could of course do something like "try the Oyster card first,
and then try the payment card it it doesn't work" but that's going to
be slow and confusing for customers - and in systems like London which
check out as well as in you'll have to also store some sort of flag to
tell the exit gates which one was used to check in, which is all
starting to sound like a lot of ballache
to support a completely pointless usecase:
The combined Oyster+Barclaycard wasn't discontinued because of any >fundamental technical limitation, it's because it's pointless when the
gates accept any payment card anyway.
ITSO+Oyster on the same card is no problem at all for as long as
readers that accept Oyster can just ignore the ITSO card, and readers
that accept ITSO can just ignore the Oyster card.)
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which stations >>>> the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a train >>>> is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But
there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines >around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way that >Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
In message <10nhck8$2u1fi$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:11:02 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
The gates could of course do something like "try the Oyster card first,
and then try the payment card it it doesn't work" but that's going to
be slow and confusing for customers - and in systems like London which
check out as well as in you'll have to also store some sort of flag to
tell the exit gates which one was used to check in, which is all
starting to sound like a lot of ballache
Presumably recliner's combined Oyster/ITSO has to go through that
palaver when used at gate lines in London?
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which
stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a >>>>> train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But
there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines
around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way
that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line", but there are also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and Peterborough
(and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
In message <8lbopk98j7qr45ob8mtfa30cu84lljg1nn@4ax.com>, at 10:54:02 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
I tend not to recommend replacement ink to friends or family.
Despite being a rip-off original ink isn't a signifcant part of most
people's budget
I don't know what he's printing (retired and just a hobbyist), but I
know someone who gets through about -u100/month 'genuine' ink.
Bought him some cheaper replacements, but he rejected them because he couldn't work out how to turn off the "Are you sure you want to use
inferior ink which could damage your printer, cause famine, pestilence
and World War 3" messages for every single time he printed.
My Epson only puts that message up once, right after you've replaced a cartridge.
In message <ENzaHRC852mpFAfT@perry.uk>, at 21:00:44 on Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it
- it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
FWIW my Scottish bus pass starts with those numbers too.
That's because all UK-issued ITSO cards do!
The next four digits are assigned to an issuer, of which 0115 is common
for concessionary bus passes. Although there's some anecdotal evidence
yours might be 0273, or perhaps 0130.
I've got a Scotrail non-concessionary card somewhere, and if I find it
I'll check what it says.
0116
In message <10nfpqn$2e83q$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:44:07 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
He's a blogger and they are anonymous bloggers.
Amazing rCo you don't actually know what a blogger is!
You may have some personal definition, but that's what's the odd man out
is here.
He clearly is not, by accepted definitions of the term. ThatrCOs
another word
to add to the Rolandspeak translation dictionary.
I've added it to my list of things you don't understand.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/blogger
Participants in forums are not bloggers,
Regular contributors (and in this case we are talking about a fairly
prolific moderator) are.
Errm, no. A blogger is someone who writes a blog, a weblog, a log, on the >> web, of their thoughts, actions, writings etc, curated by and for
themselves. ThatrCOs not what the person referred to above is doing.
Just like some people claim the term "doughnutting" now subsumes "dumbelling", the meaning drifts over time.
As a form of self-publishing, the repeated posting of messages to a
specific forum/platform is just as much 'blogging' as the original
meaning which was having your own personal website to which only you
can post (and quite likely no-one can comment).
So when recliner regales us with his trips via first class lounges to
exotic holiday destinations, I'd call that "blogging" too. Not in a bad
way, it's just a description of the activity, for which I don't think there's an alternative name. He does it on Flickr too.
The biggest blogging platform these days is probably YouTube, where so-called "influencers" make a living uploading videos of their
exploits. (Some call it "vlogging"). Next is Facebook/Instagram,
although harder to monetise.
The 'long tail' includes many specialist forums, and even Usenet groups.
On 23/02/2026 11:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <8lbopk98j7qr45ob8mtfa30cu84lljg1nn@4ax.com>, at 10:54:02 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
I tend not to recommend replacement ink to friends or family.
Despite being a rip-off original ink isn't a signifcant part of most
people's budget
I don't know what he's printing (retired and just a hobbyist), but I
know someone who gets through about u100/month 'genuine' ink.
Bought him some cheaper replacements, but he rejected them because he
couldn't work out how to turn off the "Are you sure you want to use
inferior ink which could damage your printer, cause famine, pestilence
and World War 3" messages for every single time he printed.
HP, I assume. I will never buy from them again.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2My Epson only puts that message up once, right after you've replaced a
cartridge.
On 23/02/2026 13:00, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nh10u$2q1p5$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:02 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <smumpkto5pdlf865spnj7jpmukvokms7n8@4ax.com>, at 21:59:00 on >>>>> Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but that >>>>>> does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used by >>>>>> TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.I think they sell Oysters to tourists.ThererCOs also a TfL travel
centre just as you cross from NR to TfL territory, down at the clock >>>>>>>>>> end of StP.
But do they sell train tickets, rather than theatre/attraction tickets?
Last time I was there, the subsurface ticket hall had a vending machine >>>>>>> for those.
Not everyone can use contactless.
Especially a family of four might not have four separate cards
available.
I suppose it might be somewhere to go to get a railcard added to an >>>>>>>> Oyster.
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>>>>>> unlikely that the travel information office could do it.
Can you be a bit more precise about these mystery "other methods"?
In particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, not >>>>> in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it >>>>> to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.
WouldnrCOt a mobile phone/device with appropriate software and NFC hardware
be able to update the card? I know Oyster isnrCOt ITSO, but my phone can >>>> update an ITSO card.
It's highly unlikely that there are drivers available for a phone
to write to an Oyster Card, just like a phone can't write to a Credit
Card (but can *read* them). It's not just idleness, but requires
incorporating the security features, which are a fairly closely guarded
secret.
The last thing you want in the wild is a phone app which can add extra
random credit to an Oyster card.
I used to have a phone app which read the biometric details off
rfid-equipped passports[1], but I suspect it's been withdrawn now.
And while I still have apps which will *read* eg an Oyster card, what I
get is pages and pages of HEX, not a user-friendly representation of it. >>>
[1] So when people ask to have a passport photo, for example to put on a >>> railcard or photo-ITSO card, I can literally send them the image I
sucked out from inside my passport.
But I can write to my Scotrail ITSO card. I can buy a ticket on my phone
and transfer it to the card.
Roland is, as ever, full of shit.
It would be entirely possible for a phone to write to the Oyster balance
if TfL wanted to make that an option. In Paris, for example, you can recharge a physical Navigo card using a mobile phone.
Navigo cards are (since 2014) based on the same ISO14443 technology as Oyster, ITSO, and EMV payment cards. There are no "closely guarded
secrets" in terms of the security implementation, no "drivers" are
required, TfL would just have to develop the services concerned to
implement the relevant key/certificate management and signing protocols
to enable it...
The reason I suspect they haven't bothered is that when the Oyster
system was being built, mobile phones that spoke NFC weren't really a
thing, and by the time that they were TfL were already moving to the backoffice-based system and away from smartcards, which makes the whole topic moot.
In message <5qfopktrtha0n9so5i6ffpm564k49o31rv@4ax.com>, at 11:51:56 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 11:22:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10nhbaa$2tce9$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:42 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 23/02/2026 10:36, Roland Perry wrote:
the
-a-a-a culprits listed. As is Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.
Second class mail has been restricted to 3 deliveries a week for a
while now.
On the other hand:
https://www.royalmail.com/receiving/delivery-times (see above)
Under our current Universal Service Obligation, Second Class
mail is delivered six days a week - Monday to Saturday. However,
there have been ongoing discussions about whether this
requirement should change in the future.
Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it).
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo.
Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5qfopktrtha0n9so5i6ffpm564k49o31rv@4ax.com>, at 11:51:56 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 11:22:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10nhbaa$2tce9$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:42 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 23/02/2026 10:36, Roland Perry wrote:
the
-a-a-a culprits listed. As is Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.
Second class mail has been restricted to 3 deliveries a week for a
while now.
On the other hand:
https://www.royalmail.com/receiving/delivery-times (see above)
Under our current Universal Service Obligation, Second Class
mail is delivered six days a week - Monday to Saturday. However,
there have been ongoing discussions about whether this
requirement should change in the future.
Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it).
You might want to expect that, but the fact that they are being scrutinised suggests one might have to lower onerCOs expectations.
Sam
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5qfopktrtha0n9so5i6ffpm564k49o31rv@4ax.com>, at 11:51:56 on >>> Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 11:22:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10nhbaa$2tce9$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:42 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 23/02/2026 10:36, Roland Perry wrote:
the
-a-a-a culprits listed. As is Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.
Second class mail has been restricted to 3 deliveries a week for a >>>>>> while now.
On the other hand:
https://www.royalmail.com/receiving/delivery-times (see above)
Under our current Universal Service Obligation, Second Class
mail is delivered six days a week - Monday to Saturday. However,
there have been ongoing discussions about whether this
requirement should change in the future.
Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it).
You might want to expect that, but the fact that they are being scrutinised >> suggests one might have to lower onerCOs expectations.
Sam
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
As to bulk mail, bank, NHS etc, yourCOve no idea if the delays are due to the non Royal Mail company collecting the mail from the sender, or RM providing the final delivery leg.
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not
needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal >>> ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal
ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination
to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the journey is valid on one or both tickets.
Roland is, as ever, full of shit.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ENzaHRC852mpFAfT@perry.uk>, at 21:00:44 on Sun, 22 Feb 2026,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it
- it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
FWIW my Scottish bus pass starts with those numbers too.
That's because all UK-issued ITSO cards do!
The next four digits are assigned to an issuer, of which 0115 is common
for concessionary bus passes. Although there's some anecdotal evidence
yours might be 0273, or perhaps 0130.
I've got a Scotrail non-concessionary card somewhere, and if I find it
I'll check what it says.
0116
MinerCOs 0130.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nfpqn$2e83q$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:44:07 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
He's a blogger and they are anonymous bloggers.
Amazing rCo you don't actually know what a blogger is!
You may have some personal definition, but that's what's the >>>>>>>>odd man out
is here.
He clearly is not, by accepted definitions of the term. ThatrCOs >>>>>>> another word
to add to the Rolandspeak translation dictionary.
I've added it to my list of things you don't understand.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/blogger
Participants in forums are not bloggers,
Regular contributors (and in this case we are talking about a fairly
prolific moderator) are.
Errm, no. A blogger is someone who writes a blog, a weblog, a log, on the >>> web, of their thoughts, actions, writings etc, curated by and for
themselves. ThatrCOs not what the person referred to above is doing.
Just like some people claim the term "doughnutting" now subsumes
"dumbelling", the meaning drifts over time.
As a form of self-publishing, the repeated posting of messages to a
specific forum/platform is just as much 'blogging' as the original
meaning which was having your own personal website to which only you
can post (and quite likely no-one can comment).
So when recliner regales us with his trips via first class lounges to
exotic holiday destinations, I'd call that "blogging" too. Not in a bad
way, it's just a description of the activity, for which I don't think
there's an alternative name. He does it on Flickr too.
The biggest blogging platform these days is probably YouTube, where
so-called "influencers" make a living uploading videos of their
exploits. (Some call it "vlogging"). Next is Facebook/Instagram,
although harder to monetise.
The 'long tail' includes many specialist forums, and even Usenet groups.
Thank you, Humpty.
<https://www.britannica.com/quotes/Lewis-Carroll>
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
As to bulk mail, bank, NHS etc, yourCOve no idea if the delays are due to the >non Royal Mail company collecting the mail from the sender, or RM providing >the final delivery leg.
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not
needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a
zonal
ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal
ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination
to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the
journey is valid on one or both tickets.
-aBy my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal.
-aIt does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is
valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5qfopktrtha0n9so5i6ffpm564k49o31rv@4ax.com>, at 11:51:56 on >>>> Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 11:22:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10nhbaa$2tce9$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:42 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 23/02/2026 10:36, Roland Perry wrote:
the
-a-a-a culprits listed. As is Leicester, Oxford and Swindon.
Second class mail has been restricted to 3 deliveries a week for a >>>>>>> while now.
On the other hand:
https://www.royalmail.com/receiving/delivery-times (see above)
Under our current Universal Service Obligation, Second Class
mail is delivered six days a week - Monday to Saturday. However,
there have been ongoing discussions about whether this
requirement should change in the future.
Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it).
You might want to expect that, but the fact that they are being scrutinised >>> suggests one might have to lower onerCOs expectations.
Sam
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >> July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
As to bulk mail, bank, NHS etc, yourCOve no idea if the delays are due to the
non Royal Mail company collecting the mail from the sender, or RM providing >> the final delivery leg.
Anecdotes heard on the radio suggest that the current driver is to get
larger things out of the depot asap so theyrCOre not cluttering up the place.
That in turn suggests a continuing backlog.
Sam
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >> July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which stations >>>> the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a train >>>> is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But
there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way that Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <8lbopk98j7qr45ob8mtfa30cu84lljg1nn@4ax.com>, at 10:54:02 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
I tend not to recommend replacement ink to friends or family.
Despite being a rip-off original ink isn't a signifcant part of most
people's budget
I don't know what he's printing (retired and just a hobbyist), but I
know someone who gets through about -u100/month 'genuine' ink.
<https://youtu.be/RgBYohJ7mIk>
On 22/02/2026 22:40, Recliner wrote:
So does mine (in SE London) but not always promptly. A letter postmarked Warrington, 13 February, with a first class stamp, was delivered on
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Tuesday 17th.
On 23/02/2026 17:38, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not
needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a
zonal
ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination
to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the
journey is valid on one or both tickets.
-aBy my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal. >>
-aIt does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is
valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same"
unless you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
Yes, the requirement is only when the train does not call. There seems
to be a relaxation, in that two seasons can now be combined, but also a tightening, in that there must now be no overlap.
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which stations >>>>> the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a train >>>>> is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But
there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines
around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way that >> Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
but there are
also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and Peterborough
(and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not
needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal >>>> ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal
ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination
to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the
journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal.
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid
and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
In message <smumpkto5pdlf865spnj7jpmukvokms7n8@4ax.com>, at 21:59:00 on
Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but thatI think they sell Oysters to tourists.ThereAs also a TfL travel
centre just as you cross from NR to TfL territory, down at the clock >>>>>> end of StP.
But do they sell train tickets, rather than theatre/attraction tickets? >>>>>
Last time I was there, the subsurface ticket hall had a vending machine >>>for those.
Not everyone can use contactless.
Especially a family of four might not have four separate cards
available.
I suppose it might be somewhere to go to get a railcard added to an >>>>Oyster.
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>>unlikely that the travel information office could do it.
does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used by
TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.
Can you be a bit more precise about these mystery "other methods"?
In particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, not
in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it
to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.
On 23/02/2026 13:00, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nh10u$2q1p5$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:02 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <smumpkto5pdlf865spnj7jpmukvokms7n8@4ax.com>, at 21:59:00 on >>>>> Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but that >>>>>> does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used by >>>>>> TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.I think they sell Oysters to tourists.ThereAs also a TfL travel
centre just as you cross from NR to TfL territory, down at the clock >>>>>>>>>> end of StP.
But do they sell train tickets, rather than theatre/attraction tickets?
Last time I was there, the subsurface ticket hall had a vending machine >>>>>>> for those.
Not everyone can use contactless.
Especially a family of four might not have four separate cards
available.
I suppose it might be somewhere to go to get a railcard added to an >>>>>>>> Oyster.
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>>>>>> unlikely that the travel information office could do it.
Can you be a bit more precise about these mystery "other methods"?
In particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, not >>>>> in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it >>>>> to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.
WouldnAt a mobile phone/device with appropriate software and NFC hardware >>>> be able to update the card? I know Oyster isnAt ITSO, but my phone can >>>> update an ITSO card.
It's highly unlikely that there are drivers available for a phone
to write to an Oyster Card, just like a phone can't write to a Credit
Card (but can *read* them). It's not just idleness, but requires
incorporating the security features, which are a fairly closely guarded
secret.
The last thing you want in the wild is a phone app which can add extra
random credit to an Oyster card.
I used to have a phone app which read the biometric details off
rfid-equipped passports[1], but I suspect it's been withdrawn now.
And while I still have apps which will *read* eg an Oyster card, what I
get is pages and pages of HEX, not a user-friendly representation of it. >>>
[1] So when people ask to have a passport photo, for example to put on a >>> railcard or photo-ITSO card, I can literally send them the image I
sucked out from inside my passport.
But I can write to my Scotrail ITSO card. I can buy a ticket on my phone
and transfer it to the card.
Roland is, as ever, full of shit.
It would be entirely possible for a phone to write to the Oyster balance
if TfL wanted to make that an option. In Paris, for example, you can >recharge a physical Navigo card using a mobile phone.
Navigo cards are (since 2014) based on the same ISO14443 technology as >Oyster, ITSO, and EMV payment cards. There are no "closely guarded
secrets" in terms of the security implementation, no "drivers" are
required, TfL would just have to develop the services concerned to
implement the relevant key/certificate management and signing protocols
to enable it...
The reason I suspect they haven't bothered is that when the Oyster
system was being built, mobile phones that spoke NFC weren't really a
thing, and by the time that they were TfL were already moving to the >backoffice-based system and away from smartcards, which makes the whole >topic moot.
In message <5r0npktt0123po5hhr41a5b3ndl96acuih@4ax.com>, at 22:33:00 on
Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 21:00:44 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10nfpcq$2e39o$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:36:42 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:C2C Smart - 0247
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <XaHmR.43$Oe4c.24@fx11.ams1>, at 17:39:03 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
In the railway context, Freedom Passes are Oyster cards. They turn into
ITSO cards when used as bus passes outside London.
Finally, some rail related content.
Huh? YouAre the one you constantly hijacks rail-related threads >>>>>>to tell us
irrelevant, non-rail-related personal stories from yesteryear.
And yet you are the one who complains my more recent occupations are of >>>>> little worth. So that's an invitation to debunk.
But wrong. ITSO and Oyster are quite different (although both RFID) >>>>>>> technologies, and the Freedom Pass is ITSO.
As I said, itAs an Oyster card in London, and an ITSO card on non-London >>>>>> buses.
No it isn't. A card like that can't have two RFID technologies side by >>>>> side [Barclaycard briefly tried to have a dual Oyster/CCC but the fact >>>>> it was guaranteed card-clash as soon as TfL's gates started accepting >>>>> CCC, sunk it]. So the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it >>>>> - it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
FWIW my Scottish bus pass starts with those numbers too.
That's because all UK-issued ITSO cards do!
The next four digits are assigned to an issuer, of which 0115 is common >>>for concessionary bus passes. Although there's some anecdotal evidence >>>yours might be 0273, or perhaps 0130.
I've got a Scotrail non-concessionary card somewhere, and if I find it >>>I'll check what it says.
The Key - 0143
There are a number of variants of the "The Key", 0143 is Southern & GTR;
0140 is a whole bunch of others including Oxford Bus and Southern--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Vectis.
FP - 0226
In message <ypLmR.30$R9g2.19@fx07.ams1>, at 22:27:42 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <XaHmR.43$Oe4c.24@fx11.ams1>, at 17:39:03 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
In the railway context, Freedom Passes are Oyster cards. They turn into >>>>>> ITSO cards when used as bus passes outside London.
Finally, some rail related content.
Huh? YouAre the one you constantly hijacks rail-related threads
to tell us
irrelevant, non-rail-related personal stories from yesteryear.
And yet you are the one who complains my more recent occupations are of
little worth. So that's an invitation to debunk.
But wrong. ITSO and Oyster are quite different (although both RFID) >>>>> technologies, and the Freedom Pass is ITSO.
As I said, itAs an Oyster card in London, and an ITSO card on non-London >>>> buses.
No it isn't. A card like that can't have two RFID technologies side by
side [Barclaycard briefly tried to have a dual Oyster/CCC but the fact
it was guaranteed card-clash as soon as TfL's gates started accepting
CCC, sunk it]. So the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it
- it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
<Sigh> Please stop pretending to be an expert in subjects you clearly know >>little about.
I know rather more than average about the subject, thanks.
As I said, Freedom Passes can act both as Oyster cards and ITSO cards. As >>such, they have both an Oyster card number (10 digits plus 2 digit check >>sum) and an 18 digit ITSO number.
So they work the readers on London buses. ITSO ENCTS cards like yours do >>not.
Hmm, I wonder how railway barriers deal with the inherent card-clash of >being presented with two protocols at once.
Are you sure you aren't getting confused by the 60+ Oyster?
Where on the FP is the Oyster number, because on the front is only the
ITSO number. Perhaps you could post a photo on your Flikr feed (I can't
find a photo of the rear of one anywhere).
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 23/02/2026 17:38, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not >>>>>> needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a >>>>>> zonal
ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination >>>>> to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the >>>> journey is valid on one or both tickets.
-aBy my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal.
-aIt does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is
valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" >>> unless you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
Yes, the requirement is only when the train does not call. There seems
to be a relaxation, in that two seasons can now be combined, but also a
tightening, in that there must now be no overlap.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:16:39 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ypLmR.30$R9g2.19@fx07.ams1>, at 22:27:42 on Sun, 22 FebPrinted (lasered?) inkjet-style on the back at the top with what looks
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <XaHmR.43$Oe4c.24@fx11.ams1>, at 17:39:03 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
In the railway context, Freedom Passes are Oyster cards. They turn into >>>>>>> ITSO cards when used as bus passes outside London.
Finally, some rail related content.
Huh? You-Are the one you constantly hijacks rail-related threads
to tell us
irrelevant, non-rail-related personal stories from yesteryear.
And yet you are the one who complains my more recent occupations are of >>>> little worth. So that's an invitation to debunk.
But wrong. ITSO and Oyster are quite different (although both RFID) >>>>>> technologies, and the Freedom Pass is ITSO.
As I said, it-As an Oyster card in London, and an ITSO card on non-London >>>>> buses.
No it isn't. A card like that can't have two RFID technologies side by >>>> side [Barclaycard briefly tried to have a dual Oyster/CCC but the fact >>>> it was guaranteed card-clash as soon as TfL's gates started accepting
CCC, sunk it]. So the Freedom Pass is an ITSO. Look at the number on it >>>> - it's from the ITSO series, probably starting 633597.
<Sigh> Please stop pretending to be an expert in subjects you clearly know >>> little about.
I know rather more than average about the subject, thanks.
As I said, Freedom Passes can act both as Oyster cards and ITSO cards. As >>> such, they have both an Oyster card number (10 digits plus 2 digit check >>> sum) and an 18 digit ITSO number.
So they work the readers on London buses. ITSO ENCTS cards like yours do >>> not.
Hmm, I wonder how railway barriers deal with the inherent card-clash of
being presented with two protocols at once.
Are you sure you aren't getting confused by the 60+ Oyster?
Where on the FP is the Oyster number, because on the front is only the
ITSO number. Perhaps you could post a photo on your Flikr feed (I can't
find a photo of the rear of one anywhere).
like a two-date issue/checksum suffix.
On 23/02/2026 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23
Feb 2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which >>>>>>stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when >>>>>>a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines >>> around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the
way that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line", but there
are also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and >>Peterborough (and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
There's a range of layouts from the Frome bypass which clearly does not
visit the station through marginal cases like Carnforth main lines
(platorms, but disused and on a different route) to obviously passing
through the station like the fasts at Huntingdon. Rule 14 requires the >passenger to study all of these and guess which ones qualify as a visit.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines >>> around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way that >>> Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
This is consistent with the other GW "Avoiders", which have line names
either Up/Down Avoiding or Up/Down [Location] Avoiding - Weston, Westbury, >Didcot, Gloucester.
but there are
also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and Peterborough
(and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
I don't think that's a particularly unusual feature.
Where is the dividing line between the two, though?
What does Darlington count as? Non-platform through line, or Avoiding Line?
On 23/02/2026 11:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <8lbopk98j7qr45ob8mtfa30cu84lljg1nn@4ax.com>, at 10:54:02
on Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
I tend not to recommend replacement ink to friends or family.I don't know what he's printing (retired and just a hobbyist), but I >>know someone who gets through about u100/month 'genuine' ink.
Despite being a rip-off original ink isn't a signifcant part of most
people's budget
Bought him some cheaper replacements, but he rejected them because
he couldn't work out how to turn off the "Are you sure you want to
use inferior ink which could damage your printer, cause famine, >>pestilence and World War 3" messages for every single time he printed.
HP, I assume. I will never buy from them again.
--My Epson only puts that message up once, right after you've replaced
a cartridge.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 FebLow priority task that has little economic return.
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >>> July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
Cognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it).
You might want to expect that, but the fact that they are being scrutinised >>> suggests one might have to lower onerCOs expectations.
Sam
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >> July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
As to bulk mail, bank, NHS etc, yourCOve no idea if the delays are due to the
non Royal Mail company collecting the mail from the sender, or RM providing >> the final delivery leg.
Anecdotes heard on the radio suggest that the current driver is to get
larger things out of the depot asap so theyrCOre not cluttering up the place.
That in turn suggests a continuing backlog.
John Ray <john@jray.org.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 22:40, Recliner wrote:
So does mine (in SE London) but not always promptly. A letter postmarked
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Warrington, 13 February, with a first class stamp, was delivered on
Tuesday 17th.
I must admit that I now seldom receive mail with actual stamps and
postmarks, so itrCOs hard to tell how long first class mail takes on its >journey.
Unlike you, IrCOm not stupid
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 07:34:53 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <smumpkto5pdlf865spnj7jpmukvokms7n8@4ax.com>, at 21:59:00 on >>Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>No. Any other necessary method that the system allows a correction to
remarked:
It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but that >>>does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used byI think they sell Oysters to tourists.ThererCOs also a TfL travel
centre just as you cross from NR to TfL territory, down at the clock >>>>>>> end of StP.
But do they sell train tickets, rather than theatre/attraction tickets? >>>>>>
Last time I was there, the subsurface ticket hall had a vending machine >>>>for those.
Not everyone can use contactless.
Especially a family of four might not have four separate cards >>>>available.
I suppose it might be somewhere to go to get a railcard added to an >>>>>Oyster.
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>>>unlikely that the travel information office could do it.
TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.
Can you be a bit more precise about these mystery "other methods"?
be made by. Most properly designed systems will allow increasing more
unusual amendments to be made with appropriate increasing authority
required to do so thus avoiding e.g. "computer says you are dead so I
can't do it".
In particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, notIt might have to be stored on the card but I never had to allow the
in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it
to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.
card to be read to obtain a discount.
I expect the primary evidential record is on the central computer
rather than the card and what is on the card is a secondary record for >operational convenience.
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods lines >>>> around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the way that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
In message <10nhnsg$31p50$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:23:12 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 23/02/2026 13:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23
Feb-a 2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 >>>>>> Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which >>>>>>> stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when >>>>>>> a-a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods
lines
around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the
way-a that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
-aI'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line", but there
are-a also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and
Peterborough-a (and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
There's a range of layouts from the Frome bypass which clearly does not
visit the station through marginal cases like Carnforth main lines
(platorms, but disused and on a different route) to obviously passing
through the station like the fasts at Huntingdon.-a Rule 14 requires the
passenger to study all of these and guess which ones qualify as a visit.
The Frome "bypass" is a straight line (geographically) from which the original rails to Frome Station diverge a mile north and south of the (single track) station.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
Jeez, you get someone who by the nature of their job is likely to know
what the proper name used by the Railway themselves for the tracks and you >still want to be different as if you know better and they shouldnrCOt be >describing them as such.
Another example of your conceitedness.
On 22/02/2026 16:21, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 16:13:13 +0000I was thinking more of an open source alternative.
Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
On 22/02/2026 11:41, Recliner wrote:
Before getting my current Brother WiFi printer I had a long-serving, but >>>> little used, previous Brother laser printer. Though old, it never went >>>> wrong or had any problems till, one day, it was no longer recognised
by the
PC. It seems that MSFT had made some incompatible change to Windows
10 that
killed the printer driver. I couldnrCOt find any replacement or updated >>>> driver, so had to replace the printer, even though there was nothing
wrong
with it.
An alternative would have been to replace the operating system, which
has plenty wrong with it.
Not with Windows 11 though, thats even worse. Somehow MS seem to have
fucked
up fundamental parts of the OS such as window repainting when unobscured.
In message <10nf7ac$27bjj$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:12 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 11:13:23 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nem0n$16a56$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:55 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>Why would I have seen one? I'm in my 50s , a long way from retirement >>>>unless
start playing the lottery and win.
You have no friends with one. You can't do a Google search for a
picture of one...
Why would I have pensioners as friends?
Why not? They are older and wiser than you, could be helpful.
Google-fu escaped your again? It's a five year cycle. But the whole >>>point of ITSO cards (of which Freedom cards are but one example) is
they have a chip, not a barcode.
Fine, scan the chip. Whats the problem Clouseau?
I already answered that.
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 10:24:25 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>unlikely that the travel information office could do it.It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but that
does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used by
TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not
needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal >>>>> ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination
to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the
journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal. >>
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid
and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless >> you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them
are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
In message <10nhpig$32phl$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:52:00 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nfpqn$2e83q$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:44:07 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
He's a blogger and they are anonymous bloggers.
Amazing rCo you don't actually know what a blogger is!
You may have some personal definition, but that's what's the >>>>>>>>>odd man out
is here.
He clearly is not, by accepted definitions of the term. ThatrCOs >>>>>>>> another word
to add to the Rolandspeak translation dictionary.
I've added it to my list of things you don't understand.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/blogger
Participants in forums are not bloggers,
Regular contributors (and in this case we are talking about a fairly >>>>> prolific moderator) are.
Errm, no. A blogger is someone who writes a blog, a weblog, a log, on the >>>> web, of their thoughts, actions, writings etc, curated by and for
themselves. ThatrCOs not what the person referred to above is doing.
Just like some people claim the term "doughnutting" now subsumes
"dumbelling", the meaning drifts over time.
As a form of self-publishing, the repeated posting of messages to a
specific forum/platform is just as much 'blogging' as the original
meaning which was having your own personal website to which only you
can post (and quite likely no-one can comment).
So when recliner regales us with his trips via first class lounges to
exotic holiday destinations, I'd call that "blogging" too. Not in a bad
way, it's just a description of the activity, for which I don't think
there's an alternative name. He does it on Flickr too.
The biggest blogging platform these days is probably YouTube, where
so-called "influencers" make a living uploading videos of their
exploits. (Some call it "vlogging"). Next is Facebook/Instagram,
although harder to monetise.
The 'long tail' includes many specialist forums, and even Usenet groups.
Thank you, Humpty.
<https://www.britannica.com/quotes/Lewis-Carroll>
Indeed, and please channel that back to the anonymous blogger who
claims "doughnutting" is the name for what was previously known as >"dumbelling".
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 FebLow priority task that has little economic return.
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that
page could be massive.
In message <Hv1nR.50$2FGd.48@fx13.ams1>, at 19:03:03 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
John Ray <john@jray.org.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 22:40, Recliner wrote:
So does mine (in SE London) but not always promptly. A letter postmarked >>> Warrington, 13 February, with a first class stamp, was delivered on
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Tuesday 17th.
I must admit that I now seldom receive mail with actual stamps and >>postmarks, so itrCOs hard to tell how long first class mail takes on its >>journey.
I sent such a letter yesterday (the only one this year so far). It was a >form I'd downloaded, printed, and filled in, and the people insisted I
snail mail it to them, rather than scan and email.
I did email them to say I'd posted it, so if they are interested they
could correlate that with its eventual arrival.
Meanwhile, BBC did a straw poll in December, with various of their >presenters sending one another Xmas Cards, and logging when posted and
when received. The surprise wasn't how many were "late", but the number >which were allegedly never received at all.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not >>>>>> needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal >>>>>> ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination >>>>> to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the >>>> journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal. >>>
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid >>> and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless >>> you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them
are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:52:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Hv1nR.50$2FGd.48@fx13.ams1>, at 19:03:03 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
John Ray <john@jray.org.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 22:40, Recliner wrote:
So does mine (in SE London) but not always promptly. A letter postmarked >>> Warrington, 13 February, with a first class stamp, was delivered on
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Tuesday 17th.
I must admit that I now seldom receive mail with actual stamps and >>postmarks, so itrCOs hard to tell how long first class mail takes on its >>journey.
I sent such a letter yesterday (the only one this year so far). It was a >form I'd downloaded, printed, and filled in, and the people insisted I >snail mail it to them, rather than scan and email.
I did email them to say I'd posted it, so if they are interested they >could correlate that with its eventual arrival.
Meanwhile, BBC did a straw poll in December, with various of their >presenters sending one another Xmas Cards, and logging when posted and >when received. The surprise wasn't how many were "late", but the number >which were allegedly never received at all.
Yes, that's pretty bad, but I assume those were sent second class?
Am 24.02.2026 um 15:00 schrieb Recliner:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: >>>>>>> Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not >>>>>>> needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal
ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your >>>>>>> journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current >>>>>> Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another >>>>>> Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination >>>>>> to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the >>>>> journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal.
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid >>>> and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless >>>> you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them >>> are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >>> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
I would speculate that there is *no* positive purpose but rather only >careless wording.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:52:14 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Hv1nR.50$2FGd.48@fx13.ams1>, at 19:03:03 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
John Ray <john@jray.org.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 22:40, Recliner wrote:
So does mine (in SE London) but not always promptly. A letter postmarked >> >>> Warrington, 13 February, with a first class stamp, was delivered on
My mail continues to arrive every day.
Tuesday 17th.
I must admit that I now seldom receive mail with actual stamps and
postmarks, so itrCOs hard to tell how long first class mail takes on its >> >>journey.
I sent such a letter yesterday (the only one this year so far). It was a >> >form I'd downloaded, printed, and filled in, and the people insisted I
snail mail it to them, rather than scan and email.
I did email them to say I'd posted it, so if they are interested they
could correlate that with its eventual arrival.
Meanwhile, BBC did a straw poll in December, with various of their
presenters sending one another Xmas Cards, and logging when posted and
when received. The surprise wasn't how many were "late", but the number
which were allegedly never received at all.
Yes, that's pretty bad, but I assume those were sent second class?
Does second class include throwaway service?
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them
are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 >>>>>> Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which >>>>>>> stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when >>>>>>> a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods
lines
around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the
way that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
This is consistent with the other GW "Avoiders", which have line names
either Up/Down Avoiding or Up/Down [Location] Avoiding - Weston,
Westbury,
Didcot, Gloucester.
but there are
also non-platform through lines at places like Hitchin and Peterborough
(and famously a couple of months ago, Huntingdon).
I don't think that's a particularly unusual feature.
Indeed, quite common on that stretch of ECML.
Where is the dividing line between the two, though?
iirc there are several stations on the Woking Line which have completely disused, but still present, platforms on the "through" tracks.
In message <10ni319$36ebt$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:33:29 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
You might want to expect that, but the fact that they are being scrutinisedCognitive dissonance strikes again.
It's not unusual for web pages to give out of date information.
One expects better from an organisation like Royal Mail, especially
given the current close scrutiny of their performance (or lack of it). >>>>
suggests one might have to lower onerCOs expectations.
Sam
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in >>> July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service-so-it-delivers-what-people-need
As to bulk mail, bank, NHS etc, yourCOve no idea if the delays are due to the
non Royal Mail company collecting the mail from the sender, or RM providing >>> the final delivery leg.
Anecdotes heard on the radio suggest that the current driver is to get
larger things out of the depot asap so theyrCOre not cluttering up the place.
That in turn suggests a continuing backlog.
No, it's because they are in a war with other carriers to win business
from ecommerce vendors, especially those promising "Tracked 48" or
similar services. If it's tracked, then everyone can see if it's late.
Very few letters are sent as tracked (what used to be called "Recorded Delivery").
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 17:07:40 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nf7ac$27bjj$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:12 on Sun, 22 Feb >>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 11:13:23 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nem0n$16a56$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:55 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>>Why would I have seen one? I'm in my 50s , a long way from >>>>>retirement unless
start playing the lottery and win.
You have no friends with one. You can't do a Google search for a >>>>picture of one...
Why would I have pensioners as friends?
Why not? They are older and wiser than you, could be helpful.
I think you misunderstand how and why people become friends.
Google-fu escaped your again? It's a five year cycle. But the whole >>>>point of ITSO cards (of which Freedom cards are but one example) is >>>>they have a chip, not a barcode.
Fine, scan the chip. Whats the problem Clouseau?
I already answered that.
Not in any useful fashion.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:17:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo.
Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
Your current American mentor is, sadly, still alive.
In message <5ptopklrs4pb4nhgh0g92ucoanot3f855k@4ax.com>, at 15:50:19 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:17:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo.
Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
Your current American mentor is, sadly, still alive.
I'll let her know. She's also terminally ill with cancer and will
doubtless enjoy reading about your good wishes. NOT.
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
Where is the dividing line between [non-platform line and avoiding line], though?
What does Darlington count as? Non-platform through line, or Avoiding Line? >>
The former I think.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not >>>>>> needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal >>>>>> ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your
journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current
Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another
Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination >>>>> to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the >>>> journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal. >>>
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid >>> and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless >>> you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them
are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
On 24/02/2026 14:00, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them >>> are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >>> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
Speculating, why would you buy (e.g) a Frome to London return rather than
a Westbury to London return and a Westbury to Frome single ? If the Frome off peak return is -u64 rather than -u77 from Westbury, then you should be restricted to trains which call at Frome, rather than the potentially expensive ones which don't.
In message <g0hppk5t2a78kcs52grqnuogoq2alrh555@4ax.com>, at 21:26:52 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 07:34:53 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <smumpkto5pdlf865spnj7jpmukvokms7n8@4ax.com>, at 21:59:00 on >>>Sun, 22 Feb 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>No. Any other necessary method that the system allows a correction to
remarked:
It requires a ticket machine for the routine method of update but that >>>>does not preclude other methods more or less matching those used by >>>>TfL's office staff to amend/correct Oyster account records.I think they sell Oysters to tourists.ThereAs also a TfL travel
centre just as you cross from NR to TfL territory, down at the clock >>>>>>>> end of StP.
But do they sell train tickets, rather than theatre/attraction tickets? >>>>>>>
Last time I was there, the subsurface ticket hall had a vending machine >>>>>for those.
Not everyone can use contactless.
Especially a family of four might not have four separate cards >>>>>available.
I suppose it might be somewhere to go to get a railcard added to an >>>>>>Oyster.
Which requires a ticket machine to do the update to the Oyster card, so >>>>>unlikely that the travel information office could do it.
Can you be a bit more precise about these mystery "other methods"?
be made by. Most properly designed systems will allow increasing more >>unusual amendments to be made with appropriate increasing authority >>required to do so thus avoiding e.g. "computer says you are dead so I
can't do it".
OK, so you are just guessing. That such a system exists, and that the
Travel Centre at St Pancras might have authority to access it.
^ RailIn particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, notIt might have to be stored on the card but I never had to allow the
in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it >>>to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.
card to be read to obtain a discount.
How do you achieve travel (let alone discounted travel) using an Oyster, >*without* the card being read by a barrier/validator?
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2I expect the primary evidential record is on the central computer
rather than the card and what is on the card is a secondary record for >>operational convenience.
No, Oyster is a system where value and credentials are stored *on* the
card. It was introduced long before gatelines were connected to the back >office in real time.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
The people who built it call it an avoiding line, the people who control
and maintain it call it an avoiding line, the people who use it call it an >avoiding line, and the people who tell other people what to call it, call
it an avoiding line, but you decline. Got it.
Where is the dividing line between [non-platform line and avoiding >>>line], though?
[irrelevance snipped]
What does Darlington count as? Non-platform through line, or Avoiding Line? >>>
The former I think.
So where's the dividing line, I wonder?
Is it 'distance travelled not on the main line', is it 'distance separating >the station and the main line', is it presence of other railway >infrastructure between the two, is it presence of non-railway
infrastructure between the two?
Does second class include throwaway service?
No, junk (Door to Door) advertising is a different category.
Meanwhile, BBC did a straw poll in December, with various of their >>presenters sending one another Xmas Cards, and logging when posted and
when received. The surprise wasn't how many were "late", but the number >>which were allegedly never received at all.
Yes, that's pretty bad, but I assume those were sent second class?
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhifv$305e6$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:51:11 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10nfgjn$29re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:47 on Sun, 22 >>>>>> Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
Though the point about how passengers are supposed to know which >>>>>>> stations
the train passes through is valid - as is the question as to when >>>>>>> a train
is going "through" a station rather than avoiding it.
Westbury is a particular example, as is perhaps Didcot and York. But >>>>>> there are only a handful of them.
Reading used to be before the rebuild
Reading had a couple of non-platform through lines, and some goods
lines
around the back of the platform, but not an "avoiding line" in the
way that
Westbury, Frome, Weston and Didcot do.
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 19:08:35 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/02/2026 16:20, Certes wrote:
On 22/02/2026 08:37, Mike Humphrey wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2026 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: >>>>>>> Ooh, interesting edge case: we know there's a rule about trains not >>>>>>> needing to call at the point where split tickets meet, if one is a zonal
ticket. But can that happen only once in a journey? Or could your >>>>>>> journey above have A-B and C-D on zonal tickets, and a B-C non-zonal >>>>>>> ticket, and travel on a non-stop A-D train?
This rule seems to have been considerably simplified in the current >>>>>> Conditions of Travel:
14.1 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction
with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and
conditions when buying such Tickets.
14.2 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of
two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train
services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from
one Ticket to another.
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season
Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as
a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another >>>>>> Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the
first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then
the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination >>>>>> to be valid.
14.3 has unintended(?) consequences such as making it technically
illegal to combine tickets which overlap, even though every part of the >>>>> journey is valid on one or both tickets.
By my reading 14.3 just removes a restriction, not make anything illegal. >>>>
It does not require that "the last station at which one Ticket is valid >>>> and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same" unless >>>> you want to make use of the "call at that station" exemption.
It seems to mean that if you're using the 'does not call' rule for
splitting tickets, those tickets must abut, not overlap. If both of them >>> are valid for any part of the journey, then you can't use them for the 'not >>> to call' rule.
That's a restriction I wasn't previously aware of.
I wonder what the purpose of it is, assuming we're interpreting it correctly?
I suspect sloppy writing by someone who didn't consider the possibility of overlapping tickets?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ni8ji$38i5e$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:08:34 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I'm not sure I'd call the Frome bypass an "avoiding line",
The line names are the "Up Frome Avoiding" and "Down Frome Avoiding".
Yes, they are, but irrespective of what the mappers call it, *I*
wouldn't call it an avoiding line. It's more of a short-cut.
The people who built it call it an avoiding line, the people who control
and maintain it call it an avoiding line, the people who use it call it an avoiding line, and the people who tell other people what to call it, call
it an avoiding line, but you decline. Got it.
Where is the dividing line between [non-platform line and avoiding line], though?
[irrelevance snipped]
What does Darlington count as? Non-platform through line, or Avoiding Line? >>>
The former I think.
So where's the dividing line, I wonder?
Is it 'distance travelled not on the main line', is it 'distance separating the station and the main line', is it presence of other railway infrastructure between the two, is it presence of non-railway
infrastructure between the two?
^ RailIn particular, the railcard discount has to be stored on the card, not >>>>in a backoffice database. Which is why you need to physically present it >>>>to someone, who then uses a ticket machine to do the update.It might have to be stored on the card but I never had to allow the
card to be read to obtain a discount.
How do you achieve travel (let alone discounted travel) using an Oyster, >>*without* the card being read by a barrier/validator?How do you read a card devoid of a chip or magnetic stripe ?
There are two cards involved.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5ptopklrs4pb4nhgh0g92ucoanot3f855k@4ax.com>, at 15:50:19 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:17:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo.
Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
Your current American mentor is, sadly, still alive.
I'll let her know. She's also terminally ill with cancer and will
doubtless enjoy reading about your good wishes. NOT.
He, not she
In message <PQpnR.58$Oe4c.5@fx11.ams1>, at 22:43:59 on Tue, 24 Feb 2026, >Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5ptopklrs4pb4nhgh0g92ucoanot3f855k@4ax.com>, at 15:50:19 on
Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:17:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo.
Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
Your current American mentor is, sadly, still alive.
I'll let her know. She's also terminally ill with cancer and will
doubtless enjoy reading about your good wishes. NOT.
He, not she
No, definitely a "she", one of my late wife's college room-mates.
In message <10nk216$3qktn$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:28:38 on Tue, 24 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 17:07:40 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nf7ac$27bjj$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:12 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 11:13:23 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nem0n$16a56$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:55 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>>>Why would I have seen one? I'm in my 50s , a long way from >>>>>>retirement unless
start playing the lottery and win.
You have no friends with one. You can't do a Google search for a >>>>>picture of one...
Why would I have pensioners as friends?
Why not? They are older and wiser than you, could be helpful.
I think you misunderstand how and why people become friends.
You misunderstand why people who aren't Boltar, have friends.
Fine, scan the chip. Whats the problem Clouseau?
I already answered that.
Not in any useful fashion.
Only due to your lack of ability to comprehend.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 19:11:51 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nk216$3qktn$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:28:38 on Tue, 24 Feb >>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 17:07:40 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nf7ac$27bjj$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:12 on Sun, 22
Feb 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 11:13:23 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nem0n$16a56$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:32:55 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>>>>Why would I have seen one? I'm in my 50s , a long way from >>>>>>>retirement unless
start playing the lottery and win.
You have no friends with one. You can't do a Google search for a >>>>>>picture of one...
Why would I have pensioners as friends?
Why not? They are older and wiser than you, could be helpful.
I think you misunderstand how and why people become friends.
You misunderstand why people who aren't Boltar, have friends.
Ie why you have friends. Presumably you make friends depending on how
useful they might be to you rather than just contempories you got on
with socially at uni and in work.
Fine, scan the chip. Whats the problem Clouseau?
I already answered that.
Not in any useful fashion.
Only due to your lack of ability to comprehend.
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
Ie why you have friends. Presumably you make friends depending on how >>useful they might be to you rather than just contempories you got on
with socially at uni and in work.
Only sociopaths would operate on that basis, and people like myself also >make friends with those they can help, or simply enjoy the company of.
They often get introduced via the concept known in Facebook land (but
also works in bricks and mortar) as "friends of friends".
The oldest I've added recently is 92, I think.
BTW, you missed "hobbies, sports, and leisure interests" off the list.
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner.
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner.
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary
Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to
scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold
Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:45:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:Low priority task that has little economic return.
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>> so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that
page could be massive.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier
trying to cut costs as the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr
Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much sleep over whines from
politicians as that happens.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:45:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb >2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 Feb >>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:Low priority task that has little economic return.
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that >page could be massive.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier
trying to cut costs as the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much sleep over whines from
politicians as that happens.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
Ie why you have friends. Presumably you make friends depending on how >>>useful they might be to you rather than just contempories you got on >>>with socially at uni and in work.
Only sociopaths would operate on that basis, and people like myself
also make friends with those they can help, or simply enjoy the
company of. They often get introduced via the concept known in
Facebook land (but also works in bricks and mortar) as "friends of friends".
I've never been on facebook and I don't plan on changing that situation.
The oldest I've added recently is 92, I think.
BTW, you missed "hobbies, sports, and leisure interests" off the list.
Kind of a given.
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid
scanner.
Well tough shit in that case.
I would recommend buying paper tickets however.
National Rail Enquiries were quoting me a 175 quid return on GWR peak
time this week so I did a turn up and go and got the same ticket for
120 from paddington booking office.
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an
outboundary Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which >>would need to scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct
from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as
Harold Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner.
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary
Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to
scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold
Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from >Shenfield to Reading.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to >Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2026 07:33:27 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <PQpnR.58$Oe4c.5@fx11.ams1>, at 22:43:59 on Tue, 24 Feb 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <5ptopklrs4pb4nhgh0g92ucoanot3f855k@4ax.com>, at 15:50:19 on >>>> Mon, 23 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:17:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <gmHmR.28$R9g2.21@fx07.ams1>, at 17:51:08 on Sun, 22 Feb >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
I'm once again getting a bit fed up with your lies and innuendo. >>>>>>>Simple fact checking.
The problem is you are very bad at it.
YourCOre allergic to it, just like your American mentor.
My American mentor passed away two years ago.
Your current American mentor is, sadly, still alive.
I'll let her know. She's also terminally ill with cancer and will
doubtless enjoy reading about your good wishes. NOT.
He, not she
No, definitely a "she", one of my late wife's college room-mates.
I'm referring to the POTUS, who seems to be your role model.
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner. >>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary
Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from >> Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to
Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity
of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop, >>>> on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner. >>>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from >>> Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to
Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity
of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <crtepk5ed8748mav0rubtnglhlme6kbus3@4ax.com>, at 20:51:18 on
Thu, 19 Feb 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 16:11:55 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <10n7bqh$r8gi$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:01 on Thu, 19 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 11:27:54 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10n6n7k$q9h9$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:04:36 on Thu, 19 Feb >>>>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
I understand perfectly, you simply don't understand what I'm proposing. >>>>>>> ie: Any phone tickets MUST be validated at their start station
before travel,
not any other way, else they will NOT be valid to exit at the destination.
Its quite simple.
Do tell us how that happens at a station like Shippea Hill.
Umm, let me think , err , they could install a validator? I assume the place
has electricity and a phone signal?
For one train a week? Yes, it probably has electricity, but I wouldn't >>>> bet on it having a mobile phone signal.
The mobile signal is fine. It's flat for miles around, there's nothing to >>> get in the way of a sightline to the nearest mast.
If you've done a site survey, then you've discovered an anomaly. There
are constant complaints from the public about bad coverage in the
vicinity.
All now solvable with a Starlink (other brands shortly to be available) installation.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:45:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:Low priority task that has little economic return.
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>>> so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that
page could be massive.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier
trying to cut costs as the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much sleep over whines from
politicians as that happens.
Should read K+Oet|!nsk|+.
In message <KPhoR.112$li2.34@fx17.ams1>, at 14:25:46 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine.
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop, >>>>> on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner. >>>>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>>>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>>>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from >>>> Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to
Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity
of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
It has been since November 2016.
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
But it's one of several possible combination of tickets to get from
Gatwick to London.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <KPhoR.112$li2.34@fx17.ams1>, at 14:25:46 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop, >>>>>> on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner. >>>>>>
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine. >>>>>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>>>>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>>>>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from
Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to >>>>> Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity >>>> of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
It has been since November 2016.
Yes, it appears so. I thought it was only for CC cards.
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
But it's one of several possible combination of tickets to get from
Gatwick to London.
No, Oyster+FP isnrCOt a valid combination if you donrCOt want to touch out and >in at ECR.
On 2026-02-27 5:27 a.m., Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:45:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 >>>>>> FebLow priority task that has little economic return.
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations >>>>>>> changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>>>> so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that >>>> page could be massive.
What political fallout?-a It's long been apparent that letter post is
an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier
trying to cut costs as the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr
Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much sleep over whines from
politicians as that happens.
Should read K+Oet|!nsk|+.
You make an acutely grave mistake.-a Righting in hinglish don't need eccents.
On 2026-02-27 5:27 a.m., Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:45:59 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>
In message <10ni64h$37kc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:25 on Mon, 23 Feb >>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nhvqn$357bm$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:38:47 on Mon, 23 Feb >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:Low priority task that has little economic return.
That Royal Mail web page is outdated. Their delivery obligations changed in
July last year.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/post/royal-mail/reforming-the-postal-service- >>>>>> so-it-delivers-what-people-need
So what's wrong with their webmaster who can't keep up.
The political fallout from failing to spend half an hour updating that >>> page could be massive.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier
trying to cut costs as the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much sleep over whines from
politicians as that happens.
Should read K+Oet|!nsk|+.
You make an acutely grave mistake. Righting in hinglish don't need
eccents.
In message <DosoR.15$b91.11@fx13.ams1>, at 02:27:47 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <KPhoR.112$li2.34@fx17.ams1>, at 14:25:46 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026, >>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop, >>>>>>> on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid scanner.
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine. >>>>>>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>>>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to
scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold
Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all the way from
Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to >>>>>> Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity >>>>> of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
It has been since November 2016.
Yes, it appears so. I thought it was only for CC cards.
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
But it's one of several possible combination of tickets to get from
Gatwick to London.
No, Oyster+FP isnrCOt a valid combination if you donrCOt want to touch out and
in at ECR.
So you are saying it doesn't qualify under the s14.3 rule? On what
basis, other than they don't currently have a way to flip your journey
from one ticket to the other while you stay on the train (and ways to
fix that are the topic of this subthread).
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <DosoR.15$b91.11@fx13.ams1>, at 02:27:47 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <KPhoR.112$li2.34@fx17.ams1>, at 14:25:46 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026, >>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>>>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop, >>>>>>>> on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid >>>>>>>>scanner.
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine. >>>>>>>>
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary
Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which >>>>>>>>would need to
scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far >>>>>>>>as Harold
Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all >>>>>>>the way from
Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to >>>>>>> Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity >>>>>> of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go
out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
It has been since November 2016.
Yes, it appears so. I thought it was only for CC cards.
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
But it's one of several possible combination of tickets to get from
Gatwick to London.
No, Oyster+FP isnrCOt a valid combination if you donrCOt want to
touch out and
in at ECR.
So you are saying it doesn't qualify under the s14.3 rule? On what
basis, other than they don't currently have a way to flip your journey
from one ticket to the other while you stay on the train (and ways to
fix that are the topic of this subthread).
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >thatrCOs not possible with FPs.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an
industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely.
It allows
you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal
letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an
industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret0nsk2 will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows
you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a >building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds.
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal >letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
In message <10nug4q$39779$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:30:50 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an
industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows
you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when
they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also
allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a
building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds.
And to channel things coming to a bit of a head in USA, postal voting
forms.
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal
letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Amazon delivers small items in envelopes no bigger than many birthday
cards. And for free, if you have Prime. All it needs is for them to
arrange a way for the public to post things, something Royal Mail has
been ding for a while now (order postage online, and the next day it's picked up from your doorstep; they even bring a label).
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nug4q$39779$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:30:50 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an >>>> industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as >>>> the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret0nsk2 will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows >>> you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >>> they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >>> allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a
building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds.
And to channel things coming to a bit of a head in USA, postal voting
forms.
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal
letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Amazon delivers small items in envelopes no bigger than many birthday
cards. And for free, if you have Prime. All it needs is for them to
arrange a way for the public to post things, something Royal Mail has
been ding for a while now (order postage online, and the next day it's
picked up from your doorstep; they even bring a label).
I doubt Amazon want the public entering single quantity items into their >network.
In message <10nujav$3agab$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:19 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nug4q$39779$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:30:50 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:And to channel things coming to a bit of a head in USA, postal voting
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an >>>>> industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as >>>>> the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much >>>>> sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows >>>> you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >>>> they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >>>> allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a
building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. >>>
forms.
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal >>>> letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Amazon delivers small items in envelopes no bigger than many birthday
cards. And for free, if you have Prime. All it needs is for them to
arrange a way for the public to post things, something Royal Mail has
been ding for a while now (order postage online, and the next day it's
picked up from your doorstep; they even bring a label).
I doubt Amazon want the public entering single quantity items into their
network.
Why not, they allow marketplace vendors to do exactly that.
All Amazon needs to do is have a bin their vans which collects all the
items picked up from the public on the round, and deliver it back to the distribution centre for sorting and onward delivery.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nujav$3agab$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:19 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nug4q$39779$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:30:50 on Sat, 28 Feb >>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:And to channel things coming to a bit of a head in USA, postal voting
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an >>>>>> industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as >>>>>> the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much >>>>>> sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows >>>>> you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >>>>> they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >>>>> allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a >>>>> building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. >>>>
forms.
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal >>>>> letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Amazon delivers small items in envelopes no bigger than many birthday
cards. And for free, if you have Prime. All it needs is for them to
arrange a way for the public to post things, something Royal Mail has
been ding for a while now (order postage online, and the next day it's >>>> picked up from your doorstep; they even bring a label).
I doubt Amazon want the public entering single quantity items into their >>> network.
Why not, they allow marketplace vendors to do exactly that.
All Amazon needs to do is have a bin their vans which collects all the
items picked up from the public on the round, and deliver it back to the
distribution centre for sorting and onward delivery.
Market place vendors that use AmazonrCOs delivery network ship in bulk to the >warehouse.
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <DosoR.15$b91.11@fx13.ams1>, at 02:27:47 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <KPhoR.112$li2.34@fx17.ams1>, at 14:25:46 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <hjfoR.10$_71.8@fx14.ams1>, at 11:34:37 on Fri, 27 Feb 2026, >>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
Who said "ticket machine", you postulated "before you pay". My laptop,
Please tell us why a chip couldn't be scanned by a ticket machine. >>>>>>>>>
on which I buy the majority of my tickets, doesn't have an rfid >>>>>>>>>scanner.
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary
Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which >>>>>>>>>would need to
scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far >>>>>>>>>as Harold
Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Unlike Oyster, the FP is valid on the whole EL, including all >>>>>>>>the way from
Shenfield to Reading.
Makes sense, although various sources don't mention this.
If you have a FP and need an extension outside its boundaries (eg, to >>>>>>>> Gatwick), you canrCOt use Oyster.
My use-case was tacking on an Oyster leg from somewhere in the vicinity >>>>>>> of Croydon, to Gatwick. Without having to leave the train and go >>>>>>> out-and-in the barrier.
Not possible, as Oyster isnrCOt valid at Gatwick,
It has been since November 2016.
Yes, it appears so. I thought it was only for CC cards.
and Oyster isnrCOt a vehicle for storing rail tickets.
But it's one of several possible combination of tickets to get from
Gatwick to London.
No, Oyster+FP isnrCOt a valid combination if you donrCOt want to >>>>touch out and
in at ECR.
So you are saying it doesn't qualify under the s14.3 rule? On what
basis, other than they don't currently have a way to flip your journey
from one ticket to the other while you stay on the train (and ways to
fix that are the topic of this subthread).
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>thatrCOs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
In message <10nuo1a$3bv9q$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:45:30 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nujav$3agab$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:19 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10nug4q$39779$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:30:50 on Sat, 28 Feb >>>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:And to channel things coming to a bit of a head in USA, postal voting >>>>> forms.
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an >>>>>>> industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as >>>>>>> the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret|!nsk|+ will lose much >>>>>>> sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows >>>>>> you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >>>>>> they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also
allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a >>>>>> building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. >>>>>
Of course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal >>>>>> letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Amazon delivers small items in envelopes no bigger than many birthday >>>>> cards. And for free, if you have Prime. All it needs is for them to
arrange a way for the public to post things, something Royal Mail has >>>>> been ding for a while now (order postage online, and the next day it's >>>>> picked up from your doorstep; they even bring a label).
I doubt Amazon want the public entering single quantity items into their >>>> network.
Why not, they allow marketplace vendors to do exactly that.
All Amazon needs to do is have a bin their vans which collects all the
items picked up from the public on the round, and deliver it back to the >>> distribution centre for sorting and onward delivery.
Market place vendors that use AmazonrCOs delivery network ship in bulk to the
warehouse.
From where they are picked, packed and labelled, then sent off one at a
time to be delivered. The Amazon scheme I described short-cuts those
first three steps.
In message <10nrv6v$2fbmm$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:29:35 on Fri, 27 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>Ie why you have friends. Presumably you make friends depending on how >>>>useful they might be to you rather than just contempories you got on >>>>with socially at uni and in work.I've never been on facebook and I don't plan on changing that situation.
Only sociopaths would operate on that basis, and people like myself
also make friends with those they can help, or simply enjoy the
company of. They often get introduced via the concept known in
Facebook land (but also works in bricks and mortar) as "friends of friends". >>
That's your significant loss, but do you really not nevertheless know
about their concept of "Friends of freineds"?
BTW, you missed "hobbies, sports, and leisure interests" off the list.
Kind of a given.
Which you failed to mention, when questioned.
Well tough shit in that case.
Of course, always the Boltar escape clause.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
But what's your solution, the one you suggested earlier being >comprehensively debunked.
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>thatrCOs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Luckily, thereAs no need to solve it, as the FP availability is more than >Oyster.
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>thatAs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster
terms and conditions >https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which >specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So
the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage
to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other
tickets.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 11:39:22 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:That depends which train you are on. A Freedom Pass runs out at Harold
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet.
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Luckily, thererCOs no need to solve it, as the FP availability is more than >>Oyster.
Wood if you aren't on a TfL service.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 14:10:20 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nrv6v$2fbmm$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:29:35 on Fri, 27 Feb >>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10npr7j$1pb52$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:09:23 on Thu, 26 Feb >>>>>Ie why you have friends. Presumably you make friends depending on >>>>>how useful they might be to you rather than just contempories you >>>>>got on with socially at uni and in work.
Only sociopaths would operate on that basis, and people like myself >>>>also make friends with those they can help, or simply enjoy the >>>>company of. They often get introduced via the concept known in >>>>Facebook land (but also works in bricks and mortar) as "friends of friends".
I've never been on facebook and I don't plan on changing that situation.
That's your significant loss, but do you really not nevertheless know >>about their concept of "Friends of freineds"?
What about them? AFAIK none of my friends of friends are pensioners either. >Generations tend to stick together because they went to school and uni >together and were similar ages when in certain positions at work.
BTW, you missed "hobbies, sports, and leisure interests" off the list.
Kind of a given.
Which you failed to mention, when questioned.
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people
make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people of >similar ages.
Well tough shit in that case.
Of course, always the Boltar escape clause.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a good >deal that should be enough.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
But what's your solution, the one you suggested earlier being >>comprehensively debunked.
Debunked where? I've yet to see any valid argument why it couldn't work >except for maybe some oldies passes. Hard luck.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an
industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret0nsk2 will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows
you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a >building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. Of >course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal
letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
Mike--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
In message <a197qk1pepsuagplsqlm9hstmm5m4jk7hd@4ax.com>, at 02:35:09 on
Sun, 1 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 11:39:22 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:That depends which train you are on. A Freedom Pass runs out at Harold
On Fri, 27 Feb 2026 08:00:07 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
And of course, if the two tickets being concatenated are an outboundary >>>>> Oyster leg, and a Freedom Pass, it's the Oyster card which would need to >>>>> scan the FP, in order to work out how much to deduct from its wallet. >>>>>
Example: I think I'm right in saying a FP is only valid as far as Harold >>>>> Wood, but you can use Oyster all the way to Shenfield.
Hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Luckily, thererCOs no need to solve it, as the FP availability is more than >>>Oyster.
Wood if you aren't on a TfL service.
That would explain why different sites give a different answer to the >question about the eastern limit of validity.
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 18:41:14 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey ><mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:You don't need to tap in and out with a Freedom Pass except when a
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>>thatrCOs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster >>terms and conditions >>https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >>services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which >>specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So >>the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage >>to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other >>tickets.
gate has to be opened. I travel out to Grays and buy the Essex ticket
online once I am on the train as there are two possible routes.
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people >>make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people of >>similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a good >>deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
Debunked where? I've yet to see any valid argument why it couldn't work >>except for maybe some oldies passes. Hard luck.
You've still not explained how I can scan an rfid on my laptop (and
that's just one of the more obvious holes in your argument).
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 07:58:21 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people
make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people of
similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
If I was talking about water I wouldn't feel the need to mention that its wet.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a good
deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
If you want inclusion means test pensioners so the rich ones with a 10 million
quid pile in esher don't get a freedom pass but it goes to someone on minimum
wage or unemployed instead.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 07:58:21 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people >>>> make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people >of
similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
If I was talking about water I wouldn't feel the need to mention that its >wet.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a >good
deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
If you want inclusion means test pensioners so the rich ones with a 10 >million
quid pile in esher don't get a freedom pass but it goes to someone on >minimum
wage or unemployed instead.
ThererCOs no risk of that rCo nobody living in Esher gets a Freedom Pass.
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 16:05:01 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 07:58:21 +0000million
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb >>>> 2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people >>>>> make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people >> of
similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
If I was talking about water I wouldn't feel the need to mention that its >> wet.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a >> good
deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
If you want inclusion means test pensioners so the rich ones with a 10
quid pile in esher don't get a freedom pass but it goes to someone onminimum
wage or unemployed instead.
ThererCOs no risk of that rCo nobody living in Esher gets a Freedom Pass.
Somehow I'm sure they'd cope! :)
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 07:58:21 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb >>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people >>>make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people of >>>similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
If I was talking about water I wouldn't feel the need to mention that its wet.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a good >>>deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
If you want inclusion means test pensioners so the rich ones with a 10 million >quid pile in esher don't get a freedom pass but it goes to someone on minimum >wage or unemployed instead.
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 02:46:32 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 18:41:14 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey >><mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:You don't need to tap in and out with a Freedom Pass except when a
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>>>thatAs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster >>>terms and conditions >>>https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >>>services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which >>>specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So >>>the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage >>>to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other >>>tickets.
gate has to be opened. I travel out to Grays and buy the Essex ticket >>online once I am on the train as there are two possible routes.
The comment about tapping in and out related to Oyster cards, not Freedom Passes.
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:30:50 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey ><mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 14:06:20 +0000, Recliner wrote:The Danes have done just that, haven't they? Killed the letter post?
What political fallout? It's long been apparent that letter post is an
industry in terminal decline, with the supplier trying to cut costs as
the revenues fade away. I don't suppose Mr Kret0nsk2 will lose much
sleep over whines from politicians as that happens.
It's difficult to see the letter post disappearing completely. It allows >>you to send a message to someone you've not interacted with before, when >>they're not expecting the message and may not want to receive it. It also >>allows you to send to "The occupier" when you don't know who is at a >>building. Court summonses, tax demands, legal notices of various kinds. Of >>course without the cross-subsidy from routine business and personal >>letters, it's likely to get a lot more expensive.
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 15:47:37 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 07:58:21 +0000You get it by being a resident and implicitly directly or indirectly a >council tax payer; if you have a 10M pile then you will have been
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> gabbled:
In message <10nv1sq$1v1pf$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:33:46 on Sat, 28 Feb >>>2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
It seems to come as some kind of profound revelation to you that people >>>>make friends in social situations. Also sports teams tend to be of people of
similar ages.
It was *you* who left that off the list.
If I was talking about water I wouldn't feel the need to mention that its wet.
No system can cover all eventualities but as long as the majority get a good
deal that should be enough.
Social inclusion not one of your things, clearly.
If you want inclusion means test pensioners so the rich ones with a 10 million
quid pile in esher don't get a freedom pass but it goes to someone on minimum
wage or unemployed instead.
paying more. Others might argue that the poor and unemployed should
not get a FP because they haven't been paying full council tax.
Mucking about with the scheme on the basis that the odd person has too
much money would probably be a variation on spending a fiver to save a
pound.
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 12:17:50 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 02:46:32 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Which are one of multiple types of Oyster Card as you can find marked
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 18:41:14 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey >>><mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:You don't need to tap in and out with a Freedom Pass except when a
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>>>>thatrCOs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster >>>>terms and conditions >>>>https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >>>>services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which >>>>specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So >>>>the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage >>>>to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other >>>>tickets.
gate has to be opened. I travel out to Grays and buy the Essex ticket >>>online once I am on the train as there are two possible routes.
The comment about tapping in and out related to Oyster cards, not Freedom Passes.
on the back of them.
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 17:13:28 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 12:17:50 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 02:46:32 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Which are one of multiple types of Oyster Card as you can find marked
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 18:41:14 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey >>>><mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:You don't need to tap in and out with a Freedom Pass except when a
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026, >>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>>>>>thatAs not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster >>>>>terms and conditions >>>>>https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >>>>>services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which >>>>>specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So >>>>>the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage >>>>>to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other >>>>>tickets.
gate has to be opened. I travel out to Grays and buy the Essex ticket >>>>online once I am on the train as there are two possible routes.
The comment about tapping in and out related to Oyster cards, not Freedom Passes.
on the back of them.
It's not the sort of Oyster card that can be used to pay for single fares, so that's irrelevant.
On Mon, 02 Mar 2026 15:14:10 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 17:13:28 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:How does it work with an Oyster Card that has both PAYG and a season
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 12:17:50 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Mar 2026 02:46:32 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Which are one of multiple types of Oyster Card as you can find marked
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 18:41:14 -0000 (UTC), Mike Humphrey
<mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2026 10:12:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:You don't need to tap in and out with a Freedom Pass except when a
In message <F%yoR.32$h61.20@fx09.ams1>, at 09:59:01 on Sat, 28 Feb 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
You can combine Oyster journeys with travelcards on the same card, but >>>>>>>> that-As not possible with FPs.
Which bit of s14.3 prohibits that?
Nothing in that section. But you still need to comply with the Oyster >>>>>> terms and conditions
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail- >>>>>> services.pdf
Note section 3.14, which requires that you tap in and out, and 3.18 which
specifically requires you to tap out before leaving the Oyster area. So >>>>>> the train doesn't explicitly have to stop, as long as you somehow manage
to tap out from a moving train.
3.19 and 3.20 make exceptions for Oyster travelcards, but no other >>>>>> tickets.
gate has to be opened. I travel out to Grays and buy the Essex ticket >>>>> online once I am on the train as there are two possible routes.
The comment about tapping in and out related to Oyster cards, not Freedom Passes.
on the back of them.
It's not the sort of Oyster card that can be used to pay for single
fares, so that's irrelevant.
ticket ?
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