Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the
dials/display so they cannot be seen.
If they can't be seen, how would it be possible to challenge a bill
thought to be too high?
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
TTman wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:I suspect what triggered Jeff's question was my post elsewhere, where
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to havetheir dials visible so that they can be read?
Don't know of any situation where a 'smart meter' can't be read
manually...until the gas meter battery dies, of course.
the transmitter module on top of mine obscures the dials ...
<http://andyburns.uk/misc/smart-water-meter.jpg>
If I had to guess, the black dials read 00011 and the first of the (irrelevant) red dials is a 5, but why should I have to guess? Anyway
11 m^3 seems rather low for approx 10 months of usage.
On 19/02/2026 23:12, TTman wrote:
On 19/02/2026 22:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be
possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
The only remote readers for water meters I have seen mimic the display somewhere on the outside of the property. Our VH has this problem if
there is no-one there when the water meter reader comes. The thing is discretely hidden on the Grade II listed building and hard to spot. The
guy reading it is different every time. It is a purely visual display.
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?Don't know of any situation where a 'smart meter' can't be read
manually...until the gas meter battery dies, of course.
Mine could be read manually in principle but you would need a long
stepladder to do it. Installed just below the ceiling 16' up.
The VH electricity 3-phase meter requires an extraordinary number of
button presses to get it to show actual consumption figures. The "smart"
part of the meter doesn't work at all because we live in the north.
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
Roland Perry wrote:
I once had a water meter which was at least two foot down a hole, and
the hole was permanently half-full of rainwater. The dial was
impossible to read manually (unless you pumped the water out, found a
way to clean the mud off the dial, and then used some form of
magnifying device to see the numbers).
While my parents' property was empty I had to read the water meter a
couple of times, like yours it was always under water, pouring a bucket
of clean water down the hole flushed the mud out and a phone camera
could be zoomed enough to read it.
On 19/02/2026 22:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be
possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Section 3 of The Water (Meters) Regulations 1988 [^1] states:
<quote>
Installation of meters
3.rCo(1) Meters shall be so installed as to ensure that they are
reasonably accessible for reading, inspection, testing and maintenance. </quote>
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
It is covered in the relevant Codes of Practice which is the Meter Asset Management Code of Practice (MAMCop) for gas and the Meter Operation
Code of Practice Agreement (MOCoPA) for electricity.
These go further than any legislation concerning accessibility of meters.
Gas and electric smart meters in particular must be easily accessible
owing to their ability to be transmogrified (from the perspective of the
home owner) into PAYG / prepayment meters at the flick of a switch
(making it necessary to be able check remaining credit and manually top
up the meter).
[^1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/1048/body/made--
On 19/02/2026 22:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be
possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Section 3 of The Water (Meters) Regulations 1988 [^1] states:
<quote>
Installation of meters
3.rCo(1) Meters shall be so installed as to ensure that they are
reasonably accessible for reading, inspection, testing and maintenance. </quote>
I doubt that my electricity meter complies with the code (but then itDoes the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
It is covered in the relevant Codes of Practice which is the Meter Asset Management Code of Practice (MAMCop) for gas and the Meter Operation
Code of Practice Agreement (MOCoPA) for electricity.
These go further than any legislation concerning accessibility of meters.
Unfortunately in Victorian buildings the mains water pipe tends to
enter in the now disused cellar and from there goes up behind fitted
kitchen cupboards. There often isn't anywhere easy to fit the thing
that isn't either very inaccessible or unsightly.
In extremis they have to dig up the street
and put a meter in a hole.
In message <10nhd75$2thpi$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:21:09 on Mon, 23 Feb
2026, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
Unfortunately in Victorian buildings the mains water pipe tends to
enter in the now disused cellar and from there goes up behind fitted
kitchen cupboards. There often isn't anywhere easy to fit the thing
that isn't either very inaccessible or unsightly.
In extremis they have to dig up the street
pavement
and put a meter in a hole.
That's where the meter is for my 1930's built house, and all the others
in the street.
On 21/02/2026 15:33, Simon Parker wrote:
On 19/02/2026 22:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it be
possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Section 3 of The Water (Meters) Regulations 1988 [^1] states:
<quote>
Installation of meters
3.rCo(1) Meters shall be so installed as to ensure that they are
reasonably accessible for reading, inspection, testing and maintenance.
</quote>
Thanks. Not sure why my original internet search didn't pick that up.
I'm a little surprised that Regulation isn't mentioned at all in the
Water Industry Act 1991.
I guess the only comment I would make, clutching somewhat at legal
straws, is that "reading" isn't defined. So as long as it can be read by someone, perhaps even including outreading apparatus which can only be
read by a water company, it meets the requirement even if the customer
can't read it.
Does the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
It is covered in the relevant Codes of Practice which is the Meter Asset
Management Code of Practice (MAMCop) for gas and the Meter Operation
Code of Practice Agreement (MOCoPA) for electricity.
These go further than any legislation concerning accessibility of meters.
Gas and electric smart meters in particular must be easily accessible
owing to their ability to be transmogrified (from the perspective of the
home owner) into PAYG / prepayment meters at the flick of a switch
(making it necessary to be able check remaining credit and manually top
up the meter).
I did find a document for water meters, but it isn't clear if it has
been applied: <https://mosl.co.uk/document/groups-and-committees/retailer-wholesaler- group/rwg-guidance-1/3292-meter-reading-standards-market-guidance/file>.
The fourth bullet point in 3.2 Retailer Responsibility makes reference
to "work with...their customer where encountering blockers to obtaining
read data (e.g. access refusal, ID requirements, & H&S restrictions). Perhaps that should include readings blocked by apparatus added for outreading.
[^1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/1048/body/made
On 21/02/2026 15:33, Simon Parker wrote:
On 19/02/2026 22:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
Is there any legislation which states that water meters have to have
their dials visible so that they can be read?
Some of the remote reading radio devices are fitted over the dials/
display so they cannot be seen. If they can't be seen, how would it
be possible to challenge a bill thought to be too high?
Section 3 of The Water (Meters) Regulations 1988 [^1] states:
<quote>
Installation of meters
3.rCo(1) Meters shall be so installed as to ensure that they are
reasonably accessible for reading, inspection, testing and maintenance.
</quote>
Unfortunately in Victorian buildings the mains water pipe tends to enter
in the now disused cellar and from there goes up behind fitted kitchen cupboards. There often isn't anywhere easy to fit the thing that isn't either very inaccessible or unsightly.
In extremis they have to dig up the street and put a meter in a hole. It
has happened a lot in my village recently since the price of water went through the roof. Really cheeky as well since Northumberland water has reservoirs sized to handle the now defunct Middlesbrough steel furnaces. Domestic water consumption barely makes a dent in their reserves.
They were not going to put a remote reader on the one in our village
hall until I pointed out that their employee was going to take about
half an hour every time getting in and out of the cellar. It involves opening a complex trap door and decent of a vertical steel ladder.
I doubt that my electricity meter complies with the code (but then itDoes the same sort of thing apply to electricity and gas meters too?
It is covered in the relevant Codes of Practice which is the Meter
Asset Management Code of Practice (MAMCop) for gas and the Meter
Operation Code of Practice Agreement (MOCoPA) for electricity.
These go further than any legislation concerning accessibility of meters.
never did). Only readable from a stepladder as it is 15' up in the air
in a dark corner of the hallway. Smartphone on a stick could read the
old dial based one but the new one now requires button presses as well.
Around here, they've installed the majority of meters in the footway
outside the property which seems to meet all the requirements.
However, there seems to be a number of workers going around the villages adding smart remote readers to the original meters making them
completely unreadable by humans as the hole in the footway is just wide enough for the meter and the smart remote reader fits on top of the
meter completely obscuring the dials for reading, which seems to be the problem you're encountering.
As it happens, I was returning home recently, (since the start of this thread so the topic was on my mind), and saw a friend's meter being "upgraded" so stopped and had a chat with the worker.-a He was a
contractor in a plain white van and knew nothing of the regulations mentioned in this thread.-a He informed me that part of the installation process involved taking a picture of the completed installation so the
water company are clearly aware of what's being done.
Simon Parker wrote:
Around here, they've installed the majority of meters in the footway
outside the property which seems to meet all the requirements.
However, there seems to be a number of workers going around the
villages adding smart remote readers to the original meters making
them completely unreadable by humans as the hole in the footway is
just wide enough for the meter and the smart remote reader fits on top
of the meter completely obscuring the dials for reading, which seems
to be the problem you're encountering.
That's exactly what started my original thread (elsewhere) and spawned
this one in turn.
Someone suggested the "smart lump" hinged upwards to reveal the dials
below, but not on my specific model, however it can spin around, and
that allowed me to angle the phone to snap the dials ... no guarantee
that would be the case for all meters, it only worked for me because it wasn't centred in the tube.
As it happens, I was returning home recently, (since the start of this
thread so the topic was on my mind), and saw a friend's meter being
"upgraded" so stopped and had a chat with the worker.-a He was a
contractor in a plain white van and knew nothing of the regulations
mentioned in this thread.-a He informed me that part of the
installation process involved taking a picture of the completed
installation so the water company are clearly aware of what's being done.
The contractors in my area appear to have omitted that step, as STwater
deny the existence of the meter (fitted 9 months ago).
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 59 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 19:30:44 |
| Calls: | 810 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 1,287 |
| D/L today: |
10 files (21,017K bytes) |
| Messages: | 194,291 |
