• Very Happy Christmas

    From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Wed Dec 24 17:05:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Thu Dec 25 00:46:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 24/12/2025 05:05 pm, Martin Harran wrote:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)

    Thank you. And those wishes are reciprocated to all who post (and those
    who only read) here.

    A very Merry Christmas.

    And a better 2026 for us all (I hope).

    JN

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Thu Dec 25 09:26:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 05:05 pm, Martin Harran wrote:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)

    Thank you. And those wishes are reciprocated to all who post (and those
    who only read) here.

    A very Merry Christmas.

    And a better 2026 for us all (I hope).

    JN

    WHS!
    --
    Spike
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.net.news.moderation on Thu Dec 25 10:00:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 25/12/2025 09:26, Spike wrote:
    JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 05:05 pm, Martin Harran wrote:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)

    Thank you. And those wishes are reciprocated to all who post (and those
    who only read) here.

    A very Merry Christmas.

    And a better 2026 for us all (I hope).

    JN

    WHS!

    TGJones? ;-)
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Thu Dec 25 11:25:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 25/12/2025 09:26, Spike wrote:
    JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 05:05 pm, Martin Harran wrote:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I >>>> have sparred over the last year :)

    Thank you. And those wishes are reciprocated to all who post (and those
    who only read) here.

    A very Merry Christmas.

    And a better 2026 for us all (I hope).

    JN

    WHS!

    TGJones? ;-)

    LOL!
    --
    Spike
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Thu Dec 25 18:36:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 25/12/2025 11:25 am, Spike wrote:
    Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 25/12/2025 09:26, Spike wrote:
    JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 05:05 pm, Martin Harran wrote:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I >>>>> have sparred over the last year :)

    Thank you. And those wishes are reciprocated to all who post (and those >>>> who only read) here.

    A very Merry Christmas.

    And a better 2026 for us all (I hope).

    JN

    WHS!

    TGJones? ;-)

    LOL!

    LOL! x 2!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Todal@the_todal@icloud.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Fri Dec 26 12:53:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 24/12/2025 17:05, Martin Harran wrote:
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)


    And best wishes to you too, Martin. Let there be peace.

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about
    the events during Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief
    informal truce, between Germans, French and Scottish troops, exchanging
    gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at each other, just for a day
    or two.

    It may have gone down in history as a rather heartwarming moment, but
    the various military commanders on all sides were absolutely furious and determined to inflict punishment.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Fri Dec 26 13:29:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about
    the events during Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief informal truce, between Germans, French and Scottish troops, exchanging gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at each other, just for a day
    or two.

    It may have gone down in history as a rather heartwarming moment, but
    the various military commanders on all sides were absolutely furious and determined to inflict punishment.

    The incident is mentioned in Norman DixonrCOs book On The Psychology Of Military Incompetence, which IIRC described the Generals approach as being determined to crush rCOrCathese reprehensible flickerings of humanityrCO.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to one and all.
    --
    Spike
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jon Ribbens@jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu to uk.net.news.moderation on Fri Dec 26 14:20:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 2025-12-26, The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 17:05, Martin Harran wrote:
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)

    And best wishes to you too, Martin. Let there be peace.

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about
    the events during Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief informal truce, between Germans, French and Scottish troops, exchanging gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at each other, just for a day
    or two.

    It may have gone down in history as a rather heartwarming moment, but
    the various military commanders on all sides were absolutely furious and determined to inflict punishment.

    I imagine they were less "furious" and more "terrified" that the
    soldiers might realise that they had options other than shooting
    at each other.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Goodge@usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk to uk.net.news.moderation on Fri Dec 26 16:57:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2025 14:20:14 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:

    On 2025-12-26, The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 17:05, Martin Harran wrote:
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)

    And best wishes to you too, Martin. Let there be peace.

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about
    the events during Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief
    informal truce, between Germans, French and Scottish troops, exchanging
    gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at each other, just for a day
    or two.

    It may have gone down in history as a rather heartwarming moment, but
    the various military commanders on all sides were absolutely furious and
    determined to inflict punishment.

    I imagine they were less "furious" and more "terrified" that the
    soldiers might realise that they had options other than shooting
    at each other.

    I'm not entirely sure it was either of those, to be honest. Both sides initially underestimated what they were getting themselves into at the
    outbreak of war, expecting that it would be a relatively limited skirmish
    and "all over by Christmas". Obviously it wasn't all over by Christmas, but even then, there was still a sense that it would all be over soon and both sides would find a way to agree peace terms.

    The number of casualties in the first few months of the war was relatively
    low, with both sides essentially sparring for position and full-on battles being less common. And both sides on the Western Front, in particular, were struggling with supply lines and shortage of munitions, while the key battlegrounds had ground to a stalemate. Temporary truces and a certain
    amount of fraternisation were common in the first few months of the Western Front campaign, even before Christmas.

    It's also worth bearing in mind that even then, there was still a certain amount of sense that Britain and Germany were natural allies who were merely divided temporarily by politics. France was still perceived as the natural enemy of both sides, dating back to the Napoleonic wars when Britain and Prussia were part of the coalition which defeated him. So there wasn't any
    real hatred between the sides.

    So a 1914 Christmas truce made logical as well as emotional sense, it was an opportunity for both sides to restock, exchange prisoners and simply have a break to get their own casualties out.

    But then, as it dragged on, positions hardened on both sides, and by the
    time the next Christmas came round the idea of fraternising with the enemy
    had gone out of the window. In particular, the first use of chorine gas by
    the German army came in 1915, and this was a gamechanger in terms of perceptions on the Britishside.

    So the fact that the widespread 1914 Christmas truces were not generally repeated in subsequent years wasn't really anything to do with top-down presure. Even in 1914, there was no official truce, it was solely the
    decisions of on-the-ground commanders on both sides to permit it. But a year later, there was little appetite for a truce among the troops themselves. By the time Christmas 1915 came round, there was a sense that the Germans were
    no longer playing by the rules, and couldn't be trusted even for a temporary unofficial ceasefire.

    Mark
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Pamela@pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Dec 27 13:57:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 17:05 24 Dec 2025, Martin Harran said:

    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom
    I have sparred over the last year :)


    Happy Christmas to you too and to everyone else.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Dec 27 20:08:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote in message news:mr7epfFqk49U1@mid.individual.net...
    On 24/12/2025 17:05, Martin Harran wrote:
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)


    And best wishes to you too, Martin. Let there be peace.

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about the events during
    Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief informal truce, between Germans,
    French and Scottish troops, exchanging gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at
    each other, just for a day or two.


    By Christmas 1914, the laying of trenches all the way from the Swiss Border
    to the North Sea was complete. And before the advent of aerial reconnaissance or the deployment of heavy artillery, with some of the trenches being only
    tens of feet apart.

    Such that the two sides could already exchange greetings and messages and
    come to informal arrangements about temporary cease fires and stand downs. While at that stage of the war, given the apparent stale mate, which would actually last for another 4 years, there were still some hopes of some kind
    of political solution.

    Whereas after Christmas 1914, there were more mates being blown to bits in front
    of peoples' eyes, more scope for "misunderstandings" about stand downs, and
    the trenches were probably also moving farther apart as well,


    bb



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Dec 27 20:17:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote in message news:l67okk5529uuo5bk9630vcgrlp7e40vs9h@4ax.com...
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I
    have sparred over the last year :)


    Indeed. Happy New Year Martin, and everyone.



    bb


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Todal@the_todal@icloud.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Dec 27 20:45:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 26/12/2025 16:57, Mark Goodge wrote:
    On Fri, 26 Dec 2025 14:20:14 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:

    On 2025-12-26, The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
    On 24/12/2025 17:05, Martin Harran wrote:
    ... and best wishes for 2026 to all here, especially those with whom I >>>> have sparred over the last year :)

    And best wishes to you too, Martin. Let there be peace.

    My family film for Christmas day was Joyeux Noel, a superb film about
    the events during Christmas Eve 1914 when the combatants held a brief
    informal truce, between Germans, French and Scottish troops, exchanging
    gifts, playing football. Refusing to shoot at each other, just for a day >>> or two.

    It may have gone down in history as a rather heartwarming moment, but
    the various military commanders on all sides were absolutely furious and >>> determined to inflict punishment.

    I imagine they were less "furious" and more "terrified" that the
    soldiers might realise that they had options other than shooting
    at each other.

    I'm not entirely sure it was either of those, to be honest. Both sides initially underestimated what they were getting themselves into at the outbreak of war, expecting that it would be a relatively limited skirmish
    and "all over by Christmas". Obviously it wasn't all over by Christmas, but even then, there was still a sense that it would all be over soon and both sides would find a way to agree peace terms.

    The number of casualties in the first few months of the war was relatively low, with both sides essentially sparring for position and full-on battles being less common. And both sides on the Western Front, in particular, were struggling with supply lines and shortage of munitions, while the key battlegrounds had ground to a stalemate. Temporary truces and a certain amount of fraternisation were common in the first few months of the Western Front campaign, even before Christmas.

    It's also worth bearing in mind that even then, there was still a certain amount of sense that Britain and Germany were natural allies who were merely divided temporarily by politics. France was still perceived as the natural enemy of both sides, dating back to the Napoleonic wars when Britain and Prussia were part of the coalition which defeated him. So there wasn't any real hatred between the sides.

    So a 1914 Christmas truce made logical as well as emotional sense, it was an opportunity for both sides to restock, exchange prisoners and simply have a break to get their own casualties out.

    But then, as it dragged on, positions hardened on both sides, and by the
    time the next Christmas came round the idea of fraternising with the enemy had gone out of the window. In particular, the first use of chorine gas by the German army came in 1915, and this was a gamechanger in terms of perceptions on the Britishside.

    So the fact that the widespread 1914 Christmas truces were not generally repeated in subsequent years wasn't really anything to do with top-down presure. Even in 1914, there was no official truce, it was solely the decisions of on-the-ground commanders on both sides to permit it. But a year later, there was little appetite for a truce among the troops themselves. By the time Christmas 1915 came round, there was a sense that the Germans were no longer playing by the rules, and couldn't be trusted even for a temporary unofficial ceasefire.

    I'm not entirely sure that you have fully explained why the troops held impromptu truces, without permission from senior commanders, putting themselves at risk of being tried for treason or insubordination.

    The soldiers were able, at times, to see their opponents as fellow professionals, very similar to themselves in terms of age, courage,
    fear, hope, and various coping skills. So if they could trust their
    opponents to hold out a hand of friendship it made sense to reciprocate.

    But it was never condoned by their senior commanders. It was imperative
    as far as their commanders and politicians and propaganda merchants were concerned, for the public and the nation's own soldiers to see the enemy
    as evil, capable of outrageous inhumanity, part of an enterprise to
    destroy one's own country and enslave one's countrymen. Kill them all,
    men, women and children, to finish the job and ensure it won't have to
    be done again in the future. Incidentally, in the current slaughter in
    Gaza we sometimes hear Israeli politicians speak in favour of merciless annihilation, on the basis that all civilians of all ages are equally deserving of death. It is considered brave to suppress one's humanity to
    get the job done.

    This clash of attitudes is explored rather well in the film that I
    mentioned.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2