From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more academic?

I see that Lancaster Royal Grammar School (founded in 1472) is still
going strong.
--
John Ray

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From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more academic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more academic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

For another perspective, see this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a place
at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker at Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she arrived.
But it was her working class background rather than her age that made
her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin. The men tied jumpers around their necks
and the women did not get glammed up for a night out, unlike Jade in her
high heels and fake lashes. They mimicked her scouse accent (she grew
up in Merseyside, the daughter of a carer and factory worker). They
questioned what school she went to and laughed when she brought a bag of grated cheddar to a party, to contribute to the cheeseboard.

"I felt really alone at times and I nearly left. The classism surprised
me, I didn't expect people to make all these assumptions about me," she
says.

Unaware she was actually eligible for a grant until her final year, she
was forced to find part-time work as a cleaner and for a punting
company, despite the university rule that students should not work so
that they could focus on their studies.

"I was cleaning toilets. I was cleaning buildings owned by the
university and I knew I wasn't meant to be doing it so I kept it quiet,
though a few of my friends knew," she says.

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From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 08:46:47 +0000, The Todal wrote:

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more
-a-aacademic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

For another perspective, see this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a place
at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker at Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and
education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she arrived.
But it was her working class background rather than her age that made
her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin.

Simply lies. As for the anecdote about her sister not being able to attend
a formal dinner because she wasn't dressed formally, it is laughable.

I will admit that there are institutions where people who are obviously working class are sometimes made to feel out of place; this was certainly
true of some Oxbridge colleges in the 1970s. But the ridiculous
exaggeration and paranoia in this article doesn't ring true, especially
for only ten years ago. Sounds more like self-publicity to me.



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From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 2026-02-22, Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 08:46:47 +0000, The Todal wrote:

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer >>>>> backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more
-a-aacademic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

For another perspective, see this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the
University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a place
at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker at
Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and
education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she arrived.
But it was her working class background rather than her age that made
her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin.

Simply lies.

She didn't claim people spoke Latin throughout the dinner. I wouldn't
be at all surprised if there were a few words of Latin spoken, maybe
at the beginning and end of the dinners, etc. This may well have made
her feel out of place if she assumed (wrongly) that everyone else
understood Latin.

As for the anecdote about her sister not being able to attend a formal
dinner because she wasn't dressed formally, it is laughable.

Why is it laughable? Oxbridge formal dinners do have dress codes.

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 22 Feb 2026 at 16:23:06 GMT, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2026-02-22, Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 08:46:47 +0000, The Todal wrote:

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

Have they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer >>>>>> backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

Those from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more
academic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one >>>> could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

For another perspective, see this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the
University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a place >>> at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker at
Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and
education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she arrived.
But it was her working class background rather than her age that made
her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin.

Simply lies.

All of it? None of it looks that far fetched.

She didn't claim people spoke Latin throughout the dinner. I wouldn't
be at all surprised if there were a few words of Latin spoken, maybe
at the beginning and end of the dinners, etc. This may well have made
her feel out of place if she assumed (wrongly) that everyone else
understood Latin.

As for the anecdote about her sister not being able to attend a formal
dinner because she wasn't dressed formally, it is laughable.

Why is it laughable? Oxbridge formal dinners do have dress codes.

Doesn't surprise me. I wasn't allowed to attend my mid-ranking grammar
school's reunion dinner because I wouldn't wear/don't have a tuxedo.

And I've been to plenty of university events where I've had to wear a gown. Supplied by my employer I hasten to add. Didn't make me feel any less of a dick.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from hunting shooting and fishing backgrounds are more academic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

I'll accept that they are more likely to spend 72 weeks at Oxford or Cambridge, and come back two years later to get their MA for free, but do
they end up there as fellows ?


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From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 16:51:45 -0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On 22 Feb 2026 at 16:23:06 GMT, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2026-02-22, Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 08:46:47 +0000, The Todal wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the
University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a
place at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker
at Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and
education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she
arrived. But it was her working class background rather than her age
that made her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin.

Simply lies.

All of it? None of it looks that far fetched.

The bit about dinners being conducted in Latin is obvious lies.

She didn't claim people spoke Latin throughout the dinner.

Yes she did.

I wouldn't
be at all surprised if there were a few words of Latin spoken, maybe at
the beginning and end of the dinners, etc.

Nor would I, but that's not what "dinners were conducted in Latin" means.

This may well have made her
feel out of place if she assumed (wrongly) that everyone else
understood Latin.

As for the anecdote about her sister not being able to attend a formal
dinner because she wasn't dressed formally, it is laughable.

Why is it laughable? Oxbridge formal dinners do have dress codes.

It is laughable to pretend to be offended at not being allowed into a
formal dinner when you aren't wearing formal dress. I can't imagine how
these things are not utterly obvious.



--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 22/02/2026 05:58 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer
backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from hunting shooting and fishing backgrounds are more academic? >>

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one
could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

-aI'll accept that they are more likely to spend 72 weeks at Oxford or Cambridge, and come back two years later to get their MA for free, but
do they end up there as fellows ?

Not unless they hold a teaching, research or professorial post there.

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

On 22/02/2026 16:23, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2026-02-22, Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 08:46:47 +0000, The Todal wrote:

On 20/02/2026 23:33, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/02/2026 20:36, Nick Finnigan wrote:

On 15/02/2026 11:07, Fredxx wrote:

Would you also advocate the reintroduction of Grammar Schools?

-a-aHave they all closed?

It has been

said that social mobility was at its greatest when those from poorer >>>>>> backgrounds mingled with the more academic at such schools.

-a-aThose from huning shooting and fishing backgrounds are more
-a-aacademic?

Given they are more likely to end up at either Oxford or Cambridge one >>>> could argue the answer is a resounding "YES".

YMMV

For another perspective, see this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn71mvz8ne5o

Jade Franks was working in a call centre when she was accepted to the
University of Cambridge. She felt like her life was back on track.

Growing up, she was ambitious and academic. She had been offered a place >>> at drama school but was unable to afford the fees. Sick of her
nine-to-five job, she found the email address for an outreach worker at
Cambridge, who helped her get on a degree course in theatre and
education.

Franks was a few years older than her fellow students when she arrived.
But it was her working class background rather than her age that made
her feel like an outsider.

Dinners were conducted in Latin.

Simply lies.

She didn't claim people spoke Latin throughout the dinner. I wouldn't
be at all surprised if there were a few words of Latin spoken, maybe
at the beginning and end of the dinners, etc. This may well have made
her feel out of place if she assumed (wrongly) that everyone else
understood Latin.

At my Oxford college there was a Latin grace spoken by one of the
scholars, before everyone started eating.

The text was:

Miserere nostri te quaesumus, Domine, tuisque donis, quae de tua
benignitate sumus percepturi, benedicito per Christum Dominum nostrum.
Amen. (there was also a lot more, on more formal dinner occasions).

I concede that having one traditional Latin grace is not the same as
"dinners were conducted in Latin" and I wonder if the reporter got the
wrong end of the stick when interviewing Jade. Back in the day, we sat
down in Hall and were waited on. I think nowadays there is a
self-service system, load up your plate and then walk to your seat.

There would undoubtedly be cliques in an Oxford college, the wealthy
people, or the old school tie people, the dope smokers, the ambitious
social climbers, the students who got involved in politics.

Unfortunately there would be insecure students who felt a strong sense
of imposter syndrome and felt excluded from groups that they wanted to
be part of.

As for the anecdote about her sister not being able to attend a formal
dinner because she wasn't dressed formally, it is laughable.

Why is it laughable? Oxbridge formal dinners do have dress codes.

And it is probably easy to go into a social gathering not knowing or understanding the rules. "Black tie or lounge suit" on an invitation
does not simply mean put on a black tie with your leisure wear.
Sometimes there seems to be nobody to ask.

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